Michael - The Great Album Debate

BabeBeMine

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Oh wow... not only are you going against what my ears tell me, but the trend in modern pop and even hip hop as of roughly 2007 has been a steady trend to more of a dance based mixed-genre. Do You Know Where Your Children are doesn't fall into this category as such, but you're in major denial to say that Monster is a better song then Slave to the Rhythm as it slots beautifully in this category. It's an upbeat song that showcases the real Michael Jackson singing at his best. I was beyond happiness when I realized I could remove Breaking News and the other two Cascio demos and burn myself a copy of the album with 3 leaked legitimate songs.

There would be more reasons as to why it wasn't included on the album instead of Monster. The biggest of which I can think of on the top of my head is this: Sony wouldn't want to exhaust all the best material in the first release. Mark my words that they give us a new release every 2 years for the foreseeable future, which EVERY major label would do and they would prefer to give us a couple (1 or 2) GREAT songs and have fillers to make up the bulk of the album.

I for one would have loved Sony/The Estate to really put their weight behind ONE major release. I don't care how long they took to put it together but make it a proper tribute to our idol.

I'm sure if the intention of releasing such an album may even sway the likes of Will.I.Am to change his stance on a posthumous release. Releasing albums with maybe a dash of brilliance in a sea of mediocrity will only work to turn off fans, and dilute Michael's genius which WILL be noticed by the next generation.

As much as people love as much Michael Jackson as they can get, would you prefer 20 average, half arsed albums with a sprinkling of genius... or ONE proper album, dedicated in being as close to a real Michael Jackson album as possible? - as if he were here putting it together.

They could have taken the input of many more people connected to Michael over the years. Include members of his family to give ideas, let his kids be heard on what they think - invite producers Michael has worked with and others that haven't but are well respected to listen and give their views on the music. Your response may be that this process will be long winded and many ideas will conflict with each other HOWEVER, they will be able to get a better understanding of a broader view of the album and show a higher level of care in delivering something worthy of a proper release.

Anyway, i'm waffling but you get the general idea. Thanks.

Slave to the Rythym doesn't even really have a beat. The demo version isn't a beat you can release right now. "Monster" in the car on a good stereo you can hear from 3 blocks away. Teddy Riley did great job on that beat and base of that track.

Slave to the Rythym does have potential, but the beat and instrumental needs updating. Give the vocals to Teddy Riley and let him give it a quality beat thats radio friendly.

He might have to speed up the vocals just a little though on a fast funkier BEAT
 

HIStory

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Oh wow... not only are you going against what my ears tell me, but the trend in modern pop and even hip hop as of roughly 2007 has been a steady trend to more of a dance based mixed-genre. Do You Know Where Your Children are doesn't fall into this category as such, but you're in major denial to say that Monster is a better song then Slave to the Rhythm as it slots beautifully in this category. It's an upbeat song that showcases the real Michael Jackson singing at his best. I was beyond happiness when I realized I could remove Breaking News and the other two Cascio demos and burn myself a copy of the album with 3 leaked legitimate songs.

There would be more reasons as to why it wasn't included on the album instead of Monster. The biggest of which I can think of on the top of my head is this: Sony wouldn't want to exhaust all the best material in the first release. Mark my words that they give us a new release every 2 years for the foreseeable future, which EVERY major label would do and they would prefer to give us a couple (1 or 2) GREAT songs and have fillers to make up the bulk of the album.

I for one would have loved Sony/The Estate to really put their weight behind ONE major release. I don't care how long they took to put it together but make it a proper tribute to our idol.

I'm sure if the intention of releasing such an album may even sway the likes of Will.I.Am to change his stance on a posthumous release. Releasing albums with maybe a dash of brilliance in a sea of mediocrity will only work to turn off fans, and dilute Michael's genius which WILL be noticed by the next generation.

As much as people love as much Michael Jackson as they can get, would you prefer 20 average, half arsed albums with a sprinkling of genius... or ONE proper album, dedicated in being as close to a real Michael Jackson album as possible? - as if he were here putting it together.

