[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

HIStory

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

No one said him being deposed equals the truth coming out. But this leech has never ever been questioned on the claims he had made. It is a principle of justice that when you accuse someone, that someone has the right to face you and to question you on your claims. MJ never had that chance.

Very true. People keep using the Chandler allegations as the supposedly "strongest" case against MJ, when in fact it is just a never tested, never cross-examined allegation. There is a reason why accused people have the right to face and cross-examine their accuser. It is only fair. The more transparent a case gets the more vindicated MJ is. That is always so.

Watch how haters almost never mention the Arvizo case (and in fact I have seen even them expressing doubt about that case) - that is because that case actually got tested and wasn't left as just as an allegation that was never cross-examined. It got exposed. Same with Francia, as Soundmind pointed out - the moment it went to court it fell apart. Settlement here or there.

This of course doesn't mean I want it to go to court. I think it is unfair to try someone on allegations like this (and that in a civil court on top of that) when he is not here to answer and when his accusers had all the opportunities in the world to accuse him when he was alive. So I think it would be fair to dismiss the case and that's what I am hoping for too. But IF it goes to court then I think it might be better to have Jordan testify (even if he sticks to his lies) than not. Then the defense should be given the chance to cross examine him and point out all the holes in his allegations rather than just Robson being allowed to use that case as a support for his allegations and being allowed to factually refer to Jordan as a "victim", while that case still remains untested and never cross-examined.
 
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terrell

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

The man who triggered a cascade of child molestation allegations against Michael Jackson has disappeared ... at least according to his sister who is scared to death her family is getting dragged into a posthumous child molestation lawsuit against the King of Pop.
Wade Robson, a choreographer/producer is suing MJ, claiming he was molested by Jackson for 7 years at the Neverland Ranch ... starting when he was 7.
Robson wants to take the deposition of the most famous MJ accuser, Jordan Chandler, who scored a $20 million settlement from the singer back in the '90s.
Problem is ... Robson's lawyers can't find Chandler, who's now 36. So they've asked to take the depo of Chandler's sister, Lily. They want to ask her if she knows Jordan's whereabouts, and whether she witnessed any sexual molestation at the Ranch.
Lily's freaked out, and has filed legal docs pleading with the judge to block the depo.
Lily claims her family -- especially Jordan -- has been viciously threatened by MJ fans, and if she resurfaces it will only stoke the coals. She attached some emails directed at her brother, including one that says "F*** you Jordan. U destroyed the king but karma is a bitch. your time will come."
Lily also says she was only 5 when she started going to Neverland and has no memory of any molestation.
A judge has yet to rule.

Source TMZ
I do not want to hear nothing about being threaten by no fans. These people were not fear in going to civil court in which they would be in front of fans and the media and everyone else. I do not want to hear it. No, they are fearful that their lies will finally come out in court in how they lied on MJ. She has no memory because it did not happen. This is no excuse not to do a depo. If a fan was really going to harm them, those would have done it by now. This happen in 1993 and many of fans of that era are all grown up with kids of their own and they are not running around after Jordan.
 
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SarahJ

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Being threatened by fans is old and tired. If Murray is still walking around on the planet then I'm guessing the Chandlers are okay. At least they could come up with a new excuse.
 

terrell

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Very true. People keep using the Chandler allegations as the supposedly "strongest" case against MJ, when in fact it is just a never tested, never cross-examined allegation. There is a reason why accused people have the right to face and cross-examine their accuser. It is only fair. The more transparent a case gets the more vindicated MJ is. That is always so.

Watch how haters almost never mention the Arvizo case (and in fact I have seen even them expressing doubt about that case) - that is because that case actually got tested and wasn't left as just as an allegation that was never cross-examined. It got exposed. Same with Francia, as Soundmind pointed out - the moment it went to court it fell apart. Settlement here or there.

This of course doesn't mean I want it to go to court. I think it is unfair to try someone on allegations like this (and that in a civil court on top of that) when he is not here to answer and when his accusers had all the opportunities in the world to accuse him when he was alive. So I think it would be fair to dismiss the case and that's what I am hoping for too. But IF it goes to court then I think it might be better to have Jordan testify (even if he sticks to his lies) than not. Then the defense should be given the chance to cross examine him and point out all the holes in his allegations rather than just Robson being allowed to use that case as a support for his allegations and being allowed to factually refer to Jordan as a "victim", while that case still remains untested and never cross-examined.
I agree.
 

ivy

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

It is a principle of justice that when you accuse someone, that someone has the right to face you and to question you on your claims. MJ never had that chance.

you do realize that that's by choice, right? The settlement. He could have taken it to court and questioned him, challenge him. They choose against it.

