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Is this the new direction for Michael Jacksons Image?

Birchey

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I needed to write this down and get some feedback as its quite upsetting for me and I know alot of other fans I have spoken too in the last week, primarily the last day or so.

Whats happening to Michael Jackson, his art and image.

Xscape - Worldwide smash, Number 1, fantastic, Michael is back on top again, but what was the cost, every instance they have removed Michael and replaced him with a stylized version or "their" view of how Michael should look and sound. Heres how............

The Album

Xscape isn't a Michael Jackson album, well not the standard edition at least. Everything Michael except his voice was removed from that album, years of work tapes, writings and guidelines were ignored in favour of new "comtemporized" production, Yes you can say there are some MJ influenced sounds on there, but it isn't really Michael, its okay to "comtemporize" but Michael was about moving forwards, always looking to the next big thing, the newest sounds, but these sounds aint new, they primarily come from 80's synths and drum sounds, the same sounds Michael DIDN'T use during those era's. What we have in Xscape is the use of Michael Jackson to sell a non-Michael Jackson album, I hope you understand me there.

The Demo's

We know some of the demos, are NOT the way Michael left them, parts have been removed and they have not been mastered very well, levels all over the place and vocals buried deep, they certainly had a lot less attention put to them than the other half of the album, its a shame as this IS Michael Jackson, you might not like the compositions, but its truly him 100%. Another example of how poorly these were handled is "Chicago" the backing track is in Mono, it wasn't recorded like this, wasn't mixed like this. The vocals are not Mono they pan. This is just my opinion but I really have a gut feeling after listening to these demos for quite some time that they were purposely mixed badly to make the new versions sound more brilliant.

The Cover and Artwork

Cone............well covering up half Michaels face isn't a great start in showing off Michael's image, secondly the same source image was used again but with a "newsprint" filter applied to it, are there any real pictures of Michael used in Xscape? I have not seen any, only Sillouettes and Stylized photoshops.

The DVD

This was the opportunity to show Michael creating these songs, the studio footage, "here he is doing what he does best". Instead we have what can only be described as propaganda for how better the new versions are compared to the demos, one instance whilst playing the "Blue Gangster" demo, LA Reid and Timbaland have a giggle follwed by Timbalands "This one don't sound as bad as the rest of them". Instead of showing Michael they all speak of how THEY remembered Michael or how THEY felt he was in studio with them.

The Hologram

First off, lets get the obvious stuff out the way. The CGI was poor, looked almost a decade old. The Dancer was an Impersonator and not a great one at that. Now today we can recreate Michaels movements almost flawlessly, 2d Tracking is coming on good but with care and attention hand animating over source footage is just as good. What we got was their representation of Michael, wearing not his own clothes but those they wanted him to wear, from an era they wanted him from, dancing how they thought he would. The Technology for this, was just the same as Tupacs "Hologram" infact it was less impressive as there was no real people on stage as far as I can see, what we got was 2d projection of an Impersonator dancing to Michael Jackson, everything on that stage (Minus the band up top of stage) was pre-rendered. What we got was a music video projected onto a screen, not a "hologram", no "first ever" no "lightyears ahead of its time". The idea was great, but it was possible for them to do it better.


People say I and others complain alot, but we are just trying to find Michael Jackson in all this. LA Reid speaks of this Bieber duet, he has and is willing to water down MJ to the lowest levels not thinking about us, or anyone else except the dollar signs, its simple to me this whole project used Michaels voice and their view of his image as a "whore" to push this album and it pains me to see how much it worked. I love Michael Jackson and I wanted so much more of him on this album and they had the tools to do that, sadly from now on because this album is a smash, they will do it again, the next hot producer on the next album, Michaels own work we waited for so long to be released pushed to the back.

So is it worth losing Michael to have him number one for a week.......a few singles and then forgot about until the time comes again for the next album? I am finding it hard to see any other way, your thoughts?
:blush:
 
I think you are over-reacting, regarding this matter.

