Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

Cookie Monzter

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You generally give an IV bolus for induction, which is to put the person 'out' and then you follow up with a maintenance dose in an iv bag.


I have yet to come across propofol being administered in an IV bag, but maybe things are slightly different in the US. Of course for the induction phase it's different, but I what I meant by bolus was, in the maintenance phase simply by direct IV infusion from a handheld syringe.
 

riviera1992

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the fact that all the correct monitoring equipment was in the next room tells me he KNOWS he is supposed to use it. The fact that he KNEW that and decided NOT to use it that night (due to laziness or whatever) - THAT in itself is PREMEDITATION - he took a premeditated life threatening risk. That is not involuntary!!

Why can people on these boards figure all this stuff out and the police and lawyers dont seem to be able to?? it is sooooo frustrating!!!!!

Agree 100%.

That's the real issue here. Murray HAD safety equipment but decide NOT to use it?
huhwhaaa.gif


God I wish TMez would be DA, he'd lock this guy up for good.
 

AnnieRUOkay89

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Is it possible that the propofol did in fact come in an IV bag, and Murray just set it up thinking an infusion pump wouldn't be needed? Because I had oral surgery a few months ago and I'm almost sure that the anasthetic (sp) that I was given was in an IV bag, I don't know if it was in fact Propofol, but it looked milky, and I have heard that Propofol is the recommended and usual anasthetic (sp) thats found in operating rooms.
 

DARKLIGHTDAN

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

as much as i want to read the report, i dont. :(
course i want to know what happened and everything, but i just dont feel comfortable reading it atm, i will read eventually though.
i would rather my last memory of michael, to be seeing him on that stage doing what he does best and loving it, and smiling. MICHAEL I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!
 

hilliver

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

What jumped out at me was the degeneration in facet joints in his back, I have exactly the same problem and it is very painful. For him as a performer it wouldn't have too much effect when moving but sitting is when you feel them, and I don't know how he managed to sit for hours in the courtroom, no wonder his back became so painful, it must have been excuitiating, when mine is bad I can't even get to sit for a minute.

The other very noticeable thing was the drugs that were found, nearly all of them had been prescribed by Murrey, this guy was filling Michael up with stuff, and given Murrey's financial situation I wonder if he was trying to make Michael dependant. I know Michael would have taken them willingly but I can imagine him trusting a doctor who told him he needed them.
 

emmah24

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That was a really tough read.

Page 30/31 sums up the complete and utter failure by Murray to care for Michael responsibly and really makes you wonder whether his intentions were to actually help Michael or not. How could he NOT have known the procedures for administering Propofol? Or did he know, but he just wasnt present with Michael, like he should've been.

Eugh...Im just so pissed off with what I've read.
 

Soundmind

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You generally give an IV bolus for induction, which is to put the person 'out' and then you follow up with a maintenance dose in an iv bag.

Things don't add up for me either and I can't figure out the toxicology because I can't figure out if the Propofol in the urine is from that day or the night before. I would need to know the time it takes to reach the urinary bladder, etc. Murray said he didn't give it the night before and it looks like he did not but then again, I am not sure what their 'normal value' at 24 hours would be. According to the reports I read the level at 24 hours would be way higher than 0.15 if he had it the night before.

urine is produce at a rate 50ml/h , urine bladder was 550 , that means urine would have been produced within 11+ hours . then they trace the drugs and know how much and for how long before death he was getting drugs depending on its concentration in the urine .

Lorazepam of all the drugs is missing from URINE , I thought he was using it to wean mj off propofol , guess he was lying . the results don't lie , if he used it for three days, it would have been detected in MJ's urine ANOTHER BIG LIE , why did he then use it on that particular day ? what a fucking asshole
 

Em_Mj

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

Oh GOD Michael.
I never knew :weeping:
I feel so blind. :cry:
I feel so awful. He always smiled, he always seemed so strong.
Little did I know what was really happening.
It really makes me so sick :(
I wish i could have helped him.
oh my. oh my.
:cry:
MICHAEL!!! :(

why did this beautiful amazing man have to endure so much emotional and physical pain?
 

daisy

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urine is produce at a rate 50ml/h , urine bladder was 550 , that means urine would have been produced within 11+ hours . then they trace the drugs and know how much and for how long before death he was getting drugs depending on its concentration in the urine .

Lorazepam of all the drugs is missing from URINE , I thought he was using it to wean mj off propofol , guess he was lying . the results don't lie , if he used it for three days, it would have been detected in MJ's urine ANOTHER BIG LIE , why did he then use it on that particular day ? what a fucking asshole

Thanks. Now I am really curious if Michael indeed ever asked for propofol that night.
 
