Michael Jackson Amsterdam June 10th (pro footage)

IMWhizzle

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Hi all,

We've been discussing the HIStory Tour forever now. But I'll tell you what, of all shows I've seen I think this one has the best representation of the entertainer that is Michael Jackson. I've also personally attended this specific concert back in 1997. He was literally on fire as you can see on this promo video of BET. Is there more pro footage of this show? This was also the last show where he performed the Off The Wall medley and The Way You Make Me Feel during this leg *correction; still being performed until the Gelsenkirchen show, thanks for correcting me @Serious Effect*. There is also amateur footage on Youtube of this show. It's awesome.

So the question is, why is this show so underrated? And why is nobody talking about this? Is this show in circulation within the fan community? Let's discuss...

Here is pro footage of June 10th, 1997 in Amsterdam:

 
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Serious Effect

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I haven't watched the entirety of the amateur video of this show, but I should sometime if it sounds this amazing. As far as I'm concerned, I have never seen any professional footage of this show. I doubt it would be circulating amongst collectors and traders, but you know what, anything's possible.

Also, I think the last performance of The Way You Make Me Feel of the HIStory Tour was in the show in Gelsenkirchen, not this Amsterdam show. I know because I definitely remember watching an amateur video of that concert, and there was a peformance of that song in it.
 

mj_frenzy

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Also, I think the last performance of The Way You Make Me Feel of the HIStory Tour was in the show in Gelsenkirchen, not this Amsterdam show. I know because I definitely remember watching an amateur video of that concert, and there was a peformance of that song in it.

Correct.

That was the last performance of it, and he withdrew that song from the tour's set list after the Gelsenkirchen HIStory concert.
 

Serious Effect

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I found the amateur video of the Gelsenkirchen concert. Here it is starting with the last performance of The Way You Make Me Feel.

 

rumandraisin

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Thinking about it watching this it really is nothing but lazy that he used the vocals from at that point, 18 year old recordings eg OTW medley
 

IMWhizzle

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Thinking about it watching this it really is nothing but lazy that he used the vocals from at that point, 18 year old recordings eg OTW medley

True, but his overall performance en dance movements were on point the whole show, which was rare for the second leg of the HIStory Tour.
 

rumandraisin

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Oh absolutely. I think the frustration for me has always been that the history your has a lot of my favorite performances of a lot of the tracks. Billie Jean was perfected by then and the opening medley etc. I wish he had done Billie Jean with live vocals just once with the briefcase opening, we'd have the perfect version.

Did he do the full routine at the Brunei concert I can't remember
 

mj_frenzy

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A very common argument from fans that I come across is that he should have used pre-recorded vocals in songs that he lip-synced on stage, especially during the HIStory Tour.

Michael Jackson already answered that when he said that he wanted to give to the audience the exact, same perfect sonic quality of the album versions of the songs that he had to lip-sync on stage.

So, it did not matter to him if some of these songs (like the ‘Off The Wall Medley’) were very old recordings when he lip-synced them during that tour.

As he further explained, that perfect, sonic quality can be achieved only when these songs are recorded in a professional studio, they are mixed and they are mastered properly for inclusion on the album.

Also, there is proof that he had certain health issues with his throat and vocal cords (for example, nodules on his vocal cords) in 1996-1997, hence his excessive lip-syncing.

These health issues also seem to explain why during events and public appearances (in the cities that he visited during that tour) when he spoke to people, fans, etc, he kept protecting his speaking voice by not talking much.

So, it was not laziness on his part that (for the HIStory Tour) he did not re-record certain songs for on stage use, or that he did not sing more songs live.
 

Anna

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Michael Jackson already answered that when he said that he wanted to give to the audience the exact, same perfect sonic quality of the album versions of the songs that he had to lip-sync on stage.
No one goes to a live show because they want to hear the studio vocals they can listen to when they play the album.
 

analogue

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Thinking about it watching this it really is nothing but lazy that he used the vocals from at that point, 18 year old recordings eg OTW medley

I love his dancing at the end of the OTW medley. I love it because it actually feels spontaneous with no strict chorography behind it
 

SRT99

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Michael Jackson already answered that when he said that he wanted to give to the audience the exact, same perfect sonic quality of the album versions of the songs that he had to lip-sync on stage.

How do you know that? Did you go up to MJ one time and he just told you that, or did you make that up? Honestly, I think there was a reason he had to sing with pre-recorded vocals, but it was definitely not because of this.
 

Hulkamaniac

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How do you know that? Did you go up to MJ one time and he just told you that, or did you make that up? Honestly, I think there was a reason he had to sing with pre-recorded vocals, but it was definitely not because of this.

Well, MJ certainly said that during the TII rehearsals. You can see that part before TWYMMF starts.
 

JichaelMackson

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Thinking about it watching this it really is nothing but lazy that he used the vocals from at that point, 18 year old recordings eg OTW medley

He still could sing it the same though, the very end is live and it sounds perfect.
 

kai

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Well, MJ certainly said that during the TII rehearsals. You can see that part before TWYMMF starts.

