myosotis
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Yes, page 18. Mentions wedding ring and a signed document. Nothing else.
(Doc is in 'Legal Resources' in Trials / Tribs)
Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]
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Yes, page 18. Mentions wedding ring and a signed document. Nothing else.
(Doc is in 'Legal Resources' in Trials / Tribs)
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona
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ok did they say there that the ceremony took place in neverland?
Did they say that MJ abused James in all the same occasions in neverland he mentioned in the film?
myosotis
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I'm not sure if it's been shared here before, but there is an interesting article about HBO's documentary- production 'philosophy', which dates from July 2015.
If Reed took 2 years to make this Doc, then they probably started filming around Dec 16, so the article is reasonably close in time to LN being commissioned.
If HBO pay around $1million per hour, we know why this film is 4 hours long!
I was also struck by the 'Relatability and Relevance' quote. Heard that before from Robson's deposition, but I'm not sure of the date he wrote it. Likely to be from when he was writing his book, circa 2012.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3045903...r-emotional-truth-in-documentary-storytelling
05.07.15 BY KC IFEANYI
(NB Extracts only, here, as it is a long article.)
Includes quotes from HBO director Brett Morgen’s latest documentary, Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck, and Sheila Nevins, President of HBO Documentaries.
Inside HBO’s Quest For Emotional Truth
“There is no objective truth, which is why movies that are built on Wikipedia biographies are failed attempts to begin with,” Morgen says.
It’s hard to divorce yourself from personal experiences. Even when presenting someone else’s life, you’re looking at it through a lens of your own design. What makes a documentary compelling–or not–is how a director chooses to relate that emotional truth in an artful way. HBO has been a champion for such directors, acting as a megaphone for projects the network acquires, or building out its own films in-house.
HBO’s eminent voice in contemporary documentaries has, in large part, to do with Sheila Nevins, president of HBO documentaries. Her boiled-down strategy: relatability, relevance, creative clarity, and, echoing Morgen, emotional truth.
RELATABILITY
“We have to cut through the morass of media,” Nevins says. “One of the ways to cut through is not just star appeal, but by touching the population where it hurts and where it also energizes them. You have to zero in in some way–you have to find a way into it.
RELEVANCE
Nevins, more than anyone, can attest to how far documentaries and documentary storytelling have come. When Nevins first started at HBO in 1979 after leaving a job at ABC’s 20/20, she admits she didn’t know anything about making documentaries, and put into production films that recapped the decades. “They were so boring,” Nevins recalls. “And then I saw Jaws was doing well, so then I did a story about sharks. And when War of the Roses was doing well, I did a story about divorce and alimony. So I stole from the movies [audiences] were buying–ideas that could be documentaries. We look for the things in the changing world that most people would be interested in at a given time. So it’s not a consistent thing–it’s what’s in the atmosphere of importance at a particular time and place. You have to feel the day–you have to feel the todayness of the day.”
Although HBO is vague on its exact budget for documentaries–a New York Times story reported the network pays, on average, “mid to high hundreds of thousands per hour, equal to the highest end of PBS” for documentaries–what really matters is tapping into and nurturing filmmakers’ creativity or being able to spot potential for acquisitions like with Going Clear.
TRUTH
“And it’s like, no you ****ing idiot.”
Morgen is in the middle of recounting a recent post-screening Q&A when someone in attendance took his statement that he’s not concerned with facts to mean he’s creating films based on lies. “It’s an acknowledgement there’s no such thing as an objective truth. There’s no such thing as an objective fact. But there is something called an emotional truth. That’s what I’m after, and I use real people’s lives, and I am so hardcore in my research. I did not phone this shit in. I want to **** every frame that comes before me–I want to know it inside and out.”
There can be an expectation for documentaries to cram every small detail of a subject’s life into a film, with no cherrypicking allowed. When documentarians speak of “truth,” however, what’s stressed constantly is the emotional undercurrent of facts. As Canadian filmmaker Michel Brault once put it:
I don’t know what truth is. Truth is something unattainable. We can’t think we’re creating truth with a camera. But what we can do is reveal something to viewers that allows them to discover their own truth.
