Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate Thread (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

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BabeBeMine

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

2007 MJ is ready to record, His brother Tito has a very nice studio. His sons 3t are there.

MJ chooses to record and stay with the Cascio's......Very Interesting
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Yeah. Non-Michael fans love lyrics like 'Mama say mama got you in a zigzag' and 'she works in a restaurant night and daaaaay.' Non-Michael fans love ridiculous and trivial lyrics. Apparently.

I think the Keep Your Head Up lyrics are not trivial at all. They are inspirational. The restaurant line made me really envision poor America that has to multiple low-paid, low-appreciated jobs with which they can hardly get by. You must feel stuck in a repetitive poor life with hardly any hope for it to get better. I don't get why you single out that line continuously as it isn't stupid at all. The first line you quoted I didn't even hear. I presume you believe that Michael has had absolutely nothing to do with these songs, not singing, not writing, as you ridicule the lyrics all the time. Even if I were to believe Michael did not sing these songs, the lyrics have Michael's hand spelled all over them. Aren't you afraid you are insulting Michael's songwriting here?
 

BabeBeMine

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

I think the Keep Your Head Up lyrics are not trivial at all. They are inspirational. The restaurant line made me really envision poor America that has to multiple low-paid, low-appreciated jobs with which they can hardly get by. You must feel stuck in a repetitive poor life with hardly any hope for it to get better. I don't get why you single out that line continuously as it isn't stupid at all. The first line you quoted I didn't even hear. I presume you believe that Michael has had absolutely nothing to do with these songs, not singing, not writing, as you ridicule the lyrics all the time. Even if I were to believe Michael did not sing these songs, the lyrics have Michael's hand spelled all over them. Aren't you afraid you are insulting Michael's songwriting here?

PREACH....Great Post
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Footage will prove MJ is on the Cacsio tracks. It will also show that was Michael's family at 47, 48, 49 years old. Not his own family.

Question? Was MJ in the year 2007 chillin, eating dinner and living with TITO, 3t or Jermaine. NOPE

I wonder why. Instead he was staying with the Cascios in there basement.

3T speaks highly of MJ. How come he wasn't with them in 2007?

TITO does have a studio, but MJ wasn't there. How come?

By the sounds of it, he also wasn't anywhere near the Cascios studio, either.

Either way, we all wait, with baited breath, for this footage that you talk about. Where Michael Jackson records 12 songs in 4 months - more songs than he recorded in years. That were registered 2 days after he died.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Aren't you afraid you are insulting Michael's songwriting here?

Seriously, don't make me laugh. These songs and these lyrics are an abomination. And I don't believe Michael Jackson knew anything about them. Michael Jackson has NEVER written anything as ridiculous or as trivial as these terrible songs.
 

BabeBeMine

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

He recorded 12 demos. Some required additional background vocals and beats. Whats wrong with that?

The song "Blue Gangster" Sounds nice, but that beat needs MAJOR WORK along with the instrumental in order for RADIO to play it.
 

L.T.D

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Footage will prove MJ is on the Cacsio tracks. It will also show that was Michael's family at 47, 48, 49 years old. Not his own family.

Question? Was MJ in the year 2007 chillin, eating dinner and living with TITO, 3t or Jermaine. NOPE

I wonder why. Instead he was staying with the Cascios in there basement.

3T speaks highly of MJ. How come he wasn't with them in 2007?

TITO does have a studio, but MJ wasn't there. How come?

He spent most of his life being around his brothers and family. Damn, I guess because he wasnt around his brothers for 4 months in 2007 that means they have lost all their credability!

Thats like me saying, why werent the Cascio's accompanying Michael to court in 2005?

He recorded 12 demos. Some required additional background vocals and beats. Whats wrong with that?

