Lady gaga gaining on Michael on FB

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mjscarousal

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Record sales are a form of validation, Guinness Records are a form of valdiation, as are other measures. Michael did like being number one. He wanted Thriller to be the biggest selling album, which means being Number one.

I remember his face at his announcement of the TII tour, he was overwhelmed by the reception. It meant something for him to see that excitement and love from fans again. He's a human being and to have 20 million facebook followers, when his contemporaries like Prince and Madonna, only have a fraction of that number, I do believe would have given him a feel good moment. That's all it gives to some of his fans too. A feel good moment for him. And yeah, with him gone, we embrace the moment. It's nothing more or less than that.


Those number ones that Michael broke were from credible reliable sources and most of them were during a time the music industry was different. Today's music industry is more centered around popularity and the internet which are really not accurate measurements of success. Once again, I highly doubt Michael would care about a video site and face book. Michael has NOTHING to prove because has already proved it. Not only that, I highly doubt he would be worry about two artists that are no where in his league. I think its sad that even Michael Jackson fans try to place Michael in the same category as these artists out now when there is no competition. The media is playing games and will tell you want think you want to here even though that is not the reality of what it is. I personally dont see why it would be important to you as MJ fan when there are plenty of great material on youtube by great artists that nevers get views not just Michael. There are artists everyday that get nothing while artists who are not talented, who are very generic get praise. So why would you want validation from sources who obviously only cares about popularity, what sells, and based being number one on how many times someone clicks to view the video which (could be the same people)? Its very kiddish and not worth the time when Michael is much MORE than Facebook and Youtube I mean seriously
 

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Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. She does not deserve to be in the same sentence as Michael.
 

gerryevans

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Those number ones that Michael broke were from credible reliable sources and most of them were during a time the music industry was different. Today's music industry is more centered around popularity and the internet which are really not accurate measurements of success.

Just because times are different doesn't mean irrelevance. Like I said, I agree sites like youtube and facebook don't have a lot of credibility but they are peripheral guages of interest and popularity, similar to things like Yahoo or Google Top 10 searches. And the music business has ALWAYS been greatly popularity driven.

Once again, I highly doubt Michael would care about a video site and face book.

It certainly would not make or break his day, but I do think it would give him that moment of satisfaction, not an important moment, but one just the same.

Michael has NOTHING to prove because has already proved it.

I totally agree.

Not only that, I highly doubt he would be worry about two artists that are no where in his league.

Worry about them? No. But he was highly competitive, that's one of the reasons he worked so hard. But he was mainly competitive with himself, surpassing that high bar was competition enough for anyone.

I think its sad that even Michael Jackson fans try to place Michael in the same category as these artists out now when there is no competition. The media is playing games and will tell you want think you want to here even though that is not the reality of what it is. I personally dont see why it would be important to you as MJ fan when there are plenty of great material on youtube by great artists that nevers get views not just Michael.

Never said it was important to me. I just like the idea of him doing well in anything and everything, today, yesterday, tomorrow, forever...whatever it is. I don't add any major significance to it, I just like it. I like his TII documentary was the #1 concert movie. I like his Thriller was the number one album, I like something as silly as the number of facebook followers having my angel with 20 million of them.

If you don't, you don't. It doesn't mean I need validation of his greatness or someone who doesn't have an interest in such things is somehow more a valid fan.
 

mjscarousal

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Just because times are different doesn't mean irrelevance. Like I said, I agree sites like youtube and facebook don't have a lot of credibility but they are peripheral guages of interest and popularity, similar to things like Yahoo or Google Top 10 searches. And the music business has ALWAYS been greatly popularity driven.



It certainly would not make or break his day, but I do think it would give him that moment of satisfaction, not an important moment, but one just the same.



I totally agree.



Worry about them? No. But he was highly competitive, that's one of the reasons he worked so hard. But he was mainly competitive with himself, surpassing that high bar was competition enough for anyone.



Never said it was important to me. I just like the idea of him doing well in anything and everything, today, yesterday, tomorrow, forever...whatever it is. I don't add any major significance to it, I just like it. I like his TII documentary was the #1 concert movie. I like his Thriller was the number one album, I like something as silly as the number of facebook followers having my angel with 20 million of them.

If you don't, you don't. It doesn't mean I need validation of his greatness or someone who doesn't have an interest in such things is somehow more a valid fan.

If it would not make or break him then why care about it? Because to me what I get from that comment is that basically your saying being number one on youtube and facebook isnt a big deal (which it isnt) and that being that its not significant to Michael (which it isnt.)

