HIStory 25 [MERGED]

NatureCriminal7896

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i also notice they added some new items on the site here's the ones i found:

Crown Dad Hat

Album Coaster Set

Thriller Photo Tee

Dancing Shoes Crewneck Sweatshirt
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Okay. it up on they site. keep in mind this isn't the only thing their giving out. it gonna be a series of collectibles in the next coming months. they all limited of time. i'm gonna be honest with this set. i don't like it much. but i will get them a shoutout with the face masks. Prince estate did face masks before them. they could of done a much better job but like i said i give them a shoutout for that.

this is the first set of collectibles so there more to come.

let's see what they giving us the next coming months.

i'm really looking forward to anything like they don't care about us. it's perfect for the time right now.

I should point out i'm am not a fan of this album BUT i'm am interested what they have coming out with etc.
 

Rocketeer

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A dad hat for $25? Yikes. Shipping in 3-4 weeks? Double yikes. Those Bad and Dangerous totes? Triple yikes. Those aren't new though.

As for the other merch, it looks ok, I guess. Could be better. Although, I do not know why only Scream and Childhood are spelled out on the hoodie, t-short, neck gaiter, and face mask (which is not medical-grade, hence it does not function like a medical mask, plus it "makes no claims of antimicrobial protection, antiviral protection, particulate filtration or infection prevention or reduction," so what the heck am I supposed to use it for considering this pandemic??). Look, Scream is understandable, and Childhood is a great song, but what about You Are Not Alone, They Don't Care About Us, or HIStory? Those titles, and their corresponding lyrics, can really relay meaningful messages on a face mask or t-shirt when one dons either. I feel as though this celebration can correlate with the recent happenings while celebrating the album simultaneously. It can work!

I just hope that these really aren't the only pieces of "capsule collections" being released as this is just not that outstanding. The face masks should at least serve the purpose of an actual medical-grade mask and not just be of use for fashion purposes. Come on now Estate!
 

NatureCriminal7896

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A dad hat for $25? Yikes. Shipping in 3-4 weeks? Double yikes. Those Bad and Dangerous totes? Triple yikes. Those aren't new though.

As for the other merch, it looks ok, I guess. Could be better. Although, I do not know why only Scream and Childhood are spelled out on the hoodie, t-short, neck gaiter, and face mask (which is not medical-grade, hence it does not function like a medical mask, plus it "makes no claims of antimicrobial protection, antiviral protection, particulate filtration or infection prevention or reduction," so what the heck am I supposed to use it for considering this pandemic??). Look, Scream is understandable, and Childhood is a great song, but what about You Are Not Alone, They Don't Care About Us, or HIStory? Those titles, and their corresponding lyrics, can really relay meaningful messages on a face mask or t-shirt when one dons either. I feel as though this celebration can correlate with the recent happenings while celebrating the album simultaneously. It can work!

I just hope that these really aren't the only pieces of "capsule collections" being released as this is just not that outstanding. The face masks should at least serve the purpose of an actual medical-grade mask and not just be of use for fashion purposes. Come on now Estate!

Did you read what i just said? there's more to come in the next months. so we might get something for yana, tdcau, etc.
 

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If you buy their merch they will not bother to sell something more ambitious. Think about that.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Well whatever we suppose to do? tell fans to not buy their stuff? whatever we like this stuff or not fans gonna buy it. we can't not force people not to buy it.
 

Rocketeer

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Did you read what i just said? there's more to come in the next months. so we might get something for yana, tdcau, etc.
Yep I did, hence my last short paragraph. The hope still stands that the merch improves ;)

If you buy their merch they will not bother to sell something more ambitious. Think about that.
Interesting outlook that I kind of agree with, but if no one holds their hands out with money, they won't hold their hands out with anything, which would immediately eradicate any hopes for future releases.

In other words, if no one buys their products, they may stop selling, or releasing, anything.
 

ozemouze

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Yet again, the greediness rises.

