Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I'm waiting for this too, I'd love to have an open FACTUAL debate with someone on this subject.

For some reason every time one gets started it turns into jokes and brings up how weird Michael was etc.

Like weird is an illegal activity

Yeah, sadly this sounds all too familiar to me. Honestly whenever I'm around people that I don't know I'm afraid to bring up MJ because like you said, there's always gonna be a joke about his appearance or of course the allegations.

What JC08 should keep in mind is that even though we are fans of MJ, we also have done our research. Something that can't be said about many other fanbases I'm sure. We started this research because we saw how messed up things were, how the media never really reported on facts. Just look at the freaking trial. Take Aphrodite Jones for example, used to be a hater and wanted MJ locked up until she saw how the media was portraying him and the trial and she saw it was a clear conspiracy against the man, and still is.

People easily discredit the things we say because "hey, we're just the fans." of course we are gonna defend him to no end, right? **** no.
 

Gwyneira

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I don't stand for Michael, and I don't stand for Wade Robson or James Shafechuck. I stand for the truth. Is it so hard to understand or am I, once again, gonna be qualified as a "troll" or a "hater", having an "agenda" (this word I just learned thanks to some of you) ?

Some of you here first choose what to believe, and then interpret every piece of information so it can feed the camp they chose to be in. This is not seeking the truth, this is protecting someone at all costs. Like an army at war.

I know we are on a fan platform, but this is not a fan discussion, this is a fu..ing dramatic subject. I think that if you want to talk about it you must be able to forget that you are a fan. If you think this is impossible, wich I understand, then please don't talk about this because this is too serious.

You can talk about it from many standpoints. Most of us will talk about it from the standpoint of having believed in his innocence for a very long time. It doesn't make us blind to the facts, but it does create a certain bias I guess. Like a lot of people talk about the subject from the bias that Michael was obviously guilty. It's impossible for these two parties to discuss with one another.
I myself try to switch sides, to play devil's advocate to myself (most of the discussing I do by myself, I guess), but the truth is - there are very few facts. The alleged acts took place such a long time ago, if there was any physical evidence it would have been found during the trial, and yet the lack of such evidence isn't proof in and of itself. So it IS an extremely difficult subject. What can be done is to poke holes in the accusers' narrative and point out flaws in their motive (which the fans are doing) and build a case for the overwhelmingly positive character of Michael (which the family is doing). Unfortunately, neither will prove anything. It is possible to be a generous and charming individual and also have a very dark side which only few will have been made privy to. It is even possible that the accusers are shitty people overall and money hungry and don't remember everything correctly.. but still telling the truth. But at least it's (or feels like) doing something. I'm confused about what you want to discuss here if it's not those things? It's not like the accusers are providing any facts themselves. It's just a story. Where is this truth you stand for?
 

Spike J

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So now it has became a lot easier to question their motives: If they try a civil suit their credibility is out the window immediately. They made sure it wasn't about the money
 

AliCat

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I watched the first 8 minutes of the documentary, "The Paedophili Hunter" and had to stop. The language was way too stong, too pornographic for my mere sensibilities. The few men they were nabbing made me realize one thing and one thing only. That Michael Jackson, while filming the short film, "Say, Say, Say" with Paul and Linda McCartney, that Michael fell in love with the property and that he bought in 1988 and renamed it Neverland, because he was hatching a plan to molest boys. That's when this whole mastermind of molesting boys was hatched. Even though we see in "Say, Say, Say" that Paul and Linda and Michael take the money that they earned and help out an Orphanage. That Michael isn't really about helping children, nope, he was all about being a mastermind to molest children.

Michael took these huge steps to insure he'd have so many children coming to Neverland and could have the pick of the litter. He wasn't a master of song and dance, putting on the most fantastic Shows anyone has ever watched in his giant Concerts. No it was all for molesting children.

The video that Paul McCartney put together of home movies of Michael Jackson socialising with his family, his wife and children that you can watch right below these words, were really of Michael salivating looking at Paul and Linda's children. All because he couldn't wait for that perfect moment when his vision would come true. Michael would buy a big estate, put an amusement park on the property, because Michael had a hard time going out in public without being mobbed, which Michael shared with those less fortunate than he was.

Michael only ever had the notion of developing Neverland into his private world of molesting children. Nope, not over at Hayvenhurst did Michael hatch his scheme. Even though Hayvenhurst is where he started the mini Neverland, with animals and such. He waited and his dream came true. Is Dan and Wade and Jimmy kidding?! This is their narrative of getting the world to believe this is the very essence of the man, Michael Jackson. That he plotted to become the greatest Entertainer who ever lived because he wanted to amass riches so he could buy a secluded, private Estate, build an amusement park on it and a train and a theater, complete with rooms for children who had health issues and all of this to deceive everyone so Michael could molest boys. Do they really think people are that naive?
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I've been a fan of MJ ever since I can remember, I'm now 36 and started doing my research when the Neverland raid happened. At that time I had no actual real knowledge of everything. So I read up on the 90s case, which was incredibly eye opening for me. I just was too young in the 90s to even grasp that.