They could have taken the input of many more people connected to Michael over the years. Include members of his family to give ideas, let his kids be heard on what they think - invite producers Michael has worked with and others that haven't but are well respected to listen and give their views on the music. Your response may be that this process will be long winded and many ideas will conflict with each other HOWEVER, they will be able to get a better understanding of a broader view of the album and show a higher level of care in delivering something worthy of a proper release.

Anyway, i'm waffling but you get the general idea. Thanks.

Very good post and great points. I agree that it would have been waay better for Michael's legacy if we got only one album with the best tracks available. And no, they don't have to make them "hot" by today's standards. What is "hot" today is dated tomorrow. Michael's music is not like that and shouldn't be made that even if it means more moderate current sales.

Unfortunately what we have now is the worst of everything. The sales are not great because they managed to p*ss off the fans with the lack of quality production on some of the songs, plus we don't have great quality work either that is respectful to what Michael represented.

Very sad.
 

BabeBeMine

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To be honest Slave to the Rythym sounds like just another techno sound in california. Unless your not familair with techno, that beat has been used before in clubs in cali.

The track is not great to the point where sales increase.

Also Hip Hop beats are more popular to radio than techno beats. Especially in the USA

Simply play the instrumental to "Monster" vs "Slave to the Rythym"

Monster has way more base on a good stereo. Relates to todays popular music. The 'slave to the rythym" beat sounds like something from a 1992 underground club

I love MJ's vocals and would rather Teddy Riley take those vocals and give it a better beat
 

MJBlanket

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Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.
 

Dangerous 1991 HIStory

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.

Of course he is OK with it, he is dead.
MJ would not want it released, that's a fact. That doesn't mean it's bad that album was released, but it doesn't change the point.
 

paulik21

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.


i agree with you completely
 

MJ~And~Me

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.
i agree:yes::yes::yes:
 

earthlyme

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!


L.o.v.e.
Romi
 

*Navi*

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!


L.o.v.e.
Romi

Well, I said probably, but the assumption he maybe wouldn't have wanted the release now, is from the knowledge that MJ is a perfectionist. Of course we can't say for sure what MJ would have done.
 

Mj4ever23

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.

Great post!
He would've want that the world will remember him for a lot of time!
 
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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!

How can people say Michael wanted this album released?

For all we know, he might have done something completely different. He might have retired after the TII shows and not bothered with a new album.

You never know. I don't know what he wanted to do.
 

Jermaine

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

I completely agree with you, on that.

But businesses use this theory to make so much money, it's not even funny.
It's a shame people take fans' emotions and grief as an advantage to sell more.
Because in their mind, "they'll buy anything that we release".
 

mjsdot

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The only thing we can all be 100% sure that Michael wanted was for his children to be looked after financially as well as physically therefore as he was not a stupid man we can also sure he knew that it would mean releasing the music he left behind in order to pay off the debts and secure their financial future. It stands to reason that it will not be the way he may have released it had he lived but the songs were left for the benefit of his children (not us) and everyone needs to do the best they can with the songs left.

I also feel that if the songs were not meant for release they would either of been destroyed or he would have left instructions forbidding the release but there would have been no way of adequately providing for the childrens future there are only so many times people will buy rereleases of old songs they already have.
 

wolfrevenant

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

....... while he was alive I bet he is now ok with it.
this album release helps many million fans with their grief and pain because Michael is not with us anymore.
Michael knows how we all suffer. Therefore I am sure he would aprove this release. The fans need something to hold on.

Ne-Yo, Will.I.am and probably some more speak out against the release, but have they ever thought about it this way?

Apart from the fact that this album is about to make money for some people it is a gift and comfort to so many other people on this planet.

:wub:

L.O.V.E.

In terms of Ne-Yo and Will.I.am, I don't think there's much to fault about them. Because even though they don't look out for the benefit of Michael's fans, they at least look out for the benefit of Michael's perfectionist mindset. Which is quite honourable in its own right.

Whether the album brings comfort to people or not, I doubt it's any of their concern, since they have relatively no connection to any of these people. Thus, their loyalty will most probably stay with Michael, and him only.

The thing I dont get is, How can people say Michael would have NEVER want this album released? Are they in him? Do they have some spirit connection with him and he told them that he wasnt happy about the album? Lets get real here. We know if Neyo or Will were on the album, they would've said, "IT's the best Album yet"...or something like that. We seem to "know" what Michael wants but yet, we aint doing right by him!!!


