Fans want Quality Petition

Is this a good Idea?


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Billyjeanplxiv

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I was thinking, Michael's Films arent going to last forever unless digitally perserved. Film degrades over time, and after awhile it requires restoration. I have been thinking lately. I think Michael's Short Films need a BETTER QUALITY release than what we have got in the past. From the quaility of VHS, to Ghost on VCD, and now Michael Jackson's Vision. (which isnt Michael's vision, because the man WE know is a PERFECTIONIST and he always had Quality Releases while alive).

The year is 2012, and we are currently in the age of Bluray (1080p). And as a Michael Jackson fan, i must say. Im not going to ask for any less.
Thriller, Bad, Beat it, Billie Jean, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT US, You Rock My World, Ghost, and many many more films should be restored, perserved, and protected in a high quality way so we can enjoy them forever. Nobody really wants to watch poor DVD/VHS quality in this age. {Though Wembley is an exception as The ESTATE is unable to locate the master film (at least we are getting what we petitioned for many years}.

I propose, that we make a petion much like what was done for Wembley. However this petition, if you haven't allready guess it will be about finally getting/seeing Michael's Vision (The Short Films) in the Highest Quality we can today.
Other Artist can get their Music Videos, Films etc in high quality. Why can't MJ? Do they want it all just to fade away....maybe so but I don't.



So this is the topic for disscussion on this topic...and i hope something can come out of it in the coming years.

"It's all for L.O.V.E"


SIGN HERE http://www.change.org/petitions/the-michael-jackson-estate-release-mj-videos-and-short-films-in-hd
 
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GreenEyes

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Well, John Branca did just make this statement in the Time article (interview) posted yesterday in the BAD 25 forum.

Branca: We’ve been in the process of digitizing all of Michael’s archives of audiovisual and written material. We monitor the fans and we’re in dialogue and communication with them....
 

Arklove

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I agree with this...I like the VISION DVD only for the fact that everything is in one place....However, I tend to reach for my HIStory on Film DVDs and Dangerous Short films as the quality is far superior ...Which is a shame, cuz I pretty much wasted my money on VISION :(
 

etoile 37

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Yes! We need a blu-ray boxset and they need to do it right this time! The quality on Vision was just unacceptable. And they should make sure to include ALL his music videos (including those that he only participated in, like "We Are The World" and "Whatzupwitu") and ALL versions of them (like "You Are Not Alone" and "Blood On The Dance Floor" for example). As extras, they should also include the making of for every music video that has some footage available.
 

Kingofpop4ever3000

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Yes! We need a blu-ray boxset and they need to do it right this time! The quality on Vision was just unacceptable. And they should make sure to include ALL his music videos (including those that he only participated in, like "We Are The World" and "Whatzupwitu") and ALL versions of them (like "You Are Not Alone" and "Blood On The Dance Floor" for example). As extras, they should also include the making of for every music video that has some footage available.


I agree. Personally, The only thing I liked about VISION was that it had a few of Michael's videos that had never been released before. But I was also disappointed that not every music video Michael appeared in was included. The remastering quality on the videos in VISION was not acceptable, in my opinion. The Estate need to release all of the music videos that Michael did, whether he was the star or he only participated, in high definition quality.
 
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Zack44

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I'd love to see a Blu-ray combo pack Of Thriller, the full version of Ghosts, and The Making of Thriller all on the same disc. For bonus features it could maybe include extra, never before seen behind the scenes footage of Ghosts and Thriller, commentaries on each short film by people who worked on them, and maybe even an mp3 download of the early version of Thriller (Starlight). That would be interesting to release around Halloween-time, wouldn't it?
 

Hunterr

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Some videos are easier than others to make the transfer.
A lot of them would have to go back to the source SOURCE material and completely re-edit.
Even though they they were shot on film, the edit was done on video. So a lot of the edits and effects and so on would need to be re done. Not impossible, but more tedious than just taking a master film reel.
 

EML

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I would say Michael Jackson's Short Films should be kept as they are. Digitized no less for preservation purposes. Potentially enhanced for quality. But keep them the way they were when MJ created them. Keep it 4:3 aspect ratio.

