How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

[dam2040]

Blood was always the crap remix on the DVDs I remember

so annoying. I love the original one of michaels best songs. got a feel good vibe to it somehow

 

[DuranDuran]

Re: Blood On The Dance Floor

Yes the Wyclef remix could be considered an "update". Although it still was a pretty old fashioned hip hop beat for that time. But it was clearly fitting better for the US market than the original. At that time Hip Hop sound wasn't really part of mainstream over here yet, so it was all about the original version.

I don't know how popular New Jack Swing was outside of the USA. But it had been in the US since around 1985, but it really blew up in 1987. It was constantly on the radio in the late 1980s to the early 1990s. Bobby Brown was so popular, they got him to do the theme song for Ghostbusters II. Even Boy George had a New Jack Swing album in 1988 or 89 and the Rolling Stones had Teddy Riley remix one of their singles at the time. There were gospel singers and veterans like Aretha Franklin & Ray Charles doing NJS songs too. By the time Blood was released it was played out. There wasn't that much variety in the style, a lot of the songs sounded alike, and it was on the radio heavily for several years in a row, so it died. It wasn't popular anymore in 1997, so releasing Blood as a single didn't make much sense to me. I guess that was the reason Wyclef was hired to do a remix.

 

[jdigga1288]

I don't know why, but I always imagined him "returning to form" after This Is It. So instead of trying to chase the trends, I could have seen him working with people like Babyface, Teddy Riley, Jam & Lewis, or maybe even someone like Bruno Mars and doing more R&B style music.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Nothing on invincible is dubstep. This is another thing fans just like to say.

The ever growing tree of electronic music genres and merging subgenres is a confusing mess.
But be sure that this song has absolutely nothing to do with any flavour of dubstep at all.

There's rather a small relation to "2step", but even that is far fetched.
It's much closer to some of what Timbaland did in the 90s (which was 2step (a short-lived UK underground trend) inspired to some small degree).

If you both still do not believe that ‘Heartbreaker’ is dubstep, then let me direct you also to Rodney Jerkins’ own words about that.

“… If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’, and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then…" (Rodney Jerkins, Pensado’s Place)

The song sounds dubstep, it has the characteristics of dubstep, and it has also been described as dubstep by other music critics when the album came out in 2001.

Also, some music executives who got an exclusive sneak preview of that album (that took place in London, few months before the album’s official release), one of the first things they commented on while exiting the room (after listening to the album) was that ‘Heartbreaker’ as a dubstep track was going to be one of the pleasant surprises of that album.

 

[Electro]

If you both still do not believe that ‘Heartbreaker’ is dubstep, then let me direct you also to Rodney Jerkins’ own words about that.

“… If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’, and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then…" (Rodney Jerkins, Pensado’s Place)

The song sounds dubstep, it has the characteristics of dubstep, and it has also been described as dubstep by other music critics when the album came out in 2001.

Also, some music executives who got an exclusive sneak preview of that album (that took place in London, few months before the album’s official release), one of the first things they commented on while exiting the room (after listening to the album) was that ‘Heartbreaker’ as a dubstep track was going to be one of the pleasant surprises of that album.

So mj_frency, what are your favourite Dubstep tracks then?

Mainstream music executives and especially mainstream music journalists usually are not very well educated about tiny specific underground genres and usually can't care less about getting such details right. Back then they probably also called the HIStory remix single version "Techno".

If you want to call all music that has this type of slow and syncopated beat "Dubstep", well then it's "Dubstep" for you. But for anyone who has a long enough background in electronic music underground genres, it's crystal clear that this song does not have the main characteristics of any form of "Dubstep".

A more complete version of that Rodney quote is:
"If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’ and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then. And we ain’t even known what we were doing. If you listen to it now you’ll go ‘Wow!’ that’s dubstep. We were just trying things, not even knowing. (Rodney Jerkins)"

In that longer quote it's clear that he thought to have done some form of prototype of the genre, long before it became known as "Dubstep". That's due to his american cultural mindset, where "Dubstep" is the americanized version of it (also called "Brostep") that came to the USA around 2010 and became global mainstream a few years later. But apart from this prototype claim being really far fetched (and probably not meant death serious) he also clearly didn't know what he was talking about when he used the word "Dubstep". He missed out on the fact that the original "Dubstep" that was a "Reggae"~"Dub"~"2-Step"~"Garage" rooted UK underground thing started in 1999~2001.