L.o.v.e.
Romi

How can people say that Michael would have wanted this album released as well? It goes both ways. No one here is personally or spiritually, him.

It's hard to say how Will.I.am's or Neyo's opinion would have differed if they were part of the album (or if they would have accepted an offer to take part in the album in the first place). Before such an event has occured though, it is meaningless to judge them for something they haven't done.

What exactly is doing "right" by Michael? Even in terms of doing "right", it's still very subjective. Are we looking out for his legacy, his financial situation, or the man's own preferences? How do we even know his preferences in the first place?

The only thing we can all be 100% sure that Michael wanted was for his children to be looked after financially as well as physically therefore as he was not a stupid man we can also sure he knew that it would mean releasing the music he left behind in order to pay off the debts and secure their financial future. It stands to reason that it will not be the way he may have released it had he lived but the songs were left for the benefit of his children (not us) and everyone needs to do the best they can with the songs left.

I also feel that if the songs were not meant for release they would either of been destroyed or he would have left instructions forbidding the release but there would have been no way of adequately providing for the childrens future there are only so many times people will buy rereleases of old songs they already have.

I agree in the sense that, had the Estate been financially unstable, I'm sure he would have allowed for the release of those unreleased songs, as long as it helps to keep the Estate's finances healthy until his children take over.

However, I don't agree with the notion that if the songs weren't meant for release, he would have destroyed them. As far as we know, perhaps he kept demos of unreleased songs for future references? Perhaps he needed them for future times of dispute over copyright? I think the Mexico deposition, and the demos of Streetwalker and Dangerous should be sufficient proof of why Michael had to keep the unreleased songs, if not for the benefit of his children.
 

love is magical

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

In terms of Ne-Yo and Will.I.am, I don't think there's much to fault about them. Because even though they don't look out for the benefit of Michael's fans, they at least look out for the benefit of Michael's perfectionist mindset. Which is quite honourable in its own right.

Whether the album brings comfort to people or not, I doubt it's any of their concern, since they have relatively no connection to any of these people. Thus, their loyalty will most probably stay with Michael, and him only.



How can people say that Michael would have wanted this album released as well? It goes both ways. No one here is personally or spiritually, him.

It's hard to say how Will.I.am's or Neyo's opinion would have differed if they were part of the album (or if they would have accepted an offer to take part in the album in the first place). Before such an event has occured though, it is meaningless to judge them for something they haven't done.

What exactly is doing "right" by Michael? Even in terms of doing "right", it's still very subjective. Are we looking out for his legacy, his financial situation, or the man's own preferences? How do we even know his preferences in the first place?



I agree in the sense that, had the Estate been financially unstable, I'm sure he would have allowed for the release of those unreleased songs, as long as it helps to keep the Estate's finances healthy until his children take over.

However, I don't agree with the notion that if the songs weren't meant for release, he would have destroyed them. As far as we know, perhaps he kept demos of unreleased songs for future references? Perhaps he needed them for future times of dispute over copyright? I think the Mexico deposition, and the demos of Streetwalker and Dangerous should be sufficient proof of why Michael had to keep the unreleased songs, if not for the benefit of his children.

Agree with everything you said here. :agree:
 

Sophielo

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

We will never know for sure as Michael isn't here to tell people what he wanted. I don't think Ne Yo and will.i.am meant to cause any harm. They are entitled to their opinions as much as we all are. But as was rightly said is that Michael wanted his children to be financially stable for the rest of their lives.
 

Ohood

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

The only thing we can all be 100% sure that Michael wanted was for his children to be looked after financially as well as physically therefore as he was not a stupid man we can also sure he knew that it would mean releasing the music he left behind in order to pay off the debts and secure their financial future. It stands to reason that it will not be the way he may have released it had he lived but the songs were left for the benefit of his children (not us) and everyone needs to do the best they can with the songs left.

I also feel that if the songs were not meant for release they would either of been destroyed or he would have left instructions forbidding the release but there would have been no way of adequately providing for the childrens future there are only so many times people will buy rereleases of old songs they already have.

Exactly , the Estate Excuoters(Mcline and Branca ) were chosen for this purpose !
 

