Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

terrell

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This whole fiasco definitely made me question things even more than I used to. Sucks, because it takes the fun out of watching documentaries when you have to double check everything anyway. Might as well skip the documentary and research the topic myself.

I agree.
 

Mechaspiderman

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I'd like to share with you some things I've had on my mind lately. I've been wondering if there's a chance these accusers will ever admit to lying. For Wade, I think he's too far gone. He shamelessly monetizes the undeserved attention and loves being in the spotlight, there's not an ounce of guilt in him. It might be because he blames MJ for his personal faliures that he's been able to keep this charade for so long, and if that's the case I wouldn't expect any admission from him.
Safechuck is extremely uncomfortable whenever he's interviewed, even when journalists bend over backwards to accomodate him and Wade. I may be reaching, but it seems like he's scared that it went so far and he never signed up for all of this. Like LN was supposed to be just a quick cash grab and then he can move on with his life. On the other side, admitting to such a disgusting lie would require courage and Safechuck strikes me as a weak man, so he'd probably rather just have it all blow over.
Do you think any of them will ever come forward and admit it was all a lie?
 

Thriller_MJ

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I'd like to share with you some things I've had on my mind lately. I've been wondering if there's a chance these accusers will ever admit to lying. For Wade, I think he's too far gone. He shamelessly monetizes the undeserved attention and loves being in the spotlight, there's not an ounce of guilt in him. It might be because he blames MJ for his personal faliures that he's been able to keep this charade for so long, and if that's the case I wouldn't expect any admission from him.
Safechuck is extremely uncomfortable whenever he's interviewed, even when journalists bend over backwards to accomodate him and Wade. I may be reaching, but it seems like he's scared that it went so far and he never signed up for all of this. Like LN was supposed to be just a quick cash grab and then he can move on with his life. On the other side, admitting to such a disgusting lie would require courage and Safechuck strikes me as a weak man, so he'd probably rather just have it all blow over.
Do you think any of them will ever come forward and admit it was all a lie?

If anyone is going to crack it will be Safechuck. I've watched interviews him, Robson and Reed and he is almost squirming at any intergeneration from a reporter or journalistic. Reed coached them both on what to say about there "abuse" based on his previous work with child abuse so he had an upper hand in telling them what to say and things. It'll all come tumbling down eventually.
 

PoP

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I would laugh out of enjoyment if STABchuck cracks and can’t handle karma biting him in the @$$.
 

myosotis

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If anyone is going to crack it will be Safechuck. I've watched interviews him, Robson and Reed and he is almost squirming at any intergeneration from a reporter or journalistic. Reed coached them both on what to say about there "abuse" based on his previous work with child abuse so he had an upper hand in telling them what to say and things. It'll all come tumbling down eventually.

I think he's too scared of Robson and Reed (and possibly his wife)..

maxresdefault.jpg
 
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How am I still seeing people (****tards) on Twitter that go "but eh...Michael did it though?" in response to Taj no less when he asks that Oprah apologizes to his family. How sway? Someone tell me that. It infuriates me to no end how these idiots say it with such certainty when there is zero proof and tons of proof of the agenda of these two men.

It shouldn't get me so worked up anymore, but I just can't believe people just say that. I throw them on block immediately too from now on.
 

myosotis

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Great to see this post by Taj getting so many likes and retweets....50k likes to date. :)


04X3sx5.jpg
 

Mechaspiderman

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If anyone is going to crack it will be Safechuck. I've watched interviews him, Robson and Reed and he is almost squirming at any intergeneration from a reporter or journalistic. Reed coached them both on what to say about there "abuse" based on his previous work with child abuse so he had an upper hand in telling them what to say and things. It'll all come tumbling down eventually.

That's what I'm betting. The difference between the trials and LN is that the accusers are fully exposed to the public. There's no option to just go off the grid, so Safechuck can't just count on returning to normal life either way. I'd love for him to find enough conscience to tell the truth, but if he ever does that it will be probably because he'll realize people, especially MJ fans, don't forget that easily and the consequences of partaking in LN will be too much for him to handle.

How am I still seeing people (****tards) on Twitter that go "but eh...Michael did it though?" in response to Taj no less when he asks that Oprah apologizes to his family. How sway? Someone tell me that. It infuriates me to no end how these idiots say it with such certainty when there is zero proof and tons of proof of the agenda of these two men.

It shouldn't get me so worked up anymore, but I just can't believe people just say that. I throw them on block immediately too from now on.

I feel you, it's infuriating how they are just a few clicks away from credible sources on the subject but willingly choose to believe that bullcrap. It's not even laziness, they spend time and energy into that false narrative. At this point it's just bad will, they simply want MJ to be guilty, be it due to jealousy, intolerance, or racism. I'm not saying that lightly, accusations like that carry weight, but if I hadn't seen the crap some people spew I wouldn't choose those adjectives.
 