By scanning film and creating high resolution 16:9 video for blu-ray would in my opinion be altering what MJ created with his vision at the time and touched with his energy. I say leave them be, as they are a part history.
 

WildStyle

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Some videos are easier than others to make the transfer.
A lot of them would have to go back to the source SOURCE material and completely re-edit.
Even though they they were shot on film, the edit was done on video. So a lot of the edits and effects and so on would need to be re done. Not impossible, but more tedious than just taking a master film reel.
Exactly. I'd still like to see it done eventually though.
 

etoile 37

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I would say Michael Jackson's Short Films should be kept as they are. Digitized no less for preservation purposes. Potentially enhanced for quality. But keep them the way they were when MJ created them. Keep it 4:3 aspect ratio.

By scanning film and creating high resolution 16:9 video for blu-ray would in my opinion be altering what MJ created with his vision at the time and touched with his energy. I say leave them be, as they are a part history.

They could make them HD for blu-ray without changing the aspect ratio. Disney's old movies are 4:3 on blu-ray.

The one thing that worries me is that since some videos were not edited on film, they would have to recreate the special effects to make them HD. The only way this could work is if they make sure to recreate them EXACTLY as they were, frame by frame, in such a way that not even the most hardcore fan could spot a difference. Otherwise, they can expect the fans to be in an uproar... Unfortunately, so far they have not demonstrated that they were good at restoration (Vision, the Wembley DVD, the production on the "Michael" album... none of them were impressive...) We'd need a perfertionist like Michael to oversee their work! Maybe if they asked a couple of hardcore fans to "test" their products, they could spot and fix any mistake, so we could have higher quality releases.
 

Galactus123

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They could make them HD for blu-ray without changing the aspect ratio. Disney's old movies are 4:3 on blu-ray.

The one thing that worries me is that since some videos were not edited on film, they would have to recreate the special effects to make them HD. The only way this could work is if they make sure to recreate them EXACTLY as they were, frame by frame, in such a way that not even the most hardcore fan could spot a difference. Otherwise, they can expect the fans to be in an uproar... Unfortunately, so far they have not demonstrated that they were good at restoration (Vision, the Wembley DVD, the production on the "Michael" album... none of them were impressive...) We'd need a perfertionist like Michael to oversee their work! Maybe if they asked a couple of hardcore fans to "test" their products, they could spot and fix any mistake, so we could have higher quality releases.

Thriller and Bad era short films are on film. It would be great to see Thriller, Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel on blu-ray. Smooth Criminal in Moonwalker blu-ray looks amazing!
 

EML

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They could make them HD for blu-ray without changing the aspect ratio. Disney's old movies are 4:3 on blu-ray.

The one thing that worries me is that since some videos were not edited on film, they would have to recreate the special effects to make them HD. The only way this could work is if they make sure to recreate them EXACTLY as they were, frame by frame, in such a way that not even the most hardcore fan could spot a difference. Otherwise, they can expect the fans to be in an uproar... Unfortunately, so far they have not demonstrated that they were good at restoration (Vision, the Wembley DVD, the production on the "Michael" album... none of them were impressive...) We'd need a perfertionist like Michael to oversee their work! Maybe if they asked a couple of hardcore fans to "test" their products, they could spot and fix any mistake, so we could have higher quality releases.

You make a good valid point. But I am just going to have to stick with what I feel.

By recreating any special effects you are doing exactly what I am strongly against. And that is altering with the original.

I am sure that this quality discussion is going to go on for years to come with various opinions. I am also sure The MJ Estate is having similar discussions regarding quality too. I will leave it at that.
 
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lom kit

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I would say Michael Jackson's Short Films should be kept as they are. Digitized no less for preservation purposes. Potentially enhanced for quality. But keep them the way they were when MJ created them. Keep it 4:3 aspect ratio.

By scanning film and creating high resolution 16:9 video for blu-ray would in my opinion be altering what MJ created with his vision at the time and touched with his energy. I say leave them be, as they are a part history.

