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Leaking of unreleased songs

MJImpeccable said:
Thats interesting, didnt know about that. I tried to find a reference but cant find any, can you maybe find it?

Its dificult what michael would have wanted cause ive also read that as he was a perfectionist, hè didnt want people to hear the unfinished songs cause he wasnt satisfied enough to release them.

One problem I have is that if all songs are leaked, which I assume is what michael definitly didnt want cause its stealing and releasing whats not yours,
I feel like there is nothing 'special' to look forward to anymore, I guess a big part is the magic of the unknown of what material he was working on.
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For example, journalist Ree Hines wrote in 2009:

"A secret song library, reportedly stocked with up to 200 unreleased tracks, could mean a lasting legacy for Jackson's brood"

Or, according to another source:

"[Michael Jackson] has as many as 200 unpublished songs that he planned to leave his children when he died. They can't be touched by the creditors, but they could be worth as much as ($100 million) that will ensure his kids a comfortable existence no matter what happens"

These songs are referred to as unreleased (and complete) songs, rather than as just unfinished songs.
 
ChanceToDance said:
I think the reason there hasn't been anything for those albums is because the estate doesn't consider re-issue albums profitable enough for them. They gave their all on Bad 25 but it started going down in numbers after the second week (and this is MJ's second most known album, mind you). T40 only managed to stand by its own with little promotion is because the album is a massive culture phenomenon, who's to say that other albums will manage to stand by their reputation alone when they're not as popular as his 80's albums? Not even Bad 25 managed to hit that feat with all the promotion it was given. It's no surprise that they're not interested in doing those anymore.

HIStory might be the only album we have a chance of getting something since Branca seems intent in releasing Munich and that's what he wanted to do for HIStory 25, but had to be shelved due to Covid. I don't know if we'll get a second disc out of that since there's barely any content left from that era like it was stated above.
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If you look at 'xscape' for example, it was pretty successful, but seems logical that new albums are not so profitable.

But is the Michael Jackson estate a company to make as much profit as possible or are they suppose to keep his legacy alive? (Obviously the money is important for the kids)

The Michael Jackson estate is the biggest estate of passed music artists and generates lots of income each year. (If rarely seen John Branca not mention it) Also the musical and the upcoming biopic can generate a lot of profit (one of the few things the estate does right).

I dont understand how some new releases, whether profitable or not, are left out. And if they want to release unreleased songs, during the biopic is the best time to do it.
 
mj_frenzy said:
For example, journalist Ree Hines wrote in 2009:

"A secret song library, reportedly stocked with up to 200 unreleased tracks, could mean a lasting legacy for Jackson's brood"

Or, according to another source:

"[Michael Jackson] has as many as 200 unpublished songs that he planned to leave his children when he died. They can't be touched by the creditors, but they could be worth as much as ($100 million) that will ensure his kids a comfortable existence no matter what happens"

These songs are referred to as unreleased (and complete) songs, rather than as just unfinished songs.
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This is great, thank you really apriciate it!!

This gives me more reasons to hate people who leak songs:
1. These songs were meant to ensure a comfortabele existence for his kids, cause the songs have value.
2. Since the songs have value, Michael probably didnt want his fans to hear the unreleased songs cause its his families posession.

Its a shame people are so selfish to want these songs so badly that they leak or want these songs to leak. Espacially if (I assume) thats Not what Michael himself would have wanted.
 
Pentum said:
How sure are we though? I keep hearing this about OTW, History, Dangerous and Invincible, but I don't agree.

Bad 25 had 10 extra songs, where 4 of them are previously unreleased, and 2 of them are just French and Spanish version of IJCSLY. That means 6 "new" songs.

Thriller 40 had 10 extra songs as well, where 4 of the songs had already been released. That means 6 "new" songs.

Surely, OTW anniversary box set with perhaps 5-10 extra songs, where some can be already released, and some "new". And don't forget the possibilities of remastered music videos footage and some concerts. They did the (lazy) documentary for OTW. Might as well have gone full inn and include what I just mentioned.

Same thing can be said for Dangerous (which has tons of unreleased songs), History and Invincible.