For those who need a reminder:

  • Sony and the Estate are businesses. Like it or not, no business on the planet will invest time and money into a product they feel won't generate a financial return, no matter how much money the business is worth.
  • Bad 25 was a commercial disappointment, despite having a larger promotional cycle than any reissue I can think of (e.g., a Pepsi sponsorship, a Spike Lee documentary broadcast on ABC, a two-hour BET special, a single reprint). If a reissue of one of Michael's most commercially successful and culturally influential albums failed, why on Earth would those involved do anything even obscurely resembling it for HIStory, which doesn't hold 1/5 the societal impact or popularity?
  • Michael Jackson was not Prince. He did not leave behind a trove of completed material or worthwhile demos; nearly everybody with insider knowledge has confirmed as much. The day will inevitably come when the Estate has nothing left to offer. I would much rather that day take place decades into the future, rather than immediately.
  • Die-hard fans are only a fraction of the overall population. The Estate cannot cater to us because we alone cannot sustain a project that the general public has no interest in.
  • Not only is the Estate currently in a $100 million legal battle with HBO, they are also facing another round of Robson/Safechuck civil trials and the prospect of a Leaving Neverland sequel, given that Dan Reed will be filming the proceedings.
  • By definition, an "estate" serves the purpose of, among other things, preserving an artist's legacy and protecting their personal and financial assets. Over the last ten years, Michael's Estate paid off nearly $400 in debt, generated $2 billion in revenue, topped Forbes's list of highest earning dead celebrities ten out of the last eleven years (seven of which were consecutive), and introduced multiple projects (e.g., the Cirque tour, the Vegas residency, the Broadway show) that will keep his legacy alive. The Estate was NOT established to give fans new music whenever they so desired. They are not obligated to give us ANYTHING. Obviously they are not immune from criticism, but the idea that they SHOULD do something simply because we want them to is ludicrous and selfish.
(I'm sounding like a broken record, I know.)

I love HIStory just as much as everyone here. I would love to see a full rollout for it, and I'm not crazy over the merch either. However, I'm still baffled by the constant whining and complaining over the Estate's refusal to waste money on a small fraction of Michael's overall fan base by emptying his vault whenever we so desire.

People on other sides often mention Prince's Estate because they release so frequently, even though said releases have been on par with the Estate's in many cases.

Relax.

Thanks for the input, I certainly don't know anything about the business side of things so I'm happy to learn more about it, but I still have some questions (if some may sound naive please bear with me):

- Like it's been said, Bad 25 sales were affected by piracy, but I guess it's not much different for the whole music industry now, so that's something that should be taken into account. Plus, there's definitely a change in the way people listen to music now, e.g. I also prefer digital formats over physical copies (except for vinyls, but that's not for the general public anyway), and I've never been a collector despite being a fan (sure, I collect the music, but not e.g. different covers or merchandises). However, I'll certainly buy new material. Couldn't releasing content in digital-format-only be the way to go? Just provide more and more content, without expensive marketing campaign, just make it easily affordable (meaning price and format as well).

- I know about the limited number of the completely finished songs, and I'm aware not even the majority of fans share my views, but...: I don't think everything released has to be polished, moreover, demos, songs in work-in-progress state, even "ideas" could be a very interesting sneak preview into MJ's creating process. Instead of employing expensive producers to "rework" the songs, they could release materials as they are (well-mastered though), collecting them around some intriguing concept (e.g. the evolution of songs during the years/decades), perhaps interview others about the content, cooperate with MJ researchers/biographers to give a frame to the context, etc.

I talk from experience regarding this, one of my fav band tragically lost its lead singer/songwriter in an accident, leaving behind demos with musical ideas, some quite complete but all without lyrics, just with humming - they were released eventually and it's fascinating material.

- As for History itself perhaps there's a momentum now, when people turn to Earth Song and (sadly) TDCAU due to the recent state of affairs, the Estate should react in some way IMO. Not with the intent of profiting from it, just respond to the call, e.g. release these videos in HD on youtube for free. Like you said, the Estate's job is also to preserve MJ's legacy, including his message, and he certainly would react in some way if he was still here. A reaction like this wouldn't require big budget, months of planning, marketing strategy or anything, only some creativity. That's what the Estate is lacking now IMO, and the criticism for this is justified.
 