Not sure but i can't remember him talking about the vocals. I remember he was saying that when they checked what the piano player did. And he was correcting him with a chord which he played to early. Then he said something like "it must be easier" and "i want the audience to hear it the way its on the record". Though, i am pretty sure he was talking about the instruments and arrangement. Not vocals.
 

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mj_frenzy;4307013 said:
Michael Jackson already answered that when he said that he wanted to give to the audience the exact, same perfect sonic quality of the album versions of the songs that he had to lip-sync on stage.

So, it did not matter to him if some of these songs (like the ‘Off The Wall Medley’) were very old recordings when he lip-synced them during that tour.

Michael certainly never meant to say that he loved to have 100% album playback vocals in shows. Which everyone here could see if you would bother to share actual quotes with context, instead of just your personal naive interpretation of them.

By that logic, he would not have ever sung one word live and would have done album-playback for every single song without any live ad-libs or anything.


Btw, I guess you'll have to admit now, that either in this OR in that other recent thread, where you contradicted the above claim by claiming to know that...
mj_frenzy;4306667 said:
Michael Jackson generally in his career did not like using pre-recorded vocals during his shows ...
...you were just making shit up to appear supee dupee knowledgeable once again. Your choice.
jod696bc374f1d3565.gif
 
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Hudson112

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Dang it, here we go, another lip sync argument thread. I don’t understand why we can’t accept that we may never fully know why he used playback the way he did, all we can do is speculate. And my theory is just that as he got older, it was harder for him to sing and dance at the same time the way he used to.
 

wonderouzmj

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I honestly at this poiny don't even mind the lipsync vocals on the history tour. I grind my teeth when his voice grinds on wbss. Im so used to non gritty mj. I hate to see him do his voice like that. I could drink soup for him when i hear him on history.
 

wonderouzmj

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Not sure but i can't remember him talking about the vocals. I remember he was saying that when they checked what the piano player did. And he was correcting him with a chord which he played to early. Then he said something like "it must be easier" and "i want the audience to hear it the way its on the record". Though, i am pretty sure he was talking about the instruments and arrangement. Not vocals.

"I want them the way I wrote them" definitely talking arrangements. Aint no way mj said he's gonna lipsync his tour... if that's the case...mj wouldn't ever perform live.
 

Rocketeer

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The show does look great, but I really want to watch Billie Jean because his hairstyle became undone during the performance (around 4 minutes)

 

MOR316

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Regarding the lip syncing...

If his live voice was anything like the DWT and HWT, I would not wanna hear it. If we're honest with ourselves, it was far from great at times. Understandable too considering the amount of shows he had done since he was a child. Wear and tear and all that
Not going into speculation as to the main reason why it sounded bad at times or why he decided to lip synch a lot during the 90s...It is what it is. Although, he should have at least recorded some new vocals for the playback to make it more believable :D

His vocals on the This Is It rehearsals sound good...If it is actually him singing and not dubbed by the producers of that film
 

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Regarding lip-syncing slow songs:

To us You Are Not Alone or Stranger In Moscow might appear easier to sing live because the songs are slow and simple. But actually that could be the very reason why they are more difficult to sing live, if a voice is not 100% in good shape. In such simple songs the focus is all on an on-point vocal performance, much more than in a fast, more dynamic dance song like WBSS or WDAN, where he doesn't have to sing a ton of long notes in perfectly clean pitch etc. That's probably something only a singer+dancer can confirm, but I think that's one reason why he never did these specific songs live.



I would like to bring up another factor that led to Michael Jackson's vocal damage which in turn also led to the fact that he had to rely more on lip-syncing during the HIStory Tour:

His increased medication (by taking various substances, prescribed drugs, etc,) right after the 1993 Chandler accusations against him also seem to have affected his voice in a very bad way, which made his lip-syncing more necessary for him than ever before.

So now you think you are not only a doctor who knows that "various substances" (pain medication) definitly lead to a vocal damage, you also were THE doctor that gave Michael Jackson exactly that diagnosis.

What the hell is wrong with you?
 
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GlenXoseph

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His vocals on the This Is It rehearsals sound good...If it is actually him singing and not dubbed by the producers of that film

WBSS, Human Nature, J5, Smooth Criminal (after the first verse only), TWYMMF (intro and ending only), IJCSLY, BoW, some ad-libs of MitM was rehearsal vocals from TII rehearsal. Other than those, dubbed.
 

analogue

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Regarding the lip syncing...

If his live voice was anything like the DWT and HWT, I would not wanna hear it. If we're honest with ourselves, it was far from great at times. Understandable too considering the amount of shows he had done since he was a child. Wear and tear and all that
Not going into speculation as to the main reason why it sounded bad at times or why he decided to lip synch a lot during the 90s...It is what it is. Although, he should have at least recorded some new vocals for the playback to make it more believable :D

His vocals on the This Is It rehearsals sound good...If it is actually him singing and not dubbed by the producers of that film

His live voice was still good on the DWT.
 
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Themidwestcowboy

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His live voice was still good on the DWT.

She's Out Of My life, IJCSLY, J5 medley, Beat It, Man In the mirror, the ending of TWYMMF and Bad, Billie Jean. His voice was still good. Not as good as Bad but definitely good. I never liked the way he sung Wbss live after the bad tour (first leg). That's just personal preference.
 
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