I’ve had it with the estate!!!

Themidwestcowboy

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I’m so sick and tired of this! Enough is enough. This will be my first post about how tired and frustrated I am with how the estate are handling the vault. I just got a notification that Prince estate released “Do Me Baby Demo” from their forthcoming anniversary release of Dirty Mind.

Thus far The Prince estate has released:


Purple Rain re-release
Sign O The Time Re-release
1999 re-release
Welcome to America album
Originals (songs Prince wrote for other artists)
Piano and microphone album
3 live concerts (audio/video)
Purple Rain live Syracuse remastered
Feel for you original demo (standalone single)
Compilation album with one new song
And they are planning to release Dirty Mind and Diamonds and Pearls anniversary editions.


There are probably some other stuff that I forgot about..

Don’t give me that old excuse “it’s a different situation because Prince recorded more songs than MJ”. It’s not even a Prince vs MJ thing it’s just how uninspired and LAZY they are. They don’t have a lot of finished songs? Ok release a anniversary album with different takes and demo version of songs with maybe 1-2 unreleased songs. Why don’t they do a similar thing like they did with Prince “Originals?” Release a small EP with songs that MJ wrote/gave away to other artists . How about an album where we hear MJ’s tape recordings of him creating his songs and the whole process as seen on the depositions? Or how about just one standalone single? It doesn’t even have to be a new unheard song. Where are Dangerous, History, Off The Wall, Triumph re-releases? If they don’t think concerts are Suitable for worldwide release because of unusable audio why not then upload some of them on YouTube? WHY NOT? Seriously what is the problem? I don’t get it. It’s the lack of creativity that bothers me the most and then they try to write of fans like we’re asking for everything in the vault all at once.

End of rant//
 
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Dilan

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if you dont like it why dont you become a prince fan so you can enjoy all of this unreleased music we are getting
 

femi

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That's why I'm a Prince and Michael Jackson fan. Because since the lousy MJ Estate is not releasing music right now. I could go and look forward to Prince's unreleased tracks for now. And btw Do Me, Baby (demo) is way better than the 1981 version, in my opinion. I just can't for the possible D&P Deluxe.
 

Themidwestcowboy

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if you dont like it why dont you become a prince fan so you can enjoy all of this unreleased music we are getting
I am a Prince fan! Prince and MJ are my favorite artists of all time!

I know someone will come in here and talk about the broadway show and other stuff but i'm not talking about that. I'm talking about MUSIC. The art that he made when he was alive. Is it such an insurmountable task to release material? They have given us excuses after excuses that doesn't hold up under scrutiny. I couldn't help but laugh at the notion that The Estate thinks that other Estates are jealous of them.. They are so out of touch it's not even funny.
 

Mikky Dee

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I’m so sick and tired of this! Enough is enough. This will be my first post about how tired and frustrated I am with how the estate are handling the vault. I just got a notification that Prince estate released “Do Me Baby Demo” from their forthcoming anniversary release of Dirty Mind.

Thus far The Prince estate has released:


Purple Rain re-release
Sign O The Time Re-release
1999 re-release
Welcome to America album
Originals (songs Prince wrote for other artists)
Piano and microphone album
3 live concerts (audio/video)
Purple Rain live Syracuse remastered
Feel for you original demo (standalone single)
Compilation album with one new song
And they are planning to release Dirty Mind and Diamonds and Pearls anniversary editions.


There are probably some other stuff that I forgot about..

Don’t give me that old excuse “it’s a different situation because Prince recorded more songs than MJ”. It’s not even a Prince vs MJ thing it’s just how uninspired and LAZY they are. They don’t have a lot of finished songs? Ok release a anniversary album with different takes and demo version of songs with maybe 1-2 unreleased songs. Why don’t they do a similar thing like they did with Prince “Originals?” Release a small EP with songs that MJ wrote/gave away to other artists . How about an album where we hear MJ’s tape recordings of him creating his songs and the whole process as seen on the depositions? Or how about just one standalone single? It doesn’t even have to be a new unheard song. Where are Dangerous, History, Off The Wall, Triumph re-releases? If they don’t think concerts are Suitable for worldwide release because of unusable audio why not then upload some of them on YouTube? WHY NOT? Seriously what is the problem? I don’t get it. It’s the lack of creativity that bothers me the most and then they try to write of fans like we’re asking for everything in the vault all at once.