See, you can't always take quotes as the gospel without trying to understand the whole context.

 

[mj_frenzy]

So mj_frency, what are your favourite Dubstep tracks then?

Mainstream music executives and especially mainstream music journalists usually are not very well educated about tiny specific underground genres and usually can't care less about getting such details right. Back then they probably also called the HIStory remix single version "Techno".

If you want to call all music that has this type of slow and syncopated beat "Dubstep", well then it's "Dubstep" for you. But for anyone who has a long enough background in electronic music underground genres, it's crystal clear that this song does not have the main characteristics of any form of "Dubstep".

A more complete version of that Rodney quote is:
"If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’ and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then. And we ain’t even known what we were doing. If you listen to it now you’ll go ‘Wow!’ that’s dubstep. We were just trying things, not even knowing. (Rodney Jerkins)"

In that longer quote it's clear that he thought to have done some form of prototype of the genre, long before it became known as "Dubstep". That's due to his american cultural mindset, where "Dubstep" is the americanized version of it (also called "Brostep") that came to the USA around 2010 and became global mainstream a few years later. But apart from this prototype claim being really far fetched (and probably not meant death serious) he also clearly didn't know what he was talking about when he used the word "Dubstep". He missed out on the fact that the original "Dubstep" that was a "Reggae"~"Dub"~"2-Step"~"Garage" rooted UK underground thing started in 1999~2001.


See, you can't always take quotes as the gospel without trying to understand the whole context.

You have lost the dubstep argument, as well.

The rest of Rodney Jerkins’ quote that I purposefully did not post earlier is quite irrelevant.

It does not matter what their original intentions were (of Rodney Jerkins and Michael Jackson) when they started creating the ‘Heartbreaker’ song.

It does not even matter if dubstep had a different term as a musical style, when they started creating that song.

‘Heartbreaker’ eventually became a song with a dubstep sound, so it is a dubstep song.

Rodney Jerkins compared the sound of ‘Heartbreaker’ to the sound of the Justin Bieber’s ‘As Long As You Love Me’ song, and the three men in that interview (Dave Pensado, Herb Trawick and Rodney Jerkins, who are all musically knowledgeable), agreed that these two songs share a very similar dubstep sound.

Which is true, because ‘As Long As You Love Me’ and ‘Heartbreaker’ do sound very similar (as both being dubstep songs).

Anyway, the 'Heartbreaker' dubstep discussion is becoming off-topic here.

 

[Electro]

You have lost the dubstep argument, as well.

So you are still convinced that the "live" version of BOTDF was an "update" of the dated style of the song, just because someone you don't quote said so? Respect! :kickass:

The rest of Rodney Jerkins’ quote that I purposefully did not post earlier is quite irrelevant.

You don't find it to be relevant because you don't seem to understand what exactly he is talking about nor what you are hearing.

Rodney Jerkins compared the sound of ‘Heartbreaker’ to the sound of the Justin Bieber’s ‘As Long As You Love Me’ song, and the three men in that interview (Dave Pensado, Herb Trawick and Rodney Jerkins, who are all musically knowledgeable), agreed that these two songs share a very similar dubstep sound.

It is not the "sound" (meaning actual sounds: drum sounds, synth sounds / instruments / sound design) that is similar.

What they mean is the rhythm that is remotely similar because of how the snare drum is placed in halftime. That's it.

But if you only go by that one detail, you could also claim "Heartbreaker" to be some form of Reggae. Or claim that Disco and Techno are the same, because of the similar straight bassdrum and tempo.

Within the lot of productions that Rodney has done over the years, "Heartbreaker" might be the first one that would come somewhat close to Dubstep. But that doesn't mean that it IS Dubstep outside of that narrow perspective.

Here's a YouTube channel with over 10 years of Dubstep. Show me only 1 song that SOUNDS like "Heartbreaker".
https://www.youtube.com/user/UKFDubstep/

And then check some 90s Timbaland productions like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5knq2Mbb2A

... because ‘As Long As You Love Me’ and ‘Heartbreaker’ do sound very similar (as both being dubstep songs).

Trying to prove Dubstep with a Justin Bieber song is quite hillarious. But anyway...

