Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

MJInnocent

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AG5050;4248756 said:
For arguments sake say that were true (it’s obviously not). Why would Michael and his lawyers risk that. One slip up or ‘truth’ being told and it would be game over and prison for Michael.
Why force WR to testify when he was an actual victim when they could have just gone with McCauley as lead witness for example.

It's in the doc apparently,I haven't seen it but of course,if it's in Reeds shit show what do you expect?

I replied that they had to come up with something as an excuse to why he has always defended MJ......that's his(preposterous)lie and he's sticking by it.
 

englishhooligan

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Dan Reed's tweets on twitter just show how out of his depth he is. Love how almost every post of his has responses from MJ fans, and they aren't the "crazy, extreme fans" he depicts in his documentary, they're people who keep providing facts and evidence pro-Michael. Reed just posted from the WikiLeaks thing. Guy has an intense hatred for Michael it is crazy.
 

DDam

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So I watched the Oprah interview with them. Sorry Wade, I just don't believe that someone in their 20s can still believe that they both (Michael AND Wade) would go to jail if he testified against Michael in 2005. This is what Wade said on Oprah for the reason he didn't come out with this then, when he was on the stand. I don't care how many times MJ supposedly told him when he was a kid that they'd both go to jail if caught. Nobody in their 20s believes they are going to go to jail for this. For being a victim of abuse. Even if he supposedly thought this was a 'loving relationship', you telling me you don't know this is abuse when you're in your 20s? A 35+ year old man (duno how old he was exactly) doing these things to a 7-14 yr old. Nope, in your 20s you know. This is during a child molestation trial. Where a child is accusing the same person. Helloooo.
If he couldn't bring himself to testify against him, he didn't have to testify in his defence either, he didn't have to be involved. James didn't.

Oprah asked Wade if he had any thought for Gavin at the time and he said he didn't have any awareness of that, didn't think of anyone else, his mind didn't even go there or something...

He was also asked if he thought he deserved money from the estate. He said that it wasn't a thought of his. Uhm is that why in the court docs it lists all these career opportunities you've supposedly lost out on due to this breakdown supposedly due to coming to terms with the abuse, and the money you've therefore lost out on.
 
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CaptainEoLove85

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Meant to share this earlier, but Craig Baxter did an analysis of Wade's body language during the Q&A they did at Sundance. It would be great if he analyzed them in LN too:

Following on from my previous analysis on Wade Robson ( https://www.facebook.com/cjbaxx/pho...51981207&notif_t=page_post_reaction&ref=notif ) I’ve watched this Q and A and I have my real doubts of the validly of their statements.

When Wade is passed the microphone, he repeatedly sends out a strong signal of discomfort with the prolonged temple rub. These types of dissipating behaviours are often prevalent when we feel the need to displace our discomfort via a comforting ‘touch’ display. I must stress that this action isn’t an ironclad indicator of deceit (research from Vrij/Ekman tells us that observing perceived deceit via body language is fraught with dangers and pitfalls) – think of this action as a gesture of discomfort.

Wade gives us an insight into mindset when he reveals that … “ that was the goal, deciding to TRY the case route, was just looking for a platform to be able to tell the truth” – ask yourself this, if you really had been abused for 6 years, would you just ‘try’ the case route to seek justice? Or would you tirelessly fight tooth and nail to put your accuser behind bars? Again, there seems to be a massive disparity/distance between what he’s alleged happened to him and the words/behaviour he reveals. Remember “ I’ll try “ = ' I’ll give it a go, but I’m not really sure of the outcome.' < Could you imagine being this blasé about being ‘abused’ by someone for 6 years? Absolutely not.

With this in mind, Wade’s repeated behaviour in this segment is the temple rub (as seen in the TMZ video) – again this is a gesture of doubt and discomfort. Not the actions of a man with confidence or conviction in his words.

I’ve been a big activist for Michael for many years and I’m horrified and deeply upset to see his name wrongfully dragged through the mud once again. Michael was a brilliant man and a tireless humanitarian for children’s rights – these types of salacious ‘documentaries’ are a disgrace and I genuinely feel for Michael’s family while these ‘allegations’ are put forward via mass media.

Let me reiterate this; James, Wade – I do not believe Michael Jackson abused you.