The song "Blue Gangster" Sounds nice, but that beat needs MAJOR WORK along with the instrumental in order for RADIO to play it.

here's nothing wrong with Blue Gangsta, it has become one of my favourite MJ songs actually. I'm sure MJ would have touched it up a bit though.
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

^ Samhabib: You like being rude. That's ok. Obviously you could not come up with a proper answer to my questions. It's not as if you know that Michael did not write those lyrics. I believe people when they say their ears don't hear Michael, but to just disregard the lyrics is quite arrogant and risky if you ask me.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

^ Samhabib: You like being rude. That's ok. Obviously you could not come up with a proper answer to my questions. It's not as if you know that Michael did not write those lyrics. I believe people when they say their ears don't hear Michael, but to just disregard the lyrics is quite arrogant and risky if you ask me.

Yeah, you need to know a bit more about the profundity of Michael Jackson. That's the issue here. Michael Jackson, as a songwriter, was NEVER trivial. NEVER. Michael Jackson, as a songwriter, ALWAYS had something important to say. From invoking Martin Luther King, to paraphrasing Jesse Jackson and Malcolm X, to preaching his gospel. "Mama say mama got you in a zigzag" is a complete and utter abomination. And I'd thank you to elevate your opinions about Michael Jackson and his art. He was a political leader. Not a pop star with nothing to say.
 

BabeBeMine

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

MJ was around his family of course. Because that's his family.

Business and music he wanted to seperate from them as far back as the Victory Tour

MJ didn't even want to do that tour.....24, 25 years old at the time

Speed it up to MJ at close to 50...and also consider many of his brothers tried to go see him only to have security guards reject them.....CANT BE THAT CLOSE

Would MJ Reject Liz Tayor at the front gate? Doubt it....He sure did to Jermaine and Randy

Mike was like...Who's that? Security, its yo brothers.....Tell em im sleep

I doubt if the Cascio's have stories like this because Mike trusted them and enjoyed being around them.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

MJ was around his family of course. Because that's his family.

Business and music he wanted to seperate from them as far back as the Victory Tour

MJ didn't even want to do that tour.....24, 25 years old at the time

Speed it up to MJ at close to 50...and also consider many of his brothers tried to go see him only to have security guards reject them.....CANT BE THAT CLOSE

Would MJ Reject Liz Tayor at the front gate? Doubt it....He sure did to Jermaine and Randy

Mike was like...Who's that? Security, its yo brothers.....Tell em im sleep

I doubt if the Cascio's have stories like this because Mike trusted them and enjoyed being around them.

I don't know why you feel the need to convince anyone. If you've seen Michael recording these songs, that's all you need to know.
 

siakfam

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

The 3 Cascio tracks are not Michael Jackson. I am certain enough to almost put my life on it. It is Jason Malachi... people that believe other wise are in total denial.

I know this because I was one of them. When the album first came out I avoided these forums and just listened to the CD but for some reason every time I listened to the three tracks it just didn't sound like Michael... and the more i listened to tracks the more and more I could not hear Michael AT ALL.

I bought the album only because I don't want Michael to be attacked by the media... and there are 7 unreal tracks on the album that I love.

I like the beats to Monster and Breaking news... but it would truly be better if it were really Michael Jackson.

I hate $ony for putting us in this hard position. We are not sheep.... arghhhhh

What are we going to do? To uncover this fraudulent activity?

Where has the thread gone where we were trying to get some money to hire our own expert to authenticate the lyrics?
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Yeah, you need to know a bit more about the profundity of Michael Jackson. That's the issue here. Michael Jackson, as a songwriter, was NEVER trivial. NEVER. Michael Jackson, as a songwriter, ALWAYS had something important to say. From invoking Martin Luther King, to paraphrasing Jesse Jackson and Malcolm X, to preaching his gospel. "Mama say mama got you in a zigzag" is a complete and utter abomination. And I'd thank you to elevate your opinions about Michael Jackson and his art. He was a political leader. Not a pop star with nothing to say.
'

I see you edited your previous post. That's good.

I don't doubt Michael's writing talent at all. I really don't think Keep Your Head Up is trivial at all. It's simple and straightforward, not stupid. Some of MJ's lyrics are simple, not political, for Michael for example Much too Soon and Behind The Mask. Also I do recall Michael wrote once: you're a vegetable, you're a vegetable. Not really political at first sight, huh? You make him more onedimensional than he actually was, and that's a pity because from your passionate posts I do understand that's not your intention. The man had range. That was what made him unique. He could write lightheartedly and poetic, political, and fun. Also, his vocal abilities were all over the place, which is I believe part of the reason this Cascio discussion exists in the first place.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

'

I see you edited your previous post. That's good.

