Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[StaceyMJ]

JCO8 - I have to agree with the others, I don’t think this is the place for you. Nows certainly not the time or place to be playing devils advocate. I would join the others that say if I had any doubt about this at all I would not be here, certainly not an admin for a site dedicated to him.

I deleted a link from the other forum about Reeds article about his pedo hunter film!

Somebody should inform the guys on that forum that its a really wrong wrong blog when you check the other posts there, the person is praising Garry Glitter and co, it is not a good blog!

WARN THEM PLEASE! not to spread any info from that blog and ask the mods/admins to delete the post of a user named - PG13 on page 39 of the LN thread

What forum? Let me know if there’s anything that needs to be deleted at MJJC.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

i dont see how wade and safechucky boy could get info here especially since this is an all pro mj forum if they are looking at this forums they morons for doing so

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Tarana Burke, the founder of the #MeToo movement, attended the “Leaving Neverland” premiere and in an interview two days later said she was still processing the film.
...
Hours after “Leaving Neverland” debuted in Park City, Burke met with Robson and Safechuck to offer her thoughts on how to deal with the public backlash that may emerge in the coming months.

“I am in the center of a lot of that criticism on a daily basis, and as a survivor, it’s hard to hold that,” she said. “One of the things we talked about is that there’s going to be so much more support than there is criticism. They said that being here, this is one of the first times they’ve ever felt supported in their allegations.”

That is interesting cause we all know that what they told this woman is an absolutly damm lie.

They had a huge and very strong support over all this years from maaaaaaany MJ haters and the people who run and support "MJFacts".

When you go on their YouTube channel you find other suppoted channels and a supportive Robson related Facebook group.

I don't know why we don't talk about a connection between MJFacts the two "victims" and the film (for me its not a documentery).
Cause the story of the film fits the story they try to tell for years on their channel and webside.
Their first video aired on July2 2013 so there was as support since day one!

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

do you really think that they are not aware of this board and threads about them?
its not paranoia, its reality, you can wait at a bus station and read twitter or this forum on your iphone and it takes just a few mins, wherever just like us, we can browse the net, we know where to find any relevant info, they are not such dumb

Of course they are. They would be dumb not to be checking what reaction they are getting.

Sneddon tried to get this board as it was back during the trial shut down because of the great work that was been done to destroy his case.info that was passed onto the lawyers from fans who had contact with the arvizos etc.this was all documented in court papers. Were we paranoid then that people were watching....

 

[8701girl]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Of course they are. They would be dumb not to be checking what reaction they are getting.

Sneddon tried to get this board as it was back during the trial shut down because of the great work that was been done to destroy his case.info that was passed onto the lawyers from fans who had contact with the arvizos etc.this was all documented in court papers. Were we paranoid then that people were watching....

how do u know bout that?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Another hater was Geraldo Rivera until he got into the case and saw for himself and changed his mind and became a hard defender of MJ's.

You remember when he kept getting sent to Iraq on a reporting mission everytime he supported mj ? you have to laugh

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Yeah it was this interview what Piers Morgan did with Michael and is absolut understandable that he changed his opinion after it: https://youtu.be/Z0I4ukeiLBo
It takes a little while til the recorded part comes.
Its maybe good to listen to it again in these days.

He flipped again later on. Said mj was creepy etc. Morgan is tabloid filth whos newspaper the mirror was involved in huge phone hacking of celebs etc along with the news of the world that got shut down.he should have been put on trial and locked up for it. Hes a darling of the establishment

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

how do u know bout that?

Because i was member here during the trial or the old mjjf as it was called then. We had the court docs of sneddons filings. Everythings public record.

 

[Lightbringer]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Ok, then their case was rejected because the judge decided they could not accuse the Estate for someone else's alleged acts.

Right. Then came this documentary. This is what frightened me the most, before it was premiered. It means that 6 years after their claims, they are still into it. I mean they are now dedicating their whole adult life to this. What for ? money ? The film maker said they did not receive any money for making this documentary. Some say they hope their case to be reopened and therefore at the very end they still wanna get some money from the Estate. Ok, maybe they hope so. I still don't know. And I still believe they have the right to need to go there if they are victims.