Eric

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The album cover coasters are probably the most interesting thing to me.
 

AlwaysThere

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Hulkamaniac;4291945 said:
^Why so butthurt tho? We are free to give opinions about anything. Bad 25 had no major impact because it was widely pirated on on fan forums, can you believe that? It's some of y'all fault for not supporting the good official releases.

I just find the sense of entitlement to be distasteful. I'm certainly not against criticizing the Estate for their shortcomings, but every move they make gets torn to pieces, no matter how irrelevant. It's not really a surprise that they don't consistently issue projects; fans are becoming greedy.

ozemouze;4291973 said:
Thanks for the input, I certainly don't know anything about the business side of things so I'm happy to learn more about it, but I still have some questions (if some may sound naive please bear with me):

- Like it's been said, Bad 25 sales were affected by piracy, but I guess it's not much different for the whole music industry now, so that's something that should be taken into account. Plus, there's definitely a change in the way people listen to music now, e.g. I also prefer digital formats over physical copies (except for vinyls, but that's not for the general public anyway), and I've never been a collector despite being a fan (sure, I collect the music, but not e.g. different covers or merchandises). However, I'll certainly buy new material. Couldn't releasing content in digital-format-only be the way to go? Just provide more and more content, without expensive marketing campaign, just make it easily affordable (meaning price and format as well).

- I know about the limited number of the completely finished songs, and I'm aware not even the majority of fans share my views, but...: I don't think everything released has to be polished, moreover, demos, songs in work-in-progress state, even "ideas" could be a very interesting sneak preview into MJ's creating process. Instead of employing expensive producers to "rework" the songs, they could release materials as they are (well-mastered though), collecting them around some intriguing concept (e.g. the evolution of songs during the years/decades), perhaps interview others about the content, cooperate with MJ researchers/biographers to give a frame to the context, etc.

I talk from experience regarding this, one of my fav band tragically lost its lead singer/songwriter in an accident, leaving behind demos with musical ideas, some quite complete but all without lyrics, just with humming - they were released eventually and it's fascinating material.

- As for History itself perhaps there's a momentum now, when people turn to Earth Song and (sadly) TDCAU due to the recent state of affairs, the Estate should react in some way IMO. Not with the intent of profiting from it, just respond to the call, e.g. release these videos in HD on youtube for free. Like you said, the Estate's job is also to preserve MJ's legacy, including his message, and he certainly would react in some way if he was still here. A reaction like this wouldn't require big budget, months of planning, marketing strategy or anything, only some creativity. That's what the Estate is lacking now IMO, and the criticism for this is justified.

I appreciate the response!

- B25's failure wasn't due to piracy. Illegal file-sharing affects pretty much everything, from music to film, and yet very few are vigorously affected. Xscape was also widely pirated by fans and the general public, yet it posted excellent first-week sales and went on to become one of Sony's best-selling albums worldwide in 2014. Album reissues seldom perform well no matter the artist, which is why most aren't given elaborate treatments. B25 lagged because it was surely one of the most exhaustive re-releases ever — a remastered original album, six newly-mixed-and-mastered outtakes, two remixes (one featuring a GRAMMY-nominated rapper), a newly-mixed-and-mastered live album, a visually-upgraded DVD fostered by a NASA-affiliated company, a documentary spearheaded by one of the most influential directors of modern history and featuring several A-list recording artists, and a global collaboration with Pepsi. This is more intricate than most studio albums receive, so its performance can only be seen as disappointing.

As far as streaming goes, the Estate was working towards a series of digital-only, one-off single releases with a "top-secret producer" (presumed by many to be Mark Ronson) in late 2018. Then came Leaving Neverland and the consequent HBO lawsuit, delays and postponements relating to the forthcoming Broadway show, potential civil appeals vis-a-vis Robson/Safechuck, and the COVID-19 crisis — all costly endeavors, whether financially or time-wise. Sure, the Estate could hustle forward with the singles plan, but that is still several thousand dollars in fees for producers, musicians, mixing services, mastering services, and digital design, on top of the finances already being funneled into the aforementioned projects.