He MUST be deposed, someone must question him on everything he had claimed. This case will be forever in history books, and it would be catastrophic if Jordan's claims go unquestioned.

I think if you expect Estate to parade around past accusers and debunk their claims you will be sorely dissapointed. When MJ was a Doe defendant and Estate was trying to dismiss him they mentioned that their defense would change dramatically based on if the claims were against Michael or companies only. I'm quite sure their whole strategy would focus on the companies and not necessarily the abuse allegations.

Also as I said before depositions isn't public necessarily - only becomes public if they are added to motions. So even if he gets deposed but the case gets dismissed during summary judgment, no one will know about his deposition specifics. The only way a deposition will become public record, there needs to be a trial.

why should any of us be really worried about what he is going to say?

I didn't say we should be worried about Jordan being deposed and/or testified. I said I don't think he will change his story and I don't think the public does and will pay attention to Robson/Safechuck and Doe and the media wont be fair in reporting. It other words I said I don't expect Jordan's deposition or testimony to change any perceptions.

The companies were not controlled by anyone but Mj, so at the end of the day no new claims of him will allow the new cases to meet the legal requirements to survive.

yes and if there is no basis for suing the companies and we think the cases should be dismissed then why are we talking about depositions, testimonies and so on?
 
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Soundmind

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Very true. People keep using the Chandler allegations as the supposedly "strongest" case against MJ, when in fact it is just a never tested, never cross-examined allegation. There is a reason why accused people have the right to face and cross-examine their accuser. It is only fair. The more transparent a case gets the more vindicated MJ is. That is always so.

Watch how haters almost never mention the Arvizo case (and in fact I have seen even them expressing doubt about that case) - that is because that case actually got tested and wasn't left as just as an allegation that was never cross-examined. It got exposed. Same with Francia, as Soundmind pointed out - the moment it went to court it fell apart. Settlement here or there.

This of course doesn't mean I want it to go to court. I think it is unfair to try someone on allegations like this (and that in a civil court on top of that) when he is not here to answer and when his accusers had all the opportunities in the world to accuse him when he was alive. So I think it would be fair to dismiss the case and that's what I am hoping for too. But IF it goes to court then I think it might be better to have Jordan testify (even if he sticks to his lies) than not. Then the defense should be given the chance to cross examine him and point out all the holes in his allegations rather than just Robson being allowed to use that case as a support for his allegations and being allowed to factually refer to Jordan as a "victim", while that case still remains untested and never cross-examined.

the defense will have the chance to depose him as well. There needs not be a trial for him to be deposed by them. As long as mj's side has the chance to have him crossed examined I am fine with that. One way or another, it will eventually make its way to the public like everything else. Even if we do not have the chance to view it, it is important that his cross examination gets on file, and historical researches will have access to it. Anything is better than nothing.
 

ivy

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Even if we do not have the chance to view it, it is important that his cross examination gets on file, and historical researches will have access to it.

what file? depositions don't get filed with the court unless it's a part of a motion and/or will be used during trial. plus even it gets filed with the court for some reason, assuming it is confidential/sealed public/researchers can only access to it if a judge unseals it for some reason.
 

SarahJ

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

My concern is the way it will become public. The minute he's deposed the press is going to be salivating to get their hands on it. And if it's "leaked" than they can, and I have no doubt will, present it any way they want. They can pick and choose what to print and represent it as anything other than what it is.
I have to admit though, I'd like to see video of him being deposed. Imagine how much he'd be squirming under cross-examination.
 

Soundmind

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

you do realize that that's by choice, right? The settlement. He could have taken it to court and questioned him, challenge him. They choose against it.



I think if you expect Estate to parade around past accusers and debunk their claims you will be sorely dissapointed. When MJ was a Doe defendant and Estate was trying to dismiss him they mentioned that their defense would change dramatically based on if the claims were against Michael or companies only. I'm quite sure their whole strategy would focus on the companies and not necessarily the abuse allegations.