End of rant//
All of it is trash and not needed. Even the Prince fans aren't buying any of that, because Prince seems to be nowhere on the radar in terms of sales and charts.

Meanwhile........





Regardless of what some fans want to see done and in spite of what they believe about what's going on in the music world, other deceased Estates ARE envious of MJ's numbers and of how successful his legacy is. This is ESPECIALLY significant when we consider how so many people have tried (and failed) at taking Michael down, as recently as just two years ago. There is no Broadway show for these other deceased artists....there is no HIGHLY successful resident show in Las Vegas. Fans can try to dismiss those, if they wish, but like it or not, they ARE a big deal. Also a big deal are the significant wins that the Estate is having and has always had in the courts, on behalf of Michael - the next win will be against HBO.

Side note - we already have other threads exactly like this one.
 
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Mikky Dee

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I only have a very mild interest in demos, scratch vocals, instrumentals, old work tapes and the like. I would love to see footage from inside the recording studios, to watch Michael at work (if there is any) but other than that, I am happy with the finished work that Michael left behind. I have purchased most of the posthumous projects for curiosity value and so that my collection would be more complete and up to date. That's all.
 

femi

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All of it is trash and not needed. Even the Prince fans aren't buying any of that, because Prince seems to be nowhere on the radar in terms of sales and charts.


The unreleased Prince is not trash, it's great. A lot of fire gems has been released from the Prince Estate. The Prince Estate is doing a great job these past years since they have established after Prince's passing. Lots of Prince fans are buying the new content, Diehards and Neutral fans. Prince just got another Top 10 album, with surprisingly "Welcome 2 America" (since it was very prolific, too powerful for the ears, and cause Prince might didn't even want that to be released). A lot of LPs and CDs were sold. When it came to Prince, it didn't matter about numbers, status, or charts, it was about the music. Prince could care less if he was on the charts or not. Yes, he is no where near MJ in "sales and charts", but that doesn't matter, just the music and releases. The Prince Estate is doing a great job in terms of releases, really well. As well as opening the Paisley Park museum, that was a very good move, they do screening of unreleased concerts at Paisley many times a year. And I'm not talking about just ONE concert, they stream many concert footage and pieces at Paisley. (which the MJ Estate should take note) So they are doing really great.
 

Mikky Dee

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Seriously? C'mon.
Yes, seriously. I should have added, in my opinion, of course, but there are statistics to prove my point about sales, streaming, chart positions, etc. Prince is never on any lists, Top 100s of this and that....whilst Michael is ALWAYS there. There are no slot machines all over the world using the image and music of Prince, or any of these other deceased artists; no partnerships with giants in the business of pop culture tributes and collectibles, such as Hot Toys and Kraken, amongst others. The list goes on.
 

Mikky Dee

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The unreleased Prince is not trash, it's great. A lot of fire gems has been released from the Prince Estate. The Prince Estate is doing a great job these past years since they have established after Prince's passing. Lots of Prince fans are buying the new content, Diehards and Neutral fans. Prince just got another Top 10 album, with surprisingly "Welcome 2 America" (since it was very prolific, too powerful for the ears, and cause Prince might didn't even want that to be released). A lot of LPs and CDs were sold. When it came to Prince, it didn't matter about numbers, status, or charts, it was about the music. Prince could care less if he was on the charts or not. Yes, he is no where near MJ in "sales and charts", but that doesn't matter, just the music and releases. The Prince Estate is doing a great job in terms of releases, really well. As well as opening the Paisley Park museum, that was a very good move, they do screening of unreleased concerts at Paisley many times a year. And I'm not talking about just ONE concert, they stream many concert footage and pieces at Paisley. (which the MJ Estate should take note) So they are doing really great.
Meh. I guess one has to be a fan of Prince's one dimensional style and his 88% sexual content in lyrics. I am not. LOL
 

femi

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Meh. I guess one has to be a fan of Prince's one dimensional style and his 88% sexual content in lyrics. I am not. LOL
Prince had many styles in his music. He's definitely not one dimensional lol. Contrary to popular belief, Prince didn't always write about sex or always had sex in his music or mind. I know that's what some of you guys think, but its not true at all. He wrote and talked about many topics and things. Prince always had an ear for good music, different flavors and styles. I'm saying this for the record, Prince is not all about Purple Rain. He was much bigger than that. His talent and gift was something else. But many, many people underestimate Prince. And they don't see what he could do. They think his talent, craft, and songs stopped at Purple Rain, which is not true. He kept going. But I understand what your saying, cause you don't know much about him. You wouldn't understand where I'm coming from, cause you haven't seen him like that. Your not a fan.
 