Kind regards,
CJB
Understanding Body Language. Liars, Cheats and Happy Feet [!]
Author of Behind The Mask: What Michael Jackson’s Body Language Told The World - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009LAMGDY

Credit: TheOtherScottM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVQUCWJlJ_w

https://www.facebook.com/cjbaxx/photos/a.183266598371940/2400295536669024/?type=3&theater
 

RedMaryFlint

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Blondie;4248747 said:
So who would have been reviewing the evidence and deciding it wasn't enough? Just wondering why there's a police doc out there that said the description matched. Unless it's fake. I'd have thought Sneddon would have barged through with that, I figured it was him in control of this file in the first place.
Under the American legal system, you can be criminally charged in either of two ways: you can be indicted by a grand jury, or the prosecutor can directly file charges.

in 1993, a grand jury was convened to review the evidence. Jordan Chandler declined to testify, so the grand jury did not indict. There is nothing to return an indictment over, because it would all be second-hand evidence without an alleged victim to back it up. Likewise, the prosecutor could not directly file charges, as again, no victim.

As for Chandler’s supposed description, that particular piece of evidence has never been vetted, because he never appeared in court. There is only Sneddon’s claim that it matched, and frankly, if he said the sun rose in the east, I’d double check.
 

Resa

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Could someone clear up a couple of things for me, I know theres loads of info on here but I'm struggling to find an answer for these two things:

1. In 1993 there was a civil and criminal case going on at once right? A criminal case opened, meaning there was an investigation, but Michael was never criminally charged. Does this mean there was a jury looking at evidence? The reason I'm asking is some people use Chandlers penis description thing as their ultimate bit of proof. I've seen a police report thing that states it matched but was this Sneddon meddling in the whole thing? I've also heard that a jury saw all this and decided there wasn't enough evidence. I'm not entirely sure how this works, so a jury was being shown stuff? Someone said to me they settled out of court which means they never went to court thus a jury couldn't have seen it. I don't think this is right is it?

2. What was the timeline between the Bashir doc and Michael being arrested? Did Janet Arviso call someone and report abuse? On that Aphrodite Jones thing it seemed to imply that Sneddon just launched out with his search and arrest warrant after seeing the documentary alone.

There was a Grand Jury in 1993 through 1994 I think. Michael settled because he wanted the criminal trial to go before the Civil trial. The Chandlers wanted a civil trial.

I'm not as well versed as some fans about the allegations but I think what I typed in this response is correct.
 

Blondie

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RedMaryFlint;4248773 said:
Under the American legal system, you can be criminally charged in either of two ways: you can be indicted by a grand jury, or the prosecutor can directly file charges.

in 1993, a grand jury was convened to review the evidence. Jordan Chandler declined to testify, so the grand jury did not indict. There is nothing to return an indictment over, because it would all be second-hand evidence without an alleged victim to back it up. Likewise, the prosecutor could not directly file charges, as again, no victim.

As for Chandler&#8217;s supposed description, that particular piece of evidence has never been vetted, because he never appeared in court. There is only Sneddon&#8217;s claim that it matched, and frankly, if he said the sun rose in the east, I&#8217;d double check.

Ha! yeah that last bit was what I thought too. Funny a lot of people out there don't know about Sneddon. It does remind me of making a murderer...the greasy guy..Kratz? :puke:

Edit: ALSO someone brought up body language etc there. I read that another common characteristic of people who lie is that they go into too much detail to seem more believable. FUNNY THAT
 
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Karen Faye shared a new short part of Wade Robsons Police Interview of 1993.
He seames to be extreamly credible for me in all the three short parts I saw of this Interview!!
 

Robbsaber01

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RedMaryFlint;4248773 said:
Under the American legal system, you can be criminally charged in either of two ways: you can be indicted by a grand jury, or the prosecutor can directly file charges.

in 1993, a grand jury was convened to review the evidence. Jordan Chandler declined to testify, so the grand jury did not indict. There is nothing to return an indictment over, because it would all be second-hand evidence without an alleged victim to back it up. Likewise, the prosecutor could not directly file charges, as again, no victim.