:lol: You keep saying that you dont need validation but you wanting Michael to have more views than gaga and Justin is wanting validation of being number one from a source.
I think any fan would like for Michael to do well but I dont think your grasping the fact that Youtube and Facbook are very meaningless especially when it comes to Michael Jackson who is WAY more above that and not to mention way above the artists that you want Michael to compete with. At this point, I dont really care if Michael is number one in the eyes of the media because I dont need that from media. I dont need medias validation of Michael being number one because I know he ALREADY is and forever will be THE number ONE artist of all time his talent, legacy, music, dance, contribution, impact, influence, awards, sells, humanitarian efforts speaks for it self
 

gerryevans

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If it would not make or break him then why care about it?

Well, like your horoscope. It's trivial. You don't really care about it, may think it's absolutely ridiculous, but if on your birthday, someone tells you yours says you're about to win a million dollar sweepstake, you laugh it off, but it's still a pleasant thought for you...especially if earlier that day your boss told you you're not getting that raise you wanted.


You keep saying that you dont need validation but you wanting Michael to have more views than gaga and Justin is wanting validation of being number one from a source.

I keep saying I don't need it because it's true. I don't need validation for MJ. But if we want to get a little deeper here, MJ was always seeking a form of it. He said it all the time. "All I want is to be loved". Acceptance and recognition were very important to him. Winners of the American Music Awards are a result of public polls. Who's to say how many times voters actually contrive to vote. It's nothing but a popularity contest, but when MU won several for his first solo album Off the Wall, he grinned from ear to ear. It meant something to him. Grammy winners too are derived from subjective opinion. They may be the opinion of those in his industry, but it all still boils down to opinion, popularity, and a large dose of politics. When the Grammy's ignored OTW, it devastated him. He set out for his next album to be one that could not be ignored.

MJ spent his life striving to be the best to exact positive response, finding from children ready acceptance, without expectation. He didn't need to be the very best to get approval from them, they didn't ask things of him, they just liked him for who he was. Most of his fans love him the same way. He connected to us on a level I don't think he understood. I certainly don't understand it. I love the man as deeply as if he was kin.

But getting back on topic of the trivials like yt and fb....

I think any fan would like for Michael to do well but I dont think your grasping the fact that Youtube and Facbook are very meaningless especially when it comes to Michael Jackson who is WAY more above that and not to mention way above the artists that you want Michael to compete with. At this point, I dont really care if Michael is number one in the eyes of the media because I dont need that from media. I dont need medias validation of Michael being number one because I know he ALREADY is and forever will be THE number ONE artist of all time his talent, legacy, music, dance, contribution, impact, influence, awards, sells, humanitarian efforts speaks for it self

...I totally grasp them, but I like him ranking high in them. I like thinking millions upon millions APPRECIATE him. Even if it's a FALSE impression created by just ten folks (who have way too much time on their hands) clicking like crazy to up his views on youtube or adding themselves multiple times as followers or whatever on facebook.

If you "think any fan likes for Michael to do well", then some of them liking him doing well in trivial matters too shouldn't be such a stretch or an indication that they don't know he "ALREADY is and forever will be THE number ONE artist of all time."

ETA: I've enjoyed this exchange with you. Thanks....although I know we'll never agree.
 
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mjscarousal

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I keep saying I don't need it because it's true. I don't need validation for MJ. But if we want to get a little deeper here, MJ was always seeking a form of it. He said it all the time. "All I want is to be loved". Acceptance and recognition were very important to him. Winners of the American Music Awards are a result of public polls. Who's to say how many times voters actually contrive to vote. It's nothing but a popularity contest, but when MU won several for his first solo album Off the Wall, he grinned from ear to ear. It meant something to him. Grammy winners too are derived from subjective opinion. They may be the opinion of those in his industry, but it all still boils down to opinion, popularity, and a large dose of politics. When the Grammy's ignored OTW, it devastated him. He set out for his next album to be one that could not be ignored.

You need to stop saying that you dont need it when its been obvious through out this whole conversation that that is what you want. If you didnt care about Michael getting ahead on facebook or youtube we would not be discussing this right now and you would be agreeing with me.

Michael did want validation but thats not the point of this conversation. The point is... why do YOU as a Michael Jackson fan need validation from media that Michael is number one. The only thing that should matter is what you already know... and what you already know is Michael is the greatest ever and no award show, or bullish youtube and facebook doesnt need to prove that with meaningless views to you and if you STILL need validation from meaningless things then your wasting your time and its ridiculous.