People should stop with that "its not Michaels vision". You dont know what his vision was.
Michael was not supervising these dvds. If he did, he will never aproved them with that horrible 5.1 upmix.
And the quality of the early dvds wasnt that great. Since they were vhs transfers. The problem with "vision" was to much videos on one disc and that way quality "suffered". Althou the quslity wasnt that bad on all videos.
And regarding the aspect ratio, this is the vision of the director, not Michaels. He decides in what to shoot, 16mm or 35mm. Will the final product be FS or WS. Thats why AR varies from 1:85 to 2:35. The majority is in 4:3 because its intendet for television and thats how tvs very till mid 90's.
He could careless if its fs or ws.
Since films are shot mostly in 4:3 and then reframed in 16:9, its posible to create ws of all his videos. But it depends, what the directors preffers, how was shot and so on. Good example are LMA and SC. In the FS version they have more information visible on topand bottom. In WS alot more on the sides. Especialy LMA. I know both were intended for moonwalker. But Thriller was intended for cinema too and was shown in cinemas in 1:85.
Yes, if its not possible to make proper WS, then it should be leaved like it is.
All videos need new scans and not just digital remastering of old masters.

About the special effects to be recreated. Thats never done. Watch back to the future blu-rays. They have new 4k scans. The picture is great, but the sceenes with Sfx look blurry. Just like LMA, SD and SC in moonwalker.
Same with the Alien I & II, Stargate, Ghostbusters and many others. Great releases, same issues.
 
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Frankyboy5

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Since films are shot mostly in 4:3 and then reframed in 16:9, its posible to create ws of all his videos.
That's what made Vision worse. The pixels were RECTANGULAR and still 720x480 pixels, so therefore the horizontal resolution was lower... Even the widescreen videos looked low in resolution...
 
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lom kit

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I am talking about totaly new masters.
The vision was made from old masters. The ws videos were from 4:3 letter boxed masters, same used for Number ones dvd. They were not from real anamorph ws source, just cropped the old ones.
The issues on vision wont appear on the HD versions. Or on dvd, if they do it propertly and not the easiest way like on vision.
 

Rudolf

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They won't bother all the hassle finding the reels, doing new transfers, putting it all together where necessary to appear like it was originally etc. Because people still buy re-re-re-re-rereleases from old crappy masters. I predict them to invest money in this process only when DVD is going to be down outdated like VHS is today.
 

Galactus123

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They won't bother all the hassle finding the reels

I hope they do. Michael's videos need to be seen in the best quality possible. The all short films that can be HD should be released on blu-ray. Moonwalker's(blu-ray) montage showed them in great quality:

(remember 1080p HD)

I think it would sell a lot.
 
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MjsLovelyOne88

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It's a nice idea, all of these blu-ray packs, but the main thing could be that not everyone has access to blu-ray players. Yes, not everyone does. It can be a silly thing to bring up but a possible project like that would only benefit those who do, selfishly thinking here the majority of the people in the U.S.A probably have access to it and wouldn't care if other people don't, but where I live tons of people don't even have DVD players. So for now, I'll stay with what I'm able to have access to despite this sounding like a great idea.
 

mj_brainiac

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I'd love for them to do new scans/transfers using the original sources and release them on Blu Ray, but I think everyone by now would like that lol
 

HIStory

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It's a nice idea, all of these blu-ray packs, but the main thing could be that not everyone has access to blu-ray players. Yes, not everyone does. It can be a silly thing to bring up but a possible project like that would only benefit those who do, selfishly thinking here the majority of the people in the U.S.A probably have access to it and wouldn't care if other people don't, but where I live tons of people don't even have DVD players. So for now, I'll stay with what I'm able to have access to despite this sounding like a great idea.

I think the standard now is that they usually release something in both DVD and Blue-ray format. The problem with Vision wasn't that it was released in DVD but why wasn't it released ALSO in Blue-ray? At this age and time that would be such a standard. And we are talking about Michael's videos here - many masterpieces, so it would be worth to make them available in real high quality. But of course they should also make them worth having in Blue-ray, ie. make the videos the best quality possible. Vision was a great core idea - to have a (almost) full collection of Michael's videos, but then they could and should have made so much more of it than they did in terms of quality. (The DVD cover was cool though.)

