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Let's end the confusion about MJ's unreleased tracks here

FlyAway0086 said:
1. It's never leaked.

The track was the first MJ and John Barnes worked on at Soundcastle. It's a dance track with a classical/symphonic intro and tempo in the "R&B speed". Lyrics concern William Cody - a notable figure of the American Wild West.

Michael cited the track in the "Unauthorized Interview" (1983). Per MJ: "It's about Will Cody - the cowboy - and how he died. And I'm real excited about it. I hate to say - I know it's going to be a hit. I feel strong about it."

2. Michael was convinced it was (at least at the time).

3. Could be for a variety of reasons. Michael was constantly writing and being presented with new material. It's likely that as he neared the Bad sessions, stronger songs entered the forefront.

4-6. Can't be sure, as I haven't heard the track. Michael was known to recycle certain elements of songs ("Streetwalker" bassline used for "Dangerous") or revise older material for his projects. To my knowledge, "Buffalo Bill" never resurfaced after Victory.
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Thank you!
 
Victorious said:
I know this song has been talked about for ages but it still haunts me, so:

Bufffalo Bill

1. Has anyone ever heard it?
2. If so: Was it really that good?
3. If yes: Why wasn't it on any of his albums?
4. Do you think it transformed into another song later? (since a lot of demo's did)
5. If so: could it be 'Al Capone' (since it's also about a mythical figure and kinda matches the verses)
6. If not: was it transformed into another (released) song, or were parts of it used later on?
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1. Yes. I have it on cassette tape and Sega Genesis cartridge.

2. It's alright, it's no Casio track.

3. Mj_frenzy told him not to release it.

4. It's the demo for Behind the Mask.

5. It's actually about Bill. Not any particular Bill, just any and all Bills. Maybe Bill Nye.

6. Behind the Mask was the demo for this song.
 
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FlyAway0086 said:
1. It's never leaked.

The track was the first MJ and John Barnes worked on at Soundcastle. It's a dance track with a classical/symphonic intro and tempo in the "R&B speed". Lyrics concern William Cody - a notable figure of the American Wild West.

Michael cited the track in the "Unauthorized Interview" (1983). Per MJ: "It's about Will Cody - the cowboy - and how he died. And I'm real excited about it. I hate to say - I know it's going to be a hit. I feel strong about it."

2. Michael was convinced it was (at least at the time).

3. Could be for a variety of reasons. Michael was constantly writing and being presented with new material. It's likely that as he neared the Bad sessions, stronger songs entered the forefront.

4-6. Can't be sure, as I haven't heard the track. Michael was known to recycle certain elements of songs ("Streetwalker" bassline used for "Dangerous") or revise older material for his projects. To my knowledge, "Buffalo Bill" never resurfaced after Victory.
Click to expand...
Good information.

I'll also add that in Rolling Stone in 1984, just prior to the Victory tour and album, Frank Dileo mentioned the song and how it was a dance tune and going to be the next big hit.
 
Derek1984 said:
Good information.

I'll also add that in Rolling Stone in 1984, just prior to the Victory tour and album, Frank Dileo mentioned the song and how it was a dance tune and going to be the next big hit.
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But nobody ever heard it on a seminar or something..?
 
threepea11 said:
I have a theory

So you know how theres confusion how Al Capone and the demo of Smooth Criminal were recorded either after or before each other? Well I have a theory

What if Michael recorded both in the same session (doubt it, but its possible) and it was to choose which direction for tone to go in. He chose Smooth Criminal of course, but it somewhat makes sense, the only thing that doesn't help this case is that Al Capone sounds more complete than the Smooth Criminal demo, it could also be because he wasn't finished with Smooth Criminal.
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Don't take Al Capone being the "demo" of Smooth Criminal so literally. It's not honestly nuanced enough.

I think they're more akin to cousins than father and son. Al Capone definitely feels slightly older and rawer though. Smooth Criminal is a more refined groove, and with a more laid back subject matter. I think Mike didn't want to seem like he was rehashing story songs like Billie Jean or to keep making historical songs (Buffalo Bill, Chicago 1945, Al Capone). So he shifted the narrative slightly at this time and also reworked the groove a bit. It's like when you start a project, leave it, and come back to it a bit later.


The fact Little Susie itself is a story time song about a person that predates all of these, Off The Wall era, might support my own little theory here. That MJ started to prefer more abstract viginettes in his lyrics rather than "autobiographical" or named stuff.
 
