Leaving Neverland - Three Years Later

BlastFromThePast

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Hi All!

So firstly I want to say that I am very old guard. I was around on MJJForum around the year 2001 or so, all the way up through the 2005 trial and maybe a little while beyond. At that point, Trish was running it and there was this male model poster named Jax that every girl fawned over lol. Once the trial was over, I was so entirely exhausted and relieved that life took over and I ended up moving on from the forum. I believe my name back then was "DangerousThriller," but it appears someone else has signed up for it here, so I had to come up with something else haha. I see ElusiveMoonwalker posting a lot here, I remember him/her quite well, and I also see references to TSCM, whom I also recognize. And terrell! I remember that dude quite fondly. I know I interacted closely with them and am glad to see they have kept it all up!

When Leaving Neverland came around, I just didn't have the energy tbh. I was keenly aware we were right in the middle of an overwhelming emotional MeToo movement, and I was seeing how the phrase "believe all victims" was used synonymously with "believe all accusers," and I knew it really wasn't a great time to bother engaging with a certain segment of the population. It mirrored to me how BlackLivesMatter had become "defund police," where a well-intended movement that brought good got taken too far. As with other cases, I did take a step back and consider the veracity on their own terms, but I was also familiar with Wade Robson and was, to be frank, quite skeptical. I did some further research on Wade and also the story of James, and it became clear to me it was exactly what I figured, another money grab.

A few years have gone on, and I've had limited interactions with people about the entire thing. It seems largely it was not a huge topic of conversation even at its height in March 2019, though the press and Oprah (wtf) certainly had a field day. The one time I had one, reactions were mixed, but it was legitimately the peak of all this garbage and it was clear a couple of the people passionately arguing were abuse victims, so again I knew it was pointless. There was an attempt at soevietal cancellation, but obviously on the whole that has failed. Even places like New Zealand that banned him on some radio...I mean, what is this, 1983? Radio? lol who cares. I went through the entire processing of this closely over the past month or so, and run the gamut of emotions. I've gone back and commented on things years old now lol, just to get it out and engage so I can feel like I've done what I believe is standing up for justice.

As time has gone on, it seems to me that the world is generally agnostic and the focus is very, very largely on his music. I am not a fan or Joe Rogan, but I do sometimes view his stuff to see what reactions are on topics and every time Jackson came up (and he went into his crazy rant about MJ being chemically castrated LOL), the comments were very largely positive or agnostic. There'd be a comment here or there, but it'd usually either be ignored or shut down by more knowledgeable. I have even, GASP, seen some minds changed in real time, which essentially seems like an impossible thing in today's age.

Now, out of nowhere, I am starting to see Jackson blow up on TikTok of all places. There comments are again overwhelmingly positive and focus on the art and often the person. You'll always have a few "but he was a pedo" comments in long chains, but you're talking where a comment on MJ being amazing is getting 10k likes, and then someone jumps in and says something about little kids and it gets 20 likes and then usually numerous responses to the opposite.

The way I see it, the documentary had an immediate noticeable impact in certain portions of the world where media has lost its mind entirely, such as in the United States and the UK. But even then, a lot of it seemed to be on the surface from people with loud voices stating things as truth that people were either too afraid to disagree with because of the climate or just didn't care about. When Chapelle came out and said the quiet part out loud, I think it freed a lot of people tbh. As time has gone on and the MeToo has calmed quite a bit, I have personally noticed a shift with more people speaking on behalf of MJ's innocence and the very large focus in general being on his work as an artist. And I'm also seeing the younger generation making parallels to how the way he was treated in general was abhorrent, similar to how Britney was treated as a child star growing up. It's fascinating and, more importantly, encouraging.