And Thriller and Ghosts and their respective Making ofs just scream for a high quality modern release on DVD AND Blue-ray. It's actually pretty incredible that the best selling music video of all times, the Making of Thriller was never re-released since its original VHS release back in the 80s. Never on DVD and Blue-ray. And that Ghosts was never released on DVD and Blue-ray.
 

HIStoric

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I think the standard now is that they usually release something in both DVD and Blue-ray format. The problem with Vision wasn't that it was released in DVD but why wasn't it released ALSO in Blue-ray? At this age and time that would be such a standard. And we are talking about Michael's videos here - many masterpieces, so it would be worth to make them available in real high quality. But of course they should also make them worth having in Blue-ray, ie. make the videos the best quality possible. Vision was a great core idea - to have a (almost) full collection of Michael's videos, but then they could and should have made so much more of it than they did in terms of quality. (The DVD cover was cool though.)

And Thriller and Ghosts and their respective Making ofs just scream for a high quality modern release on DVD AND Blue-ray. It's actually pretty incredible that the best selling music video of all times, the Making of Thriller was never re-released since its original VHS release back in the 80s. Never on DVD and Blue-ray. And that Ghosts was never released on DVD and Blue-ray.

If they released Thriller on DVD + Blu-ray, with a good number of extras (making of, making of the song?, documentary on its influence, photo galleries, etc) and a decent price (After all, it is just one short film, not a full 2 hour film), I imagine it could sell well with some decent advertising, as long as there was an actual incentive to buy it. You can watch Thriller for free on practically any device now, not to mention many of us already have a copy on DVD, hence the incentive to purchase it would be very important. I wouldn't buy a Thriller DVD (I already have 2 copies of it on DVD), but if they released a Blu-ray with the entire short film in glorious 1080p high definition, with a making of, perhaps a documentary on the influence its had, a photo gallery, hell maybe even a small booklet in it, I most certainly would pick up a copy! :D
 

Zakk

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hope the estate are teasing us and keeping the real High Resolution 4k Scans of film reels, Newly Mixed DTS-HD Master Audio from Multitracks for when standard definition dies in which I believe to be... 2017. ring a bell? :p
 

Zakk

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they won't

stop being so doubtful all the time. and if they really plan on releasing VHS quality crap and compressed audio and fake song's. I will soon become embaressed, they're taking the piss. excuse the bad language, it's just my opinion. if thing's don't improve, I will never buy anything they release again. they have it ALL in the archive, and it's stressing me out so bad, URGH -_- rant over.
 

AtlasAir

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lol, piss.
And I'm being a realist and not throwing around technical terms loosely like 4k DTS-HD-MASTER-AUDIO.
You know how long it took for people to get HD flat screens into most peoples homes? Blu Ray alone is still having a hard time (because everyone streams stuff today).
4K video players/discs/tvs are not gonna be mainstream for a long time, let alone worth it. 1080p is fine.

And you saw VISIONS.
Horrible. Comparing to the History and Dangerous DVDs, it's crazy how it was even released.
They even took the time to make 5.1 mixes on those old dvds.

If they couldn't even bother to get good transfers and audio mixing for that box set, you really think they are gonna take the incredibly long task of re-editing all the videos?
And what was with not having the full Ghosts video? And randomly have the Enjoy Yourself "video". They could have also put on there the Even Though Your Gone "video" that I think was from the Jacksons variety show.

Yes, they were shot on film, but the majority of them were not edited on film. Let's say all the Dangerous videos to present, with the exception of Ghosts, was shot on film and edited on tape.

No, it's not impossible. But very tedious to recut all the videos.

That's probably why Spike Lee made a new version of APOM for Bad 25. The original video was edited on tape, so they would have had to re-edit the footage regardless.

The only blu ray treatment anytime soon I can see is Thriller and maybe History tour.
 
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