Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Well, all that is left to do now is to brace ourselves, and let God take control of what's ahead. This too shall pass, we are stronger than ever. We'll show these fools that evil will not overcome good. Don't dwell on this, keep fighting the battle. We won many of them, but the war is far from over...
we survived a 5 month trial and so forth. And what is great now, we have the internet, facebook, Instagram, etc to combat and show the lies.
 

Carmour260

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

we survived a 5 month trial and so forth. And what is great now, we have the internet, facebook, Instagram, etc to combat and show the lies.

I agree. It's a totally different world out there today than it was back in 2005, even 2009.
 

travis3000

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

If I ran the estate I would immediately buy up all the advertising at Channel 4 in the UK so during the breaks it would all be rebuttals so that people watching it would have an alternative opinion to read. Since this documentary is so one sided... why not? I don't think HBO has advertising so that might not work. But Sony could easily get involved and threaten to pull their material from HBO indefinitely. That might give them some second thoughts.
 

WildStyle

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Basically... "We don't care about lies and credibility. We just care that it is a powerful story in the #MeToo era. Plus, it's Michael Jackson so it's fair game." - HBO

As has been the case for decades... common sense, decency, integrity and facts go out the window when dealing with Michael Jackson.
 

Visions

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Its disheartening to me that its nearly 10 years after this man has passed away and here we are dealing with this bullsh!t again. Only this time Michael isn't here to stand up for himself so we as his fans, his family, his friends have to do it for him. I'm so angry... These three men, and everyone who has jumped on the bandwagon since this documentary coming out. Clearly, have no consideration for Michael's mother, his children, the Jackson family or anyone who loves this man.

It's absolutely ridiculous to me, it's clearly all about money at this point. Michael isn't here, what exactly are they trying to prove? since they've both swore under oath that Michael never touched them, never laid a hand on them in that manner. Michael was investigated for 10+ years and they never found one piece of proof proving otherwise.

Haters, keep hating...

“Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons.” - MJ
 

KOPV

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Honest thoughts guys.. I stumble on people on YouTube that question Michael and so on.

What if he have a place where these people with questions could ask us the questions and bring up why they believe Michael's guilty?

Too slippery? I find a few people that seem to doubt him yet can hold an actual conversation without making fun of his looks and dumb sh** like that.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Honest thoughts guys.. I stumble on people on YouTube that question Michael and so on.

What if he have a place where these people with questions could ask us the questions and bring up why they believe Michael's guilty?

Too slippery? I find a few people that seem to doubt him yet can hold an actual conversation without making fun of his looks and dumb sh** like that.
See, people like that takes this as a joke and do not care.it is just fun and game to them on the internet. I listen and talk to people who clearly wants the true and wants to be informed.
 

Moonwalkeri7

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

This is evil I wish they just dead instead of mj
 

SmoothGangsta

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

"The letter pointing out that the main subjects of our documentary are total liars will not change anything". They can actually get ****ed at this point.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

"The letter pointing out that the main subjects of our documentary are total liars will not change anything". They can actually get ****ed at this point.
When this doc comes out, this letter will have to be read and looked at. Again, if this blows up more, ALL of this will have to be talked about.
 

Kingofpop4ever3000

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This is why the Estate needs to make a response film to this real fast. While I’m grateful for the letter they sent to HBO, they should have known that HBO wasn’t going to care, since HBO announced this almost a month ago alongside the Sundance announcement for it and ever since, they’ve either been trying to defend their decision to Michael’s supporters and fair-minded people or completely ignoring them. The Estate really needs to reach out to Taj and work together with him on his documentary or at least do a response film on their own. The time is over for just hoping things like this will fade away. This is the worst attack on Michael since the trial years. I hope the Estate have something in mind to deal well with the ongoing fallout from this garbage. They’re going to need it because their business is on very thin ice at this point, in my opinion.
 
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G-B_24

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

My wife just said "Oh man did you read what that maid said about MJ?"

Didn't this maid get sued or testify before that she was lying?

The article is from today. Probably got some $$$
 

G-B_24

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

People who don't care much like us just fall for sh**

I am the type of person who will start researching. Most people do not care or will want to take the time to do so. It's disheartening.
 

Lightbringer

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

My wife just said "Oh man did you read what that maid said about MJ?"

Didn't this maid get sued or testify before that she was lying?

The article is from today. Probably got some $$$

In short, that maid Adrian McManus was fired by Michael Jackson for stealing from him, and then sold false stories to the media, and then admitted when under oath it was all lies. Now she is back again like a shark, trying to make more money.

When Michael Jackson's defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau, asked Adrian McManus how many times she'd lied under oath, she told the court, "The whole time," she said. "I believe I didn't tell the truth."

The Michael Jackson coverage has descended into absurdity. Facts and credibility be damned. Part of the embittered "Neverland 5" staff, this maid's testimony and reliability was cut to shreds at 2005 trial. She even admitted lying "the whole time" in a '93 sworn deposition.