As for Chandler’s supposed description, that particular piece of evidence has never been vetted, because he never appeared in court. There is only Sneddon’s claim that it matched, and frankly, if he said the sun rose in the east, I’d double check.
Jordans "description" stated MJ was circumcised. The autopsy report proved otherwise. Case closed. I doubt jordan even made that drawing. It wouldnt surprise me if Evan did it himself.
Ive heard a rumor on here that jordan played MJs music after 93 at a party. Does anyone know about this?
 

elusive moonwalker

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Something I sometimes see mentioned by people in comment sections is that the first accuser, so Chandler, had already admitted that it was all a lie. But that's not true. I wonder where that originated from. I do recall a woman a long time ago I believe in a video claiming that Jordan had told her it was all lies. But that's not good enough.

It probably stems from that.



Last week when Corey stood up for Michael before he became all PC a day or two later I saw him receiving tons of crap messages on Twitter. That just because he hadn't been abused it didn't mean these men hadn't been either. Wasn't Brett Barnes also called to be in denial by idiots online? I recall that.

For some people MJ just can't win. No matter how many times he gets acquitted, no matter how many investigations, no matter that zero evidence was ever found...he will always be a p in the eye of some total ****ing numbskulls. Don't want anything to do with those people either.

Chandler saying nothing happened stems from the witnesses who were willing to testify against him in 03. Those who attened parties at his house etc. He said nothing happened and hated his parents.played mjs music and danced to it.
 

elusive moonwalker

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Could someone clear up a couple of things for me, I know theres loads of info on here but I'm struggling to find an answer for these two things:

1. In 1993 there was a civil and criminal case going on at once right? A criminal case opened, meaning there was an investigation, but Michael was never criminally charged. Does this mean there was a jury looking at evidence? The reason I'm asking is some people use Chandlers penis description thing as their ultimate bit of proof. I've seen a police report thing that states it matched but was this Sneddon meddling in the whole thing? I've also heard that a jury saw all this and decided there wasn't enough evidence. I'm not entirely sure how this works, so a jury was being shown stuff? Someone said to me they settled out of court which means they never went to court thus a jury couldn't have seen it. I don't think this is right is it?

2. What was the timeline between the Bashir doc and Michael being arrested? Did Janet Arviso call someone and report abuse? On that Aphrodite Jones thing it seemed to imply that Sneddon just launched out with his search and arrest warrant after seeing the documentary alone.

In 93 there was a grand jury. That is a prosecution tool to get someone charged. It is very much one sided as 99% of the time the jury only hears prosecution evidence. Theres a saying that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich because its so one sided. The GJ sat and heard evidence against mj but wouldnt indict because there was no phyical evidence against him. A member of the GJ comfirmed this. Ie no discription match. The drawing supposedly done by chandler is laughable. It looked like a mushroom .all it said was he had blotches which is an obvious thing to say due to mj having vitiligo. As others say he claimed mj was circumcised which was false.personally as with the stick men drawings they dont look like they were drawn by a 13 or so year old. Imo evan prob drew them trying to hard to make them look way too childlike

Bashir doc was feb the arrest in november. After it aired sneddon contacted the arvizos.he left a business card under their door. The family denied anything happened as we know. Later on sneddon met with janet in a L.A supermarket carpark (he claimed it was just a coincedence. Even though sneddon lived in santa B.Sneddon had to testify about this in a pre hearing) at this carpark meeting he gave janet all the documents needed to claim money from the victim support fund.(another coincedence he had all these docs in his car!) After this they agreed to help him and sneddon had a case and the arrest happened
 
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elusive moonwalker

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Dan Reed's tweets on twitter just show how out of his depth he is. Love how almost every post of his has responses from MJ fans, and they aren't the "crazy, extreme fans" he depicts in his documentary, they're people who keep providing facts and evidence pro-Michael. Reed just posted from the WikiLeaks thing. Guy has an intense hatred for Michael it is crazy.

Whys the idiot posting i presume the FBI docs. Hasnt he read them. They support mjs innocence. Fool
 

elusive moonwalker

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Berry gordys niece has put out a statement against robson. Does anyone have it as its on my F B but i can only see half of it and cant copy as i use f.b lite.(old phone) talking about joy contacting mjj prod for money etc
 
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John Ziegler tweeted that he's disappointed in Harvey Levin from TMZ that he's siding with the two liars. Usually a smart man he says.