Mikky Dee

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I don't see what mj being in the charts has to do with the topic of this thread tbh. The biggest artist to ever exist is still charting, shocking.
My comments about the charts were in response to someone saying that other Estates are not jealous of the MJ Estate, nor of how well Michael's legacy is doing. I was saying that they are jealous and they should be jealous, too. My comments are also relevant, in the context that the Estate doesn't need to release everything but the kitchen sink (like the Prince Estate is doing), considering how all that MJ created and released in his lifetime is doing FAR better than every other legacy artist (including Prince) and better than many living artists as well.
 

Mikky Dee

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That's not an excuse. Music should be about art, not money!
Music is about art while the artist is alive, sure, but it is also still about money. Michael absolutely DID care about sales and chart positions, otherwise he wouldn't have written visualisation notes to himself on his mirror, about how many albums he wanted to sell and how he wanted to be the greatest performer in the world.
 

Mikky Dee

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Prince had many styles in his music. He's definitely not one dimensional lol. Contrary to popular belief, Prince didn't always write about sex or always had sex in his music or mind. I know that's what some of you guys think, but its not true at all. He wrote and talked about many topics and things. Prince always had an ear for good music, different flavors and styles. I'm saying this for the record, Prince is not all about Purple Rain. He was much bigger than that. His talent and gift was something else. But many, many people underestimate Prince. And they don't see what he could do. They think his talent, craft, and songs stopped at Purple Rain, which is not true. He kept going. But I understand what your saying, cause you don't know much about him. You wouldn't understand where I'm coming from, cause you haven't seen him like that. Your not a fan.
I have actually researched the amount of sexual content in Prince's catalogue. I didn't just make up the figure of 88%. ;)
 

mj_frenzy

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Prince's most released music was not one-dimensional referring only to sex.

Also, there is no exact percentage of Prince's released songs that refer only to sex.

Prince used the sex concept in many of his songs but in a metaphoric way in order to express other issues.

Also, Prince used to mix sex and religion/faith in many of his songs (because for him these two things were two sides of the same coin), so such a song could be either about sex or about religion (or about both of them) depending on the listener's interpretation of the song.

In terms of his streaming success and positions, Prince's music has been very popular and successful after his death.

For example, his streams reached half a billion streams in 2018-2019 which is a huge number, while his albums sold more than 300,000 copies in the same period.

The rate of Prince's sales will continue to increase (and they will not return to his pre-death levels) as this is what normally happens after a famous artist dies unexpectedly.
 

femi

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My comments about the charts were in response to someone saying that other Estates are not jealous of the MJ Estate, nor of how well Michael's legacy is doing. I was saying that they are jealous and they should be jealous, too. My comments are also relevant, in the context that the Estate doesn't need to release everything but the kitchen sink (like the Prince Estate is doing), considering how all that MJ created and released in his lifetime is doing FAR better than every other legacy artist (including Prince) and better than many living artists as well.
LOL. They are not jealous, they could care less about the MJ Estate. They have their own business too. They not worried about who's running or how's MJ Estate doing, they are not worried about them. The Prince Estate is not gonna release everything, they have their own philosophy too, you know. There is going to be some things, they are not going to release as well. Give Prince some credit. Prince did some remarkable stuff in his career too. Of course its not going to be up to MJ so-called "level"(which I really don't like those comparisons) But nobody cares about stats and streams, in the end, we care about the MUSIC. Stats, Charts, and Streams does not equal musical talent, musicianship, or musical legacy. Because in the end, all these high numbers, awards, and recognition are not relevant. The music and the music gift is relevant. So which I mean Prince did really good in his career, even though people still deny that and tries to compare him. Might've not been to MJ's "stat" level, but who cares. His music is good.
 

elusive moonwalker

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That's not an excuse. Music should be about art, not money!
Its not an excuse its just the realiity of it. Releasing a few demos etc isnt going to make them 100's of millions. Thats probably how they see it. Of course striking a balance would be good but they are top business people and success to them comes in the form of $ signs
 

SmoothGangsta

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My comments about the charts were in response to someone saying that other Estates are not jealous of the MJ Estate, nor of how well Michael's legacy is doing. I was saying that they are jealous and they should be jealous, too. My comments are also relevant, in the context that the Estate doesn't need to release everything but the kitchen sink (like the Prince Estate is doing), considering how all that MJ created and released in his lifetime is doing FAR better than every other legacy artist (including Prince) and better than many living artists as well.