Adrian McManus was also part of the "Neverland 5" - a group of petty criminals who tried to sue Michael Jackson for unfair dismissal. They lost their case, and owed MJ $1.5 Million Dollars in costs. McManus, herself, was ordered to pay Michael $35,000 for stealing items from his home.
---
Why anyone would listen to her is baffling.
 
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Lightbringer

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

And this former "maid" was yesterday on grerk tv. A Fan uploaded the video:
https://youtu.be/Vzgu2O0RsKg

Any REAL Michael Jackson fan would not upload that video on youtube. If that "fan" cares more about views on a youtube channel, than that she is providing more coverage for a serial lier that could hurt Michael Jackson legacy - than the individual is not a Michael Jackson fan! Thats just my opinion.
 
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8701girl

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We should pay no mind to the maid
 

Amaya

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

In short, that maid Adrian McManus was fired by Michael Jackson for stealing from him, and then sold false stories to the media, and then admitted when under oath it was all lies. Now she is back again like a shark, trying to make more money.

When Michael Jackson's defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau, asked Adrian McManus how many times she'd lied under oath, she told the court, "The whole time," she said. "I believe I didn't tell the truth."

The Michael Jackson coverage has descended into absurdity. Facts and credibility be damned. Part of the embittered "Neverland 5" staff, this maid's testimony and reliability was cut to shreds at 2005 trial. She even admitted lying "the whole time" in a '93 sworn deposition.

Adrian McManus was also part of the "Neverland 5" - a group of petty criminals who tried to sue Michael Jackson for unfair dismissal. They lost their case, and owed MJ $1.5 Million Dollars in costs. McManus, herself, was ordered to pay Michael $35,000 for stealing items from his home.
---
Why anyone would listen to her is baffling.

Because the general public has likely already forgotten who she was and therefore, this same old shit is all-new to them.

Is this how it was in 2003-2005? Bringing up old stories and presenting them as new? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills... glad to see that letter from the Estate, though.
 

Gwyneira

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Great letter!! The first time I've been proud of the Estate. If no one who has been tooting the "documentary" as gospel publicly concedes to those massive shortcomings it will be an absolute disgrace of purposefully misleading the public. It's a one dimensional story at best. Calling it a documentary, calling it journalism or facts is just plain WRONG.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Is there a direct link to the letter from the estate that I can paste onto Facebook?
 

myosotis

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Is there a direct link to the letter from the estate that I can paste onto Facebook?

Yes. If you look in 'Trials and Tribs' (Forum) there is a list of resources for the legal cases there- apologies I'm currently about to paste something else here so can't link at present.

'Legal Resources' thread on Trials and Tribs Forum page:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-discussion)-Chandler-Arvizo-Robson-Safechuck

Estate Letter links, 7th Feb 2019

4. Estate Attorney's letter to HBO, 7th Feb 2019

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...el-Jackson.pdf


5. Estate Attorney's letter to Radar Online, 7th Feb 2019

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/b10cd0...tachment_1.pdf
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Someone should make a video about the new facts mentioned in this letter.
Especially the things about James.
 

myosotis

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Glad to see that UK media have picked up the Estate letter, including The Sun (one of the worst tabloids) :

BEAT IT Michael Jackson estate slams ‘disgraceful’ Leaving Neverland documentary that claims he molested boys
The estate's lawyer says the film is 'one-sided' and a 'disgrace'.


By Debbie White
9th February 2019, 9:13 amUpdated: 9th February 2019, 9:24 am

MICHAEL Jackson’s Estate has slammed as “disgraceful” the contentious Leaving Neverland documentary that claims he molested boys.

The estate’s lawyer has sent a 10-page letter to HBO boss Richard Plepler, criticising the two-part film as “one-sided and a disgrace".

The controversial documentary features fresh abuse claims by former childhood fans of the Thriller singer.

These include accusers Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who said they suffered abuse in *****’s enormous California mansion he dubbed Neverland.

The documentary debuted at the Sundance Festival late last month, and HBO yesterday announced that the network will air Leaving Neverland on March 3 and 4.

This prompted Michael Jackson’s Estate to pen a letter to Plepler, reports Rolling Stone.

Part of it says: “The Estate spent years litigating with Robson and Safechuck, and had four different lawsuits by these two men dismissed with prejudice.

“Today, Robson owes the Estate almost $70,000 in court costs, and Safechuck owes the Estate several thousands dollars as well.”

Leaving Neverland director Dan Reed, a British filmmaker, was singled out for failing to contact or interview anyone who could dispute the men’s sexual abuse allegations.

This includes the star’s family, former legal team, or people who had spent time with Jackson during their youth.

The Estate added: “The fact that HBO and its producing partners did not even deign to reach out to any of these people to explore the credibility of the false stories Robson and Safechuck told violates all norms and ethics in documentary filmmaking and journalism.

“It is a disgrace.”

The letter points out that Robson was once a witness offering support to the star during his molestation trial.

And after Jackson’s death in 2009, the choreographer called him “one of the main reasons I believe in the pure goodness of human kind.”