The whole sound design of "Heartbreaker" is completely different to what makes Dubstep Dubstep. Even that Bieber pop-cheese-Dubstep song demonstrates that perfectly.

But if you lack the listening experience to understand the different sound patterns you just won't get it. And in your mind you will "win" every argument about this, just because Rodney said "Dubstep".

 

[Eddlicious]

If he was alive today he would’ve made collabs with The Weeknd and Bruno Mars. I’m sure of it. He would’ve probably also followed the current trend of making trap songs. Imagine Michael on a sick trap beat. It would most definitely go number 1 on the charts.

 

[dam2040]

If he was alive today he would’ve made collabs with The Weeknd and Bruno Mars. I’m sure of it. He would’ve probably also followed the current trend of making trap songs. Imagine Michael on a sick trap beat. It would most definitely go number 1 on the charts.

Michael following trends?

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Michael following trends?

He did. Michael always had the perfect blend of following trends, updating trends and making his own innovate sound that later became trends.

 

[dam2040]

He did. Michael always had the perfect blend of following trends, updating trends and making his own innovate sound that later became trends.

Yeah but there's a difference between following a trend and making it your own. MJ never simply followed trends.

 

[Eddlicious]

Michael following trends?

One could argue You Rock My World was him following the R&B trend of the late 90s.

 

[DuranDuran]

neo-soul

Michael following trends?

I just said earlier in the thread that Invincible had several neo-soul tracks. Neo-soul was primarily popular with the R&B audience in the late 1990s to early 2000s, but not as much with the pop audience. So it was a trend. That's the reason Butterflies was a big R&B hit. Neo-soul was mostly mid tempo (aka "steppers" or steppin' songs) and slow jams, not much uptempo tracks.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Yeah but there's a difference between following a trend and making it your own. MJ never simply followed trends.

MJ followed the New Jack Swing trend with some tracks on Dangerous and followed the Rap sound that was popular in the the early 90s with This Time Around (Recruting Hip Hop producer Austin Dallas and even having BIG on the track). Invincible has many neo soul songs etc etc. Butterflies is MJ´s voice on a neo soul song.

 

[DuranDuran]

MJ followed the New Jack Swing trend with some tracks on Dangerous and followed the Rap sound that was popular in the the early 90s with This Time Around (Recruting Hip Hop producer Austin Dallas and even having BIG on the track). Invincible has many neo soul songs etc etc. Butterflies is MJ´s voice on a neo soul song.

I think an act starting a trend instead of than doing something already popular (like New Jack Swing or disco) is The Beatles or rather George Harrison. George introduced Indian traditional music & culture to mainstream pop music. After George started playing the sitar, a lot of rock & pop songs started having Indian sounds in them. Others are James Brown as one the originators of funk music and Larry Graham's with his bass thumping style. James' music has influenced acts in many genres. There's also Kraftwerk's influence with electronic dance music.

 

[StageGlitter]

There are a lot of "IFS" in those musings!

I think he'd stick with the formula that worked for him and would follow his roots....POP, R & B, etc. Romantic ballads, similar to Beautiful Girl, One More Chance, Fall Again, Break of Dawn, Whatever Happens would be forthcoming and I think he would continue to collaborate with young, up and coming artists, writers and producers. He wanted to work with Lady Ga Ga, for example.

The classical album that he dreamed of doing might become a reality and I can also envisage him working on movie soundtracks, as a way of tapping into that genre, once and for all. I would hope that his age wouldn't mean the end of the edgy, angry rock songs, with some raspy vocals.....but perhaps it would. Maybe he'd start to do the unplugged, acoustic versions of his songs that some of us dream about.

Ultimately, though, I don't think we would have seen too many more albums from Michael, had he lived. Considering that he left years between albums during his life time as it was, I think maybe we would have one more....two at the most, before he moved onto something else. I think he would have concentrated on his children's lives and where they were headed, as time moved on.

So true, Mikki.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Michael Jackson made an enigmatic statement (during the early stages of the making of the ‘Invincible’ album) when he said that people will understand and appreciate that album after 10-15 years from its release.

But, by all accounts, ‘Invincible’ musically was not ahead of its time when it came out in 2001.