I didn't say we should be worried about Jordan being deposed and/or testified. I said I don't think he will change his story and I don't think the public does and will pay attention to Robson/Safechuck and Doe. It other words I said I don't expect Jordan's deposition or testimony to change any perceptions.



yes and if there is no basis for suing the companies and we think the cases should be dismissed then why are we talking about depositions, testimonies and so on?


well ivy you seem to care about nothing but the money aspect. And I am sure the estate shares your sentiments. I know the estate will not go after every accuser. I mean who really believes weisman will go after Jordan unless he is forced to? Are we even sure Weizmann believes in mj's innocence?!

MJ is a historical figure, and these cases will continue to garner attention. A video was published two days ago about how the court in Santa Maria and the legislators in California decided in 2005 to make all the filings in the case public to accommodate the media requests, and the LAW SCHOOL STUDENTS who continues to approach them seeking information about the case to use in their research. MJ will be talked about in hundred years to come, and it is important that anything that would expose his accusers be on record. I hope that you understand this has more value to many of us than the millions of dollars the estate is making in selling mj's assets.

by the way Mj did want to take him to court and question him in a criminal trial, but the incompetency of weizman and Co allowed Fieldman to get a civil trial before a criminal one, a blatant abuse to mj's constitutional rights.
 
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Soundmind

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

what file? depositions don't get filed with the court unless it's a part of a motion and/or will be used during trial. plus even it gets filed with the court for some reason, assuming it is confidential/sealed public/researchers can only access to it if a judge unseals it for some reason.

why are you so upset? you just admitted that there could be a way to unseal it if a judge decides to do so.
 

terrell

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Under a cross examine, I want to know how did Jordan know MJ was circumcise when in MJ's death report, MJ was not circumcise? I hate talking about MJ in this manner but that would be one of the question I want to know. This would be like saying someone rape you but only had one hand and the other hand was missing but the person you are accusing has BOTH/two hands he was born with.
 
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ivy

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

well ivy you seem to care about nothing but the money aspect. And I am sure the estate shares your sentiments.

nothing I said was about money and I don't appreciate you trying to twist it. It was all about legal strategy. perhaps you forgot but this case is all about the liability of the companies and by nature it fails if the companies have no control over Michael. You should realize everything else becomes moot if they can succeed on that.

furthermore based on the past discussion it's very clear that different fans have different expectations about these cases. Some believe the past accusations should be brought up, they should be debunked and it will prove MJ's innocence and the public will change their minds. To me that's the pink glasses scenario. Even if we assume such legal strategy, I don't think the public cares anymore and the perceptions will ever change.

My approach has always been more technical, legal and rational. If there is no grounds to sue the companies then this case shouldn't go forward. No one should be allowed to file meritless lawsuits and such lawsuits shouldn't go to trial. Some might consider it a win based on a technicality. Personally I'm totally fine with it. We have seen example after example how desperately Robson/Safechuck and Doe is trying to make this fit to sue the companies. I'm totally okay with a judge saying no to that attempt.

MJ is a historical figure, and these cases will continue to garner attention. A video was published two days ago about how the court in Santa Maria and the legislators in California decided in 2005 to make all the filings in the case public to accommodate the media requests, and the LAW SCHOOL STUDENTS who continues to approach them seeking information about the case to use in their research. MJ will be talked about in hundred years to come, and it is important that anything that would expose his accusers be on record. I hope that you understand this has more value to many of us than the millions of dollars the estate is making in selling mj's assets.

I have nothing against more information. The more we know the more knowledgeable we are. But many of your assumptions are flawed. Just because a deposition happened doesn't mean it's public and/or accessible by the researchers. Depositions don't automatically gets filed with the court. Refer to what I said before. Or think about many examples we have seen. how about any police interviews , grand jury testimonies? they have never become public. Did we ever see depositions at AEG case? Nope only the portions that they used at trial become public record.

why are you so upset? you just admitted that there could be a way to unseal it if a judge decides to do so.

upset? why would I be upset about anything? I just wanted to give you the real picture. Unrealistic expectations result in great disappointment. but if you want to have wishful thinking and dream on, be my guest.

as for judge unsealing depositions, refer to Cosby case. they only do such thing if there is a very good reason - such as another case/trial investigation etc. They don't unseal depositions just because someone asked or they felt like it.
 