...I totally grasp them, but I like him ranking high in them.[.b]


Of course you do because you want validation even from meaningless things.

I like thinking millions upon millions APPRECIATE him. Even if it's a FALSE impression created by just ten folks (who have way too much time on their hands) clicking like crazy to up his views on youtube or adding themselves multiple times as followers or whatever on facebook.

Why should other peoples opinion matter to you? Your a Michael Jackson fan thats the only thing that should matter WHO CARES about what everyone else thinks. Its evidence that alot of people appreciate Michael, he would not have been or be successful without a mass majority of people admiring him.



ETA: I've enjoyed this exchange with you. Thanks....although I know we'll never agree.

I'm glad you have enjoyed it but other peoples opinion or validation should not make your fanhood for Michael Jackson anymore or any less. It really doesnt matter what other people think, the only thing that matters is what YOU think.
 

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Lady Gaga is probably the only person, at the moment in the music industry, that I can relate to Michael.

She's redefining platforms, and giving us something different.
I can't remember someone who has done this, except Michael.

Remember, that Michael LOVED Gaga. Probably because of her individuality, innovation and domination of popular culture.
Yeah, okay, her music may not be as original as other artists - but she's done what no current artist has done - she's researched popular culture and chose to dominate those aspects.

Very similar to Michael. Michael took over the way people thought of pop music - when it came to music videos, tours, merchandise, live performances, even fashion. Michael RULED Popular Culture. Gaga is following his footsteps in the perspective of Popular Culture, and she's doing an amazing job at it - and her album sales and status are showing it.
......she also does this with good intentions, as everything she does is devoted to liberate the 'minorities' in society, particularly the gay community. All with L.O.V.E.

If anything, I applause her for her efforts. It took her a damn long time, and a great amount of hard work to get her where she is now.
 

gerryevans

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You need to stop saying that you dont need it when its been obvious through out this whole conversation that that is what you want. If you didnt care about Michael getting ahead on facebook or youtube we would not be discussing this right now and you would be agreeing with me.

Well, I totally disagree with your understanding of my feelings, so I will continue to say it.

Why should other peoples opinion matter to you? Your a Michael Jackson fan thats the only thing that should matter WHO CARES about what everyone else thinks. Its evidence that alot of people appreciate Michael, he would not have been or be successful without a mass majority of people admiring him.

I'm glad you have enjoyed it but other peoples opinion or validation should not make your fanhood for Michael Jackson anymore or any less. It really doesnt matter what other people think, the only thing that matters is what YOU think.

Do I want people to appreciate MJ? Yes. He wasn't as he should have been in life IMO.
Do I NEED people to appreciate him for me to do so? No.
 

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I said it in another thread but if Facebook was around in the '80s & '90s MJ would easily have around 50-60 million. He's done extremely well to still be No.1
 

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Remember, that Michael LOVED Gaga.


He was said to have liked "Poker Face". That was a video done quite tastefully, until she began to distastefully embrace controversy in every video by resorting to desecration. No doubt she is talented and can play piano like a toy. However, so many buy into this 'shock value' thing, that fail to see how truly devastating Gaga's influence is.

"She dreams of fame
She changed her name
To one that fits the movie screen
She's headed for the big time, that means

She's going Hollywood"

"West bound Greyhound
To tinsel town
Just to pursue her movie star dreams
She's giving hot tricks to men
just to get in"

- "Hollywood Tonight", Michael J.


"All we care about is runway models
Cadillacs and liquor bottles
Give me something I wanna be
Retro glamour Hollywood, yes, we live for the
Fame, doin' it for the fame" - Lady Gaga, "The Fame"

The Steffani Germanotta girl was beautiful. Now she's Gaga. An easy girl. The adjective means being mentally or physically infirm with age. Steffani was singing her heart out and playing the piano, Gaga is mostly wearing meat dresses and promotes a specific sexual orientation ostentatiously and tastelessly, mocking Church's values by swallowing rosaries and wearing inverted crosses on her crotch area (i.e. 'Alejandro'), or on her bras. Steffani was a simple girl in control, Gaga is being used and abused (see videos for Alejandro or Telephone or "Bad Romance"), where she looks like a slice of meat being pushed in places, almost naked often. Looks like the slave she has become. 'Gaga' also means "crazy", "completely absorbed, infatuated or excited", as well as, again, senile. "Lady" seems to require respect for Gaga. She changed her identity, she admits to be an "occasionally" cocaine user, curses a lot, incites to scattermindedness by her way of behaving and dressing. Some fans in San Francisco at one point said she is doing drugs but others say, "It's nothing new, we already knew she was on something. You don't think about all those crazy things when you're sane and Lady GaGa is insane."