They are lazy, unwilling and incompetent
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"John McClain said it best," Branca said. "He said that Michael probably wouldn't have wanted This is It released because he was such a perfectionist and it was rehearsal footage. But if he had seen that we could get $60 million for his mother and children and it became the biggest concert movie of all time, he would have said, 'Thank you very much.' "

He said he has not heard all of the 60 plus songs discovered by McClain but he said what he has heard is "classic Michael Jackson." Among the songs are two recordings that were never released that he made for charity with other stars. There are also songs he recorded for his famous albums that were never included in the final product.
 
Fuzball said:
"John McClain said it best," Branca said. "He said that Michael probably wouldn't have wanted This is It released because he was such a perfectionist and it was rehearsal footage. But if he had seen that we could get $60 million for his mother and children and it became the biggest concert movie of all time, he would have said, 'Thank you very much.' "

He said he has not heard all of the 60 plus songs discovered by McClain but he said what he has heard is "classic Michael Jackson." Among the songs are two recordings that were never released that he made for charity with other stars. There are also songs he recorded for his famous albums that were never included in the final product.
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Makes me wonder what's included.....most of it is probably self produced
 
I'm conflicted on this issue.

One, because people who had nothing to do with the product get rich from theft, two the snippets that come out a just beyond ridiculous and ultimately it hurts Michael's legacy and it would hurt him deeply if he were here.

On the other hand, I hate that the Estate don't take care and effort when they release unreleased material. Not only are they released in poor quality (Bad 25, Xscape originals and Thriller 40) but there's no special attention given to them. A big deal should be made of every release, with a write up on how the song came to be and correct information on it.
These are unreleased recordings from the biggest selling artist in history.

Apologies for the rant, but fans shouldn't have to side with criminals to get unreleased Michael Jackson material in the quality it deserves.
 
MJImpeccable said:
It's nice to see that you'all are craving for new music being released.

Also, nice to see invincible getting more recognition.

However, since the probabilities of the estate releasing anything in the short term are slim.

What is your view on people trying to look for and leaking all of michaels unreleased songs? Is it justified to leak his possession of which we dont know of he wanted us to hear it since it wasnt finished.

And what would it mean of michaels legacy if everything will be leaked?
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Ah hi John lol
 
The estate have been insulting the fans for a long time. Michael's children are set for life. Anything to stop lining the pockets of the estate, especially John Branca is fine by me. Leak everything. I hope they don't make another cent off Michael's name. They treated him like an ATM in life and they are still doing it.
 
We can't do a damn thing. we can't change the mafia's mind can we? just can't so why talk about it? It wont change anything
 
the estate doesn't care anyway if everything gets leaked.
i don't count on them and on future 'releases'. so I'm hoping for leaks
 
The business our guy was in is dirty and greedy ,corrupt , cutthroat ,disillusioned and it is controlled isn't it ? it is also emotionless ....
I have learnt that the people behind the ones we support really don't care about us old fans, just the new blood. Always. and the new blood to come.
it's a given.
So, how can a fan change that history? Not just speaking for M here , Wendijane is speaking for every artist out there, alive and dead.
I am glad that Michael himself gave me the heads up on it.
 
MJImpeccable said:
Please let me know what your opinion is and if you agree with me or not.
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What does opinion matter to the estate? It's not like they're gonna care about us fans and stop with their greed. It's really sad to see what they're doing to his legacy. These are exactly the kind of people Michael didn't want, but they win I guess. I am sorry to say this but I hate being an MJ fan anymore.

A biopic that nobody wants and will have nothing new about his life cause c'mon, it's fucking movie with a 2 hr, 2 hr 30 mins at max. But they gotta make it cause they want what they don't deserve

Give us, for example, HD,
HD, not 4K, footages of Concerts and music videos. But nah, as an estate, they feel that's too much fucking work for a loyal and a good fanbase.

I am kinda neutral on the idea of unfinished demos being released. People say Michael didn't want it so we can't listen to it. And others say that as fans we deserve to listen to it all. I understand both of them but I don't know, what to root for.

There's my rant and my answer to your question.
Now, I find this question absolutely fucking ridiculous, cause I know they won't do a single motherfucking thing for the next 6 years or so.

But why does my saying matter?