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elusive moonwalker

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Just leak it ?? all sorts seems to get leaked in the U.S court system and jack ever happens to those who do it or at least if its something leaked against mj nothing ever happens?
 

Smooth72

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

No way Jordan ever testifies. Why would he? It would benefit him in absolutely no way. He took the money and that's that. If by some miracle he did testify he will absolutely stick to his story. How could he ever change it? Again he has already been paid. We make too much of this media shit. All they want is to sensationalize the stories and when it come to MJ they always will. Remember he is the cash cow for everyone from the estate to the horrible media. One thing to remember MJ always bounces back he is the King for a reason. I appreciate all the info from our MJ supporters. Let's not get wrapped up with the trolls that come on here to agrue they are just stirring the pot as they have know life. In the end these cases will be dismissed and MJ will still be MJ!
 

Soundmind

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Yes elusive. Comes to mind Mann who leaked confidential documents that no one but him had access to, still nothing happened to him. Another example is Jordan's own declarations. So since everything Jordan claimed has found its way to the public by being leaked, why not also leak his deposition? If it is video taped it would be even better.
 

ivy

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Just leak it 😉😇

that still assumes that the deposition will happen.

First they need to find him to serve him. They said they can't find him and need help from his sister and girlfriend. They are trying to get out of from being deposed. Beckloff will need to rule and force them to sit down for deposition.

Even if that happens they may not know his exact location. Such as Jordan might be staying with a friend or at a hotel but not tell them his exact location. So deposing his sister and girlfriend may not tell the lawyers where to serve Jordan.

Even if they find him and serve him doesn't mean he will have to sit down for a deposition. He can still oppose to it like his sister and girlfriend did. It would require another ruling by the judge.

You are assuming that Estate won't object to him being deposed. Defense don't like prior bad acts as it's highly prejudices the jurors.

Even if we assume all of these obstacles were overcome and judge forces Jordan to be deposed, it doesn't mean he will be a cooperative witness for any side. I would guess his answers would be mixture of "don't know", "don't remember". and as he was only 13 at the time and 23 years has passed, it would be reasonable answer.
 

barbee0715

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

TMZ and Finaldi are just playing up that myth of the "insane, delusional Michael Jackson fans." I admit that when I was watching the nightly news coverage of the trial, the one thing that struck me was that Michael's fans were crazy.
It seemed plausible-I had seen newsreels going back to the 90's where people were screaming under his hotel windows at all hours of the night and following him around the world.

I only found out many years later that a LOT of that stuff I saw on TV were set-ups-two alone that I know of came from the Jimmy Kimmel show.

I think it's the reason I was so stunned to run across this forum a few years ago and find out that the fans were NOTHING like that. Devoted yes, but they are also mature, responsible and intelligent.
 

terrell

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barbee0715;4173718 said:
TMZ and Finaldi are just playing up that myth of the "insane, delusional Michael Jackson fans." I admit that when I was watching the nightly news coverage of the trial, the one thing that struck me was that Michael's fans were crazy.
It seemed plausible-I had seen newsreels going back to the 90's where people were screaming under his hotel windows at all hours of the night and following him around the world.

I only found out many years later that a LOT of that stuff I saw on TV were set-ups-two alone that I know of came from the Jimmy Kimmel show.

I think it's the reason I was so stunned to run across this forum a few years ago and find out that the fans were NOTHING like that. Devoted yes, but they are also mature, responsible and intelligent.
What MJ has is fans who are not going to let someone they love (MJ) be trashed especially from people who do not know nothing about MJ and who are bias to trash him in order to sell a story and lie on him. That is not delustional or insane, that is common sense. I am amazed at someone who can call a Jackson fan those things YET those people can not give creditable reasons to be trashing him. This is why I like Beyoncé's beehive. People think they can say what they want to say about a person and the people who loved the person and follow the person and often the know the truth because they follow the person should not say nothing? WRONG.
 

barbee0715

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terrell;4173721 said:
What MJ has is fans who are not going to let someone they love (MJ) be trashed especially from people who do not know nothing about MJ and who are bias to trash him in order to sell a story and lie on him. That is not delustional or insane, that is common sense. I am amazed at someone who can call a Jackson fan those things YET those people can not give creditable reasons to be trashing him. This is why I like Beyoncé's beehive. People think they can say what they want to say about a person and the people who loved the person and follow the person and often the know the truth because they follow the person should not say nothing? WRONG.
Well, of course. I personally have loved Michael unconditionally since 1969-even though we are the same age, I have loved him and defended him as fiercely as if he were my own child-sometimes, people have even said that to me. That goes back to the second half of 1985, when the stupid tabloid stories started and I would think people were nuts to read them, much less believe them.

