Michael - The Great Album Debate

Pentum

Proud Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
7,208
Points
83
Location
Norway
kreen;3504939 said:
If I understand correctly, you want me to point out to you parts of the songs that sound especially like MJ to me? I know it is useless, because no matter what I point out, the anti-Cascio people will deny there's any resemblance. I don't have the songs here, but I think Keep Your Head Up, form start to finish, sounds absolutely like MJ. From the « angry », « roaring » part in the middle (is it the bridge?), to the falsetto parts.
So how come we can find falsetto notes in Jason's songs that are identical to the ones in KYHU, but we can not find any falsetto notes in Michael's songs that are identical?
 

Chamife

Proud Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
1,123
Points
0
Location
The Netherlands
I find it extremely sad and it it also angries me that (lifelong?) fans don't recognize his voice and his style of singing. I guess they listened and enjoyed Michael's voice/singing in a different way then I did, because all the little details and nuances don't matter to them in this debate, as if they never existed and I really don't understand that. And the angryness is because these little sighs, auuww's, hick-ups ( I don't like to name these noizes, because that sounds like he planned them and to me it was always just Michael singing) made all of the difference to me and made me love Michael Jackson.

It's hard to explain.
 

coolcat75

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
130
Points
0
I find it extremely sad and it it also angries me that (lifelong?) fans don't recognize his voice and his style of singing. I guess they listened and enjoyed Michael's voice/singing in a different way then I did, because all the little details and nuances don't matter to them in this debate, as if they never existed and I really don't understand that. And the angryness is because these little sighs, auuww's, hick-ups ( I don't like to name these noizes, because that sounds like he planned them and to me it was always just Michael singing) made all of the difference to me and made me love Michael Jackson.

It's hard to explain.

Yes, Michael's adlibs are very awesome. They make his songs complete.

However, in the song Black Widow, they layer other acapella adlibs over each other.
For example, when James Porte and the other singer sing "She wants you boy ooh" you can hear the acapella of why you wanna trip on me in the background. Listen closely.
They also repeat the same adlibs over and over.
Your nasty
Your dirty
You lovely
Your lovely
Your evil

It gets annoying.
There are also elemens of DS in the song.

And in Breaking News, why in the World would mj sing
You turn your back on love and you cant get it again

Theres is no way he would sing that.
In Keep Your Head Up, one minute the singer is singing that shes looking for a job, and a finer place to stay, and two lines later shes working two jobs and keeping alive.
And a line later, she works in a "rest-a-raunt" night and day.
And in water, its raining, yet it feels like warm july.

Fail.
 

kreen

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,014
Points
63
You clearly didn't read my other post where I explained that Malachi is not needed upon doubters to be sure that it is not Michael Jackson singing. => http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Album-Debate?p=3504910&viewfull=1#post3504910

I did read it, but the number one argument in the anti-Cascio's arsenal is that those comparisons with Malachi supposedly show he sang the songs. So if one agrees that it's not necessarily Malachi singing, but some other mysterious impersonator, it means all of those comparisons are not really damning after all, which is exactly what I've been saying.
 

kreen

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,014
Points
63
Jason is a cop. He released his Critical album, after numerous delays, just a couple of months before the Michael album came out. In fact, some of his stuff, which had been around for years, wasn't registered with the US copyright office for the first time until only one day after the 'Ason' compilation material was registered by Eddie. Since his website was hacked, he has removed it, along with all his social networking accounts and has made no attempt to defend his position. Even his wife deleted her facebook after the album came out. I could tell you a lot more about Jason but this isn't the place. I doubt he will ever release any more music of his own. He got his wish, which was to "be" Michael. And just because he hasn't bought a mansion doesn't mean he hasn't made good money from Eddie.

Earlier, you pointed us towards the blog maintained by Malachi's "manager" (really, how official can that title be when we're talking about an unsigned, amateur, part-time singer?). You seemed to think it held some sort of key to the whole thing. Well, I had read it before of course, and what it shows is that Jason's "manager" was indeed called up by the Estate, and that he was so starstruck and proud at having had such a passing brush with celebrity that he couldn't help but blog about it three days in a row! All of which seems to support the official version of events, as described by the Estate's lawyer in a letter to fans. The fact the Estate called Malachi's representative before the whole controversy even became public shows that they really were adamant about not putting any illegitimate song on their album. And the fact they didn't take them out right then and there shows that whatever they were told at that point by Malachi/his manager really did convince them there was no truth to any rumor the songs were fake.

