Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

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Absolutely agree about Reed. I would not be surprised if someday something comes out about him, but people don't believe it because "but look at all he's done to expose this issue! He surely wouldn't be involved in that himself!1!!" Barf.

Wouldn't surprise me at all either.

How he said these kind of projects excite him, but doesn't know why. Or something along those lines. Who the **** says that?

Or describing a relation between a adult male and young boy as a fulfilling, loving relationship. Who the hell in their right mind describes it like that? Yet none of these idiots that saw the "documentary" said PAUSE when they see Reed say this?
 

terrell

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Wouldn't surprise me at all either.

How he said these kind of projects excite him, but doesn't know why. Or something along those lines. Who the **** says that?

Or describing a relation between a adult male and young boy as a fulfilling, loving relationship. Who the hell in their right mind describes it like that? Yet none of these idiots that saw the "documentary" said PAUSE when they see Reed say this?
I agree. Do not worry, I believe Dan's is going to do himself in.
 
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I don't really know from where this strange pedophilic smack of LN comes from.
But someone who had worked on it definitly had the idea to turn the original storys into love storys and add new things to it like the sexual "adventures" at Neverland which should have happened outside of MJs bedroom.
They were never love storys before in any word what was said or whritten!
Not in the long cross examination in 2005, in any interview or transcript!
And the question is why they suddenly turned the things which should have happened between MJ and this men into love storys?
Did Wade and James want to conceal this very interesting detail before?
Was it to make the storys much more beliveable and comprehensible esspecially for MJ Fans (what did work very well in some cases) and exiting?
Or were there NAMBLA with an agenda behind it?
 
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Paris78

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michael Jackson's &quot;Thriller&quot; has re-entered the top 200 on US iTunes.</p>&mdash; chart data (@chartdata) <a href="https://twitter.com/chartdata/status/1179186733826617344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2. Oktober 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The shade was so subtle istg <a href="https://t.co/bWF11ioIUB">pic.twitter.com/bWF11ioIUB</a></p>&mdash; Esma Elhan (@JerrEsma) <a href="https://twitter.com/JerrEsma/status/1179105748770607106?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">1. Oktober 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJFam?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJFam</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJInnocent?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJInnocent</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> <br>Another important date to look forward to. MJ Fans France suit against Robson/Safechuck, judgement date 4 October, one day before <a href="https://twitter.com/dannywuyue?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dannywuyue</a>'s Square One London Premiere 5 October<a href="https://t.co/6CEYFySG6r">https://t.co/6CEYFySG6r</a></p>&mdash; Freddie De Souza (@FreddieKevin) <a href="https://twitter.com/FreddieKevin/status/1179243132543746048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2. Oktober 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michael Jackson's &quot;Thriller&quot; has re-entered the US iTunes Top 40 Music Video Charts and lands the #10 spot. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KingOfPop?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#KingOfPop</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJFam?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJFam</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> <a href="https://t.co/sQ8MYTMKdE">pic.twitter.com/sQ8MYTMKdE</a></p>&mdash; King Of Pop News &amp; Chart data (@NMusis) <a href="https://twitter.com/NMusis/status/1179423850704097280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2. Oktober 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Due to unprecedented demand for tickets to the *Official* European Premier of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SquareOne?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SquareOne</a> -MJINNOCENT have had to change to a bigger screening venue - Charlotte Street Hotel Cinema - Charlotte Street, W1T 1RJ *Important Notice* Additional tickets on sale from 10am Oct 3rd UK time <a href="https://t.co/pa5vGDYwI8">pic.twitter.com/pa5vGDYwI8</a></p>&mdash; #MJINNOCENT Official (@MJInnocentUK) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJInnocentUK/status/1179438931080830976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2. Oktober 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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I don't know if this great podcastepisode about the Square One premier was already been posted here!


The quote from John Ziegler "The innocent people are the most difficult ones to defend" let me get thaughtful a lot!

He is right with this esspecially when it comes to the MJ cases.
Innocent people have to tell the truth no matter how hard, ugly and unbeliveable it is!
But guilty people can construct and twist the best beliveable story where everthing adds up as best as possible to get not convicted of the crime.
When Michael would be gulty in Wades case and wanted to use him to win the 2005 case, he never would let tell Wade that he slept with him together in one bed on so many occasions.
But the fact that Michael let tell Wade everthing in such details and never made any try according to the defence team to influence anything of what Wade said in his very looooooong testimony shows that he is innocent!
I have not read how people in the cortroom described how Michael behaved during Wades testimony but I would think he appered far from nervous and afraid!
 