“I heard Laura Poitras say something very interesting recently about Citizenfour,” Safinia recalls. “She said, ‘I am a journalist, but instead of telling just the facts, I’m telling the emotions.’ I thought that was so powerful, because you can tell the same story, but you can decide to tell it through a different lens.”
For Nevins, producing game-changing documentaries like Montage of Heck is only part of the equation to maintaining HBO’s prominence in the field. It’s also, “How do we get into the heartbeat of that particular ethos of a particular time in a way that’s uniquely ours, and people won’t say, ‘I saw this documentary on television . . . ‘–they’ll say, ‘I saw this documentary on HBO.'”
If Reed took 2 years to make this Doc, then they probably started filming around Dec 16, so the article is reasonably close in time to LN being commissioned.
If HBO pay around $1million per hour, we know why this film is 4 hours long!
I was also struck by the 'Relatability and Relevance' quote. Heard that before from Robson's deposition, but I'm not sure of the date he wrote it. Likely to be from when he was writing his book, circa 2012.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3045903...r-emotional-truth-in-documentary-storytelling
05.07.15 BY KC IFEANYI
(NB Extracts only, here, as it is a long article.)
Includes quotes from HBO director Brett Morgen’s latest documentary, Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck, and Sheila Nevins, President of HBO Documentaries.
Inside HBO’s Quest For Emotional Truth
“There is no objective truth, which is why movies that are built on Wikipedia biographies are failed attempts to begin with,” Morgen says.
It’s hard to divorce yourself from personal experiences. Even when presenting someone else’s life, you’re looking at it through a lens of your own design. What makes a documentary compelling–or not–is how a director chooses to relate that emotional truth in an artful way. HBO has been a champion for such directors, acting as a megaphone for projects the network acquires, or building out its own films in-house.
HBO’s eminent voice in contemporary documentaries has, in large part, to do with Sheila Nevins, president of HBO documentaries. Her boiled-down strategy: relatability, relevance, creative clarity, and, echoing Morgen, emotional truth.
RELATABILITY
“We have to cut through the morass of media,” Nevins says. “One of the ways to cut through is not just star appeal, but by touching the population where it hurts and where it also energizes them. You have to zero in in some way–you have to find a way into it.
RELEVANCE
Nevins, more than anyone, can attest to how far documentaries and documentary storytelling have come. When Nevins first started at HBO in 1979 after leaving a job at ABC’s 20/20, she admits she didn’t know anything about making documentaries, and put into production films that recapped the decades. “They were so boring,” Nevins recalls. “And then I saw Jaws was doing well, so then I did a story about sharks. And when War of the Roses was doing well, I did a story about divorce and alimony. So I stole from the movies [audiences] were buying–ideas that could be documentaries. We look for the things in the changing world that most people would be interested in at a given time. So it’s not a consistent thing–it’s what’s in the atmosphere of importance at a particular time and place. You have to feel the day–you have to feel the todayness of the day.”
Although HBO is vague on its exact budget for documentaries–a New York Times story reported the network pays, on average, “mid to high hundreds of thousands per hour, equal to the highest end of PBS” for documentaries–what really matters is tapping into and nurturing filmmakers’ creativity or being able to spot potential for acquisitions like with Going Clear.
TRUTH
“And it’s like, no you ****ing idiot.”
Morgen is in the middle of recounting a recent post-screening Q&A when someone in attendance took his statement that he’s not concerned with facts to mean he’s creating films based on lies. “It’s an acknowledgement there’s no such thing as an objective truth. There’s no such thing as an objective fact. But there is something called an emotional truth. That’s what I’m after, and I use real people’s lives, and I am so hardcore in my research. I did not phone this shit in. I want to **** every frame that comes before me–I want to know it inside and out.”
There can be an expectation for documentaries to cram every small detail of a subject’s life into a film, with no cherrypicking allowed. When documentarians speak of “truth,” however, what’s stressed constantly is the emotional undercurrent of facts. As Canadian filmmaker Michel Brault once put it:
I don’t know what truth is. Truth is something unattainable. We can’t think we’re creating truth with a camera. But what we can do is reveal something to viewers that allows them to discover their own truth.