The Album - Nobody know what was Michael's true vision regarding the songs. Of course, you can say that the original producers could come and work over the original songs, using some of the notes, but keep in mind that most of the songs might not have any notes and tips from Michael. Let's also not forget about the disaster from the MICHAEL album where Lenny Kravitz ruined Another Day, Neff-U TWYLM and Akon with Hold My Hand.

The Demos - The demos were mastered by Bernie. I know they are mastered differently, but there is no way you can tell for sure they are not in their final state. Bernie should've been the best at this, just sayin.

Cover - Because the Estate might not have any access to the recent photos that are copyrighted by their photographers.

DVD - I also expected more here thb. It was nice to hear the APWNN acapella though.

Hologram - I'm not sure the technology permits to make more than this tbh. The face could've been an improvement, but nobody can replicate Michael's dance. It was a nice tribute, the public loved it. The only ones who can point out different things are the MJ fans. I think it was OK. Nothing more, nothing less. The technology was THE SAME as the 2pac projection. No less than that. It was a 3d hologram, not a 2d one. I think it would've been a good idea to use the Ghosts CGI footage, but it woudl've been hard to work with. Mounting the different movements to fit the song.

My 2 cents.
 
Dorian said:
I think you are over-reacting, regarding this matter.

The Album - Nobody know what was Michael's true vision regarding the songs. Of course, you can say that the original producers could come and work over the original songs, using some of the notes, but keep in mind that most of the songs might not have any notes and tips from Michael. Let's also not forget about the disaster from the MICHAEL album where Lenny Kravitz ruined Another Day, Neff-U TWYLM and Akon with Hold My Hand.
Click to expand...

No one really worked from anything Michael left, theres a whole lots of information in those demos. Michael most probably worked on the chords, bass etc......singing lines and harmonies likes he did to create his music. The best starting point you have to work on music MJ would approve of is to start off where he left, not to deleted everything he worked on and come up with your own idea.

Dorian said:
The Demos - The demos were mastered by Bernie. I know they are mastered differently, but there is no way you can tell for sure they are not in their final state. Bernie should've been the best at this, just sayin.
Click to expand...

The demos are not mastered well at all, I don't care who mastered them and the fact Chicago is in Mono is head scratching.

Dorian said:
Cover - Because the Estate might not have any access to the recent photos that are copyrighted by their photographers.
Click to expand...

The cover isn't even a recent picture, they would own alot of pictures of Michael, its not hard to put one somewhere, anywhere on the album

Dorian said:
DVD - I also expected more here thb. It was nice to hear the APWNN acapella though.
Click to expand...

Yeah seems a shame they didn't include MJ :/

Dorian said:
Hologram - I'm not sure the technology permits to make more than this tbh. The face could've been an improvement, but nobody can replicate Michael's dance. It was a nice tribute, the public loved it. The only ones who can point out different things are the MJ fans. I think it was OK. Nothing more, nothing less. The technology was THE SAME as the 2pac projection. No less than that. It was a 3d hologram, not a 2d one. I think it would've been a good idea to use the Ghosts CGI footage, but it woudl've been hard to work with. Mounting the different movements to fit the song.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

You would be suprised what could be replicated, people keep saying no one can replicate Michaels movements, but time and effort could create an inch perfect 3D CGI body of Michaels exact movements. I said it was the same as Tupac's just less impressive because there was no interaction with anyone real on stage and I think even though the image is obviously 3d like the real world, but it was rendered as a 2d image projected onto a screen.
 