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myosotis

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I can't find a thread for the French fans' legal case, but the October hearing has apparently been deferred to December.

(From fans on Twitter).
The hearing of the trial of the 3 French associations against J. Safechuck and W. Robson in Orleans is postponed until December 5th
 

La74

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I can't find a thread for the French fans' legal case, but the October hearing has apparently been deferred to December.

(From fans on Twitter).
The hearing of the trial of the 3 French associations against J. Safechuck and W. Robson in Orleans is postponed until December 5th
I think maybe we should create a separate thread for that in this Exposing LN subforum.
 

myosotis

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If this is true, every MJ fan is going to walk away from this production, and from the Estate....

Re the MJ Musical, someone who has knowledge of the rehearsals has written on Twitter:

... ''the last draft had it all structured within a single rehearsal of the 'Dangerous' tour, and most of it is focusing on the psychological/ social/ cultural issues Jackson was facing.

Since the release of 'Leaving Neverland' they've gone deep into rewrites of how to refocus the story to be inclusive of the information presented in the documentary. And Nottage is a firm believer in the boys, so I'm sure everything will come out politically acceptable.''

I hope Paris or another member here will see this Tweet and add a picture of it here.

The original comment was written on a messageboard on Broadwayworld.com (near the bottom of the 'page'. )

https://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.php?thread=1117709&page=4
 
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Elton-Cetera

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I wish someone (maybe one of the Emmy winners) had gone on a tirade against Leaving Neverland on stage after giving their acceptance speech.
 

Anna

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People should stop worrying so much about the musical. The Estate need Michael to have a good reputation so they can make money. They're not going to further tarnish his image by making a show revolving around lies about abuse. That would make no financial sense and they would alienate the whole fan base. Their public focus is always on Michael's art and humanitarianism.
 

Mikky Dee

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People should stop worrying so much about the musical. The Estate need Michael to have a good reputation so they can make money. They're not going to further tarnish his image by making a show revolving around lies about abuse. That would make no financial sense and they would alienate the whole fan base. Their public focus is always on Michael's art and humanitarianism.

I agree completely. A musical that highlights child abuse allegations makes NO sense whatsoever......from what I've read, it will shine a light on one period in Michael's life (the Dangerous Era). I have no doubt it will place prominence on his musical genius and his interest in commentary on social issues during those years, in particular. Personal views held and comments made by the writers behind the show have no bearing on what they will come up with, in a professional sense.
 

myosotis

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Mikky Dee;4270887 said:
I agree completely. A musical that highlights child abuse allegations makes NO sense whatsoever......from what I've read, it will shine a light on one period in Michael's life (the Dangerous Era). I have no doubt it will place prominence on his musical genius and his interest in commentary on social issues during those years, in particular. Personal views held and comments made by the writers behind the show have no bearing on what they will come up with, in a professional sense.

Of course I hope you are right, but this is a very 'uncompromising' playwright:

When prompted to share what she tells her playwriting students on the first day of class at Columbia University, Nottage offers up a message for the theatre community at large. &#8220;I think that theatre is uniquely in the position to be at the vanguard of change, because it is a communal art form and is an art form that demands an immediate transaction. It demands a conversation between what&#8217;s on stage and the audience. It demands that there be some form of response.&#8221;

Nottage says: &#8220;It&#8217;s really important that we reflect what we&#8217;re seeing in culture at large in ways that are truthful, raw and honest, and that we resist the critics who want us to be gentler in the ways that we confront the things that trouble us. For a generation, there&#8217;s been a lot of pushback against plays that are political or grapple with issues in real time, in favour of plays that explore culture in metaphor. There are times that demand a very direct conversation. I think we&#8217;re in that moment now.&#8221;

https://www.thestage.co.uk/features...the-position-to-be-at-the-vanguard-of-change/


and

It&#8217;s a challenging theme for a family musical, but Nottage points to similarly confrontational recent hits like Dear Evan Hansen, which explored teenage suicide. &#8220;There will be a place for the light fluffy musical, but I think the ones that have staying power are the ones that are really in conversation with the times.&#8221;

These conversations are especially heated when it comes to her writing involvement on the Michael Jackson musical Don&#8217;t Stop &#8217;Til You Get Enough, due to open on Broadway next summer. When I ask her about it, she sounds weary. &#8220;Yeah, we&#8217;re still forging ahead. We will see the complexity of the character, and that is all I will say right now about that.&#8221; In the light of the allegations of child abuse that have long surrounded Jackson, &#8220;complexity&#8221; seems to be an understatement. But when I ask her more, she says: &#8220;I grew up listening to Michael Jackson, he left his physical imprint on a lot of us.&#8221;