“I heard Laura Poitras say something very interesting recently about Citizenfour,” Safinia recalls. “She said, ‘I am a journalist, but instead of telling just the facts, I’m telling the emotions.’ I thought that was so powerful, because you can tell the same story, but you can decide to tell it through a different lens.”
For Nevins, producing game-changing documentaries like Montage of Heck is only part of the equation to maintaining HBO’s prominence in the field. It’s also, “How do we get into the heartbeat of that particular ethos of a particular time in a way that’s uniquely ours, and people won’t say, ‘I saw this documentary on television . . . ‘–they’ll say, ‘I saw this documentary on HBO.'”
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Do you have a link to the post or her name?
L.T.D
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This wedding ring video is going to be a major blow for me because I feel like we have been making progress, and now they're going to think they have actual evidence that Safechuck is telling the truth.
What's worse is the media will pick this up instantly even though they have ignored everything from us. Feel like it's going to knock us back a few steps, and I've been extremely positive till now.
What's worse is the media will pick this up instantly even though they have ignored everything from us. Feel like it's going to knock us back a few steps, and I've been extremely positive till now.
myosotis
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I'm sorry, but I've put the resources in the Trials and Tribs section so people can look up all the info they need. (It takes a long time to answer individual questions and I'd like to look at other media etc in the time that I have available).
The link is here:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/273431049/Safechuck-Civil-Complaint
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona
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Perl Jr. Did know about this video and was wondereing in one or two of her last videos that it was not included in LN.
1. Reason: They didn't know about it existance
2. Reason: They didn't got the copy right.
I think one of the haters saw Perl, found the video and send it to the tabloids.
john13th
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Yeah, I am with you on that choice, I won't watch it either when it airs tonight here in Sweden about an hour (1st part). So unfair, pathetic and appalling documentary. I wonder what the repercussions are here in Sweden, I have avoided reading Swedish news media completely since beginning of this month...Very.b;4248931 said:
But at least they played Billie Jean in a particular radio station today and other songs for the recent past days.
myosotis
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MJ went shopping for toys and books (for children) on a regular basis. The media will make something of anything.
Unless they interview the shop owner, confirm a date, get CCTV of MJ in there with Safechuck and match the ring style with the stock / sales ledger, the media have no evidence of anything.
Interestingly, Twitter fans are posting sections of film and interview where Robson and Safechuck are obviously trying not to laugh, and for Safechuck, he's not-quite managing to suppress a smirk when talking about the 'marriage' both in the film and during the Oprah interview.
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elusive moonwalker
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There wasnt any name in the article which seems abit odd
L.T.D
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I get that, I dont need to be convinced of anything myself. I'm just saying that its going to be so infuriating when they pick this up after ignoring our side of the story.
How could a fan be so careless to post this publicly?
Staffordshire Bullterrier
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Good lord, this shit is pathetic really. So Michael went to a Jewelry store, God forbid he did that.
He did? Interesting. That's news for me.
He did? Interesting. That's news for me.
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona
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Delated
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MJInnocent
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The problem is this is not a toy shop but a jeweller's,it could be Safechuck with him and it is on CCTV.
Either way,its not damning evidence of anything but rather just helping support JS story.
Staffordshire Bullterrier
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You guys know rapper The Game right? He had a great tribute song when Mike passed away.
His instagram:
His instagram:
MJInnocent
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Seen this on Twitter and thought it was very good.
MJInnocent
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It's a great track,I have it on Spotify,brilliant lyrics with the MJ part.
Actually,I am thinking of a different song,We Ain't,that's the one.
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SmoothGangsta
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She thinks James is telling the truth. Says nothing in his body language shows lies.
terrell
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She needs to see his interviews. Lying all the way. The thing about these "experts", one will see it one way and another will see it way one.
Have you watched the documentary? Because you're talking about rings and stuff and I don't wanna see one second of this documentary. James is saying something that is true? :/
It's hard to follow everything and I'm new to this forum and English is not my main language.
It's hard to follow everything and I'm new to this forum and English is not my main language.
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona
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Delated.
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona
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elusive moonwalker
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The story was bizarre to start with. You would need a weird imagination to create it out of nothing. As barnes said he liked rings etc. so maybe mj did buy him something as he bought many ppl things. Safechuck had a foundation for the story and built his B.S around it.