Michael - The Great Album Debate

WeegieMac

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Sorry to sound ignorant, but when people refer to the Cascio tracks, do they mean tracks produced by them or written/performed by them?
 

Mj4ever23

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Sorry to sound ignorant, but when people refer to the Cascio tracks, do they mean tracks produced by them or written/performed by them?

People are meaning the tacks that MJ (?) recorded in the Cascio's basement studio in 2007 while he was in their house for four months.
 

zizousama

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The Cascio's songs are not finished products. They are not ready to be released by a professional, let alone Michael Jackson. Heck, his 70's songs are better recorded than the Cascio's tracks. Even Michael doesn't sound like himself. No wonderful vocals or adlibs are there. He sounds like an average singer, and we know he ain't.
 

AnnieRUOkay89

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I wonder why no one ever took Michael's own words into consideration regarding these three recordings. He always said he was working on new music, during his years of being inactive, he also said he wasn't ready for any of that music to be released or to bring himself back into the spotlight, in terms of performing. Maybe this is why, I feel he was working on music, but he just wasn't himself yet, he still had to get over what was done to him in the previous years. It took a toll on him, mentally and physically, I'm confident this is Michael, but Michael at say 65-70%, listening to the recordings compared to Shout, WMCIG, We've Had Enough, and even Invincible, he sounds uninterested. Funny people can say they hear Michael in these records, but that he's not all the way there, also funny how no one took his physical state at the time into consideration.
 

siakfam

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What happened to the thread, about us hiring our own expert to analyze Breaking News?
 

love is magical

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I wonder why no one ever took Michael's own words into consideration regarding these three recordings. He always said he was working on new music, during his years of being inactive, he also said he wasn't ready for any of that music to be released or to bring himself back into the spotlight, in terms of performing. Maybe this is why, I feel he was working on music, but he just wasn't himself yet, he still had to get over what was done to him in the previous years. It took a toll on him, mentally and physically, I'm confident this is Michael, but Michael at say 65-70%, listening to the recordings compared to Shout, WMCIG, We've Had Enough, and even Invincible, he sounds uninterested. Funny people can say they hear Michael in these records, but that he's not all the way there, also funny how no one took his physical state at the time into consideration.

I hear you Annie. Michael was one incredible human being. A lesser man would not have survived the turmoils he went through. He suffered an unspeakable amount of pain.

It's totally understandable that Michael was not his full self during the 2007 recording sessions. He was still recovering mentally and physcially. Then, the question to the Estate is why they insisted in releasing demos that they know damn well Michael was not 100% in and do not meet Michael's standard? There are more than enough songs for them to pick from.

Actually, most fans are considerate. I can argue that the vocals on Hollywood Tonight and The Way You Love Me are not Michael's best. But, I don't see fans complaining about the quality of vocals of those two songs. We understand those two songs are not completed by Michael. We accept songs like Hollywood Tonight, TWYLM and Another Day becasue we hear Michael's voice in them. The songs are genuine Michael Jackson tracks.

Well, I also understand Sony and the Estate need to market this album to the mainstream market. They might think Monster and Breaking News add the mordern sound to the album. However, their decision to include tracks with questionable vocals toke away goodwill from fans.
 

mjscarousal

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The Cascio's songs are not finished products. They are not ready to be released by a professional, let alone Michael Jackson. Heck, his 70's songs are better recorded than the Cascio's tracks. Even Michael doesn't sound like himself. No wonderful vocals or adlibs are there. He sounds like an average singer, and we know he ain't.

Well Said... Ill admit I got the album because I wanted to have the tracks that are Michael but the album overall is not all of that.. It doesnt do anything to his legacy but it damn sure doesnt help it. I dont consider this to be a Michael Jackson album because Michael was not involved. The best song worth while on the album by far is Much to Soon.. very beautiful.
 

HIStory

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DYKWYCA and Slave to the Rythym to be honest are only hot to the fan base. This is why Monster was released instead. Those tracks are decent. Not what you call HOT

No matter whats released sales will be 225,000 to 300,000 in the USA

Even in 2001 Invincible sold 335,000 1st week in the US. Thats the range or a little under

Honestly, I don't care what is "hot" and what is "not hot", because quality acts and musicians tend to be not hot these days while overproduced teen pop without anything to say tends to be the "hot" thing. I don't care if MJ doesn't fit in this trend (actaully I think the songs which Sony obviously intended to make "trendy", those are the weakest songs of the album IMO). Most of the artists who are "hot" today won't even be remembered in 5-10 years time.
 