OK. This mocumentary will be broadcasted worldwide and sold to TV networks and streaming sites etc. Dan Reed is doing PR for it and I am sure they have planned everything to get the most publicity as possible. This will mean they can sell the documentary to more networks. This could generate BIG BIG BUCK as this film will drop like BOMB.

You seriously believe Safechuch and Robson wont get a dime? How do you know that? I find that to be absurd thinking.

We know that Robson has been fishing around and doing "research" on things that happened back then to more prepared. You think he did all that and get nothing in return financially? I am not buying into that at all.

You also correctly point out Robson for many years has been into this, but what does that prove? After filing the lawsuit and going on his PR tour he already burned his bridges - no turning back from there. So might as well pursue this to the end when he started.
---
Also, you mention how great of a career Robson had etc and why would he risk that? Have you forgotten Robson had "breakdowns" because of his career failures? It seems you ignore this part. And why do you mean Robson has sacrificed his career by doing the documentary or accusing Michael? Are you convinced Robson will be blacklisted from work because of this? I just dont see why this would kill his carrer.

At last: You choose to believe Wade & Safechuck on basis WHAT YOU thinks is a reasonable motivation to be part of the documentary - and that might be because you are an honest and decent person. Have you considered that not all people does not have the same morals standards as you do?

I think its healthy to be skeptical and and admit we can not be 100% sure what happened or not happened, but I find the reasons for you jumping ship not that convincing!

I do think it was rather brave of you to write your message and be upfront on how you feel, I can understand and respect that even do I do not agree with your arguments.

 

[marialovesmjj]

^ Yep.

And I mean that aside think about it...

1. It’s the internet
2. This is the biggest MJ fan forum? There’s others but of course people use Twitter and other platforms more now. But a good amount of people still come here.
3. If WR was involved with MJ related things up until a certain point why wouldn’t he know about it?

 

[8701girl]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

You remember when he kept getting sent to Iraq on a reporting mission everytime he supported mj ? you have to laugh

yeh i remember that

 

[8701girl]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Because i was member here during the trial or the old mjjf as it was called then. We had the court docs of sneddons filings. Everythings public record.

wow i didnt know bout

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Facebook message from michael bush.

I am saddened by the false attacks on my boss and dear friend Michael Jackson only when sadly he is not here to defend himself. As someone who was with Michael Jackson daily and having spent years traveling with him and spending countless hours in his company, I have absolutely no doubt that the recent stories from Wade Robeson and Jimmy Safechuck are completely false and totally fabricated especially given their own support of Michael through his life and for several years after. It’s truly upsetting what someone will do for fame and money and pure greed despite what Michael Jackson did for these two opportunists and their families for many years. At the end of the day truth always prevails and the world will see Robeson and Safechuck for what they are. – Michael Bush

 

[8701girl]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

yeh i saw that what he wrote

 

[Hess]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's bad...

Now danish news papers are starting to write about it too. - Both tabloids, but also serious newspapers.

One headline was something like: After watching the new doc about MJ there is no doubt: Michael Jackson was a paedofile...

What a terible head-line and terrible article. - It has just started in Denmark I am affraid it will only get worse from here.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

JC08

You have serious doubts because of these two admitted liars? Really? I read your whole message and not once did you mention the fact how full of nonsense their claims are, how the claims in 2015 go fully against what he said during the trial, it goes completely against it. This here is a person coming up with a fabricated story. Much like the Arvizo family did, the mother did. You seem to ignore all the facts that are out there. If you truly did all the research for the other accusers I suggest you do the same here and it's honestly baffling if you still come to the conclusion that you're seriously doubting him now.

You also didn't respond to my message at all. Again, these two liars are using the book that was banned for their claims. How is that credible? The director says he didn't get money for it, well then that must be true right? Come on now. What makes these guys different than a Arvizo or Chandler? Nothing. Their claims are full of bullshit and contradictions.

You're seriously doubting his innocence, well I am seriously baffled that you say this, based on these two individuals.