And I doubt that there will be a thing called "Invincible 25"
 
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MJImpeccable said:
(Obviously the money is important for the kids)
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This is an argument I've been hearing for a long time, but let's put it in perspective.

There are no "kids" anymore. Prince is 26, Paris is 25 and both of them have their own "careers" already. Blanket is 21, about to graduate from college iirc. If the Estate decided to save a bit of what they have generated in the last 10 years for them, all 3 of them would be able to afford a fancy lifestyle for the next 10 years of their lives.

The main focus now is profit, period. Profit that goes into their pockets.
 
MJbr2 said:
This is an argument I've been hearing for a long time, but let's put it in perspective.

There are no "kids" anymore. Prince is 26, Paris is 25 and both of them have their own "careers" already. Blanket is 21, about to graduate from college iirc. If the Estate decided to save a bit of what they have generated in the last 10 years for them, all 3 of them would be able to afford a fancy lifestyle for the next 10 years of their lives.

The main focus now is profit, period. Profit that goes into their pockets.
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Profit and legacy.

Let's face it, unreleased songs and concerts are not big money makers for them. They just don't think the time, energy, and money spent on them are worth it.
 
I dont see the estate making money as a problem, cause they operate on michaels behalf which eventually will go to the kids (I assume).

But I dont understand why profit seems so important for the estate and the people in charge, that lots of project the fans want to see and that could be great for his legacy are being ignored.

Still dont think dat stealing from the artist we all love so much and leaking it is therefore justified.

Also I wonder what the deal is with selling the remaining part of the catalogue and how branca is so keen to do this, he will likely get a big bag for making that deal, just hope he doesnt do it for his own interest.

Does anyone know what will happen if the estate (and/or branca) 'stops' with all projects and the estate will just collect the money generated from michaels work? Will the kids get in charge and get the money?
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
[...] On the other hand, I hate that the Estate don't take care and effort when they release unreleased material. Not only are they released in poor quality (Bad 25, Xscape originals and Thriller 40) but there's no special attention given to them. A big deal should be made of every release,
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This 1000x.

This right here is the crucial thing, this is what matters, imo. T40 did OK, chart-wise, even with zero promotion. Did the Bad25 experience put them off? Who knows but I think any project should always be given a proper amount of care and effort. They should always make a big deal for each product that they put out.

SmoothCriminal1995 said:
with a write up on how the song came to be and correct information on it.
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Love this idea. Simple, cheap but, if well done, it could be so interesting, so effective.

SmoothCriminal1995 said:
These are unreleased recordings from the biggest selling artist in history.
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Exactly so. Care and effort. Special attention. Make a big deal. All of that should be standard.

SmoothCriminal1995 said:
Apologies for the rant
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It was a good one.
 
I’ve been very vocal over the years in my disagreement that the estate is obligated to do anything. I’ve always hated the mentality of “we want this and it’s your responsibility to cater to us,” which plenty of fan communities are guilty of subscribing to. There is absolutely a conversation to be had about the quality MJ deserves, which the estate has absolutely not met, but it always rubs me the wrong way when I see people criticize them not because of their actual failures, but because they’re not running down the list of fan demands and meeting every single one. But I digress.

When it comes to leaks, I’m of two minds. On the one hand, I’d wager that MJ’s children will be stricter than the current executors when choosing what material reaches the public, so without leaks, the likelihood of us hearing “Family Thing” or “Someone Put Your Hand Down” is almost zero.