Michael Jackson's life/legacy etc has been a roller coaster for 30 years. I am extremely confident that, in the end, his music will be what people actually care about. I am glad for that. What has always driven me to defend him, the very high likelihood of his innocence and what that means in terms of who he was as a person, seems to also have not taken as big a hit as some might have believed in the fog of war and to also be slowly recovering. We do not know what the future holds, but the fact there was not a deluge of other accusers and only people claiming nothing happened with him, is a promising sign. If Dan Reed (my personal feeling on Dan Reed is he might himself be PROMOTING the behavior, as we have seen with others in the past) actually wants to attempt to create Leaving Neverland 2 with freaking Gavin Arvizo...I mean I can't see how that doesn't backfire. I honestly believe it would actually help and, in the long term, discredit the original LN further as well. There's also always the possibility the SoL for perjury runs out again and Wade wants some money, so he writes a book about his MJ never did anything. James clearly wears his guilt on his sleeve, you can see it in his interviews, but I'm not sure any of them will ever say anything. Jordan...probably never in life, maybe in death. Or maybe he slips up and somebody films him, who knows. Maybe And, I'm telling you, something is OFF with Dan Reed. He is not right. Maybe something happens there, you never know...Or we could actually get a GOOD documentary at some point that paints MJ more sympathetically.

Anyway, having processed all this and living in the now, I feel quite good. MJ seems to be in a good place in society overall, and it's probably only going to get better from here on out. And this is in the United States, where he probably has been treated the worst. Whether we get the true home run that forces even those who refuse to examine facts to be swayed, I'm not sure, but I wanted to create this post to give my thoughts and experience and share my belief that the sun seems to be rising yet again. No matter what the long-term outcome, MJ was subject to the cruelest of world, beginning from his childhood. Always for money, no matter the type of abuse. Always. That injustice can never be undone, but the long term attempt to ruin him forever has failed and I think the impact from this horseshit episode has already begun to wane noticeably and will continue to do so over time.

Just wanted to share my thoughts, and say thanks to all those who have continued to fight the fight for justice :)
 

fraroc04

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I feel that in some respects, MJ's legacy is even stronger than ever with MJ the Musical having almost every damn show sold out and people appreciating his music more than ever...

But in the same vein the MJ haters, especially on Twitter, have became absolutley rabid and fanatical. I mean they've gotten a REAL hateboner for him now to the point where MJ fans are being publicly harassed and accused of being rape apologists, pedophilia apologists, pedos themselves, fans that provide countervailing hard evidence of Michael's innocence are instablocked by these people...I've seen MJ fans being compared to flat earthers, QAnoners, Covid deniers....
 

AlwaysThere

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In my opinion, Leaving Neverland did more damage to MJ’s career than anything that happened in his lifetime, if only due to the fact that he isn’t here to defend himself. He cooperated with the 1993-94 investigation and took his case to trial in 2005; this posthumous lynching has gone uncontested, and tragically, it will stay that way.

Now, make no mistake, MJ is still a beloved figure in popular culture. But if you’ve been part of the online fan community for the last few years, you’ve absolutely noticed a change in the tides. Celebrities are reluctant to express outright admiration. Some radio stations (as far as I know) are still refusing to play his music. Even articles that praise his accomplishments reference Robson and Safechuck’s BS. Compare this to circa 2014-18, when negativity was mostly few and far between, and the difference is night and day.

As I’ve said elsewhere, MJ fans tend to live in a bubble and reject reality. “The Broadway show is selling well! He’s high on Spotify! He’s on TikTok! Everybody knows the allegations are false!” So? There are also tweets, Facebook posts, and articles accusing MJ of pedophilia that garner hundreds of thousands of likes. At best, his career is in a neutral state.

As for Leaving Neverland itself, I feel the same way now as I did when it debuted: it’s a poorly-made, embarrassingly slight, non-credible hit piece crafted by a director whose fifteen minutes of fame dried up and is now trying desperately to cobble together a sequel, and starring two men whose exploits are painfully transparent and have been rebuked time and time again. I wish nothing but the worst for the three frontmen, and while I won’t hold my breath that Robson or Safechuck will ever own up to their lies, I hope they continue to fail at whatever they strive for.
 