It was essentially a mixture of the then-current trends: the up-tempo tracks had a typical Rodney Jerkins’ sound, while the mid-tempo tracks and the ballads were heavily influenced by R&B and neo soul musical elements.

One has to wonder here if Michael Jackson (when he made that statement) had initially a completely different vision with that album, but he eventually decided for one more time to swim with the tide by releasing an album with familiar to the audience sounds/style in order for him to get easier chart and commercial success with it.

 

[Luis Camacho]

I was thinking about this last night.

Just another fun question which I'd love to have a discussion about. Ignoring the subject of MJ's age and the fact he wanted to pursue other ventures, what do you think he would sound like now? In terms of the kind of music he would be doing. I personally believe we'd be getting things similar to Invicible, BOTDF and HIStory, but massively 'evolved' with every new release. Imagine the vocal styles he'd go for, the beautiful instrumentals he would craft! The short films!

I think if he took breaks between new albums, as he did anyway, his music would sell very well- if Mike was given creative freedom, was able to work when he wanted, and his work was promoted properly.

Mike always adapted his style to 'invite' listeners of all ages, while also staying true to himself. This is the other reason I think he would sell, because adaptability= longevity.

Michael would still be the real deal.

 

[wendijane]

If he was alive today he would’ve made collabs with The Weeknd and Bruno Mars. I’m sure of it. He would’ve probably also followed the current trend of making trap songs. Imagine Michael on a sick trap beat. It would most definitely go number 1 on the charts.

No. That is exactly missing the point here. I dunno who your michael jackson is but that person you just described there isn't M . He would have hated trap and you know it .You know it Eddlicious.

 

[wendijane]

It is a route that he had to take like many other very successful artists, and that way of promotion does not necessarily end the magic.





The main problem with the ‘Dangerous’ album is that the majority of its new jack swing songs have stayed rooted in that era.

mj _ frenzy i appreciate you took the time to respond to me and although i agree with you wholeheartedly with Dangerous and other points you have made i cannot agree with " he would have had to the take the route like everyone else ." line.
M didnt take routes dude lol he didn't follow anyone , anyone . that's the point . It did end the magic .I truly believe that .

The internet did end the magic because the magic was innocent and people were more patient. They didn't know any different.
People nowadays would not wait for a 10 second appearance at a window , they wouldn't, they would want M live on Instagram on the toilet! Showing his surgery scars etc [Extreme example of a demand but you know what i mean here ] Mostly, they would want him to be assess able,

He was never assess able - Never ! so in hindsight the magic had gone for him. how could he promote his art? How could he be michael jackson the mystery man? it would make his whole back story, and what he was always saying to us - look like a lie .
Sorry i just feel time & technology played a massive part to why michael is not with us now.

 

[Eddlicious]

No. That is exactly missing the point here. I dunno who your michael jackson is but that person you just described there isn't M . He would have hated trap and you know it .You know it Eddlicious.

It's no secret that he liked rap. If he liked rap back then, who's to say he wouldn't enjoy rap today? The man was getting down to In Da Club by 50 Cent, you don't think he would enjoy songs like God's Plan?

 

[wendijane]

It's no secret that he liked rap. If he liked rap back then, who's to say he wouldn't enjoy rap today? The man was getting down to In Da Club by 50 Cent, you don't think he would enjoy songs like God's Plan?

I can't see him favor Drake no.

 

[Piek]

Michael Jackson made an enigmatic statement (during the early stages of the making of the ‘Invincible’ album) when he said that people will understand and appreciate that album after 10-15 years from its release.

But, by all accounts, ‘Invincible’ musically was not ahead of its time when it came out in 2001.
It was essentially a mixture of the then-current trends: the up-tempo tracks had a typical Rodney Jerkins’ sound, while the mid-tempo tracks and the ballads were heavily influenced by R&B and neo soul musical elements.

One has to wonder here if Michael Jackson (when he made that statement) had initially a completely different vision with that album, but he eventually decided for one more time to swim with the tide by releasing an album with familiar to the audience sounds/style in order for him to get easier chart and commercial success with it.

Interesting – I never heard that statement by Michael, but it makes a bit sense to me. When I hear tracks like Shout and 2000 Watts, they sound experimental to me. At least experimental for Michael Jackson tracks. I always wondered whether or not Michael considered a completely different direction with Invincible.