Of course, you'd probably have us believe that Malachi's manager, who's at best a small-time, no-name, struggling music entrepreneur, would manage to fool a big-shot, Hollywood-connected attorney and wrap him around his little finger.

And in the message I quoted just above, you manage to imagine that the fact Malachi got off the Internet after the controvery broke somehow proves he's guilty. Um, doesn't it just show that there was a ton of hard-core, emotional MJ fans who suddenly thought he was the worst human being since Stalin, and that he obviously didn't want his wife or himself to be exposed to those nutjobs? I'd get off the Internet too if I had to deal with... myself! :)

And I'm keeping the best for last. So why did Malachi take part in this criminal hoax, which could potentially ruin his life, land him in jail, destroy his marriage and make him a laughing stock and an object of scorn for the whole world? For the glory? No, since he's not admitting to any of it. For the money? But you yourself say he's still living an everyday life, busting his butt as a cop. So why did he do it? "To "be" Michael". Yeah, that seems worth it, when no one can even know about it, because if they did, he'd end up destroyed. Come on, man.
 

kreen

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,014
Points
63
So how come we can find falsetto notes in Jason's songs that are identical to the ones in KYHU, but we can not find any falsetto notes in Michael's songs that are identical?

I've answered this at length in my previous posts : search for my recent posts in this thread.
 

kreen

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,014
Points
63
The comparisons prove it's Jason. End of.

Welcome to the Internet, where one just disregards people's precise explanations and nuanced arguments as to why their theory doesn't hold water, and just stays in the confines of their initial thoughts.

Next up : mocking and sneering (it's already started!)
 

azsummergirl

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
583
Points
0
Location
Phoenix, AZ, US
trolls-doll-red-hair.jpg


ON ANOTHER NOTE:
it was weird to see that comment about it being "likeIt's like twins. The first time you see them, they look the same. The more you see them, the more differences you encounter that you had not seen before. Learn Jackson, learn Malachi. Think about why you fell for several fakes before. Be honest. Accept the unacceptable.

it's weird to read this. i swear, i said the EXACT same thing months ago--maybe in this forum? or maybe not, i'm not sure. But i totally agree. i used to think my friends kristin and korinna (who are identical twins) looked the same. i would always be afraid to call them by name for fear that i'd get it wrong. After years of getting to know them, i can't even believe i ever thought they looked the same. their features are COMPLETELY different and very easy to distinguish. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

I think that's *possibly* why i was so quick to disbelieve these tracks. besides the fact that they sound nothing like michael, i WAS familiar with jason malachi's music, and had listened to it in the past. Not a lot, but i'd definitely heard his cds once or twice. I think would be more of a leap to think these songs are not michael if you're not used to hearing any impersonators.
 

StellaJackson

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
2,736
Points
63
Kreen, it doesn't matter what you argue, the point is that these songs sound identical to Jason. Unless of course, Michael decided to pronounce his words just like Jason, develop Jason's accent and vibrato and choose not to do any of his trademark vocal tics or handclaps, foot taps etc while recording.
 

Chamife

Proud Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
1,123
Points
0
Location
The Netherlands
coolcat75;3505251 said:
Yes, Michael's adlibs are very awesome. They make his songs complete.

However, in the song Black Widow, they layer other acapella adlibs over each other.
For example, when James Porte and the other singer sing "She wants you boy ooh" you can hear the acapella of why you wanna trip on me in the background. Listen closely.
They also repeat the same adlibs over and over.
Your nasty
Your dirty
You lovely
Your lovely
Your evil

It gets annoying.
There are also elemens of DS in the song.

And in Breaking News, why in the World would mj sing
You turn your back on love and you cant get it again

Theres is no way he would sing that.
In Keep Your Head Up, one minute the singer is singing that shes looking for a job, and a finer place to stay, and two lines later shes working two jobs and keeping alive.
And a line later, she works in a "rest-a-raunt" night and day.
And in water, its raining, yet it feels like warm july.