I don't doubt Michael's writing talent at all. I really don't think Keep Your Head Up is trivial at all. It's simple and straightforward, not stupid. Some of MJ's lyrics are simple, not political, for Michael for example Much too Soon and Behind The Mask. Also I do recall Michael wrote once: you're a vegetable, you're a vegetable. Not really political at first sight, huh? You make him more onedimensional than he actually was, and that's a pity because from your passionate posts I do understand that's not your intention. The man had range. That was what made him unique. He could write lightheartedly and poetic, political, and fun. Also, his vocal abilities were all over the place, which is I believe part of the reason this Cascio discussion exists in the first place.

I'll never, in a million years, believe Michael's vocals were 'all over the place' leading him to sound as weak and limp as the vocalist on the Cascio tracks.

'You're a vegetable' is VERY serious. It's not light-hearted AT ALL. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' is VERY political. in fact, it's a political masterpiece.

One dimensional? You're joking, right? What you, and the other Cascio-track lovers, are all claiming is this... Michael Jackson has suffered the worst trial of his life, where he's literally faced the prospect, day-in, day-out, of facing his life A. without his children and B. behind bars, and that after having suffered that he had nothing more important to say than 'mama say mama got you in a zig zag' and 'she works in a restaurant night and daaaaaay'.

If you believe that? Believe it. But me? Not only do I not believe it but I ALSO believe it's a HUGE insult to Michael Jackson and to Michael Jackson's legacy.
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

I'll never, in a million years, believe Michael's vocals were 'all over the place' leading him to sound as weak and limp as the vocalist on the Cascio tracks.

'You're a vegetable' is VERY serious. It's not light-hearted AT ALL. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' is VERY political. in fact, it's a political masterpiece.

One dimensional? You're joking, right? What you, and the other Cascio-track lovers, are all claiming is this... Michael Jackson has suffered the worst trial of his life, where he's literally faced the prospect, day-in, day-out, of facing his life A. without his children and B. behind bars, and that after having suffered that he had nothing more important to say than 'mama say mama got you in a zig zag' and 'she works in a restaurant night and daaaaaay'.

If you believe that? Believe it. But me? Not only do I not believe it but I ALSO believe it's a HUGE insult to Michael Jackson and to Michael Jackson's legacy.

Well, well. I don't think we will convince each other here. If you want to make everything Michael did political, fine go ahead. John Lennon he was not. There was more to him than that, luckily. I'll repeat, RANGE was his power. Range in writing, vocals, dancing, evoking emotions, public. I'm out of this thread now, as you keep repeating those two lines as the most ridiculous thing ever when I just think they are not (let's keep the thread to Keep Your Head Up). It's a beautiful song with a strong message and it has power. I'm out.
 

mehdiblanket

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Keep the faith and will you be there are Michael's song


They are hot ,not like this Keep your head up ,l can't feel his voice here ,only his shout that was taken from Earth song.
 

Deniro UK

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Yeah, you need to know a bit more about the profundity of Michael Jackson. That's the issue here. Michael Jackson, as a songwriter, was NEVER trivial. NEVER. Michael Jackson, as a songwriter, ALWAYS had something important to say. From invoking Martin Luther King, to paraphrasing Jesse Jackson and Malcolm X, to preaching his gospel. "Mama say mama got you in a zigzag" is a complete and utter abomination. And I'd thank you to elevate your opinions about Michael Jackson and his art. He was a political leader. Not a pop star with nothing to say.