I wished Michael had released some EP's, every now and then. With experiments, or collaborations... by sticking to albums only, he limited himself. An EP with Shout and 2000 Watts would have been lovely inbetween albums.

 

[DuranDuran]

The Fireman

I wished Michael had released some EP's, every now and then. With experiments, or collaborations... by sticking to albums only, he limited himself.

You mean like those electronic music albums Paul McCartney released under the name "The Fireman"? If a listener didn't know it was Paul and heard The Fireman's stuff, they'd never guess it was him. Most of it is instrumental. Mike is too commercial minded and concerned about selling the most records and getting hit singles to do that. It's not like Mike is an avant-garde or free jazz artist.

 

[DuranDuran]

Janet Jackson trap

He would have hated trap and you know it

How do you know that? Are you a mind reader or something? :hysterical: Janet has played Cardi B at one of her concerts a little while back.

 

[mj_frenzy]

mj _ frenzy i appreciate you took the time to respond to me and although i agree with you wholeheartedly with Dangerous and other points you have made i cannot agree with " he would have had to the take the route like everyone else ." line.
M didnt take routes dude lol he didn't follow anyone , anyone . that's the point . It did end the magic .I truly believe that .

The internet did end the magic because the magic was innocent and people were more patient. They didn't know any different.
People nowadays would not wait for a 10 second appearance at a window , they wouldn't, they would want M live on Instagram on the toilet! Showing his surgery scars etc [Extreme example of a demand but you know what i mean here ] Mostly, they would want him to be assess able,

He was never assess able - Never ! so in hindsight the magic had gone for him. how could he promote his art? How could he be michael jackson the mystery man? it would make his whole back story, and what he was always saying to us - look like a lie .
Sorry i just feel time & technology played a massive part to why michael is not with us now.

Keeping your mystery and using at the same time the social media for promoting your art are two things that are not mutually exclusive.

Michael Jackson would have kept his mystery even in the present social media era by, for example, creating and posting mysterious, interesting posts about him and his music on his social media accounts.

Michael Jackson liked a lot to tease his fans, and social media would have offered him an excellent opportunity for that purpose.

He would have used his social media accounts also for more serious things, like for the announcement of specific upcoming, very important projects or deals (with the aid of his management team).

And we have to keep in mind also here that Michael Jackson was a fan of that direct, on line interaction between an artist and the fans, even before the advent of social media.

Remember, for instance, his Simulchat interview on August 17th 1995 (during the promotion of his ‘HIStory’ album), when he actually sat in front of a computer with an Internet connection and he quite happily was answering many questions that his fans were sending to him in real time.

That Simulchat interview (when he became very accessible and casual to his fans) did not end the magic, and also Michael Jackson continued to be a mystery man even after that particular interview.

Also, as far as I know, Michael Jackson was actually planning to introduce a web chat feature on his MJJSource.com personal website in mid-2000s, and this showed also his desire for direct, on line communication with his fans from all over the world.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I think his music would of sound a lot like today music with his own thing with a mix of old school. of course it would of stand out like always because that was Michael.

Michael kind of did went with trends but did his own thing too. for example the 70's early 80's was the disco years. then the mid 80's was the hiphop. follow the early 90's new jack swing then rap and r&b.

I think Michael music would of had some trap in it. like it or not. Michael always follow the sound that was it was during the decade. yes he did own thing but also went with the sound.

so yes his music probably have alittle trap in it. Michael always want it to try new genres. and he always did. but i'm pretty sure his music would been on top as it is when he was still here.

look at Xscape. a lot people don't like the update version of those songs on that album but a lot people tend to forget that probably what his music would have sound like today probably even earlier then that because Michael was always ahead everybody.

Michael was such musician genius he could of do any genre he want it. bless him. i don't think we will never see any like that again.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I really hope his music wouldn´t become the music we hear today. Actually I don´t listen too much music that´s made today, because in my opinion most of that music is horrible.

I agree. i don't like today music either. i'm all old school. your not only one i hear a lot people say it too. i think Michael music would be like today music but 10 times better with his REAL voice.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I agree

Me too.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I mean, Love Never Felt So Good was written in '83 but people gravitated towards it in 2014. So imagine if he created something new today, it would stand out in the best way possible.

Agreed.