Fail.
To me the most important difference is that when Michael sings, the words come alive. He made a 10 year old girl who's first language was Dutch (and maybe only knew 'yes' and 'no' in English) know what the song was about. I felt the songs just because of the way Michael sang them. By his intonation, ad-libs etc…he learned me the meaning of the words. I’m not exaggerating when I say that I really believe he laid the foundation for my knowledge of the English language.

When I hear the Cascio songs, I have this picture in my mind of the writer holding a pen in his one hand and a rhymingdictionairy in the other. A lot of meaningless words that rhyme. I don't feel anything. The singer doesn't believe in what he sings and I can't blame him.
 
Last edited:

Pentum

Proud Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
7,208
Points
83
Location
Norway
I wonder why Michael decided to pronounce the word waiting like "wai'in'" in the two cascio songs. He has never done that in any song, but wait, JASON HAS.........................
 

Chamife

Proud Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
1,123
Points
0
Location
The Netherlands
I wonder why Michael decided to pronounce the word waiting like "wai'in'" in the two cascio songs. He has never done that in any song, but wait, JASON HAS.........................
Ahu..and his pronouncation of the 's', in which I sometimes detected a little, tiny lisp....why didn't he do that anymore in all those s'es in all those 12 songs? Oh, wait...he probably had something done to his front teeth. That must be it.
 

BUMPER SNIPPET

Guest
Ahu..and his pronouncation of the 's', in which I sometimes detected a little, tiny lisp....why didn't he do that anymore in all those s'es in all those 12 songs? Oh, wait...he probably had something done to his front teeth. That must be it.

But he had done something to his front teeth only for the 12 songs in order to make a special effect. After he put the front teeth back as they used to be.
 

wolfrevenant

Proud Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
247
Points
0
I'm of the opinion that some people tend to follow official documents and statements (be it scientific reports, facts, etc.) rather religiously, even if some little voice in their head is nagging them otherwise. Not that there's one type of person that is superior to the other in terms of perception, but, I feel that no matter how many times the doubters declare that so-and-so incident occuring will be the end to all debates, things will always remain as they are. We waited for all 12 Cascio tracks to leak, and they have (sort of). So, what now? Point is, no matter how many times you dog the believers into showing their own comparison clips of Michael v.s "Michael", and no matter how many times you try to give an education on the vocal traits of Michael Jackson and Jason Malachi, nothing will ever happen unless you play along in their game of official documents and statements, scientific reports, whose experts are more well-established, etc.
 

love is magical

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
4,704
Points
0
Location
New Jersey, US
I'm of the opinion that some people tend to follow official documents and statements (be it scientific reports, facts, etc.) rather religiously, even if some little voice in their head is nagging them otherwise. Not that there's one type of person that is superior to the other in terms of perception, but, I feel that no matter how many times the doubters declare that so-and-so incident occuring will be the end to all debates, things will always remain as they are. We waited for all 12 Cascio tracks to leak, and they have (sort of). So, what now? Point is, no matter how many times you dog the believers into showing their own comparison clips of Michael v.s "Michael", and no matter how many times you try to give an education on the vocal traits of Michael Jackson and Jason Malachi, nothing will ever happen unless you play along in their game of official documents and statements, scientific reports, whose experts are more well-established, etc.

But the so-called scientific report is vague to say the least. The musicologist testing is not as reliable as so many believe. I said many times that there are many limitations in singing voice recognition.

BTW, I have listened to a Bruce Swedien interview recently. He had an interview with InSession on the first day of trial (or the day before). Bruce was very sweet and had only good thing to say about Michael. But, one of his answers totally surprised me. He talked about Childhood and commented on how beautiful the song is. Yet, he didn't remember who wrote Childhood!!! I was like "hello! Bruce!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME???" No disrespect. I know he probably has worked on thousands and thousands of songs and there is no way he remembers every single detail. On the other hands, some fans here can probably recite all the credits in liner notes of all of Michael Jackson albums. Most fans know MICHAEL JACKSON composed and wrote Childhood - his most autobiographical song. What I'm trying to say is that don't underestimate fans' knowledge. Bruce Swedien worked with Michael Jackson, but he probably doesn't breath Michael Jackson like many of us do EVERY SINGLE DAY.
 