"Lady Gaga is my name. If you know me, and you call me Stefani, you don't really know me at all", she said. Which of course means she is denying her old self.

"I don't like Los Angeles. The people are awful and terribly shallow, and everybody wants to be famous but nobody wants to play the game. I'm from New York. I will kill to get what I need." - just a couple of her replies that kids and people today have a lot to learn from.

'Just know when
That glass is empty
That the world is gonna bend
Happy in the club with a bottle of red wine
Stars in our eyes 'cuz we're having a good time
Eh-eh
Eh-eh
So happy I could die
Be your best friend
Yeah I'll love you forever
Up in the clouds
We'll be higher than ever
Eh-eh
Eh-eh
So happy I could die
And it's alright."

Lady Gaga - So Happy I Could Die.


The critics love her often, the media does. She's got many followers all over the world. She made it. So why does it matter she lost her soul? She could have been a nice person, she can be sensitive and charitable at times. But she's mostly the person she deliberately chose to be and it's not a good one.
 

ScrEAm.Jack5on

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I understand your feelings, but Lady Gaga is in her "heyday". If there had been a FB when MJ started including his Jackson 5 days through the present, he'd have a hundred million if not 200 million followers by this time. All things being relative, his ranking is actually mindblowing to me.

It went up massively with all the attention on him when he died.

James Brown has 162,180 :no:
 

The One.

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I understand your feelings, but Lady Gaga is in her "heyday". If there had been a FB when MJ started including his Jackson 5 days through the present, he'd have a hundred million if not 200 million followers by this time. All things being relative, his ranking is actually mindblowing to me.
That's true.

Check again in a few years (if Facebook is still going strong :p) and see if Gaga still has as many likes. She may have, but it still doesn't mean she's better than Michael. :)
 

mysterygirl7

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People say that Michael loved lady gaga, but there's no proof of that.. he might have liked one song.. but I doubt that he was a big fan..


More people like youtube now, than lady gaga.. muahahahah :rofl::rofl:

The James Brown numbers are sad.. but then again.. it means nothing, because we all know that he is great, and we don't need facebook to verify that for us..
 

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She could have been a nice person, she can be sensitive and charitable at times. But she's mostly the person she deliberately chose to be and it's not a good one.

Lady Gaga didn't choose to be a person. She is what she is. Her personality is intended to liberate the 'freaks' in society - those who feel like they are nothing, whether it's wearing a meat dress or bleeding on stage - she comments on society in the most confronting way possible, to give the audience these messages.

Like Michael Jackson, her intentions are entirely positive and incredibly selfless. Every action she does is for her fans, and helps people - like me - to feel comfortable with who I am.

She's not going 'Hollywood Tonight' and I think it's plain stupid that you included Michael's quotes to make her seem like Michael pitied her. She used to be heavy into drugs before her career took off and managed to save herself before it came too late and she discourages her previous lifestyle to her fans. This name change, you're on about, is not a change of persona, but more of a universal connection to every type of fan. No fan is felt like they are left out. Gaga purely wants her fans to celebrate themselves and love the bits they think are flawed. PURELY POSITIVE, just like Michael.

It's funny how when one artist starts to become incredibly successful, braking records and creating new platforms. You guys seem to be the first ones to attack them. Just like the media.

....and I find it quite upsetting, that you guys are so ready to judge an artist, based on how the media perceives them - vilified or glorified. As Michael Jackson fans, I thought you'd understand this and avoid tabloid influences. WWMJD?
 

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( Aargh I made a really long post that just got lost )
I'm not going to post the whole thing again though.
In short:
It frustrates me when people try to guilt others into loving a person.

Being judgemental would be calling a person all kinds of names without knowing them personally.
Not loving an artist or not believing their sincerity in the way they portray themselves is an opinion based on observing them.
Two very different things imo.

To me the whole "standing up for freaks in society" is the oldest trick in the book of geting a fanbase.
Everyone knows all people have felt left out at least once in their lives so it's a good working marketing machine.
(She is also not the only one who has done this or who will.)
The way you describe her relationship with her fans is pretty much how most artists connect with their crowd.
For instance Pink and Christina Aguilera (to just name 2) have been giving out that message for years as well. (Love yourself, don't care about what people think etc.) In fact most singers have expressed that. Why? Because it is a sure way to connect with you audience.