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MoeJack

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

This isn't news and michael was fairly healthy that's why he looked fine. The dangerous tour was not 20 years prior.

I didn't mean to imply that he was dying or anything, ofcourse he was fairly healthy. But he had a whole host of problems that he tried his best to keep personal (as he should). And ok, the dangerous tour was what..16 years prior? lol..still nearly two decades. My point was that he had risen above all of what he was going through and had previously gone through and was looking sharper than ever...

The only thing I saw in regard to this was of the scars left over from the burn incident from the Pepsi commercial. Other than that I didn't see anything about cosmetic problems in trying to be perfect.

Regarding cosmetic problems, I didn't necessarily mean, trying to be perfect, I meant the vitiligo, the lupus, the acne, most of Michael's facial surgeries/operations were a result of these problems..and not just because he woke up one morning and decided he was going to look different..it was a gradual process that he was reluctant to undertake at first and then eventually felt comfortable in his "new" skin..
 

Petrarose

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

MOEJACK I do not know how you came to these conclusions based on the same document I read. Michael was basically HEALTHY. His organs was basically healthy except for the lungs which would not cause death. We should not mix up the medications that were found in the house and those that were found in his body. Some of the medications found in the house were not being used everyday. We should be cautious when saying he was suffering from depression, etc. READING YOUR COMMENTS MADE ME THINK I WAS READING A TABLOID PAPER. I think you should be a little more cautious in your summations. No disrespect intended.
 

MoeJack

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

MOEJACK I do not know how you came to these conclusions based on the same document I read. Michael was basically HEALTHY. His organs was basically healthy except for the lungs which would not cause death. We should not mix up the medications that were found in the house and those that were found in his body. Some of the medications found in the house were not being used everyday. We should be cautious when saying he was suffering from depression, etc. READING YOUR COMMENTS MADE ME THINK I WAS READING A TABLOID PAPER. I think you should be a little more cautious in your summations. No disrespect intended.

You're right about not jumping to conclusions, which I might've done. Regarding depression, I thought it was safe to assume based on what Michael was going through and what we heard from people around him during those tough years and all of the stress as well as the anti-anxiety, anti-depression, and all these other medications, that he wasn't exactly in the highest of spirits..There aren't that many reasons for a person taking these kinds of medications..especially since he was relatively healthy. It seems to have been more of an emotional problem..coupled with physical ofcourse..but he already had the various pain relievers for that. I mean we all know how hurt Michael was from all that had been happening to him, so it's sort of not a surprise but a surprise at the same time...
 

xthunderx2

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

i thought most people had heard bout the lupus?!

you are correct most Michael fans do know about the Lupus...:)...I dont know why some dont..maybe they dont know as much as they thought they did.
 

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urine is produce at a rate 50ml/h , urine bladder was 550 , that means urine would have been produced within 11+ hours . then they trace the drugs and know how much and for how long before death he was getting drugs depending on its concentration in the urine .

Lorazepam of all the drugs is missing from URINE , I thought he was using it to wean mj off propofol , guess he was lying . the results don't lie , if he used it for three days, it would have been detected in MJ's urine ANOTHER BIG LIE , why did he then use it on that particular day ? what a fucking asshole

Ok. Lets back up to explain urine production first. Urine can be more or less. If you are severely dehydrated it can be less per hour. If you drink a 3L bottle of water and you only put out 550 you are going to blow up. In other words, the 550 was just the reserve in his bladder. We don't know how long it was there. Normal bladder capacity is somewhere between 400 to 600cc. The urinary bladder can normally hold 250 to 350cc of urine before the urge to void becomes conscious (there are other urine tests they can do to check the urine concentration, etc) I believe MJ had a problem with urinary retention due to enlarged prostate.

I thought he was using Midazolam/Versed to wean MJ off the Propofol. Lorazepam is Ativan. Midazolam WAS found in the urine. At least I know the concentration for that was pretty high (6.8) and I believe it would show up for 48-72 hours after.

By the way, you seem a little annoyed at Murray.
 

MoeJack

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

you are correct most Michael fans do know about the Lupus...:)...I dont know why some dont..maybe they dont know as much as they thought they did.

Lol :). I mean Michael never really mentioned it like he did vitiligo..what was like the source? I mean how did the fans know about it? Personally, I found out from Dr. Klein..well not personally lol, but on Larry King..
 

xthunderx2

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Ok. Lets back up to explain urine production first. Urine can be more or less. If you are severely dehydrated it can be less per hour. If you drink a 3L bottle of water and you only put out 550 you are going to blow up. In other words, the 550 was just the reserve in his bladder. We don't know how long it was there. Normal bladder capacity is somewhere between 400 to 600cc. The urinary bladder can normally hold 250 to 350cc of urine before the urge to void becomes conscious (there are other urine tests they can do to check the urine concentration, etc) I believe MJ had a problem with urinary retention due to enlarged prostate.