I very much doubt the Prince estate are so bored that they are analysing what the MJ estate are doing (which isn't much). A weird world when there's people arguing that getting more content is a bad thing just to defend The Estate.
 

Korgnex

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Making a profit - option #1:
The movie, TV and game industry regularly issues remasters, remakes and reboots. Why? Because it's easier than taking the risk with material you don't know if it will have an audience big enough.
People are complaining about it and want more fresh original works.

Making a profit - option #2:
The Estate of Prince is constantly issuing unreleased material because that works for them to make a profit. There's not a big buzz about Prince besides these releases. There are no big deals to make much money when it comes to Prince.

Making a profit - option #3:
The MJ estate has some very lucrative deals with the brand "MJ" that make use of his image, likeliness and his overall popularity in the pop culture. MJ has been a phenomen like no other in the industry. His back catalogue alone with the help of new monetization models (digital streaming royalties) make sure there's a huge profit each year. Now they have very, very little incentive to release unreleased music - because it simply isn't what gets them the big $$ these days. And video restoration is even more risky because a) physical market is pretty low, b) piracy is very high and c) you don't get a lucrative deal with Netflix, Amazon or any big online distributor just for some old music videos. In other words: a) it doesn't get them millions of subsribers to paid services, b) it will be instantly pirated and c) noone would pay the MJ estate enough for it. And what would be "enough"? When it comes to "MJ" - unlike with other artists - (almost) every single person involved with the music videos who has a say on material or rights just wants big $$$ for this and that. Additionally, the later videos' F/X would all have to be re-done from scratch because they were edited on video tape which was the norm back then. What else is there? Material with companies like Pepsi and Disney who have no interest to get involved with the brand "MJ" because of his damaged reputation due to false allegations that have become again a "freshly" talked about topic - thanks to Dan Reed, another scam artist - just like Trump's successful lies that dominate world news. "Moonwalker" is the only one thing that's out. "Thriller" will come some day, "Ghosts" is still too unpopular and with too many legal issues to become a reality anytime soon.
 

Nite Line

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Funny I was on Prince.org the other day and some Prince fans weren’t happy with the Prince Estate, so this notion that fans of Prince are super happy with his estate isn’t true.

Also, Prince’s estate don’t have to deal with legal troubles that the MJ Estate have had to deal with. I am confident that if Leaving Neverland didn’t happen, we would have got some new music in the last 3 years.

I don’t get annoyed by the lack of releases, because Michael’s estate are a reflection of Michael himself, when it comes to releases. Michael used to take his sweet time between albums. 5 years between Thriller and Bad. 6 years between History and Invincible. No new release in the last 8 years of his life.

On the other hand, Prince’s estate are a reflection of Prince. They release new material every year just like Prince used to.

I think people need to chill and enjoy the music that Michael released in his lifetime. They are many dead artists whose fans are never blessed with any posthumous music. We have had over 20 unreleased songs released posthumously, so I think MJ fans are quite lucky. Eventually, one day the well will dry out and people need to remember that.
 

AlwaysThere

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If posthumous projects had any influence on anything, Prince would at the very least equal MJ in annual sales (he’s nowhere close) and streaming numbers (he trails by 18mil monthly listeners and 400+ ranking points on Spotify). And yet, every project his estate has released has faded into irrelevancy within days of its debut, and none ever find themselves re-charting. Same with everything the MJE has done. Why is that? Perhaps because posthumous projects exists solely to satiate a fan base, and are a privilege, not a necessity?

Furthermore, despite being deluged with material over the past few years, Prince fans are far from happy with his estate. Why is that? Perhaps because the “stan” mentality tends to permeate every fan base, and MJ and Prince fans are often just as bad as Beyoncé and Bieber fans?

That’s all I’ll say about that.
 
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