The letter also noted that in 2011, when his now-accuser was rejected by the estate for a Michael Jackson themed Cirque de Soleil event, he reportedly came forward with his “fabricated”allegations against the singer.

It says: “Robson is an admitted perjurer who proudly called himself (in his draft book) a ‘master of deception.

“His own mother testified under oath… that she could not tell when he was lying.

“As for Safechuck, by his own admission, he did not ‘realize’ that he had been abused until after he saw Robson on the Today Show in May 2013.

“All of a sudden, Safechuck realized that he had been abused. He then contacted Robson’s lawyers and filed copycat lawsuits against the Estate for millions of dollars.

“And like Robson, he too had testified under oath that Jackson never did anything inappropriate with him.

“His two cases against the Estate were also dismissed.

“We would be happy to meet with HBO to discuss a solution. We have plenty of further information and witnesses that would expose these two for who they are.

“If HBO wants to maintain its industry position as a valid source of news and fact, it owes an obligation to the public – not to mention the deceased Michael Jackson with whom HBO had previously partnered with during his lifetime – to actually investigate these matters.”

HBO said in response to Rolling Stone: “Our plans remain unchanged.”

It intends showing the two-part documentary as scheduled.

Dan Reed, meanwhile, was described by the network as an “award-winning filmmaker who has carefully documented these survivors’ accounts.

"People should reserve judgment until they see the film.”

Michael’s nephew Taj is preparing a “series of rebuttal films” to shoot down the “vicious and calculated lies” of Wade Robson and James Safechuck.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/83894...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1549703848
 
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8701girl

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Great letter!! The first time I've been proud of the Estate. If no one who has been tooting the "documentary" as gospel publicly concedes to those massive shortcomings it will be an absolute disgrace of purposefully misleading the public. It's a one dimensional story at best. Calling it a documentary, calling it journalism or facts is just plain WRONG.

Hbo are still airing the doco despite the letter so it bad news
 

Gwyneira

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

At the very least, all MJ fans should unequivocally boycott the documentary. Most people don't want to spend 4 hours listening to detailed descriptions of child molestation, unless they're specifically invested in Michael Jackson. At least the fans should know better than to add viewership to this release. Pirate it later if you must.
 

Gwyneira

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This is quite interesting (from the estate's letter) regarding Safechuck not testifying in 2005:

"In the “documentary” and in his declaration for the litigation, Safechuck spins a tale about how he refused to testify for Jackson in 2005, despite threats from Jackson and his legal team. Setting aside the absurdity of Jackson and his sophisticated legal team trying to convince an unwilling and unstable witness to testify on such a sensitive issue, Safechuck’s story is demonstrably false. In particular, Safechuck declares that Michael and his legal team called him “towards the end of the criminal trial” trying to pressure him to testify. But this statement cannot be true. Early on in the trial, the Judge precluded the prosecution from allowing evidence regarding alleged molestation of Safechuck and others because the “evidence” of such molestation was unreliable. The exceptions were that the Judge did allow testimony from certain disgruntled workers that they had heard that Michael had molested Wade Robson, Macaulay Culkin and Brett Barnes. That is why those three specifically testified, and all of them denied the molestation (including Robson of course), and were subject to cross-examination by prosecutors but did not waver. And that is why Jackson and his attorneys would not have ever tried to pressure an unwilling and unstable Safechuck to testify, particularly “towards the end of the criminal trial” as Safechuck so falsely claims in the documentary and under oath."

I hadn't seen this brought up before, but it's a very valid point (for all of us who were confused about Safechuck's involvement).
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I've said it before and I will say it again. I am very much looking forward to seeing the ending of Game of Thrones but since I will have to subscribe to a toxic network I really won't. They truly are no better than any tabloid out there. For a "well respected division of documentaries" of them you would expect better.

Very powerful they call the doc, that we should see it too before judging it. In the process completely ignoring the very valid points and facts from the letter. Pathetic.
 

dmehta

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Kingofpop4ever3000;4240367 said:
This is why the Estate needs to make a response film to this real fast. While I’m grateful for the letter they sent to HBO, they should have known that HBO wasn’t going to care, since HBO announced this almost a month ago alongside the Sundance announcement for it and ever since, they’ve either been trying to defend their decision to Michael’s supporters and fair-minded people or completely ignoring them. The Estate really needs to reach out to Taj and work together with him on his documentary or at least do a response film on their own. The time is over for just hoping things like this will fade away. This is the worst attack on Michael since the trial years. I hope the Estate have something in mind to deal well with the ongoing fallout from this garbage. They’re going to need it because their business is on very thin ice at this point, in my opinion.

A rebuttal film is a nice idea, but it would take a long time to fund, film and produce. Then you have no guarantees that any major media outlet would broadcast it.

There are only a few weeks until this airs. There’s no time to make a rebuttal documentary that would air around the same time.

The Estate have sent a brilliant letter to HBO. They now need to go out into the media, armed with this information, and fight this. They need to be all over the media spreading the truth about these liars.
 

wednesday

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So. Who in here has cancelled their HBO subscription?
 

wednesday

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

MJJ over GoT!!
 
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