On the other, we often forget that not only did MJ detest leaks, but that there are numerous other collaborators whose work is denigrated because of them. Steve Porcaro kept “Dream Away” hidden for 40 years and was trying to get “Chicago 1945” released for just as long… and look what happened.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I’ve been very vocal over the years in my disagreement that the estate is obligated to do anything. I’ve always hated the mentality of “we want this and it’s your responsibility to cater to us,” which plenty of fan communities are guilty of subscribing to. There is absolutely a conversation to be had about the quality MJ deserves, which the estate has absolutely not met, but it always rubs me the wrong way when I see people criticize them not because of their actual failures, but because they’re not running down the list of fan demands and meeting every single one. But I digress. [...]
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These are all good points. I'm not that bothered about whether MJE cares about Michael's fans or not. I feel that if they produced a greater variety of products - or indicated that they are expecting to move towards that in future - and delivered products of higher quality that is all that would be needed. Some people would still be unhappy bc they can't please everyone. That's just life. But it's the careless attitude I struggle with. It's like @SmoothGangsta said recently, they seem to be peddling an 'idea' of Michael rather than Michael himself. It's tiresome to keep beating the T40 drum but it's such a good example of how they (sometimes) do things. I have bought exactly 3 MJE products - T40, Michael, Xscape. I'm not expecting to buy any more. Not bc I'm having a childish strop but bc I just don't understand the estate. And, actually, that's not even important. It doesn't matter whether I buy MJE products or not, it's about how much care and attention they put into the various projects.
 
Fuzball said:
😲 Huh, no Bad25? You've missed alot by leaving that out.
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Didn't know about it at the time! By the time I found out about the existence of Bad25 (2017? round about then) it had already been discontinued and I don't shop online. So, no Abortion Papers for me. :(

I'm not a collector, not a completist and never paid any attention to MJE until last year. Wasn't in any fan spaces.

Not shopping online was supposed to be the hill I would die on. :ROFLMAO: But Abortion Papers is calling to me so we shall have to see, lol. Although I need to get a move on!
 
They've made the biggest deal in the history of music to release songs from the vault.

10 projects, remember? We've gotten, idk, 8. If you count pure albums of music, then we've gotten 4, 5, with several other songs as well on the side.

And of all those? We've gotten complaints with em. Are they valid? Well sure. But tbh sometimes no.

Michael - Fake Songs - Very valid complaint. And I can totally see why they would become embittered after all this, lol. It's what they get.

Bad 25 - Audio Quality Bad - Have you heard the Ultimate Collection? It started with MJ. That's just a pipe dream I'm afraid, times are different. It's valid but unrealistic. And remixes? Not valid at all. Again, started with MJ.

Xscape - Don't like them changing the music - Kinda hard to verify. But you get the originals so I don't see the legitimacy of complaining. Audio Quality , see above. You want them to leave them unaltered but you also want a song from 20 years ago to be put on the radio for young people? Please, don't even joke like that.

Thriller 40 - Not a lot of care put in the songs - Audio Quality Bad. See, above. Also, these seem even less touched than the others. Maybe they deserve a perfect mastering from the original engineering crew, but it seems to me they tried this even in 2001 and it wasn't the case, so maybe they're chasing standards that just aren't there anymore. Outsourcing like they did for SuperCD Thriller 40 might be better from now on. Letting Apple do what they do is also fine in my mind. There's ways to get that quality.

But anyway, besides all of this:


This Is It was the biggest, most unbridled success there's ever been. Probably the height of MJs posthumous success, as big as any he's had during his life.

The Cirque show, was a huge success.

The musical is a localized success. Still a success. I never saw the thriller 40 room thing, doesn't mean I'm not happy about it.

If the biopic is anywhere as successful as This Is It was, then that's a huge win, and that will lead to everything we want, so I don't see the loss of patience people are having. It's not 2009 anymore, but it's also not 2010 anymore. Things have changed for the worse. And for the better.
 
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Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Maybe they deserve a perfect mastering from the original engineering crew, but it seems to me they tried this even in 2001 and it wasn't the case, so maybe they're chasing standards that just aren't there anymore. Outsourcing like they did for SuperCD Thriller 40 might be better from now on.
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Mark Wilder (mastering engineer for Sony Music) did a pretty good job on remastering "The Jacksons" catalogue. Idk why they've chosen Brian Gardner for all posthumous MJ releases.
 
Fuzball said:
Mark Wilder (mastering engineer for Sony Music) did a pretty good job on remastering "The Jacksons" catalogue. Idk why they've chosen Brian Gardner for all posthumous MJ releases.
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I dunno why they don’t go back to Bernie. He’s alive and still actively working. Why not take advantage while they can?
 
flight85 said:
Maybe they think he is too expensive? The song Money by MJ suits the estate quite well imho.
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You mean the song that talks about financial hardships?
5c06fdd45b3b7595371aabe5714f0b287c877509.pnj
 
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