Because songs like Speed Demon and 2000 Watts have important heartfelt messages, among others. The whole 'MJ would never write this crap' argument is so ridiculous and desperate. Hand picking ONE line from a song to back up your point is silly. He could write beautiful pieces, emotional pieces, aggressive pieces, but he could also write some bloody good pop songs which are FUN.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Well, well. I don't think we will convince each other here. If you want to make everything Michael did political, fine go ahead. John Lennon he was not. There was more to him than that, luckily. I'll repeat, RANGE was his power. Range in writing, vocals, dancing, evoking emotions, public. I'm out of this thread now, as you keep repeating those two lines as the most ridiculous thing ever when I just think they are not (let's keep the thread to Keep Your Head Up). It's a beautiful song with a strong message and it has power. I'm out.

It's a pathetic attempt at writing a 'Michael Jackson like' song.

Michael Jackson was everything that John Lennon was and more, in my opinion. And, as mentioned earlier, Wanna Be Startin Somethin is HUGELY political. So to point at the lyrics on that track is completely self-defeating. The refrain 'Lift your head up high, and scream out to the world, "I know I am someone"' is pure Jesse Jackson. Almost down to the letter.

So forgive me for having more respect for Michael's songwriting ability.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Because songs like Speed Demon and 2000 Watts have important heartfelt messages, among others. The whole 'MJ would never write this crap' argument is so ridiculous and desperate. Hand picking ONE line from a song to back up your point is silly. He could write beautiful pieces, emotional pieces, aggressive pieces, but he could also write some bloody good pop songs which are FUN.

Speed Demon is HUGELY political. If you don't think so, you have no appreciation for the man's lyricism. An African American singing about being pulled over by a white policeman telling him 'pull over BOY and get your ticket'. And the bridge says 'you're preaching 'bout my life like you're the law, i'm gonna cherish each day and hour...'.

It's HUGELY political. If you don't think so, learn about the significance of the term 'boy' when used by a white racist against an African American. "Pull over BOY!"

There are 4 songwriters on 2000 Watts, hence it being a song about nothing. So you have no idea as to Michael's lyrical input on it.
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

It's a pathetic attempt at writing a 'Michael Jackson like' song.

Michael Jackson was everything that John Lennon was and more, in my opinion. And, as mentioned earlier, Wanna Be Startin Somethin is HUGELY political. So to point at the lyrics on that track is completely self-defeating. The refrain 'Lift your head up high, and scream out to the world, "I know I am someone"' is pure Jesse Jackson. Almost down to the letter.

So forgive me for having more respect for Michael's songwriting ability.

Well, in context of course WBSS is a meaningful track, but as you like to extract single lines out of songs to prove your point, I thought you didn't care much for context. A line of a song on itself can never be a reason to disregard an entire song, let alone built your entire belief about the songwriter around it. It's just uhm, what's the word, self-defeating, because you are oversimplifying the matter by taking these lines out of their context.
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

HUGELY political also, from each album: Don't stop, The Girl Is Mine, Liberian Girl, Dangerous, Stranger in Moscow, Blood on the Dance Floor, Behind the Mask. Some are fun, some are raunchy, some are autobiographical, some are sweet. They are all Michael and hardly political. Come on now.
 

samhabib

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Well, in context of course WBSS is a meaningful track, but as you like to extract single lines out of songs to prove your point, I thought you didn't care much for context. A line of a song on itself can never be a reason to disregard an entire song, let alone built your entire belief about the songwriter around it. It's just uhm, what's the word, self-defeating, because you are oversimplifying the matter by taking these lines out of their context.

No. It's the complete opposite of 'self-defeating' actually.

Michael Jackson was a musical God. 'She's working two jobs... she works in a restaurant night and day...' is so beneath him it's unreal. But if you want to believe that he would write something like that, feel free.
 

Deniro UK

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Not every song Michael wrote has to be political, not every song has to have personal meanings or emotions, he is allowed to write FUN songs. Even Monster is a song about the paparazzi, it does have meaning but it is fun. There are so many songs I could list that aren't political, or are soppy love songs, or the majority of Off The Wall.
 

Deniro UK

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

No. It's the complete opposite of 'self-defeating' actually.

Michael Jackson was a musical God. 'She's working two jobs... she works in a restaurant night and day...' is so beneath him it's unreal. But if you want to believe that he would write something like that, feel free.