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Oh wow... not only are you going against what my ears tell me, but the trend in modern pop and even hip hop as of roughly 2007 has been a steady trend to more of a dance based mixed-genre. Do You Know Where Your Children are doesn't fall into this category as such, but you're in major denial to say that Monster is a better song then Slave to the Rhythm as it slots beautifully in this category. It's an upbeat song that showcases the real Michael Jackson singing at his best. I was beyond happiness when I realized I could remove Breaking News and the other two Cascio demos and burn myself a copy of the album with 3 leaked legitimate songs.

There would be more reasons as to why it wasn't included on the album instead of Monster. The biggest of which I can think of on the top of my head is this: Sony wouldn't want to exhaust all the best material in the first release. Mark my words that they give us a new release every 2 years for the foreseeable future, which EVERY major label would do and they would prefer to give us a couple (1 or 2) GREAT songs and have fillers to make up the bulk of the album.

I for one would have loved Sony/The Estate to really put their weight behind ONE major release. I don't care how long they took to put it together but make it a proper tribute to our idol.

I'm sure if the intention of releasing such an album may even sway the likes of Will.I.Am to change his stance on a posthumous release. Releasing albums with maybe a dash of brilliance in a sea of mediocrity will only work to turn off fans, and dilute Michael's genius which WILL be noticed by the next generation.

As much as people love as much Michael Jackson as they can get, would you prefer 20 average, half arsed albums with a sprinkling of genius... or ONE proper album, dedicated in being as close to a real Michael Jackson album as possible? - as if he were here putting it together.

They could have taken the input of many more people connected to Michael over the years. Include members of his family to give ideas, let his kids be heard on what they think - invite producers Michael has worked with and others that haven't but are well respected to listen and give their views on the music. Your response may be that this process will be long winded and many ideas will conflict with each other HOWEVER, they will be able to get a better understanding of a broader view of the album and show a higher level of care in delivering something worthy of a proper release.

Anyway, i'm waffling but you get the general idea. Thanks.

Slave to the Rythym doesn't even really have a beat. The demo version isn't a beat you can release right now. "Monster" in the car on a good stereo you can hear from 3 blocks away. Teddy Riley did great job on that beat and base of that track.

Slave to the Rythym does have potential, but the beat and instrumental needs updating. Give the vocals to Teddy Riley and let him give it a quality beat thats radio friendly.

He might have to speed up the vocals just a little though on a fast funkier BEAT
 

HIStory

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Oh wow... not only are you going against what my ears tell me, but the trend in modern pop and even hip hop as of roughly 2007 has been a steady trend to more of a dance based mixed-genre. Do You Know Where Your Children are doesn't fall into this category as such, but you're in major denial to say that Monster is a better song then Slave to the Rhythm as it slots beautifully in this category. It's an upbeat song that showcases the real Michael Jackson singing at his best. I was beyond happiness when I realized I could remove Breaking News and the other two Cascio demos and burn myself a copy of the album with 3 leaked legitimate songs.

There would be more reasons as to why it wasn't included on the album instead of Monster. The biggest of which I can think of on the top of my head is this: Sony wouldn't want to exhaust all the best material in the first release. Mark my words that they give us a new release every 2 years for the foreseeable future, which EVERY major label would do and they would prefer to give us a couple (1 or 2) GREAT songs and have fillers to make up the bulk of the album.

I for one would have loved Sony/The Estate to really put their weight behind ONE major release. I don't care how long they took to put it together but make it a proper tribute to our idol.

I'm sure if the intention of releasing such an album may even sway the likes of Will.I.Am to change his stance on a posthumous release. Releasing albums with maybe a dash of brilliance in a sea of mediocrity will only work to turn off fans, and dilute Michael's genius which WILL be noticed by the next generation.

As much as people love as much Michael Jackson as they can get, would you prefer 20 average, half arsed albums with a sprinkling of genius... or ONE proper album, dedicated in being as close to a real Michael Jackson album as possible? - as if he were here putting it together.

They could have taken the input of many more people connected to Michael over the years. Include members of his family to give ideas, let his kids be heard on what they think - invite producers Michael has worked with and others that haven't but are well respected to listen and give their views on the music. Your response may be that this process will be long winded and many ideas will conflict with each other HOWEVER, they will be able to get a better understanding of a broader view of the album and show a higher level of care in delivering something worthy of a proper release.

Anyway, i'm waffling but you get the general idea. Thanks.

Very good post and great points. I agree that it would have been waay better for Michael's legacy if we got only one album with the best tracks available. And no, they don't have to make them "hot" by today's standards. What is "hot" today is dated tomorrow. Michael's music is not like that and shouldn't be made that even if it means more moderate current sales.