I'll repost ivy's brilliant comment from other thread:

ivy said:
see the main issue here is the opinions. multiple different approaches can be stated here. Yes Michael was a perfectionist and he wanted to finish everything and songs weren't done until he said so. If that's the position/opinion someone takes then it means no albums or songs should be released at all and MJ's music career has ended the moment he died. Some might have opposing views. It doesn't mean they don't love or respect Michael's perfectionism but they don't want his music end. This is especially seen for artists that are lost way too soon - such as Tupaq, Biggie, Amy and yes Michael - when they had still too much to give. From that perspective posthumous releases are acceptable. I also believe that most people are aware of the difference between a posthumous album and an album released by the artist during their lifetime.. Similarly untouched songs versus the new remixes is debatable. Some will believe that MJ's songs being finished by producers aren't acceptable , some others might feel the demos need a little touch. For example I believe you said you loved Bad25 but the sales weren't even close to what is expected and none of the demos achieved what Xscape achieved. This album seems to be the best of two words, untouched demos + remixes.

I'm not saying which opinion is the correct one or the wrong one. I'm just trying to say I don't really agree with acting like there's only one way to approach to this situation. Simply that's not the case.

...

well this becomes a slippery slope IMO. With this approach if we want we can find a fault in everything. For example you called Bad25 as awesome, I can argue that releasing unfinished demos that didn't get his approval was disrespectful. How can you prove Michael would be okay with that? How could I prove he wouldn't be? So again this is nothing but different personal opinions. While I respect everyone's subjective opinions about which project is awesome and which one is shit, those opinions aren't indisputable stuff that everyone needs to confirm.

...

While I agree that many casual fans love "Michael the Entertainer" I disagree that their love is inferior or not true. for example just a few days ago one of my coworkers get excited when I took out Xscape CD from my bag (to play it in my office) and told me how much she loved Michael and she cried for days when Michael died. She only knows 1% of what we know and I'm sure she won't be able to tell an impersonator from MJ but I personally wouldn't discredit her love towards Michael as inferior or not true. She loves Michael in her own way and I feel Michael would have been happy with any kind of love.

...

I wholeheartedly agree that I wish Michael's value was understood when he was alive and he had been treated way way better but I'm not going to discredit the positive effect of these projects. Short while ago I was reading about how MJ's Q scores (celebrity likeability score) was lowest in the history of Q scores after 2005 trial and how it improved and continue to improve. Sure it's not the same thing as Michael being alive but it also isn't "nothing". To the contrary it's quite something.

I mean at times I don't get some logic. Yes many things may not be perfect - simply because MJ isn't here anymore - but don't we want the positivity, increased likability, the top selling albums/tours for Michael?
Click to expand...

Original complete ivy's commentary is HERE. :)
 
About the hologram. I like it, but the animation could have been way better. They have lots af concert/short film footage which can be used as reference and lots of motion capture files from Ghosts and Ready to rumble boxing game. They should be able to use those and piece a performance together and fill the "gaps" with hand-made animation. Ideally, the looks should be late MJ and not early 90ies MJ (Of course looking his best, but from his last years)

Animation should be on the level of the Na'vi from Avatar or Gollum from Lord of the rings and no less, PERIOD.
 
larry141094 said:
The hologram could've been EXACT, they have a mould of MJ's face from Moonwalker, they should scan that and superimpose it on a dancer (a better one next time)
Click to expand...
There is a also a 3d scan of Michael's head from 1996 that they could have used.
8qElV1b.jpg

http://gizmodo.com/5407507/michael-jacksons-3d-body-scans-on-ebay-for-15-million
 
Interesting post. I think you raise some good points, but I don't agree with everything.

Firstly, I think your expectations are too high. It is never going to be the same as when MJ was with us and some fans (I'm not saying you Birchey) act as if this is a legitimate MJ release like HIStory, Dangerous, Invincible etc.

First things first, lets discuss the songs themselves. How likely is it that any of these songs would've been released on a new album if MJ were alive? Highly, highly unlikely. MJ wouldn't be returning to rough scratchy demos from the 80s (Loving You or LNFSG), or songs he didn't deem good enough to make the cut on Invincible (Blue Gangster, APWNN). The only song from Xscape which possibly could've been included on a real MJ album might have been Chicago, and you can bet he would've re-recorded it entirely, added more ad-libs and probably used a different producer.