Let's go into that conspiracy theory for a sec. The other day we spoke about that tweet about a lawyer that claimed Oprah, Weinstein, Harvey Levin, Geffen and Gayle King funded LN.

Not saying it's true, we have no proof. But then it would make all the sense in the world that this time Levin isn't so smart,... on purpose.
 

dam2040

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We need a directory with quick facts for each accuser. Terry George is being brought up a lot and Google is pointing me to MJfacts.
 

elusive moonwalker

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Terry george is from my home city hes an attention seeker wannabe celeb. He met mj in 88 as a fan recorded some conversations. In 92 he tried to get to meet mj again but security stopped him. In 93 he was setting up a gay phone hotline and at that exact same time claimed he had had phone sex with mj inorder to promote it.my local paper called him out on it and revealed his new phone chat business at the same time. Of course he didnt record that convo but had all the others from 88! The fbi and police looked into his claims and found him to be a nutjob. His phone sex claims were in the sunday papers. He then denied it saying the tabloid threatened him with a story about himself but he claimed it was my friends who sold the story blah blah blah.

He was then in that louis theroux doc in 03 .when mj died he went on local news now claiming that he and mj were very good friends and had been planning to go into business together!
 

Blondie

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People are counting Jason Francia as an official accuser as well, quite frustrating. You can tell people have just done a quick google job, found some names from crappy articles and have come back thinking they have something. I didn't really know the extent of how the police were pushing these ideas on kids they interviewed. Are all these police interviews recorded? It's quite outrageous really. People should know this.
 

1nn5

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mjfan_93;4248815 said:
Guys. Don&#8217;t know if it has been reported but here in Germany Michael Jacobshagen is claiming that Michael molested him as a teen.

These sick liars are destoying his legacy. What can we do?

https://www.focus.de/panorama/diver...wuerfe-gegen-michael-jackson_id_10438661.html

7 months ago he was asking to participate with MJ Cast in MJ anniversary xD.
When Carol LaMere said " I am tired of people calling me to talk about Michael Jackson.and say mean things about him " it's not a joke.
 
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mjfan_93;4248815 said:
Guys. Don’t know if it has been reported but here in Germany Michael Jacobshagen is claiming that Michael molested him as a teen.

These sick liars are destoying his legacy. What can we do?

https://www.focus.de/panorama/diver...wuerfe-gegen-michael-jackson_id_10438661.html

Oh no!!!
This is a differerent version of the story he told in the sunday night special.

In the sunday night special he didn't say anything about an erection of Michael in the bed, that he had kissed him on his neck, and that MJ sound like he would mastubate in the bathroom.

He is like Wade.

We should ask how much Jocobshagen did get for the interview of the "Bildzeitung", the Interview with the Sun and the Sunday Night special and this Radio interview someone shared two days ago.
Remember that Aron Carter said they offerd him money for specific interviews.
In the past other people also sold fake stories to the tabloids about Michael.

I think Jocobshagen has a connection to Dan Reed and is hiared from his team.
Cause he came forward directly one day after the sudance airing and the Sunday night reporter is a friend of Dan Reed as far as I have understand it.

Remember that after the anouncement of Leaving Neverland Dan Reed talked in a interview about a third accuser he had spoke to but won't come forward in the moment.
I think it was Jocobshagen.
A man who is easy to buy, has no pronlem to trash MJ and making money out of him after what we know about him in the past.

The Sun Interview was published one day after the airing of LN at sundance!

The australian Sunday Night Special with a very sweating Jocobshagen was aired one week before the airing on HBO.

Now were the defense of Michael gets stronger every day and debunk more and more lies Jocobshagens claimbs get more and more agressive and intensive.

There is a connection between him and Dan Reed I am sure.
He is a hourse in his sick chess game.

It is very sad that the fans who have talked with Jacobshagen in January didn't had the idea to record it.
 
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That ****ing loser Jacobshagen again? Jesus christ. Can that piece of vermin already just crawl back into his hole again.

I guess he wants some of that pathetic LN pie too. What a scumbag. I forgot, did he ever meet Michael at all?
 
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