'She's working two jobs, keeping alive... she works in a restaurant night and day' and 'she's dying inside, every time her baby cries'

It's telling a story, a story a lot of people in this world will be able to relate to.

Oh and if we're gonna pick out lines from songs: 'Why does Monday, come before Tuesday?'
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Not every song Michael wrote has to be political, not every song has to have personal meanings or emotions, he is allowed to write FUN songs. Even Monster is a song about the paparazzi, it does have meaning but it is fun. There are so many songs I could list that aren't political, or are soppy love songs, or the majority of Off The Wall.

I agree. But I have to say Monster is more than fun to me. I find the lyrics to be really layered. Who's the Monster here? Sometimes it sounds as if the haunting makes Michael himself feel like a monster, or is he afraid to be viewed as such, or are the monsters just everywhere around him. I feel like he describes the entire world get deformed around him (mentioning of mirror), and he can't recognise things for what they are anymore. But at the same time he has made this wonderful song about it and thus conquered all the monstrousity, with help of 50, who makes it very clear who's undefeated and king.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Not every song Michael wrote has to be political, not every song has to have personal meanings or emotions, he is allowed to write FUN songs.

Who said he wasn't? But every song he wrote and recorded was profound. And anything but trivial.

There are so many songs I could list that aren't political, or are soppy love songs, or the majority of Off The Wall.

No there aren't.
 

Roosje

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

'She's working two jobs, keeping alive... she works in a restaurant night and day' and 'she's dying inside, every time her baby cries'

It's telling a story, a story a lot of people in this world will be able to relate to.

Oh and if we're gonna pick out lines from songs: 'Why does Monday, come before Tuesday?'

Very political. Which power construction is behind the order of the days? Who decides? :lol:;) I agree about Keep Your Head Up, very meaningful and sadly the life story of many.
 

Deniro UK

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

No there aren't.

Don't Stop
Get on the Floor
Shake Your Body
PYT
The girl is mine
Liberian Girl
I just can't stop loving you
The Way You Make Me Feel
She Drives Me Wild
Can't Let Her Get Away
Who Is It
Give in to Me
Dangerous
Gone Too Soon
Childhood
On The Line
Unbreakable
Invincible
Heartbreaker
2000 Watts
Break of Dawn
Heaven can Wait
Butterflies
Speechless
Privacy
Whatever Happens
Threatened
The Way You Love Me
Behind the Mask
Another Day
Much Too Soon
Best of Joy
Hold My Hand

Plus countless others that he sung which had no political relevance, as well as other love songs, Off The Wall album. I am probably incorrect with some of the songs but this is off the top of my head so apologies if so.
 

samhabib

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Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Don't Stop
Get on the Floor
Shake Your Body
PYT
The girl is mine
Liberian Girl
I just can't stop loving you
The Way You Make Me Feel
She Drives Me Wild
Can't Let Her Get Away
Who Is It
Give in to Me
Dangerous
Gone Too Soon
Childhood
On The Line
Unbreakable
Invincible
Heartbreaker
2000 Watts
Break of Dawn
Heaven can Wait
Butterflies
Speechless
Privacy
Whatever Happens
Threatened
The Way You Love Me
Behind the Mask
Another Day
Much Too Soon
Best of Joy
Hold My Hand

Plus countless others that he sung which had no political relevance, as well as other love songs, Off The Wall album. I am probably incorrect with some of the songs but this is off the top of my head so apologies if so.

Incredible. Over half of those songs you've posted were not even written by him! For the record, matters of the heart are anything BUT trivial. So the love songs you've quoted were a waste of your time and mine.

Liberian Girl - very political. World's most famous star, eclipses The Beatles and Elvis, celebrates African beauty. I think that's INCREDIBLY political.

Give In To Me - speculation has been that the song is about his relationship with his father. Which makes that anything but trivial.

Who Is It - trivial? Really?

Dangerous - he quotes/paraphrases the bible throughout that song. Trivial? You sure you understand the meaning of the word?

What a complete waste of time.
 
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