But as things stand, all they have to work with is what MJ left. It is impossible to know which direction MJ would have taken any of these songs in the unllikely event he decided to go back to them with new producers. Most of the contemporised versions do an honourable job at sounding like something MJ might have attempted in 2014, but of course we will never know. The only song that I feel misses the mark completely is Blue Gangster, which I think Timbaland really messed up on.

As for the cover, I feel like you're nitpicking here. MJ himself hadn't used a real picture of his face on an album cover since Bad. I think the cover was great. It was a previously unseen picture, so it felt like a real new album cover, and it was modern enough to still look like something MJ might have done in 2014 (not like Thriller era MJ used on the "Michael" cover), but it was also from a time where MJ still looked healthy and, dare I say, like MJ (c'mon, there's a reason why his image on the cover of Invincible was edited to within an inch of its life... he didn't exactly have the most marketable appearance from 2001 onwards). As it stands, Xscape is a far better album cover than Invincible was.

As for the hologram, again, they aren't going to be using MJ's likeness from 2001-2009, largely because the public doesn't associate MJ the entertainer with that era of his life. They did right to use Dangerous/HIStory era MJ IMO.
 
Birchey said:
I needed to write this down and get some feedback as its quite upsetting for me and I know alot of other fans I have spoken too in the last week, primarily the last day or so.

Whats happening to Michael Jackson, his art and image.

Xscape - Worldwide smash, Number 1, fantastic, Michael is back on top again, but what was the cost, every instance they have removed Michael and replaced him with a stylized version or "their" view of how Michael should look and sound. Heres how............

The Album

Xscape isn't a Michael Jackson album, well not the standard edition at least. Everything Michael except his voice was removed from that album, years of work tapes, writings and guidelines were ignored in favour of new "comtemporized" production, Yes you can say there are some MJ influenced sounds on there, but it isn't really Michael, its okay to "comtemporize" but Michael was about moving forwards, always looking to the next big thing, the newest sounds, but these sounds aint new, they primarily come from 80's synths and drum sounds, the same sounds Michael DIDN'T use during those era's. What we have in Xscape is the use of Michael Jackson to sell a non-Michael Jackson album, I hope you understand me there.

The Demo's

We know some of the demos, are NOT the way Michael left them, parts have been removed and they have not been mastered very well, levels all over the place and vocals buried deep, they certainly had a lot less attention put to them than the other half of the album, its a shame as this IS Michael Jackson, you might not like the compositions, but its truly him 100%. Another example of how poorly these were handled is "Chicago" the backing track is in Mono, it wasn't recorded like this, wasn't mixed like this. The vocals are not Mono they pan. This is just my opinion but I really have a gut feeling after listening to these demos for quite some time that they were purposely mixed badly to make the new versions sound more brilliant.

The Cover and Artwork

Cone............well covering up half Michaels face isn't a great start in showing off Michael's image, secondly the same source image was used again but with a "newsprint" filter applied to it, are there any real pictures of Michael used in Xscape? I have not seen any, only Sillouettes and Stylized photoshops.

The DVD

This was the opportunity to show Michael creating these songs, the studio footage, "here he is doing what he does best". Instead we have what can only be described as propaganda for how better the new versions are compared to the demos, one instance whilst playing the "Blue Gangster" demo, LA Reid and Timbaland have a giggle follwed by Timbalands "This one don't sound as bad as the rest of them". Instead of showing Michael they all speak of how THEY remembered Michael or how THEY felt he was in studio with them.

The Hologram

First off, lets get the obvious stuff out the way. The CGI was poor, looked almost a decade old. The Dancer was an Impersonator and not a great one at that. Now today we can recreate Michaels movements almost flawlessly, 2d Tracking is coming on good but with care and attention hand animating over source footage is just as good. What we got was their representation of Michael, wearing not his own clothes but those they wanted him to wear, from an era they wanted him from, dancing how they thought he would. The Technology for this, was just the same as Tupacs "Hologram" infact it was less impressive as there was no real people on stage as far as I can see, what we got was 2d projection of an Impersonator dancing to Michael Jackson, everything on that stage (Minus the band up top of stage) was pre-rendered. What we got was a music video projected onto a screen, not a "hologram", no "first ever" no "lightyears ahead of its time". The idea was great, but it was possible for them to do it better.