I also don't see the innovative artist you are describing.
That's just my view, I can name others who I feel are way more meaningfull and innovative. People will see things differently, that's just the way it is.

Which is why it confuses me when I see you (JayWalker) write "Her intentions are entirely....etc."
Let's be honest, you don't know that. Neither do I or others here because we are not in her head or know her personally.
Of course that is what she is going to portray herself to be or she will insist but in the entertainment world words like that are expected for obvious reasons.

Could Gaga be sincere? Sure, But could she not be sincere? Yes.
We don't know that.
All we can do is make an opinion from what we know.

It almost sounds like you feel personally atacked because some people here don't like her. ( I hope I read that wrong)
Just because people don't like her doesn't mean they are bad people or that being a fan of Michael needs to be brought up.
( I still fail to see the connection between him and her honestly, sorry)
This has nothing to do with tabloids (Who by the way seem to love her)
You can form an opinion by the music, videos, speeches, pictures. No tabloids needed.
It's almost funny to see just how much opinions can be different about one subject.
I feel almost the complete opposite of what you do describing her. And that's okay.

The way you describe her you would think in a perfect world her fans are the most openminded/loving everybody/not judgemental people in the world.
Yet many of her fans as we speak are judging other artists just as harshly (Christina Aguilera anyone? The hypocrisy there is just sickening to me but I digress. That is not aimed at you btw.)
I guess it's how society works right now. Sad really. I wish it was different.

Look I'm glad that she liberates you (really I would say good for you) but she doesn't have that effect on everyone. I can see your a big fan and you see her in your way.
But the fact is many people see her differently. Doesn't make them bad people.
If that frustates you than maybe you shouldn't look at other sites around because she honestly gets a way worse treatment over there than here really.

In closing (wow this is a long post) let's agree to disagree and don't get too upset.
You love her, others don't. Doesn't have anything to do with being a fan of Michael imo.

(Btw just to be clear I hope you understand I'm not attacking you. Just reacting to your post because it stood out to me.)
 
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fzsky

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Lady Gaga is another artist that I love, and I know and understand she is not welcome by a lot of people. People's preference differ and we shouldn't force anyone to love something that he/she doesn't. It's sad to see the situation, though.
While being massively popular, there were also many people that hated Elvis, Beatles, etc when they made their debut or when they were famous. It even happened to Michael as we know. My grandpa hated Michael as hell, btw. And I guess that's the things go.

But most of all, it confuses me why I should be seeing the name of Lady Gaga in an MJ forum.
 

Alma

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Lady Gaga didn't choose to be a person. She is what she is. Her personality is intended to liberate the 'freaks' in society - those who feel like they are nothing, whether it's wearing a meat dress or bleeding on stage - she comments on society in the most confronting way possible, to give the audience these messages.

Like Michael Jackson, her intentions are entirely positive and incredibly selfless. Every action she does is for her fans, and helps people - like me - to feel comfortable with who I am.

She's not going 'Hollywood Tonight' and I think it's plain stupid that you included Michael's quotes to make her seem like Michael pitied her. She used to be heavy into drugs before her career took off and managed to save herself before it came too late and she discourages her previous lifestyle to her fans. This name change, you're on about, is not a change of persona, but more of a universal connection to every type of fan. No fan is felt like they are left out. Gaga purely wants her fans to celebrate themselves and love the bits they think are flawed. PURELY POSITIVE, just like Michael.

It's funny how when one artist starts to become incredibly successful, braking records and creating new platforms. You guys seem to be the first ones to attack them. Just like the media.

....and I find it quite upsetting, that you guys are so ready to judge an artist, based on how the media perceives them - vilified or glorified. As Michael Jackson fans, I thought you'd understand this and avoid tabloid influences. WWMJD?


One can choose to liberate the 'freaks' of nature without insulting God. When you wear inverted crosses on your crotch area, swallowing rosaries, donning Nun suits on, you're insulting God in a distasteful, horrendous manner. Justifying that by saying it's 'art' or mere rebellion is ignorance, as blunt as it sounds. Freedom... What kind of freedom liberty really is when grotesque? Promoting a specific sexual orientation also, in a distasteful manner? This vital aspect is ignored - one only needs to see something like this, and all else falls down.
 

Sophielo

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This thread has run its course now and just turned into a Lady Gaga debate so closed. There are threads in Music Makes The World Go Round to discuss Ladyd Gaga.
 
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