Chamife

Proud Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
1,123
Points
0
Location
The Netherlands
I'm of the opinion that some people tend to follow official documents and statements (be it scientific reports, facts, etc.) rather religiously, even if some little voice in their head is nagging them otherwise. Not that there's one type of person that is superior to the other in terms of perception, but, I feel that no matter how many times the doubters declare that so-and-so incident occuring will be the end to all debates, things will always remain as they are. We waited for all 12 Cascio tracks to leak, and they have (sort of). So, what now? Point is, no matter how many times you dog the believers into showing their own comparison clips of Michael v.s "Michael", and no matter how many times you try to give an education on the vocal traits of Michael Jackson and Jason Malachi, nothing will ever happen unless you play along in their game of official documents and statements, scientific reports, whose experts are more well-established, etc.
I think you're right. And about that little voice: I hope so.

Of course proof is important, we all know that. I don't need lengthy posts about that. I read the first ones, but to be honest....after a while I stopped reading. Proof is nr. 2 for me. Nr. 1 is feeling. How do the songs make you feel? It's Michael, right? You must feel something? I miss lengthy or inspired posts about that from 'believers'. But I could have missed something.
 

Aniram

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
2,191
Points
48
I think a lot of it also has to do with people desperately wanting a new Michael album and an infinite amount of Michael Jackson songs, and also that Jason Malachi doing his best Michael Jackson impersonation is good enough for a lot of people to basically be Michael Jackson.

Like, maybe they don't realize they are fake at first, then someone tells them and they're like "Oh well, it sounds enough like him I'm gonna keep thinking it's him and they can't prove it's not so whatever."

I mean, I could have gone in that mindset because I enjoy Monster, Breaking News, and Keep Your Head Up. I defended these songs at first, and I do love new Michael Jackson songs like everyone else does, I would love to listen to all of his music.

But all I can do is be honest with myself and realize that I don't hear the normal Michael Jackson in the Cascio songs, it's more of a voice identical to Jason Malachi, who admittedly can do a pretty good Michael Jackson at times but the fact is that it's impossible to sound 100% like someone you are not.
 

Aniram

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
2,191
Points
48
Hey Pentum, there's no way to embed tudou videos is there? It'd be nice if people could share on facebook and stuff. I tried but can't get it to work, you just have to link it. Oh well, thanks a lot! :)
 

kreen

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,014
Points
63
One last thing (I think I’ve actually run out of points to make!): many here claim to have noticed differences in breathing, pronunciation and vibrato in ALL TWELVE Cascio songs. This is certainly amazing to me, seeing as how most of the Cascio songs have not been released, except in short, low-quality leaked excerpts with an annoying, electronic voice-over all over them. But of course, those terrible, unnatural, experience-marring listening conditions make no difference, when you can just “feel” it’s not MJ.
 

BUMPER SNIPPET

Guest
kreen;3506098 said:
One last thing (I think I’ve actually run out of points to make!): many here claim to have noticed differences in breathing, pronunciation and vibrato in ALL TWELVE Cascio songs. This is certainly amazing to me, seeing as how most of the Cascio songs have not been released, except in short, low-quality leaked excerpts with an annoying, electronic voice-over all over them. But of course, those terrible, unnatural, experience-marring listening conditions make no difference, when you can just “feel” it’s not MJ.

We need a split of a second to know when Michael sings: here 7 seconds music and one second Michael's voice, we know it's him.

[youtube]VN3dizgj3V4[/youtube]
 

kreen

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,014
Points
63
New comparison, guys. Kreen, you should check it out... http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ZqgfRLdqYG0/ (ignore the empty mins)

And a new channel: All comparison videos are uploaded here included TPI's videos. Just bookmark it or something. Check it out, it has a sweet and honest profile picture (along with the name).

http://www.tudou.com/home/_96191402

Again, I direct you to my earlier posts on the matter of comparisons, and why they are futile. Just creating more and more of them doesn't make them any more useful.

Listening to these comparisons have only ever led me to 3 things :

1- I get a headache from them.
2- I marvel at how good Malachi is at imitating MJ, in the same way one marvels at someone who knows any cool parlor trick.
3- I revel in the irony that the Malachi haters among you have in the end spent more time listening to his albums than his most dedicated fans!
 
Top