People say I and others complain alot, but we are just trying to find Michael Jackson in all this. LA Reid speaks of this Bieber duet, he has and is willing to water down MJ to the lowest levels not thinking about us, or anyone else except the dollar signs, its simple to me this whole project used Michaels voice and their view of his image as a "whore" to push this album and it pains me to see how much it worked. I love Michael Jackson and I wanted so much more of him on this album and they had the tools to do that, sadly from now on because this album is a smash, they will do it again, the next hot producer on the next album, Michaels own work we waited for so long to be released pushed to the back.

So is it worth losing Michael to have him number one for a week.......a few singles and then forgot about until the time comes again for the next album? I am finding it hard to see any other way, your thoughts?
:blush:
Click to expand...

Important thread, great post, thank you Birchey.

I have to quote your complete post, because that is exactly how I feel.

I'm afraid for what is going on with Michael's image in the future. I feel like he is disappearing more and more with every single project. I say this despite the fact I like the new album.

Birchey said:
We know some of the demos, are NOT the way Michael left them, parts have been removed and they have not been mastered very well, levels all over the place and vocals buried deep, they certainly had a lot less attention put to them than the other half of the album, its a shame as this IS Michael Jackson, you might not like the compositions, but its truly him 100%. Another example of how poorly these were handled is "Chicago" the backing track is in Mono, it wasn't recorded like this, wasn't mixed like this. The vocals are not Mono they pan. This is just my opinion but I really have a gut feeling after listening to these demos for quite some time that they were purposely mixed badly to make the new versions sound more brilliant.
Click to expand...

Thanks for mentioning. Question is: why did they do so?

LA Reid and Timbaland have a giggle follwed by Timbalands "This one don't sound as bad as the rest of them". Instead of showing Michael they all speak of how THEY remembered Michael or how THEY felt he was in studio with them.
Click to expand...

This was disillusioning. I wonder why they didn't cut out this part. They debunk their real thoughts about this project. And yeah, they just talk about themselves. They assure each other how great they are, they don't care about Michael.

So is it worth losing Michael to have him number one for a week.......a few singles and then forgot about until the time comes again for the next album?
Click to expand...

All in all I would say: NO! There must be a bigger part of the real Michael Jackson in future albums, or projects. Not just imaginations of him, his voice or his appearance.

And finally I feel no need to contemporize his music. Michael's music is classic and timeless.
 
Good God!

Is one thread not enough for Birchey to bash last nights awards!??

To me, this is purely STAFF abusing their privilages and trying to force their own agenda on fellow fans.

This is a disgrace in my opinion!
 
maviefly said:
Important thread, great post, thank you Birchey.

I have to quote your complete post, because that is exactly how I feel.

I'm afraid for what is going on with Michael's image in the future. I feel like he is disappearing more and more with every single project. I say this despite the fact I like the new album.



Thanks for mentioning. Question is: why did they do so?



This was disillusioning. I wonder why they didn't cut out this part. They debunk their real thoughts about this project. And yeah, they just talk about themselves. They assure each other how great they are, they don't care about Michael.



All in all I would say: NO! There must be a bigger part of the real Michael Jackson in future albums, or projects. Not just imaginations of him, his voice or his appearance.

And finally I feel no need to contemporize his music. Michael's music is classic and timeless.
Click to expand...

As members of an MJ internet forum, it's fair to say they we are all most probably part of the top 10% of the more 'extreme' fans, the other 90% being the general fans, the music lovers that know him for his top singles and then general music lovers and 'Joe public'. Lets be honest here, nothing to do with Xscape, be it the artwork, DVD, music tracks or last nights 'performance' were aimed at us, the top 10%. It's impossible to keep us happy, why? Because we know every minute detail about Michael from his singing and dance to his day to day preferences and lifestyle.