I'm still a huge fan, but believe it or not, I'm not here in full defense of the man because I'm a fan. I'm in full defense because I firmly believe with all my heart, without a shadow of doubt that he's innocent and that a great injustice is being done right now and has been done throughout his whole life.

I'm not gonna write another wall of text. Countless of reasons have been given here to believe the man never did anything to a child. In fact what has become even more clear is how it's absolutely a conspiracy against this man. I'm not gonna give you more examples of that, for this thread is full of them. As I said before...

Had either Safechuck or Robson been a normal individual, with no Ill intensions, had their first move not been a stab at a easy money grab (suing estate for money) had they not defended and praised him to the high heavens for all these years, had their stories not been full of inconsistencies, contradictions and flat out bullshit, had a lot of the shit claimed in that documentary NOT been based off the banned book, of which MJ won the lawsuit against the author from, a book full of disgusting shit which basically just was the author's fantasy.....then you wouldn't have seen me saying that I am 100% sure they are liars. Had one or both of them have a credible story and no shady things about them (making them just as worse as the Arvizos) it wouldn't have been so easy to just yell "nah, bullshit." it wouldn't have been so black and white basically.

I would have then probably said to wait for a trial, if there's gonna be one. I'm not gonna say I would instantly believe he did it, but neither would I so easily discredit it.

Fact of the matter is that shady and bullshit is their middle name. It's just that simple.
You bet me to it.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So now it has became a lot easier to question their motives: If they try a civil suit their credibility is out the window immediately. They made sure it wasn't about the money
They already did a civil suit and lost TWICE and now on appeal. Like I say, conartists con. I guess because I have deal with many my field of work, I know the actions.
 

dmehta

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I'm gonna go into hibernation when this s*** airs on TV. It's on a major TV station and will get massive coverage.
I just have a vision of that POS Piers Morgan talking about it with his usual disgusting rhetoric. I can't deal with it.

However, if there's any protests or anything in the UK then I will definitely attend.

Im pretty sure Piers Morgan is a fan. When he had his chat show in the US he interviewed John Branca and some Jackson family members IIRC, and he spoke positively of Mike. He said he interviewed him years ago and had a good experience.

That obviously could all change after this doc airs.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Yeah, sadly this sounds all too familiar to me. Honestly whenever I'm around people that I don't know I'm afraid to bring up MJ because like you said, there's always gonna be a joke about his appearance or of course the allegations.

What JC08 should keep in mind is that even though we are fans of MJ, we also have done our research. Something that can't be said about many other fanbases I'm sure. We started this research because we saw how messed up things were, how the media never really reported on facts. Just look at the freaking trial. Take Aphrodite Jones for example, used to be a hater and wanted MJ locked up until she saw how the media was portraying him and the trial and she saw it was a clear conspiracy against the man, and still is.

People easily discredit the things we say because "hey, we're just the fans." of course we are gonna defend him to no end, right? **** no.
Another hater was Geraldo Rivera until he got into the case and saw for himself and changed his mind and became a hard defender of MJ's.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Im pretty sure Piers Morgan is a fan. When he had his chat show in the US he interviewed John Branca and some Jackson family members IIRC, and he spoke positively of Mike. He said he interviewed him years ago and had a good experience.

That obviously could all change after this doc airs.
Yeah it was this interview what Piers Morgan did with Michael and is absolut understandable that he changed his opinion after it: https://youtu.be/Z0I4ukeiLBo
It takes a little while til the recorded part comes.
Its maybe good to listen to it again in these days.
 
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dam2040

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I am becoming more and more convinced that the people so loudly throwing stones at Michael are pedophiles themselves. Dan Reed’s language regarding this is very worrying and leads me to believe there is something very sinister happening here. In no circumstances should these relationships be explained or normalised, if they were real.

I also love Mr Reed’s you haven’t seen it yet comment. We’ve only seen the court documents for the last 20 odd years, lol. There’s nothing new in this documentary it has just been displayed in a very graphic way to convince viewers Michael was the worst child predator known to man. Evil to the core.

I pray every night that justice will prevail.
 

Carmour260

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dam2040;4238920 said:
I am becoming more and more convinced that the people so loudly throwing stones at Michael are pedophiles themselves. Dan Reed’s language regarding this is very worrying and leads me to believe there is something very sinister happening here. In no circumstances should these relationships be explained or normalised, if they were real.

I also love Mr Reed’s you haven’t seen it yet comment. We’ve only seen the court documents for the last 20 odd years, lol. There’s nothing new in this documentary it has just been displayed in a very graphic way to convince viewers Michael was the worst child predator known to man. Evil to the core.

I pray every night that justice will prevail.