*Navi*

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

This thread is drifting away from the intention I opened it for.

Of course the children come first, there is no discussion about that or will ever be.

I don't talk about the loyalty of anybody towards MJ. Those people are concerned about the album release and Michaels wishes? If they do they have to think about the fans too, we were very important to MJ.



I forgot to log in with my profile (MJBlanket). This one is my husband's profile. Hope there won't arise any missunderstandings. L.O.V.E.
 

marebear

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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

What did Neyo say?

I don't know what Michael would want but he created an estate for a reason and he must of thought about what would happen to his work if something happened to him. I have a hard time believing he never thought about it. He saw what happened after Elvis, John Lennon, Tupac etc after they died.
 
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Re: Despite the fact that MJ probably would have never wanted this album to be released........

If Michael had never wanted, any music to be released after his dead, he would have done a clause in his will, all of his music left-overs to be destroyed or explicit no music to be released (demos, finished or unfinished songs), in case of dead.
If Michael problably may not wanted to released music to be the way it is released (soundwise), it's a different thing.
He made a will and secured everything. And I don't think he forgot about the most important thing in his possession, his music.
So I think everyone should stop with that "Michael never had wanted..." thing, fans and celebrities. It just sounds laughable.
 

powernoize

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in my honest opinion, i thought i would pose an interesting question. i for one think michael's voice is the vocal for every track on the new cd. why wouldn't they replace the 2 songs that most are saying are not michael (breaking news, monster) with the shitload of other tracks that are in the vaults? there is not a shortage of material . it just makes no sense. i mean and if one wants to make the argument that they're focusing on his last recordings, well, Behind The Mask clearly sounds like an old michael vocal take.
 

MJ~And~Me

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look the point is this michael was someone who promoted his albums in a BIG way he did anything he could to promote it in a big way or a small way but even if it was a small promotion because he has got a big fanbase that everything was huge so if he was someone that just let his albums come out then i dont think there would be a big row about it :no:
 

powernoize

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i really wish they would put out some of the older material. mottola had stated that sony had dozens and dozens of old songs. by the way, i find it quite sad that people are already posting fake songs again after this release, eg: Michael ii 2011....really sad.
 

botdf

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It's a learning experience - we all learn from our mistakes. Certain subset of fans reacted to the sound of certain songs. Sony and producers will take that info in. They can choose two paths:

(1) Learn from the experience - take the feedback - lay off the melodyne/autotune - let his voice speak for itself

(2) ignore the criticism and repeat the same mistakes. Or ignore the criticism and take it for what it is, feedback, and ignore the feedback.

It's really up to them, Sony and the producers. Read what's at the back of the Michael CD. Read the "disclaimer". They could keep printing that on the next 3 CDs. They could keep experimenting. We're not beta testers we're listening to the final results. They don't have "test screenings" like in the movie industry. Maybe they should???
 

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Lessons have been learnt for the next album. We don't want overproduced vocals with melodyne etc. Let the voice do the speaking. Touch up the songs by all means but as much as I love the album I admit it was way too overproduced. The Much Too Soon leak was better than the album version in my opinion. They don't need all that layering.
 

powernoize

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i agree with all of the above, they shouldn't tinker with the vocals. i simply stated that i beleive it's michael's voice (tampered with in some instances more than others) and not some impostor. the impostor scenario made no sense to me because if it were fake it could easily be replaced with a real one.
 

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Sony get your act together!!!!!!!

Where is the promo in countries!!!!!!!!
Where is the airplay on the radio of a new single !!!!!!!!! (does sony pay for some airplay yes or no????) this is my big question to all the fans because this is the biggest problem which sabottage all mj albums in recent years
invincible no airplay on radio stations.
Release a uptempo single and make sure you can reach the younger teenagers
with a proper video clip not a old clip of images!!! Sony can do better than this!!!
Promote than you will have money sony this is what you really want of mj not the art. But if you want big money you have to invest it just like in the thriller days
invest in a clip(like mj did with thriller) oh yeah you didn"t support that too
you were to cheap than too. Investment and support an artist with great ideas and you will have much more profit you fools at sony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So thats cleared that"s the real problem at sony they don"t invest. Just like in the 80 music isn't selling industry is dead. Sony than you must be creative invest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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