As a whole Xscape and last nights performance were a positive for that 90% mentioned above. Which would you rather have, the news dominated by slander, talk of new abuse claims OR positive reviews of the album and the hologram performance? We need to try and be a little less selfish.
 
SmoothMJ said:
Good God!

Is one thread not enough for Birchey to bash last nights awards!??

To me, this is purely STAFF abusing their privilages and trying to force their own agenda on fellow fans.

This is a disgrace in my opinion!
Click to expand...
Trying to force their own agenda? He even says in his first line that he would like to get feedback on his thoughts. If anything you're the one trying to force your agenda on others by trying to shut down discussion and constantly insulting people who have a different opinion than you.

We are here to discuss what we feel about the direction they are taking. You disagree with Birchey's post? Great, post about it just like the other people in this thread who disagreed, so we can get a discussion going.
 
Complain for the sake of complaining?

The remixes are Michael's vocals. The demo's are as he left them. The album cover is awesome. And the hologram needs work, but of course it isn't Michael Jackson.

Be happy with what you have. Of course Bad 25 was more awesome than Michael and Xscape (remixes), but I listen to the demos of Xscape and I'm happy.

I've been a Michael Jackson fan for 27 years, and I'm happy with what Sony are releasing.
 
That's something i've thinked about, i believed they tried to make the demos look bad, and the new ones better.
 
SmoothMJ said:
Good God!

Is one thread not enough for Birchey to bash last nights awards!??

To me, this is purely STAFF abusing their privilages and trying to force their own agenda on fellow fans.

This is a disgrace in my opinion!
Click to expand...

What the hell? seriously dude!

I want feedback from people, I am having trouble and want to understand how people are loving all this. If anything I want convincing......badly!

Abusing my power would be me, shutting you down for consistantly trying to flamebait me and singling me out, I am not because I think people have a right to their opinion. But like I said if you don't agree with me or want to give input into the threads or messages I write, just go do soemthing else please.
 
SoCav said:
Trying to force their own agenda? He even says in his first line that he would like to get feedback on his thoughts. If anything you're the one trying to force your agenda on others by trying to shut down discussion and constantly insulting people who have a different opinion than you.

We are here to discuss what we feel about the direction they are taking. You disagree with Birchey's post? Great, post about it just like the other people in this thread who disagreed, so we can get a discussion going.
Click to expand...


But you guys have have ample opportunity to bitch about the things listed above - and you have taken them in spades! Why the need for another thread going over the same ground??

AGENDA!
 
SmoothMJ said:
But you guys have have ample opportunity to bitch about the things listed above - and you have taken them in spades! Why the need for another thread going over the same ground??

AGENDA!
Click to expand...

You answered you're own question, you are complaining about the negativity, well if thats what you call it, hopefully it will move more towards this thread ;)
 
SmoothMJ said:
Why the need for another thread going over the same ground??
Click to expand...

You mean like how you're going over the same ground with Birchey in two different threads rather than sticking to one?
 
SmoothMJ said:
But you guys have have ample opportunity to bitch about the things listed above - and you have taken them in spades! Why the need for another thread going over the same ground??

AGENDA!
Click to expand...
Thanks for calling a different opinion 'bitching' again. Btw, this thread is, unlike the other topics, more about the general direction that is being taken and how we as fans feel about this, rather than just the album or the hologram performance specifically.

Your last comment is ridiculous. Some of us simply disagree with the approach the Estate is taking at the moment. We express this politely and on the basis of arguments. No one is telling you to agree with it, on the contrary, you are invited to express your own opinion. But instead of discussing it, you are constantly putting down people with a different opinion with insults. And then you, ironically, complain that others are causing a negative atmosphere around here.
 