What I'm saying is that is the way the MEDIA played it up-and still are today-with these new supposed threats against Chandler. Media (even mainstream) didn't interview people standing outside the courthouse who had anything intelligent to say-they played up the "delusional" factor with people who obviously (like I said, found out later) were planted in the crowd. For a lot of years, I felt like I was all alone in my fandom. I didn't care-I would still defend Michael no matter what because I knew I was right.

BUT nice surprise-I was not the only fan-and there are millions of people out there who actually know the truth and fight and defend and research and that is why this Forum has been such a pleasure for me.
 

ivy

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

TMZ and Finaldi are just playing up that myth of the "insane, delusional Michael Jackson fans."

It's not Finaldi though, at least not this time. They are the ones who want to depose Lily and she is the one mentioning the fans.
 

CaptainEoLove85

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I would love for the Chandlers to be deposed, but it won't help their case any. Their strategy just gets more warped and ridiculous.
 

HIStoric

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Under a cross examine, I want to know how did Jordan know MJ was circumcise when in MJ's death report, MJ was not circumcise? I hate talking about MJ in this manner but that would be one of the question I want to know. This would be like saying someone rape you but only had one hand and the other hand was missing but the person you are accusing has BOTH/two hands he was born with.

I guess he knew MJ was once a Jehovah's Witness and therefore assumed he was circumcised.
 

8701girl

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I guess he knew MJ was once a Jehovah's Witness and therefore assumed he was circumcised.

Ummm......what does jevovah"s witness"s and being circumcised got to do with each other?????
 

8701girl

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Exactly a person raised by Evan and June Chandler is never gonna do the right thing

I think this is more of evan's doing than june's as she was just wanting to belive the father of her child , I mean evan was just evil, werid , and most of all JEALOUS!
 

HIStoric

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Ummm......what does jevovah"s witness"s and being circumcised got to do with each other?????

Circumcision is common in many cultures and religions, such as Islam, Judaism and some aspects of Christianity. As Michael was raised in a very religious household, it's not unreasonable to believe Jordan probably assumed MJ was circumcised as a result. Can't imagine Jordan knows a lot about JW, in fact I don't either but if I had to guess without any prior knowledge, I would assume they partook in that act as well. Some very brief googling I did shows that it's not customary, but there are some JW's out there who are circumcised.

I'm not judging this based off what is actually factual, I'm basing this off what could be their assumption. Of course, I could be wrong and the Chandlers assumed he was circumcised for another different reason, but this is what I reckon probably happened (unless someone can come up with a better one?).
 

elusive moonwalker

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

More likely he presumed mj was circumcised cause jordan is half jewish and probably is himself.

The only good thing about this is the feckers are been made to scurm.every so often it comes back to bite them only a little but its better than nothing LOL at lillys B.S. like anyone knows who the feck she is. they are so far up their ass. Pieces of s***
 

jaydom7

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

More likely he presumed mj was circumcised cause jordan is half jewish and probably is himself.

The only good thing about this is the feckers are been made to scurm.every so often it comes back to bite them only a little but its better than nothing LOL at lillys B.S. like anyone knows who the feck she is. they are so far up their ass. Pieces of s***

Exactly! Jordan is forever running away from a court room, testifying or anything where his lying ass has to tell the truth.. I wonder why that is.:mello:
 

KOPV

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Well majority of men in the United States (and several other places) are circumcised so if you were to guess what Michael would be, most would assume circumcised. Especially considering he is a Midwesterner the percentage of men are highest in that area..
 

Justthefacts

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Lilly's argument is a interesting. On the one hand she's afraid of the fans, on the other hand she was to young
 

HIStory

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Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Most men in the US, especially MJ's generation, are circumcised regardless of religion. I think that's why they said the option that is statistically more likely. They were wrong. LOL.
 
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