ScreenOrigami

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Mechaspiderman;4290346 said:
I'd like to share with you some things I've had on my mind lately. I've been wondering if there's a chance these accusers will ever admit to lying. For Wade, I think he's too far gone. He shamelessly monetizes the undeserved attention and loves being in the spotlight, there's not an ounce of guilt in him. It might be because he blames MJ for his personal faliures that he's been able to keep this charade for so long, and if that's the case I wouldn't expect any admission from him.
Safechuck is extremely uncomfortable whenever he's interviewed, even when journalists bend over backwards to accomodate him and Wade. I may be reaching, but it seems like he's scared that it went so far and he never signed up for all of this. Like LN was supposed to be just a quick cash grab and then he can move on with his life. On the other side, admitting to such a disgusting lie would require courage and Safechuck strikes me as a weak man, so he'd probably rather just have it all blow over.
Do you think any of them will ever come forward and admit it was all a lie?

I agree with your observations.

If I’m not mistaken, at least Wade could actually go to jail for committing perjury when he admits he lied under oath in his 2016 deposition. Not sure what the limitation period is, but I think someone mentioned 5 years (?). So, if that’s the case, he will have to sit it out for at least another year.

But in my opinion, Wade shows the behavior of a sociopath. I think he completely lacks empathy. So he will probably never feel remorse and come forward to admit his lies and apologize. I believe he will only admit it if it’s to his own advantage, and I don’t see that happening anytime soon. He’s in way too deep now. Also, something about him feels really off, as if he’s been working towards making himself believe his own story.

James, on the other hand, probably wishes he could turn back time and make all of this go away. I don’t think he would jump on Wade’s bandwagon again if he had the choice. He’s definitely the weakest link in the chain.

Reed will throw his protagonists under the bus for money. He’ll try to convince the public that he was fooled by Wade and James, as soon as someone makes a good offer. It’s his only possible way out of this. It’s just a matter of time, in my opinion. He lives in a bubble where MJ’s “guilt” is perceived as a fact, and in typical Reed manner, he didn’t research and completely overestimated the support that this idea has in the general public worldwide. He didn’t expect the massive backlash, especially since previous filmmakers usually got away with slandering MJ. But he took it that one critical step too far and supported claims that no rational person would ever believe. So he’s going to admit his protagonists’ lies at some point, and try to make it look like he was duped.

And then there’s Finaldi, the player in this game who usually gets overlooked. He has nothing to lose. If he wins the case (Not gonna happen, of course.), he gets his cut. If he doesn’t, he’ll argue that the “powerful Estate” somehow manipulated the outcome of the case. In the meantime, I think, his presence in the media brings him business that no paid advertising ever could. In my opinion, he’s the one who’s actually profiting from all of this, no matter what.

But he probably also thought it would be much easier. At some point it must have become obvious to him, that these guys have been making the whole story up and that it’s unlikely that they win the case. So he has good reasons to drag this whole affair out for as long as possible to keep his name in the media. Of course, if any of the other three comes forward and admits it was all lies, he wouldn’t look good, so that’s the one thing he doesn’t want to happen. Thus, he’s upholding the illusion that they can win the case so that none of the others crack.

All of this is just my opinion, of course. :)
 
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myosotis

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^ and I think a lot of non-fans think along the lines that 'no-one would be willing to lie to that extent and undergo such media scrutiny, even for money', without admitting to themselves that there is almost 'no' media scrutiny, at least in MJ's case, because of '93 and '05. And there are 'no' penalties for lying. (I'm sure Wade is right in thinking that the MJ Estate won't suggest any punishment for 'lying in 2005', because a) he was telling the truth then and b) he was supporting MJ.) And there are also 'no'penalties for defaming the dead. So for MJ it's been a 'perfect storm'.

I'm encouraged that so many people have investigated Tara Read so thoroughly, and shared all her background on Twitter. Her story of abuse by Biden is pretty much thoroughly debunked by now. So there's someone who was prepared to lie, and miscalculated that the 'Me Too' movement would protect her. We just need the same media scrutiny for R and S now. And I have a feeling that in the run up to the end of this new stage of their cases things won't be so easy and they may see more challenges than earlier. Finaldi and Reed can bluster on and hope to carry the media with them, but the scales are starting to weigh against them largely due to the efforts of fans constantly exposing their lies in videos, blogs and posts on social media.
 

ozemouze

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ScreenOrigami;4290392 said:
And then there’s Finaldi, the player in this game who usually gets overlooked. He has nothing to lose. If he wins the case (Not gonna happen, of course.), he gets his cut. If he doesn’t, he’ll argue that the “powerful Estate” somehow manipulated the outcome of the case. In the meantime, I think, his presence in the media brings him business that no paid advertising ever could. In my opinion, he’s the one who’s actually profiting from all of this, no matter what.