 

[Erandi]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

JC08

You have serious doubts because of these two admitted liars? Really? I read your whole message and not once did you mention the fact how full of nonsense their claims are, how the claims in 2015 go fully against what he said during the trial, it goes completely against it. This here is a person coming up with a fabricated story. Much like the Arvizo family did, the mother did. You seem to ignore all the facts that are out there. If you truly did all the research for the other accusers I suggest you do the same here and it's honestly baffling if you still come to the conclusion that you're seriously doubting him now.

You also didn't respond to my message at all. Again, these two liars are using the book that was banned for their claims. How is that credible? The director says he didn't get money for it, well then that must be true right? Come on now. What makes these guys different than a Arvizo or Chandler? Nothing. Their claims are full of bullshit and contradictions.

You're seriously doubting his innocence, well I am seriously baffled that you say this, based on these two individuals.

I think we should just ignore JCO8 from now on. I am not one to cast stones, never had an argument with anyone on this forum, but this memeber is just too much. People have tried to reason with him/her, bring arguments in support, but he/she always responds with the same speech as Wade (even the story behind is the same). It seems very strange to me.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

i never thought it would get this bad 10 years later after his death but i have faith the truth will come out and mj will onnce again be proven innocent

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's bad...

Now danish news papers are starting to write about it too. - Both tabloids, but also serious newspapers.

One headline was something like: After watching the new doc about MJ there is no doubt: Michael Jackson was a paedofile...

What a terible head-line and terrible article. - It has just started in Denmark I am affraid it will only get worse from here.

And those three assholes can be thanked for that. It's unbelievable. A one sided doc with no evidence at all and these media idiots are so quick to make a judgment. But really, is it any wonder?

It's not like they gave the trial a fair coverage. I'm sure they said it was horrible when MJ died, but that's all fake as hell. They don't give a damn. A good journalist, a proper one would want to look at both sides.

They conclude he can only have been a pedophile eh? Yet they haven't read the facts about these "victims" at all, which would sure change their minds but still wouldn't report on that I'm sure. To all these "journalists" I say... **** you, ****.... you. That a "doc" like this can so easily away people and the media. It just shows how sad they are.

 

[Gwyneira]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I think we should just ignore JCO8 from now on. I am not one to cast stones, never had an argument with anyone on this forum, but this memeber is just too much. People have tried to reason with him/her, bring arguments in support, but he/she always responds with the same speech as Wade (even the story behind is the same). It seems very strange to me.

I think it's normal to have doubts and questions and want to come here for support, to get re-convinced that you were right to believe in him. I think most people who feel like that are probably too afraid to post here, but I wouldn't discourage it. This should be a space for ALL fans (clearly JC08 is not a new member or anything). It's been very helpful for me, there are a lot of good detectives and convincing arguments here. But there's also a lot of FAITH. And I think we need a little bit of both. Frankly, I would still have love for Michael even if it were proven that there was some truth to their story. Because it's possible to be both good and bad, and we KNOW he had a tremendous amount of good in him. Just saying.

Now back to detectiving. I think we should compile a factual timeline of the boys' friendships with Michael. One of their points has been that Michael kept them very separate, i.e. had one special friend at a time. This would mean that Wade had a good chunk of Michael's time (7 years) and I just don't find that very believable. They couldn't have spent that much time together during those seven years, and yet no one had a clue? Wade showed no signs of distress or anxiety during their time apart, and was happy to jump back into his long distance relationship when they did meet? It seems a little fishy. What timeline do the (credible) accusers cover? I don't think there's anyone like that after the 1993 case, right? (I don't count the Arvizos as credible) He was certainly very restrained then, wasn't he?

 

[Lovepeace1]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hi guys,
I think they are being very hard on the JCO user. he has simply expressed that he is having doubts, he has expressed it here because he feels part of this and will surely need our moral support because it must be very difficult to feel doubts about a person who has occupied a large part of his life and I do not imagine he wants to talk what he feels with someone who does not love michael because he would not like to be attacked like any of us. We are simply human, we can have doubts, it is normal because our head processes the information it obtains and can question everything and we feel and empathize with people, as human has been able to empathize with them at a given moment because it is human and has been able to doubt. This is not a crime and does not mean that someone is not a fan for it. It does not mean that he does not love Michael. Any user who is here is because he loves michael, no matter how long was here or anything, there are people who are fans of michael all their lives and have never been in a forum of fans, the love for michael is something that you carry in your heart. I think he has not done anything wrong, he has not put himself on the side of wade and james, he has only expressed his doubts because we are human and it is normal to doubt and question things in all the subjects of life, our brain works like this, we analyze each point in our mind. Doubt and analyze why these doubts do not imply being on one side or the other. Give this person a break because I do not think he deserves to be told such hard things,he is being honest with you, sharing his feelings sharing his doubts with you because he is human and because he feels part of this, I do not think he deserves to be treated this way .