I thought he was using Midazolam/Versed to wean MJ off the Propofol. Lorazepam is Ativan. Midazolam WAS found in the urine. At least I know the concentration for that was pretty high (6.8) and I believe it would show up for 48-72 hours after.

By the way, you seem a little annoyed at Murray.
so by reading your post it sounds as if you believe Murray's story about him weaning Michael off of propofol.....and not only that why would you try to belittle Michael by saying he was found in urine....you are getting on my nerves...I thought the idea of this thread was try and understand the coronors report and not to belittle Michael.....also YOU should be pissed at Murray to....
 

RedMaryFlint

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I thought he was using Midazolam/Versed to wean MJ off the Propofol. Lorazepam is Ativan. Midazolam WAS found in the urine. At least I know the concentration for that was pretty high (6.8) and I believe it would show up for 48-72 hours after.
Murray told police he gave Michael propofol, lorazepam, and midazolam on the 22nd, and lorazepam and midazolam on the 23rd.
 

Beachlover

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so by reading your post it sounds as if you believe Murray's story about him weaning Michael off of propofol.....and not only that why would you try to belittle Michael by saying he was found in urine....you are getting on my nerves...I thought the idea of this thread was try and understand the coronors report and not to belittle Michael.....also YOU should be pissed at Murray to....

What are you talking about? Can you please tell me how I belittled Michael? I think you have your facts backwards.

Soundmind posted information and I posted back to Soundmind explaining things. I think Sound made a simple mistake with the drugs.
 

xthunderx2

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

Lol :). I mean Michael never really mentioned it like he did vitiligo..what was like the source? I mean how did the fans know about it? Personally, I found out from Dr. Klein..well not personally lol, but on Larry King..

that was not direct at you sorry..:)....I heard it awhile ago in and interview he gave I dont have the link handy...yeah Kline sure does have away of giving us all of Michael's personal business doesn't he.....Michael beat him to it though..lol
 

Beachlover

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Murray told police he gave Michael propofol, lorazepam, and midazolam on the 22nd, and lorazepam and midazolam on the 23rd.

Wasn't this the 25th though? Then it matters the 22 and 23 if I am to backtrack.

And I forgot to say "Thank you" for the information.
 
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MoeJack

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Re: Regarding the Coroner's Report...

that was not direct at you sorry..:)....I heard it awhile ago in and interview he gave I dont have the link handy...yeah Kline sure does have away of giving us all of Michael's personal business doesn't he.....Michael beat him to it though..lol

That's ok :D. So Michael mentioned it himself before..interesting. Guess I've never seen it. What was really getting to me initially though was that Michael had all of these medical problems to deal with, from vitiligo and lupus to back problems and lung problems to scalp burns..all of which gave him searing pain all the time. And on top of that he had all of the legal issues and allegations thrown against him year after year as well as people doubting him and calling him names and such. Also on top of that add all of the career pressures from recording his albums to making his short films and performing concerts. He went through all of that, and yet for 50 years he never gave up his passion to heal the world and donate millions to the sick and poor around the world and give more and more joy and music to his fans all while keeping a smile on whenever he was in public. I don't know if it's just me..but I feel that this guy was under so much pressure and stress that it was truly more than one man can bear...
 

daisy

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Ok. Lets back up to explain urine production first. Urine can be more or less. If you are severely dehydrated it can be less per hour. If you drink a 3L bottle of water and you only put out 550 you are going to blow up. In other words, the 550 was just the reserve in his bladder. We don't know how long it was there. Normal bladder capacity is somewhere between 400 to 600cc. The urinary bladder can normally hold 250 to 350cc of urine before the urge to void becomes conscious (there are other urine tests they can do to check the urine concentration, etc) I believe MJ had a problem with urinary retention due to enlarged prostate.

I thought he was using Midazolam/Versed to wean MJ off the Propofol. Lorazepam is Ativan. Midazolam WAS found in the urine. At least I know the concentration for that was pretty high (6.8) and I believe it would show up for 48-72 hours after.

By the way, you seem a little annoyed at Murray.

OK but the urine production works the same for all of these medicines, some of which show quite high concentration (if I understood you correctly)

So low concentration of propofol is still indicator of its little or NO PRIOR use.
 

Soundmind

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Wasn't this the 25th though? Then it matters the 22 and 23 if I am to backtrack

the 22 and 23 do matter , if he gave im lorazepam on these dates it would have been in his urine .
 
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