L.T.D said:
You mean like how you're going over the same ground with Birchey in two different threads rather than sticking to one?
Click to expand...

I can't post anywhere without being accused of abusing my power for expressing my opinion, now I have an agenda all a sudden after god knows how many years. I just want to discuss this stuff with fans, I dont care if they dont agree with me, thats what forum is for :/
 
I guess I just find it impossible to understand how you could have loved the Michael era, and hated this era. This era is much, much better than the Michael era.
 
I agree with most, if not All of Birch's points here. I love how Xscape and the performance are being received so well, but at the end of the day we are allowed to discuss things we don't like.
 
I agree with the image part. The moment i saw the album cover i hated it, because it's too damn obvious they are trying to hide MJ.
 
Chris_Jones said:
As members of an MJ internet forum, it's fair to say they we are all most probably part of the top 10% of the more 'extreme' fans, the other 90% being the general fans, the music lovers that know him for his top singles and then general music lovers and 'Joe public'. Lets be honest here, nothing to do with Xscape, be it the artwork, DVD, music tracks or last nights 'performance' were aimed at us, the top 10%. It's impossible to keep us happy, why? Because we know every minute detail about Michael from his singing and dance to his day to day preferences and lifestyle.

As a whole Xscape and last nights performance were a positive for that 90% mentioned above. Which would you rather have, the news dominated by slander, talk of new abuse claims OR positive reviews of the album and the hologram performance? We need to try and be a little less selfish.
Click to expand...

*cough cough*

Love how my attempt to form a structured response became buried under arguments *sighs*
 
Chris_Jones said:
*cough cough*

Love how my attempt to form a structured response became buried under arguments *sighs*
Click to expand...

Sorry Chris.

Yes I can see your point and its correct, but for me this all could have been acheived without removing Michael as much. keep the basslines from the demos, the chord structures, really contemporize Michaels music not just his voice, the DVD the same wouldn't of hurt them to add some footage of the artist, instead we got a "the new version is superior to the old MJ", Image, I can see why they chose to make that image but spreading a few real pics of MJ in the booklet would have been nice too. As for the "Virtual MJ" it could have looked better, it deserved to have looked better. Just a bit more mike ya know :(
 
I couldn't be more pleased with the direction the Estate is taking this in since 2009. Within 5 years, less actually, we've gotten two new studio albums, a greatest hits, an anniversary CD, and a remix CD.

Fans will never be satisfied. I remember the bitching that happened with Invincible, and that was a Michael Jackson album, by Michael Jackson.
 
Birchey said:
I needed to write this down and get some feedback as its quite upsetting for me and I know alot of other fans I have spoken too in the last week, primarily the last day or so.

Whats happening to Michael Jackson, his art and image.

Xscape - Worldwide smash, Number 1, fantastic, Michael is back on top again, but what was the cost, every instance they have removed Michael and replaced him with a stylized version or "their" view of how Michael should look and sound. Heres how............

The Album

Xscape isn't a Michael Jackson album, well not the standard edition at least. Everything Michael except his voice was removed from that album, years of work tapes, writings and guidelines were ignored in favour of new "comtemporized" production, Yes you can say there are some MJ influenced sounds on there, but it isn't really Michael, its okay to "comtemporize" but Michael was about moving forwards, always looking to the next big thing, the newest sounds, but these sounds aint new, they primarily come from 80's synths and drum sounds, the same sounds Michael DIDN'T use during those era's. What we have in Xscape is the use of Michael Jackson to sell a non-Michael Jackson album, I hope you understand me there.

The Demo's

We know some of the demos, are NOT the way Michael left them, parts have been removed and they have not been mastered very well, levels all over the place and vocals buried deep, they certainly had a lot less attention put to them than the other half of the album, its a shame as this IS Michael Jackson, you might not like the compositions, but its truly him 100%. Another example of how poorly these were handled is "Chicago" the backing track is in Mono, it wasn't recorded like this, wasn't mixed like this. The vocals are not Mono they pan. This is just my opinion but I really have a gut feeling after listening to these demos for quite some time that they were purposely mixed badly to make the new versions sound more brilliant.