- I completely agree that an album modeled around demos of already-released songs would be incredible. But again, while it may seem like a simple endeavor to us outsiders, the Estate's current priority is likely not to spend money on new music; it's to funnel funds into the best legal representation possible for the ongoing court cases and to resurrect a Broadway production that has endured a chaotic production process.

- Again, I wholeheartedly agree that an HD release of Michael's short films on YouTube (specifically "Earth Song" and the prison version of "They Don't Care About Us") would be an incredible way to capitalize on the current social climate.

I'm not some pro-Estate advocate that feels they are above criticism; I've had plenty of choice words for them over the years. However, I feel this community has devolved into an undeserved level of entitlement: "We want it and the Estate has it, so there's no reason they shouldn't give it to us!" That's simply not how it works. I just feel as though we could give them a goddamn break, ESPECIALLY given the circumstances.
 

ozemouze

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AlwaysThere;4291982 said:
B25's failure wasn't due to piracy. Illegal file-sharing affects pretty much everything, from music to film, and yet very few are vigorously affected. Xscape was also widely pirated by fans and the general public, yet it posted excellent first-week sales and went on to become one of Sony's best-selling albums worldwide in 2014. Album reissues seldom perform well no matter the artist, which is why most aren't given elaborate treatments. B25 lagged because it was surely one of the most exhaustive re-releases ever — a remastered original album, six newly-mixed-and-mastered outtakes, two remixes (one featuring a GRAMMY-nominated rapper), a newly-mixed-and-mastered live album, a visually-upgraded DVD fostered by a NASA-affiliated company, a documentary spearheaded by one of the most influential directors of modern history and featuring several A-list recording artists, and a global collaboration with Pepsi. This is more intricate than most studio albums receive, so its performance can only be seen as disappointing.

As far as streaming goes, the Estate was working towards a series of digital-only, one-off single releases with a "top-secret producer" (presumed by many to be Mark Ronson) in late 2018. Then came Leaving Neverland and the consequent HBO lawsuit, delays and postponements relating to the forthcoming Broadway show, potential civil appeals vis-a-vis Robson/Safechuck, and the COVID-19 crisis — all costly endeavors, whether financially or time-wise. Sure, the Estate could hustle forward with the singles plan, but that is still several thousand dollars in fees for producers, musicians, mixing services, mastering services, and digital design, on top of the finances already being funneled into the aforementioned projects.

- I completely agree that an album modeled around demos of already-released songs would be incredible. But again, while it may seem like a simple endeavor to us outsiders, the Estate's current priority is likely not to spend money on new music; it's to funnel funds into the best legal representation possible for the ongoing court cases and to resurrect a Broadway production that has endured a chaotic production process.

- Again, I wholeheartedly agree that an HD release of Michael's short films on YouTube (specifically "Earth Song" and the prison version of "They Don't Care About Us") would be an incredible way to capitalize on the current social climate.

I'm not some pro-Estate advocate that feels they are above criticism; I've had plenty of choice words for them over the years. However, I feel this community has devolved into an undeserved level of entitlement: "We want it and the Estate has it, so there's no reason they shouldn't give it to us!" That's simply not how it works. I just feel as though we could give them a goddamn break, ESPECIALLY given the circumstances.

Thanks for the detailed response, it helps a lot with looking at a bigger picture. And don't worry, you don't give the impression of a pro-Estate agent :D, just provide a much needed balance and information here.

I wasn't really around on forums/news when B25 and Xscape came out (just enjoyed the result :listeningtomusic), so I wasn't even aware of this big promotion around B25. Perhaps it was a bit overboard for a project like this, hopefully the Estate learnt from it rather than simply look at it as a failure. I've found both products great and enjoyed them a lot, and I'm happy to hear about the commercial success of Xscape.

I don't entirely agree that the fans are just "greedy" though, I think the dissatisfaction/mistrust is an inevitable result of the disastrous start of the "relationship" with the 2010 album. I'm afraid this loss of trust can't be restored soon, if ever, although I'm convinced things would be completely different without this fiasco.