BlastFromThePast

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In my opinion, Leaving Neverland did more damage to MJ’s career than anything that happened in his lifetime, if only due to the fact that he isn’t here to defend himself. He cooperated with the 1993-94 investigation and took his case to trial in 2005; this posthumous lynching has gone uncontested, and tragically, it will stay that way.

Now, make no mistake, MJ is still a beloved figure in popular culture. But if you’ve been part of the online fan community for the last few years, you’ve absolutely noticed a change in the tides. Celebrities are reluctant to express outright admiration. Some radio stations (as far as I know) are still refusing to play his music. Even articles that praise his accomplishments reference Robson and Safechuck’s BS. Compare this to circa 2014-18, when negativity was mostly few and far between, and the difference is night and day.

As I’ve said elsewhere, MJ fans tend to live in a bubble and reject reality. “The Broadway show is selling well! He’s high on Spotify! He’s on TikTok! Everybody knows the allegations are false!” So? There are also tweets, Facebook posts, and articles accusing MJ of pedophilia that garner hundreds of thousands of likes. At best, his career is in a neutral state.

As for Leaving Neverland itself, I feel the same way now as I did when it debuted: it’s a poorly-made, embarrassingly slight, non-credible hit piece crafted by a director whose fifteen minutes of fame dried up and is now trying desperately to cobble together a sequel, and starring two men whose exploits are painfully transparent and have been rebuked time and time again. I wish nothing but the worst for the three frontmen, and while I won’t hold my breath that Robson or Safechuck will ever own up to their lies, I hope they continue to fail at whatever they strive for.
No offense, but I have to ask if you were around during 2005? The polling during 2005 had 75-80% of the US believing he was guilty and over 60% believed the case was proven beyond a reasonable doubt even by the end of it. The media coverage globally was probably 100 times what Leaving Neverland ever was. I'm being literal here, it was probably 100X worse, if not beyond that. There was never anything like it in the history of the world, and the media was even worse, filtering stuff that was objectively great for MJ as a "bad day for Michael Jackson." The polling on guilt even immediately after LN, which was in the white hot middle of the MeToo movement, had him in nowhere near as bad a shape as 2005. I actually saw him at 41% believed guilt the week before LN and 39% guilt a few weeks after. By the 10th anninversary of his death, it was down to 37%. There were a ton of "I don't know" answers. Since then, I can't imagine numbers have gone up, especially given the issues found with their stories and the cooling down of MeToo and backlash against cancel culture. I really can't imagine that anyone who was following/lived through the Bashir hit piece and trial from 2003-05 would say LN was worse. I don't think it's even in the same stratosphere.

What you're mentioning about celebs and all this was worse in 2005, and that leaves out key context that we lived through MeToo and Cancel Culture, and these people just keep their mouths shut to avoid the drama. It appears to be waning, as well, he's re-entering culture again and people seem to not be paying much attention to Dan Reed or his two liars. James Safechuck Tweeted for the first time since the Train Station debacle, in an attempt to get negative PR about Michael, and it currently has 50 likes lol. Critics are complaining he hasn't been canceled, so that gives a pretty good indication. Also, 1993 he might have cooperated, but he also made the single worst decision of his life and settled the civil case. That's all anyone remembers about 1993, Michael "paying off his victim to keep him quiet."

I actually think you have it backwards. We live now in a social media bubble, where everywhere we go there is someone there to disagree or argue with you. In 2019, it was the MeToo crowd. Truth is most people didn't care to engage in any of this, it's just what we all saw. The number of people engaging is far below what it was in 2019, as well. From what I see, it's basically the same 5 people with cat icons. This is also largely relegated to select Western nations, the large majority of the global population has never believed this and thinks the Western media is insane (true).

If there is a weak link in the LN cast, it's Amanda Robson. I think Wade has essentially coopted her abuse as his own, forcing her to deny it and him to play victim to the world. Wade also coopted his father's abuse as well, as evidenced by him asking his mother how he talked about it. Then there's always Jordie. Who knows if he ever decides to say anything. I think probably he will, even if it's with a letter at death or the death of his mother, but you never do know.