I agree, thanks for pointing this out. He's perfectly fine even without winning as long as he can profit from it PR wise.

I don't think anyone will ever confess though. In the beginning Safechuck seemed nervous and therefor the weakest link, but he got used to his victim role quickly. He posed like a star at the Emmy (or whatever it was) and gladly promotes himself with sad faces on social media. He was completely unknown/forgotten until last year and now seems to be enjoying his newly found "fame".

For the Robsons (including the mother) blaming MJ for everything is escaping responsibility and a lifelong excuse for their failures. If MJ is a monster, it's not about them being an awful mother/mediocre dancer anymore. With these benefits lying isn't a hard task for them, on the contrary, it's very convenient to project their problems (family, carrier, mental health) onto MJ (an outside person).

So in addition to financial motives there's a strong psychological one as well. After repeated failures/being a nobody they are now getting recognition and are celebrated for their "bravery", and it's without any risk as no one in MSM will ever challenge them or ask them hard questions (and they know it). They are given a free pass on everything, just because of this farce - why would they tell the truth, lose all this and gain nothing?

But even if for some strange reason they would like to confess, I don't think they would be allowed. They are too deep into this, and not alone, there are others involved and interested behind the scenes, with power.
 

ozemouze

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^ and I think a lot of non-fans think along the lines that 'no-one would be willing to lie to that extent and undergo such media scrutiny, even for money', without admitting to themselves that there is almost 'no' media scrutiny, at least in MJ's case, because of '93 and '05.

This is such a failed premise though (independently from MJ). People lie and pretend for various reasons: mental health issues, wanting attention, revenge, money, fame, etc. There are cases when people are manipulated into believing things by improper police investigation methods or psychological misconduct. There are real victims who blame someone innocent, because they are projecting unconsciously if it would be too hard to accuse the real abuser, e.g. a close family member (interesting that this is a possibility that the French psychologist lady insisted on in that hilarious French program with Reed).

And you're right, they weren't under any kind of scrutiny, on the contrary, they were celebrated and protected, given an Oprah special and every possible promotion, including bought awards.

MJ on the other hand was never given the benefit of the doubt, the MSM was more than happy to accept the accusations as truth against him already in 93, without caring too much about the facts.
 

ScreenOrigami

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I’d like to add that many non-fans don’t believe the lies. They just don’t take to Twitter and talk about it because – well, they’re not interested in MJ enough to get involved with anything outside listening to Billie Jean when it comes up on the radio. Most people around me are like that. I was like that, too, but I also can’t stand injustice, that’s why I began to speak up, and I only became a fan in the process. :D

At this point, I know the court testimonies better than the songs from the J5 era. :D
 

terrell

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NatureCriminal7896

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I'm not a fan of trump either but i'm glad he been defending MJ also he's is right about fake news. trump is a lair but he is right about the media.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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i hope this okay.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is some more evidence of that December 1993 pic of the train station really being taken in December 1993. <a href="https://t.co/AhKNJt2Ao0">pic.twitter.com/AhKNJt2Ao0</a></p>&mdash; Justice for The Falsely Accused (@JuliaBerkowitz1) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/status/1262240618329395200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ChrisC

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I understand the article takes a look at the reaction very generally. But I feel it doesn't tell the full story on the radio situation. In the United Kingdom major radio companies removed Michael from their playlists and on some stations this situation remains.

There are three major UK nationwide radio networks. The BBC. Bauer Media. Global.

Bauer is home to stations (relevant to the topic of MJ music) as Absolute 80s and Magic - while I am not 100% on this, I think Michael's music was removed from these stations in March 2019. Interestingly, Bauer is home to my local oldies station Clyde 2 where Michael is still getting played.

Global has stations such as Smooth Radio, Heart and Heart 80s. Again I'm not certain about this but Michael has either been entirely withdrawn from these stations or is playing at a massively reduced capacity.

On the BBC it's interesting. In March 2019 a story ran in the UK that BBC Radio had banned Michael Jackson's music. It was false and I believe planted by someone from the LN machine. All the other stations previously mentioned began to withdraw Michael's music in the days that followed. The BBC then stated that the article was false and Michael's music had not been banned. However by this time there were already hundreds of column inches generated around this issue, and plenty of discussion both publicly and behind closed doors - which was exactly the intent of the false story - and of course decisions taken by the other stations in lieu of the BBC's supposed decision. So Michael's music remained on BBC Radio 2 - the most listened to station in the UK - but there's a big downside. According to research recently done by Mike Smallcombe, MJ plays on BBC Radio 2 dropped 65% following the airing of Leaving Neverland. Michael was played on average 286 times per year between 2015 and 2018, and in the year following Leaving Neverland only 99 times. Mike did note however that it appears the frequency with which Michael is played is recovering - basing it on partial year data and projected plays.