But you're also right that these are not the best circumstances to launch business project in general anyway. Still, I can also understand that "celebrating" with T-shirts looks a bit... cheap. It might have been more elegant to just explain the situation and release some free stuff available for everyone. Not to mention it would also be a response to the current social climate, and a sort of proof that these songs are still relevant today.

Having said all that, I wholly agree that we have a more urgent thing to focus on now, and every fan should put their disagreement aside and support the Estate until the legal battles are settled. And on the legal ground the Estate performed very well, even above expectations IMO.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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I'm literality crying laughing right now.:lmao: fans are not too happy about this stuff on social media. I hope the next set is better in the next months.
 

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Neck gaiter looks dope, the rest is kinda ugly. My hopes lie in This Time Around and Stranger in Moscow, other singles don't have covers that translate well to merch and it doesn't look like we'll be getting more stylized artwork. Mind you I'm not speaking from a buyer's perspective, would have to cease being broke first. Not happening any time soon.
 

AmitLal92

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Valid points and I don't want to sound ungrateful but the estate has also had plenty of time to plan leading up to now (pre Leaving Neverland) to celebrate History 25.

Ok a re-release with new content would have been great but now that this is not happening they could have at least focused on existing content. Like upscaling Michael's music videos which deserve to been restored to HD/4K. At the end of the day this is about the music & legacy. The album is more relevant than ever right now, not to mention these anniversaries don't come round often.

Even the song "We've Had Enough" would be a fitting release right now. Yet it's still not available on streaming services. I think the criticism is warranted to an extent but I appreciate the estate is busy with the legal battles. Hopefully we get to see more worth while & exciting projects in the future.

AlwaysThere;4291982 said:
I just find the sense of entitlement to be distasteful. I'm certainly not against criticizing the Estate for their shortcomings, but every move they make gets torn to pieces, no matter how irrelevant. It's not really a surprise that they don't consistently issue projects; fans are becoming greedy.



I appreciate the response!

- B25's failure wasn't due to piracy. Illegal file-sharing affects pretty much everything, from music to film, and yet very few are vigorously affected. Xscape was also widely pirated by fans and the general public, yet it posted excellent first-week sales and went on to become one of Sony's best-selling albums worldwide in 2014. Album reissues seldom perform well no matter the artist, which is why most aren't given elaborate treatments. B25 lagged because it was surely one of the most exhaustive re-releases ever — a remastered original album, six newly-mixed-and-mastered outtakes, two remixes (one featuring a GRAMMY-nominated rapper), a newly-mixed-and-mastered live album, a visually-upgraded DVD fostered by a NASA-affiliated company, a documentary spearheaded by one of the most influential directors of modern history and featuring several A-list recording artists, and a global collaboration with Pepsi. This is more intricate than most studio albums receive, so its performance can only be seen as disappointing.

As far as streaming goes, the Estate was working towards a series of digital-only, one-off single releases with a "top-secret producer" (presumed by many to be Mark Ronson) in late 2018. Then came Leaving Neverland and the consequent HBO lawsuit, delays and postponements relating to the forthcoming Broadway show, potential civil appeals vis-a-vis Robson/Safechuck, and the COVID-19 crisis — all costly endeavors, whether financially or time-wise. Sure, the Estate could hustle forward with the singles plan, but that is still several thousand dollars in fees for producers, musicians, mixing services, mastering services, and digital design, on top of the finances already being funneled into the aforementioned projects.

- I completely agree that an album modeled around demos of already-released songs would be incredible. But again, while it may seem like a simple endeavor to us outsiders, the Estate's current priority is likely not to spend money on new music; it's to funnel funds into the best legal representation possible for the ongoing court cases and to resurrect a Broadway production that has endured a chaotic production process.

- Again, I wholeheartedly agree that an HD release of Michael's short films on YouTube (specifically "Earth Song" and the prison version of "They Don't Care About Us") would be an incredible way to capitalize on the current social climate.