 

[MJTruth]

Guys, I have seen it posted many times that the stories of Safechuck and Robson are very similar to stories in the Victor Gutierrez book, BUT I haven't seen any proof of that. People want to believe the Safechuck/Robson stories and to fight that, we need to provide proof. Sadly R&S get free reign to say whatever they like without challenge but we need PROOF.

In the unlikely scenario that somebody has access to that book then we need to read the book, compare it to the legal documents and then provide references. We need page numbers. Better yet, we need scans of the relevant pages from the book so that we can PROVE beyond doubt that the stories are taken from that book.

IF we can provide scans of pages from the book, together with pages from legal documents, then people cannot deny the stories are fraudulent!

I looked on the net and there is one copy in the UK but it costs £100 - too much for me.
There is copy in the USA selling for £56 but it would take too long to get here.

(a copy sold in the USA for only £12 earlier this month!)


Does anybody have access to the book?

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

To think that Dan Reed wouldn't get any money from it from Sundance, Channel 4 and HBO in find extremely unlikely. Absolutely bullshit.

 

[Lightbringer]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I am sure this has been mentioned, but I need to say it myself again.

If Michael had been raping Wade Robson every time they saw each other for years. WHY would Jackson set up for the Robson family to be in on television to speak about him when the Chandler accusations emerged? Why? Thats just INSANE.

Why would Michael have Wade Robson as his key witness during the 2005 if he had sexually abused Robson thousands of times? WHY? Thats just INSANE.

WHY put everything at risk by involving Robson when Michael must have known Robson could ruin his life in a moment, if he just said anything wrong? Its just beyond absurd to think Michael would have done that if the molestation had taken place. Its mind-boogling when you consider it.

Michael did not need Robson to win the 2005 case, it was a slam dunk for the defense. The prosecutions case was so weak, it was a travesty it even went to court. If Tom Sneddon had not been the DA, the case would never have made it to court. If the accused had not been Michael Jackson, the case would never went to court.

 

[Gwyneira]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

To think that Dan Reed wouldn't get any money from it from Sundance, Channel 4 and HBO in find extremely unlikely. Absolutely bullshit.

Of course he will! And yet surely he won't be compensating the stars of the film without whom it would be nothing.. I think that's actually a very important point - they're trying to really emphasize that Jimmy and Wade didn't get paid for it, but it sounds like just some technicality that you know they're ultimately getting around. Like, maybe they didn't get "paid for appearing", but they will be getting a cut from profits (and there will be lot). Or secret payments to that charity they set up which can't be traced.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Of course he will! And yet surely he won't be compensating the stars of the film without whom it would be nothing.. I think that's actually a very important point - they're trying to really emphasize that Jimmy and Wade didn't get paid for it, but it sounds like just some technicality that you know they're ultimately getting around. Like, maybe they didn't get "paid for appearing", but they will be getting a cut from profits (and there will be lot). Or secret payments to that charity they set up which can't be traced.

We know for a fact it can't be traced? Because isn't that even slightly shady? I don't know how those things usually work.

 

[dam2040]

If there was ever a time to doubt Jackson’s innocence this is not it. This is the weakest case of the three in my eyes and that is REALLY saying something.

 

[Gwyneira]

We know for a fact it can't be traced? Because isn't that even slightly shady? I don't know how those things usually work.