The Cover and Artwork

Cone............well covering up half Michaels face isn't a great start in showing off Michael's image, secondly the same source image was used again but with a "newsprint" filter applied to it, are there any real pictures of Michael used in Xscape? I have not seen any, only Sillouettes and Stylized photoshops.

The DVD

This was the opportunity to show Michael creating these songs, the studio footage, "here he is doing what he does best". Instead we have what can only be described as propaganda for how better the new versions are compared to the demos, one instance whilst playing the "Blue Gangster" demo, LA Reid and Timbaland have a giggle follwed by Timbalands "This one don't sound as bad as the rest of them". Instead of showing Michael they all speak of how THEY remembered Michael or how THEY felt he was in studio with them.

The Hologram

First off, lets get the obvious stuff out the way. The CGI was poor, looked almost a decade old. The Dancer was an Impersonator and not a great one at that. Now today we can recreate Michaels movements almost flawlessly, 2d Tracking is coming on good but with care and attention hand animating over source footage is just as good. What we got was their representation of Michael, wearing not his own clothes but those they wanted him to wear, from an era they wanted him from, dancing how they thought he would. The Technology for this, was just the same as Tupacs "Hologram" infact it was less impressive as there was no real people on stage as far as I can see, what we got was 2d projection of an Impersonator dancing to Michael Jackson, everything on that stage (Minus the band up top of stage) was pre-rendered. What we got was a music video projected onto a screen, not a "hologram", no "first ever" no "lightyears ahead of its time". The idea was great, but it was possible for them to do it better.


People say I and others complain alot, but we are just trying to find Michael Jackson in all this. LA Reid speaks of this Bieber duet, he has and is willing to water down MJ to the lowest levels not thinking about us, or anyone else except the dollar signs, its simple to me this whole project used Michaels voice and their view of his image as a "whore" to push this album and it pains me to see how much it worked. I love Michael Jackson and I wanted so much more of him on this album and they had the tools to do that, sadly from now on because this album is a smash, they will do it again, the next hot producer on the next album, Michaels own work we waited for so long to be released pushed to the back.

So is it worth losing Michael to have him number one for a week.......a few singles and then forgot about until the time comes again for the next album? I am finding it hard to see any other way, your thoughts?
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Then don't buy it, period. Jeezz.
 
My only gripe so far with the Xscape "era" (can we really call it an era when MJ isn't around anymore?) is that some of the producers have taken liberties, far more so than any of the spruced up versions of older tracks on "Michael." I absolutely loathe what Timbaland has done to Blue Gangsta. I mean, what the hell is that mess? The original demo was dated for sure, but the skin and bones of it had the potential to be something great. But Timbalands version just sounds like a horrid remix. I don't believe MJ would've approved of those changes, not in a million years.

I quite enjoy the contemporised versions of the rest of the tracks, but still, I don't think they should be changing the songs this much. It's done fairly respectfully on Lovin' You, STTR and Xscape, but is it really right for these producers to be completely re-imagining MJ's vision for some of these songs? I mean, look at the difference in the two versions of Chicago. Now I actually prefer the contemporised version to the original, but there's no denying that Timbaland has completely disregarded the laid-back, dreamy vibe MJ had going on and just came in and did his own thing with it. Is that respectful? As an artist, I think MJ would want his work to be polished up before release, but he wouldn't approve of someone changing the entire mood of a song.

I know the estate gave us the demos to compensate, and I am thankful for that. But personally, I would just prefer a balance between the two. Yes, by all means bring in current producers to make the songs sound more complete, take off the midi instruments and dated drum loops etc. But don't turn it into a Timbaland album featuring MJ's vocals. Stay true to MJ's sound and vision for the songs.

Just my two cents....
 
They used Dangerous era Michael because Slave To The Rhythm is Dangerous era song.
 
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