Overall, I think the large majority of people just don't care about Leaving Neverland. Not that many people saw it and the idea of destroying people in that manner, especially dead people, is losings its appeal rapidly. Polling numbers I have seen have not shown it changing many people's opinions. The only major poll has seen it go down slightly.
 
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BlastFromThePast

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I feel that in some respects, MJ's legacy is even stronger than ever with MJ the Musical having almost every damn show sold out and people appreciating his music more than ever...

But in the same vein the MJ haters, especially on Twitter, have became absolutley rabid and fanatical. I mean they've gotten a REAL hateboner for him now to the point where MJ fans are being publicly harassed and accused of being rape apologists, pedophilia apologists, pedos themselves, fans that provide countervailing hard evidence of Michael's innocence are instablocked by these people...I've seen MJ fans being compared to flat earthers, QAnoners, Covid deniers....
It's such a small group of people, though, and this is basically just what social media is. If social media had been around during 2003-2005, it'd have been a billion times worse. Negative connotations about MJ permeated society from 2003-2005. Leaving Neverland was a blip, the very large majority of people never saw it, and society doesn't have the attention span for this kind of thing anymore anyway. Smartphones have destroyed that. In 2005, EVERYONE saw MJ 24/7.
 

Dunk96

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I'm a fan who grew up in the post-trial, short pre-death era from 2005-09 so I vaguely remember goings-on back then in forums and in the real world. Many many people had no respect for him and didn't appreciate him until his death. Then people realized his greatness after that point and even many MJ haters for a time grew into fans once they realized that every allegation of abuse was a money grab, including the LN bullsh*t. The small group of MJ haters now who just post to troll is gradually way smaller than it was ten years ago. At this point they're just miserable b*tches lol. MJ's legacy is not going anywhere, no matter what the media narrative tries to spin or their constant campaigns to "cancel" him. He's just as relevant now as he was when Thriller was at it's height back in the 1980s. I'm devastated to this day he's not here to witness this.
 

fraroc04

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I'm a fan who grew up in the post-trial, short pre-death era from 2005-09 so I vaguely remember goings-on back then in forums and in the real world. Many many people had no respect for him and didn't appreciate him until his death. Then people realized his greatness after that point and even many MJ haters for a time grew into fans once they realized that every allegation of abuse was a money grab, including the LN bullsh*t. The small group of MJ haters now who just post to troll is gradually way smaller than it was ten years ago. At this point they're just miserable b*tches lol. MJ's legacy is not going anywhere, no matter what the media narrative tries to spin or their constant campaigns to "cancel" him. He's just as relevant now as he was when Thriller was at it's height back in the 1980s. I'm devastated to this day he's not here to witness this.
Nowadays, a lot of MJ haters mask it in this veil of "I'm doing the right thing and supporting all victims of child sex abuse and if you don't agree with me that MJ is guilty, it means you're a pedo apologist and an objectively bad person."
 

Dunk96

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Nowadays, a lot of MJ haters mask it in this veil of "I'm doing the right thing and supporting all victims of child sex abuse and if you don't agree with me that MJ is guilty, it means you're a pedo apologist and an objectively bad person."
Exactly, and those exact same people are, in reality, projecting about themselves. 99.5% of the time they either are pedophiles or are covering up for somebody close to them who is a pedophile. Hell, look at W*de R*bson himself lol. He's the real danger, not Michael.
 

Amaya

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Exactly, and those exact same people are, in reality, projecting about themselves. 99.5% of the time they either are pedophiles or are covering up for somebody close to them who is a pedophile. Hell, look at W*de R*bson himself lol. He's the real danger, not Michael.

Indeed. I smelled these attitudes a LONG time ago, and it's gotten even worse now with social media and all the shitty movements that have come about from it.
 
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