This is from the Roger Friedman article. I also don't know how that works, but it kind of sounds like he knows what he's talking about: "Meanwhile, Robson has started a not for profit foundation and is soliciting donations. There can be no transparency, as he’s parked his 501 c3 very cleverly under something called the Hawaii Community Foundation. That way, Robson doesn’t have to file a form 990. We’ll never know if the makers of “Leaving Neverland” have donated money to it, for example. This was done on purpose. Leonardo DiCaprio does the same thing with his Foundation. It’s hidden."

 

[VaNiL]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Guys, I have seen it posted many times that the stories of Safechuck and Robson are very similar to stories in the Victor Gutierrez book, BUT I haven't seen any proof of that. People want to believe the Safechuck/Robson stories and to fight that, we need to provide proof. Sadly R&S get free reign to say whatever they like without challenge but we need PROOF.

In the unlikely scenario that somebody has access to that book then we need to read the book, compare it to the legal documents and then provide references. We need page numbers. Better yet, we need scans of the relevant pages from the book so that we can PROVE beyond doubt that the stories are taken from that book.

IF we can provide scans of pages from the book, together with pages from legal documents, then people cannot deny the stories are fraudulent!

Does anybody have access to the book?

I honestly wouldn't want to have access to that book, let alone even have a PDF file of it. It's disgusting and, for me, bordeline illegal material. Just plain creepy.

But here you have a LONG detailed Twitter thread, which clarifys (including scans of the book) the whole Safechuck deposition. It's TOO much similar, even identical situations or details, to be just coincidence. Even if somebody wanted to believe his claims, knowing this... it's absolutely fishy. I do believe Victor Gutierrez was behind all the molestation claims since day one.

https://twitter.com/Hammertonhal/status/1085620426536112129

 

[MJTruth]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I honestly wouldn't want to have access to that book, let alone even have a PDF file of it. It's disgusting and, for me, bordeline illegal material. Just plain creepy.

But here you have a Twitter thread, which clarifys (including scans of the book) the whole Safechuck deposition. It's TOO much similar, even identical situations or details, to be just coincidence:

[FONT=&quot]https://twitter.com/Hammertonhal/status/1085620426536112129[/FONT]

I agree with you. Thanks for the link. I'll read the information later to see whether it achieves what I wanted to achieve.

Of course he will! And yet surely he won't be compensating the stars of the film without whom it would be nothing.. I think that's actually a very important point - they're trying to really emphasize that Jimmy and Wade didn't get paid for it, but it sounds like just some technicality that you know they're ultimately getting around. Like, maybe they didn't get "paid for appearing", but they will be getting a cut from profits (and there will be lot). Or secret payments to that charity they set up which can't be traced.

One thing is for sure...R&S WILL be profiting from this film in some way.
They have made far too much effort to gain financially from their case already, and they plan to appeal the judge's decision later this year. Despite what they say this IS about money. They hired a law firm who specialises in forcing financial settlements from organisations FFS! There's a giant red flag right there!
Finaldi is rubbing his hands with glee in the background and making public statements about the case and his clients demonstrates he is very much involved with this. His outrageous claims about being certain their appeal will be successful (when there are no legal grounds) will make no difference to a decision on the appeal, and as a lawyer he MUST know that, so they can only be aimed at the general public and press.

I can only assume Finaldi's statements are an attempt to promote public confidence in the allegations (through the press) and add pressure to the MJ Estate but I have to say that approach is confusing (IMO).The damage is done. Sure, once the film is shown on HBO and C4 larger portions of shite will hit the fan, but this documentary has ensured that the MJ Estate WON'T make a settlement, even if they wanted to. Surely the only leverage the R&S/Finaldi team was the threat of doing real damage to the MJ brand. Well they've done that now. The cat is out of the bag. There is NO WAY the MJ Estate could conceive of paying a settlement at this point. NO WAY. So if not a misguided attempt to force a settlement with the MJ Estate then what is the reason for those statements? Spite? why not just sit F down and shut the F up?!

Anyway, if this film were only about raising awareness as they claim, then there would be NO need to appeal their civil case. none at all.


Even without direct compensation for this film there IS a way these guys are going to get paid. I don't know exactly what their plan is but they WILL be paid, whether it be indirectly through profits, or even from another project that will be linked to this one. Will their book deal be successful now? Will there be a drama series? God the opportunities for them are almost limitless.