I'm not some pro-Estate advocate that feels they are above criticism; I've had plenty of choice words for them over the years. However, I feel this community has devolved into an undeserved level of entitlement: "We want it and the Estate has it, so there's no reason they shouldn't give it to us!" That's simply not how it works. I just feel as though we could give them a goddamn break, ESPECIALLY given the circumstances.
 

Amaya

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The merch is so... meh. I mean the silhouettes of Michael and Janet are bleeding into the shirt so it just looks weird.

Are they afraid to pump more money into stuff because of LN? I mean, I couldn't blame them if that was the case, but still... why is it so difficult to make a 25th anniversary thing like they did with Bad?
 

AlwaysThere

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I appreciate the responses, all.

Just to clarify: I don't mean to be disrespectful with my phrasing (which seems like an odd thing to say when I'm using words like "greedy" and "entitled"). I just often see similar attitudes from other fan communities (e.g., Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, One Direction, Beyonce), and I think this community is better than that. I hate seeing so much pessimism in circumstances that don't warrant it. But of course, that's a matter of opinion.

At the end of the day, I love you guys and I love this community, and I hope something happens that can bring us all together soon:)

On another note: I really do think the HIStory 25 logo is dope. Simple but effective. The face mask and neck gater are also pretty cool. I just wish they'd do something a little more creative than just throw the single cover on a T-shirt. Plenty of artists do it and it's always offensively lazy.
 

ScreenOrigami

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It’s frustrating, really. As a new fan, I desperately want to spend money on some merch, but it’s just really not that appealing, especially since those items aren’t available from the European store and I’d have to order from the US and pay for overseas postage.

But I’ll get something when they rotate TDCAU in. That’s a great message to wear on a shirt, no matter the design. :)

Btw, interesting to see they’re still sitting on some of those 1,000 “This is it” box sets.
 

Rocketeer

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ScreenOrigami;4292023 said:
Btw, interesting to see they’re still sitting on some of those 1,000 “This is it” box sets.
Not that surprised to be honest :D
 

NatureCriminal7896

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we all have our opinions here. while i'm not too much a fan of the merch they gave us in this set. we can not force others what they want and not want. also nobody defending the estate. i'm am not pro-estate when it comes to somethings but i'm am not anti-estate.
 

Rocketeer

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Some people in the comment section of that Instagram post I linked here are still mentioning DANGEROUS 25, which happened, or was supposed to happen, back in 2016. It's 2020, the year of HIStory 25, and people are still expecting a better Dangerous 25 celebration due to being displeased with the skimpy celebration of the album that happened nearly four years ago.

No pro-Estate motives there.
 
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NatureCriminal7896

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Dangerous 25 is done and finish. that was years ago. we should be on dangerous 30 (boy that sounds so old lol)
 

Amaya

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Some people in the comment section of that Instagram post I linked here are still mentioning DANGEROUS 25, which happened, or was supposed to happen, back in 2016. It's 2020, the year of HIStory 25, and people are still expecting a better Dangerous 25 celebration due to being displeased with the skimpy celebration of the album that happened nearly four years ago.

No pro-Estate motives there.

I'm still a bit sad that all we got for that album was a t-shirt. Granted, it's a nice shirt, but still...
 

Wickedddd

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I wonder why this merch is only made available in the US? Feels like another missed opportunity to exclude for example Europe from this...
 

ozemouze

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Even the song "We've Had Enough" would be a fitting release right now. Yet it's still not available on streaming services.

That would be a really great idea. That song is little known and underappreciated, but still relevant, plus it's complete so it doesn't need anything else just a platform to reach a wider audience (and for free, like a response to the current situation).
 

JakexBad

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Yeah I am a new fan and this is my first real event. I am going to buy the normal history 25 hoodie but that’s it I will wait for more merch drops for the other singles. I agree we’ve had enough if it was put onto Spotify it’s simple to do and would be amazing for these current times
 

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At this stage, all I want from anniversaries are documentaries, not unreleased songs, half finished songs, remixe no t-shirts or any of that kind of material. The BAD25 doc was pretty insightful and this is how MJ should be remembered, for the craft of making music, how songs were orchestrated etc.
 
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