I made a little summary of this song "Buffalo Bill". Several things have already been said. I've put together interviews with John Barnes, Bill Botrell, Matt Forger, Frank Dileo and MJ on video himself. Which is extremely rare on his part. The video, which dates from 1983.


In the video, MJ clarifies that he was working on the future album, Victory, and that he wrote several songs, including one of them is called "Buffalo Bill". The song is about William Cody, a cowboy who just died. Rare thing about MJ is that he is very enthusiastic about the song and says it will be a hit. He then evokes the song "Liberian Girl", which was kept for the album Bad and which had the success that we know.


"Buffalo Bill" is the first collaboration with John Barnes. On Facebook, he says the song is great but not quite finished. And he would like to finish the demo. The song was subsequently considered for the album Bad.


In John Barnes' MJCast video above, he indicates that Michael came up with the idea for the song. It begins with an orchestral start, then turns into an R&B dance song. They did most of the work on the same day, 6 hours in the studio. John Barnes also mentions that some of these songs were better than what made the album. Concerning "Liberian Girl", the song was already ready for Victory except for the intro which was added by Quincy.


Bill Botrell answered a question about the demo on gearspace in 2009. He remembers the demo which had a strong John Barnes influence and a cool chorus: "Who Shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?” In 1984 Frank Dileo mentioned the song in a Rolling Stones interview. He had heard MJ's latest uptempo dance composition.
www.google.com

Michael Jackson: Trouble in Paradise?

Michael Jackson is about to embark on what may be the biggest tour ever. But the struggle for power in the Jackson camp could lead to a major disaster
www.google.com www.google.com

In Joe Vogel's book it is stated that Matt Forger described it as an amazing song that was never finalized. "It went through such contortions and changes and green writes and variations" There is a photo of MJ posing in front of William Cody's grave.

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threepea11 said:
I have a theory

So you know how theres confusion how Al Capone and the demo of Smooth Criminal were recorded either after or before each other? Well I have a theory

What if Michael recorded both in the same session (doubt it, but its possible) and it was to choose which direction for tone to go in. He chose Smooth Criminal of course, but it somewhat makes sense, the only thing that doesn't help this case is that Al Capone sounds more complete than the Smooth Criminal demo, it could also be because he wasn't finished with Smooth Criminal.
Click to expand...
You can actually hear a second of Al Capone before the smooth criminal demo so they’re connected somehow
 
SmoothMel7 said:
I made a little summary of this song "Buffalo Bill". Several things have already been said. I've put together interviews with John Barnes, Bill Botrell, Matt Forger, Frank Dileo and MJ on video himself. Which is extremely rare on his part. The video, which dates from 1983.


In the video, MJ clarifies that he was working on the future album, Victory, and that he wrote several songs, including one of them is called "Buffalo Bill". The song is about William Cody, a cowboy who just died. Rare thing about MJ is that he is very enthusiastic about the song and says it will be a hit. He then evokes the song "Liberian Girl", which was kept for the album Bad and which had the success that we know.


"Buffalo Bill" is the first collaboration with John Barnes. On Facebook, he says the song is great but not quite finished. And he would like to finish the demo. The song was subsequently considered for the album Bad.


In John Barnes' MJCast video above, he indicates that Michael came up with the idea for the song. It begins with an orchestral start, then turns into an R&B dance song. They did most of the work on the same day, 6 hours in the studio. John Barnes also mentions that some of these songs were better than what made the album. Concerning "Liberian Girl", the song was already ready for Victory except for the intro which was added by Quincy.


Bill Botrell answered a question about the demo on gearspace in 2009. He remembers the demo which had a strong John Barnes influence and a cool chorus: "Who Shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?” In 1984 Frank Dileo mentioned the song in a Rolling Stones interview. He had heard MJ's latest uptempo dance composition.
www.google.com

Michael Jackson: Trouble in Paradise?

Michael Jackson is about to embark on what may be the biggest tour ever. But the struggle for power in the Jackson camp could lead to a major disaster
www.google.com www.google.com

In Joe Vogel's book it is stated that Matt Forger described it as an amazing song that was never finalized. "It went through such contortions and changes and green writes and variations" There is a photo of MJ posing in front of William Cody's grave.

mjbeats.com.br

MJ Beats

Tudo sobre Michael Jackson
mjbeats.com.br mjbeats.com.br
Click to expand...
I heard it being mentioned in this podcast that Buffalo Bill was going to be put on Bad 25 but it was taken out at the last minute. I never managed to find a source for it, does anyone know more about this?
 