It&#8217;s a memorable image: you can&#8217;t choose the influences that form and shape you, but you can interrogate them. Wherever Nottage&#8217;s eclectic work sits on the spectrum from fluff to grit, it&#8217;s rewarding for its refusal to let its audience be innocent.

https://www.ft.com/content/867fb222-83ac-11e9-a7f0-77d3101896ec
 
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somewhereinthedark

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Mikky Dee;4270887 said:
I agree completely. A musical that highlights child abuse allegations makes NO sense whatsoever......from what I've read, it will shine a light on one period in Michael's life (the Dangerous Era). I have no doubt it will place prominence on his musical genius and his interest in commentary on social issues during those years, in particular. Personal views held and comments made by the writers behind the show have no bearing on what they will come up with, in a professional sense.

Great post! I agree that a musical that highlights child abuse makes NO SENSE, and there is no way in hell that the Estate would allow that. What makes anyone believe that they would agree to something like that? The Estate has ABSOLUTE control over what will be released in that musical. Their job is to present Michael in a positive light. That is the reason they are fighting so hard against HBO. Let&#8217;s think before we believe that Michael&#8217;s estate would allow a negative musical to be done.
 

Alh21

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When is square one going to be on YouTube, I thought it was released today?
 

Amaya

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I think the best case scenario is we get a scene that leaves things open to audience interpretation, and hopefully it's not presented in a way that slants towards only the "he's guilty" interpretation. It wouldn't be great, but it'd be a lot better than "He's guilty and that's that".

Maybe the Estate realized they screwed up defending her and tried to negotiate the re-writes and/or showed Nottage some arguments as to why he's innocent. I'm trying to remain hopeful but it's really hard.
 

OnirMJ

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I think the best case scenario is we get a scene that leaves things open to audience interpretation, and hopefully it's not presented in a way that slants towards only the "he's guilty" interpretation. It wouldn't be great, but it'd be a lot better than "He's guilty and that's that".

Maybe the Estate realized they screwed up defending her and tried to negotiate the re-writes and/or showed Nottage some arguments as to why he's innocent. I'm trying to remain hopeful but it's really hard.

She needs to be fired. Period.
 

nextbigthing56

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WOW. I’m speechless. Square One is absolutely by far the best documentary that has come out regarding the allegations.
 

ozemouze

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nextbigthing56;4270998 said:
WOW. I&#8217;m speechless. Square One is absolutely by far the best documentary that has come out regarding the allegations.
Quite impressive in terms of organising and presenting the facts. Plus I'm so glad that the involvement of Gutierrez and Rodney Allen is finally adddressed.

Also that it deals more deeply with MJ's skin condition - not that it's anything new, but it's really an important part of his "re-humanisation" as sadly there are quite a lot of people out there who still don't get it (or don't want to get it).

Oh and to include that Australian interview with La Toya where the reporter became suspicous - that was new even for me, and is quite important because it's still one of the haters' last "proofs", so everything explaining the circumstances of the situation is crucial and this is certainly doing so.
 
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terrell

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Quite impressive in terms of organising and presenting the facts. Plus I'm so glad that the involvement of Gutierrez and Rodney Allen is finally adddressed.

Also that it deals more deeply with MJ's skin condition - not that it's anything new, but it's really an important part of his "re-humanisation" as sadly there are quite a lot of people out there who still don't get it (or don't want to get it).

Oh and to include that Australian interview with La Toya where the reporter became suspicous - that was new even for me, and is quite important because it's still one of the haters' last "proofs", so everything explaining the circumstances of the situation is crucial and this is certainly doing so.
You can not care about people who do not want to get it. that means they have issues with something in their own lives, racist, bias, or just dumb; however, MOST people will listen and be glad to see this (fans or no fan). This guy used facts and put all the pieces together.
 

ozemouze

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You can not care about people who do not want to get it. that means they have issues with something in their own lives, racist, bias, or just dumb; however, MOST people will listen and be glad to see this (fans or no fan). This guy used facts and put all the pieces together.
I agree that most "neutral" people aren't close-minded, but they won't investigate by themselves either, so Square One should reach them, but how? It won't be shown at Sundance (even though it should be, as it's indeed independent) or on HBO, obviosuly, but neither their competitors would dare to touch it. So even though I'm quite sure documentaries like this could convince the public, the question still remains: how could they reach this wilder audience?!
 

TheChosenOne

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I agree. We need push it on all platforms. We need to watch it so that the YouTube algorhythm (sp??) can do what it does.
 
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