Michael Jackson plays on UK radio took a substantial hit because of Leaving Neverland, the effects of which continue to be felt 16 months on from Sundance.
 
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elusive moonwalker

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Just aswell the industry is dieing. My bro has worked in it all his life as a presenter/producer.commercia radio has had its day due to the lack of advertisment revenue as everything has gone online. Ontop of course of streaming. Its all soundbites as in the scheme of things mjs streams etc are big.so while it may make headlines in reality it means very little and makes no difference to mj success
 

JichaelMackson

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Well it's safe to say MJ's legacy took a hit but it's no knock out. Depends on how this Robson/Safechuck saga ends, who knows what's next in store but at the moment it looks like he will recover yet again.

Any other artist/celebrity by now would have been dead and buried if they had been through half of what MJ has been through. Michael Jackson still stands, it's incredible. Hopefully the Estate will start a campaign in 2021 to clear MJ's name and deliver the final upper cut to anyone with bad intentions.
 

terrell

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I understand the article takes a look at the reaction very generally. But I feel it doesn't tell the full story on the radio situation. In the United Kingdom major radio companies removed Michael from their playlists and on some stations this situation remains.

There are three major UK nationwide radio networks. The BBC. Bauer Media. Global.

Bauer is home to stations (relevant to the topic of MJ music) as Absolute 80s and Magic - while I am not 100% on this, I think Michael's music was removed from these stations in March 2019. Interestingly, Bauer is home to my local oldies station Clyde 2 where Michael is still getting played.

Global has stations such as Smooth Radio, Heart and Heart 80s. Again I'm not certain about this but Michael has either been entirely withdrawn from these stations or is playing at a massively reduced capacity.

On the BBC it's interesting. In March 2019 a story ran in the UK that BBC Radio had banned Michael Jackson's music. It was false and I believe planted by someone from the LN machine. All the other stations previously mentioned began to withdraw Michael's music in the days that followed. The BBC then stated that the article was false and Michael's music had not been banned. However by this time there were already hundreds of column inches generated around this issue, and plenty of discussion both publicly and behind closed doors - which was exactly the intent of the false story - and of course decisions taken by the other stations in lieu of the BBC's supposed decision. So Michael's music remained on BBC Radio 2 - the most listened to station in the UK - but there's a big downside. According to research recently done by Mike Smallcombe, MJ plays on BBC Radio 2 dropped 65% following the airing of Leaving Neverland. Michael was played on average 286 times per year between 2015 and 2018, and in the year following Leaving Neverland only 99 times. Mike did note however that it appears the frequency with which Michael is played is recovering - basing it on partial year data and projected plays.

Michael Jackson plays on UK radio took a substantial hit because of Leaving Neverland, the effects of which continue to be felt 16 months on from Sundance.
That is the UK which I think they already had something bias against MJ anyway long before any accusation came along; however, the rest of the world, MJ is still played (America never stop-maybe some hold in the wall back wood station that someone never heard of or who have a few listeners might have stop playing his music for a minute but overall, in America, MJ music never stop. There is a commercial that plays ABC that never stop playing either). I still say Michael is doing great despite being gone over 11 years and the age he would have been now if he was still alive. Many current artists do not have Michael success on MJ's worst day. And if anyone has turned their back on MJ due to these lies, then he/she can go (let the door hit them on his/her way out). Again for any TRUE FAN or Fair minded person, there is too much info, the way MJ was Vetted, what he has gone through, and what these people try to do to him to try to make him look guilty, to know this all is BS and anyone with a brain can it; if someone does not see it, he/she does not want to see it; however, life is funny when someone is quick to pass judgement of lies onto someone else, he/she may find themselves in the same situation of dealing with false allegations (you do not have to either let no one in your bed room to be lied about abusing someone or what if it is his/her family member being falsely accused like a father, mother, son/daughter, brother/sister, etc). Look at Oprah now talking about "false allegation and how it hurts her. REALLY Oprah? When it is someone else, Oprah was ready to be the judge/jury/District Attorney. That is how/what some people do. It is fun when it is done to someone else until his/her day come.
 
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Lightbringer

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Lets vote!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Did Michael Jackson do it?</p>&mdash; The Rick Ross fan (@therickrossfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/therickrossfan/status/1262796218742329352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ScreenOrigami

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Lightbringer;4290757 said:
Lets vote!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Did Michael Jackson do it?</p>&#8212; The Rick Ross fan (@therickrossfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/therickrossfan/status/1262796218742329352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Honest question: Why? To give these people the attention they&#8217;re seeking?
 
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