SmoothMel7 said:
I made a little summary of this song "Buffalo Bill". Several things have already been said. I've put together interviews with John Barnes, Bill Botrell, Matt Forger, Frank Dileo and MJ on video himself. Which is extremely rare on his part. The video, which dates from 1983.


In the video, MJ clarifies that he was working on the future album, Victory, and that he wrote several songs, including one of them is called "Buffalo Bill". The song is about William Cody, a cowboy who just died. Rare thing about MJ is that he is very enthusiastic about the song and says it will be a hit. He then evokes the song "Liberian Girl", which was kept for the album Bad and which had the success that we know.


"Buffalo Bill" is the first collaboration with John Barnes. On Facebook, he says the song is great but not quite finished. And he would like to finish the demo. The song was subsequently considered for the album Bad.


In John Barnes' MJCast video above, he indicates that Michael came up with the idea for the song. It begins with an orchestral start, then turns into an R&B dance song. They did most of the work on the same day, 6 hours in the studio. John Barnes also mentions that some of these songs were better than what made the album. Concerning "Liberian Girl", the song was already ready for Victory except for the intro which was added by Quincy.


Bill Botrell answered a question about the demo on gearspace in 2009. He remembers the demo which had a strong John Barnes influence and a cool chorus: "Who Shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?” In 1984 Frank Dileo mentioned the song in a Rolling Stones interview. He had heard MJ's latest uptempo dance composition.
www.google.com

Michael Jackson: Trouble in Paradise?

Michael Jackson is about to embark on what may be the biggest tour ever. But the struggle for power in the Jackson camp could lead to a major disaster
www.google.com www.google.com

In Joe Vogel's book it is stated that Matt Forger described it as an amazing song that was never finalized. "It went through such contortions and changes and green writes and variations" There is a photo of MJ posing in front of William Cody's grave.

mjbeats.com.br

MJ Beats

Tudo sobre Michael Jackson
mjbeats.com.br mjbeats.com.br
Click to expand...
Victory was basically this close to being Thriller 2.0. And maybe even better than Bad, though I won't bank on that. But there was definitely some amazing material in that pipeline.
 
Victorious said:
I know this song has been talked about for ages but it still haunts me, so:

Bufffalo Bill

1. Has anyone ever heard it?
2. If so: Was it really that good?
3. If yes: Why wasn't it on any of his albums?
4. Do you think it transformed into another song later? (since a lot of demo's did)
5. If so: could it be 'Al Capone' (since it's also about a mythical figure and kinda matches the verses)
6. If not: was it transformed into another (released) song, or were parts of it used later on?
Click to expand...

It's a heavy John Barnes influence and the chorus is "Who shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot a lot, did he ever get killed?"

It's vocally incomplete
 
knigofpop said:
I was just listening to the "People of the world" demo and was reminded of how beautiful this track is. Other than the J-Friends version, is there a more vocally complete MJ version? I do love the 'da da da, dee dee dee' though 😌
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Most likely not but this can give you an idea of how a complete version would be like
 
knigofpop said:
I was just listening to the "People of the world" demo and was reminded of how beautiful this track is. Other than the J-Friends version, is there a more vocally complete MJ version? I do love the 'da da da, dee dee dee' though 😌
Click to expand...

MJ's version was basically used as a writer's demo for J-Friends, as far as I know he didn't complete it and just recorded the scratch vocal to demonstrate the melody.
 
Guys what about songs like California grass .lonely man .lonely bird .Lucy in love with luncs .lama Lola .children hours .babies smile . Who's the girls with her hair down .what's your life . Those songs we have zero information maybe they have full vocals ?
 
People of the World is pleasant but it's fine as it is. Idk, there really wasn't many places left to go after Earth Song, but then the fact he came back with "We've Had Enough" is just incredible. Like he nailed the anthem tunes.

Stuff like Days in Gloucestershire and I Am The Loser though, that covers the same territory. I hope there's lots more with those kinds of tunes.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
People of the World is pleasant but it's fine as it is. Idk, there really wasn't many places left to go after Earth Song, but then the fact he came back with "We've Had Enough" is just incredible. Like he nailed the anthem tunes.

Stuff like Days in Gloucestershire and I Am The Loser though, that covers the same territory. I hope there's lots more with those kinds of tunes.
Click to expand...
So Brad Buxer mentioned those (and In The Back, Beautiful Girl) as his favourites in the interview (iirc), but does that mean there are finished versions of DIG, IAMTL and ITB?
 
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