Those who protest the loudest, are really the ones doing it behind closed doors. I now suspect that Dan Reed could be one
 

dam2040

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Those who protest the loudest, are really the ones doing it behind closed doors. I now suspect that Dan Reed could be one

We saw it for years many journalists who proclaimed MJs guilt were exposed in the MeToo campaign.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We saw it for years many journalists who proclaimed MJs guilt were exposed in the MeToo campaign.
Interesting... can you show me something about this?
Wade Robson ideed started something like me too on dead people.
Many stars should afraid now that this one day happen to them and their Legecy when they are gone.
 
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dam2040

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Interesting... can you show me something about this?

Well harbey weinstein was the big one used his media corps to sell fake MJ stories to cover his tracks and minimise impact

mr weinstein also good friends with hbo programme director I believe many pics online of them together not surprised they commissioned this waste of time at same time his own expose was shown - MJ taking all attention away from this evil rapist
 

Carmour260

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We saw it for years many journalists who proclaimed MJs guilt were exposed in the MeToo campaign.

Exactly! If Michael really did commit those crimes, it would have been exposed way before the MeToo Movement. Dan Reed is trying to use that platform for his own false purposes, and to really hide who he really is. Those types of stories really fascinate him in such a creepy way
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We saw it for years many journalists who proclaimed MJs guilt were exposed in the MeToo campaign.
Look at Bill Oreilly who called MJ a "pervert" on November 18, 2003 with a Newsweek writer; and now look who is the PERVERT and lost his job. I say this Dan Reed has something in his closet.
 

moonchinking

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I feel Piers Morgan would actually take Michael's side tbh. I'd love to see him going off on a rant about these accusers.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Exactly! If Michael really did commit those crimes, it would have been exposed way before the MeToo Movement. Dan Reed is trying to use that platform for his own false purposes, and to really hide who he really is. Those types of stories really fascinate him in such a creepy way
MJ was given no special treatment due to being the biggest star, the most to make money from, viewed as being eccentric, etc. And look who are the true guilty ones.
 

terrell

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StaceyMJ;4238885 said:
Oh yes absolutely. I was talking about the general public who may watch this when it airs. You’d like to think they won’t just lap it up and believe it all without at least exploring the subject a little further. The enormity of actively calling someone what they’re trying to call Michael is in my mind one of if not the worst things somebody can be. It’s massive. That’s why I think the idea of buying ad time when this airs for some sort of rebuttal could be a great idea - target people while their emotions are still raw and fresh and hasn’t faded with time. Strike while the iron is hot so to speak. There has to be something that can be done this too unfair and unjust to continue so one sided!
They need to do it like MJ did with the martin Barshir doc. People were ticked off and it show how dirty he was and the public turned on him. It was good Murray Povick hosted it. Diane Diamond tried to down play but one other host knocked her down.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Those who protest the loudest, are really the ones doing it behind closed doors. I now suspect that Dan Reed could be one
Even on the internet. Do you know some people are paid to go into treading topics to start trouble.
 

terrell

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dam2040;4238920 said:
I am becoming more and more convinced that the people so loudly throwing stones at Michael are pedophiles themselves. Dan Reed’s language regarding this is very worrying and leads me to believe there is something very sinister happening here. In no circumstances should these relationships be explained or normalised, if they were real.

I also love Mr Reed’s you haven’t seen it yet comment. We’ve only seen the court documents for the last 20 odd years, lol. There’s nothing new in this documentary it has just been displayed in a very graphic way to convince viewers Michael was the worst child predator known to man. Evil to the core.

I pray every night that justice will prevail.
And look how he is going after the Jacksons. Dan is trying to lecture the Jacksons on two guys they knew for YEARS unlike his couple months to do this doc.
 

CeyEntertainment

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I truly believe in one thing:

The last few years I'm actually just an active reader, following the news as far as possible.


But this time it was different somehow. It hit me personally a lot!!!
And for exactly this reason, I couldn't stand still and will follow this matter very closely and counteract by all means.
I also believe that not only do I feel that way!


Our love for MJ and believe in his innocence is just too strong!

And that's our force!
We owe that MJ and his children!
Now is the time to unite and fight back strongly!

So, let's get ready for the final round. Don't be afraid!
Put on your gloves and step into the ring!

@WadeRobson + JamesSafechuck: Take it very seriously!
 
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Carmour260

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Even on the internet. Do you know some people are paid to go into treading topics to start trouble.

Oh, definitely! Even when you could be out there marching for whatever issue you're protesting about, they have actors out there and extremists.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

MJ was given no special treatment due to being the biggest star, the most to make money from, viewed as being eccentric, etc. And look who are the true guilty ones.
The treatment whould be very different til this days when he was born with white skin. I'm absolutly sure in this! It has always racial resons together with others!
I will mention only one subject which I absolutly won't discuss afterwards.
Mostly white people won't accept that a black man (who has not a full black background and had a dark history of slavery) can produce a white child when it is proven that it happens all the time in the world. Even not when they saw Janets baby and some other Jackson siblings!
I don't know if Dan Reed whould have made this documentery when MJ whould be the biggest white superstar.
 
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