Unfortunately what we have now is the worst of everything. The sales are not great because they managed to p*ss off the fans with the lack of quality production on some of the songs, plus we don't have great quality work either that is respectful to what Michael represented.

Very sad.
 

BabeBeMine

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To be honest Slave to the Rythym sounds like just another techno sound in california. Unless your not familair with techno, that beat has been used before in clubs in cali.

The track is not great to the point where sales increase.

Also Hip Hop beats are more popular to radio than techno beats. Especially in the USA

Simply play the instrumental to "Monster" vs "Slave to the Rythym"

Monster has way more base on a good stereo. Relates to todays popular music. The 'slave to the rythym" beat sounds like something from a 1992 underground club

I love MJ's vocals and would rather Teddy Riley take those vocals and give it a better beat
 

MJBlanket

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Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.
 

Dangerous 1991 HIStory

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.

Of course he is OK with it, he is dead.
MJ would not want it released, that's a fact. That doesn't mean it's bad that album was released, but it doesn't change the point.
 

paulik21

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.


i agree with you completely
 

MJ~And~Me

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.
i agree:yes::yes::yes:
 

earthlyme

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!


L.o.v.e.
Romi
 

*Navi*

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!


L.o.v.e.
Romi

Well, I said probably, but the assumption he maybe wouldn't have wanted the release now, is from the knowledge that MJ is a perfectionist. Of course we can't say for sure what MJ would have done.
 

Mj4ever23

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.

Great post!
He would've want that the world will remember him for a lot of time!
 
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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!

How can people say Michael wanted this album released?

For all we know, he might have done something completely different. He might have retired after the TII shows and not bothered with a new album.

You never know. I don't know what he wanted to do.
 

Jermaine

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

I completely agree with you, on that.

But businesses use this theory to make so much money, it's not even funny.
It's a shame people take fans' emotions and grief as an advantage to sell more.
Because in their mind, "they'll buy anything that we release".
 

mjsdot

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The only thing we can all be 100% sure that Michael wanted was for his children to be looked after financially as well as physically therefore as he was not a stupid man we can also sure he knew that it would mean releasing the music he left behind in order to pay off the debts and secure their financial future. It stands to reason that it will not be the way he may have released it had he lived but the songs were left for the benefit of his children (not us) and everyone needs to do the best they can with the songs left.

I also feel that if the songs were not meant for release they would either of been destroyed or he would have left instructions forbidding the release but there would have been no way of adequately providing for the childrens future there are only so many times people will buy rereleases of old songs they already have.
 

wolfrevenant

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.

In terms of Ne-Yo and Will.I.am, I don't think there's much to fault about them. Because even though they don't look out for the benefit of Michael's fans, they at least look out for the benefit of Michael's perfectionist mindset. Which is quite honourable in its own right.

Whether the album brings comfort to people or not, I doubt it's any of their concern, since they have relatively no connection to any of these people. Thus, their loyalty will most probably stay with Michael, and him only.

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!


L.o.v.e.
Romi

How can people say that Michael would have wanted this album released as well? It goes both ways. No one here is personally or spiritually, him.

It's hard to say how Will.I.am's or Neyo's opinion would have differed if they were part of the album (or if they would have accepted an offer to take part in the album in the first place). Before such an event has occured though, it is meaningless to judge them for something they haven't done.

What exactly is doing "right" by Michael? Even in terms of doing "right", it's still very subjective. Are we looking out for his legacy, his financial situation, or the man's own preferences? How do we even know his preferences in the first place?

The only thing we can all be 100% sure that Michael wanted was for his children to be looked after financially as well as physically therefore as he was not a stupid man we can also sure he knew that it would mean releasing the music he left behind in order to pay off the debts and secure their financial future. It stands to reason that it will not be the way he may have released it had he lived but the songs were left for the benefit of his children (not us) and everyone needs to do the best they can with the songs left.

I also feel that if the songs were not meant for release they would either of been destroyed or he would have left instructions forbidding the release but there would have been no way of adequately providing for the childrens future there are only so many times people will buy rereleases of old songs they already have.

I agree in the sense that, had the Estate been financially unstable, I'm sure he would have allowed for the release of those unreleased songs, as long as it helps to keep the Estate's finances healthy until his children take over.

However, I don't agree with the notion that if the songs weren't meant for release, he would have destroyed them. As far as we know, perhaps he kept demos of unreleased songs for future references? Perhaps he needed them for future times of dispute over copyright? I think the Mexico deposition, and the demos of Streetwalker and Dangerous should be sufficient proof of why Michael had to keep the unreleased songs, if not for the benefit of his children.
 
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