Michael's mom reported missing /Grandma's Home/TJ appointed Co/Guardian with Katherine

[TheChosenOne]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

SoS - I did not take your post personally. And I have stepped away from this issue and looked in the mirror quite a bit (even said so earlier in this thread).

I will concede that sometimes we can go a bit overboard in our comments and we can become a bit hysterical and hyperbolic. But by and large we have had a spirited MEANINGFUL discussion of the actions of the Jackson family. But I guess what gets my goat is people talking about what Michael would have wanted and how we should behave as MJ fans WITHOUT adding in substantive way to the issues that have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.

We can "be like Mike" and still call out those defame and dishonour him.

 

[SoS]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

It is imho completely redundant and sadly naive to state that the family did not "make" Michael Jackson, that he "made" himself as though that statement in itself is new information for it is not.

His family gave him a context into which to grow and regardless to it all, his fans need to be showing more respect to his family because they are BLOOD. They deserve to be treated at least as good as every fan's own family would deserve to be treated by COMPLETE STRANGERS which fans here ARE, period....


...and who should really be so far removed from their own humanity that they forget these famous people are mere mortals just like them and have family members both close and distant who would probably like to be able to read a fan site without being offended by cruelty by people who claim to "love" their BLOOD relative "the most". If it were me all I'd be able to say is, yeah right. Treat mine like you'd want yours to be treated.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

[QUOTE

Originally Posted by elegantly wasted
the family did not make michael jackson, michael made michael. With the talent he had he'd have been the biggest star in the world with or without j5.][/QUOTE]


Yes that is 100% true

 

[SoS]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

Here is a case in point of fan/s acting like THE MEDIA. I did not say his family made him. PAY ATTENTION:

I SAID:

They are the reason he had the career that you know of today.

Without the context of sharpening his talent into a marketable skill, there is no telling what might have become of that sensitive, talented boy from Gary. Someone with his set of uniqueness would need a miracle to survive such a place. He had one. His family.

And oh by the way, his brothers couldn't all be but so lazy and have but so much fun either being a PART OF the most successful R&B and youth group in history.

They sung background on a LOT of songs - and went on a LOT of tours as kids, something we can't fathom - they had to do a lot of shows and everything else - - none of which can we all fathom.

They did not lose their childhood to the degree MJ did but they did NOT have a normal childhood either. They all went through it together in a certain kind of way.

They all at the very least deserve not to be cursed, slandered and called out of their name

and deserve compassion if for no other reason than just how much they all originally did give, together.

 

[Rhilo]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

^I'm sorry - I don't agree. Lots of child stars are pushed on the scene by stage parents, and while their success at that point may also depend on their parents' determination, many rarely make the transition into adult star. If they do, it has nothing to do with family or parents, but their own unique choices and circumstances.

Michael's success as an adult star surpassed anything he had achieved before. From around 18, he was his own man. He didn't depend on family or Joseph for business decisions or contacts. Look at where he took his career, and where his brothers' careers ended. That alone proves Michael's success as an adult star was his and his alone - his family had nothing to do with it.

And I loathe when people try to tell otherwise.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

Michael's success as an adult star surpassed anything he had achieved before. From around 18, he was his own man. He didn't depend on family or Joseph for business decisions or contacts. Look at where he took his career, and where his brothers' careers ended. That alone proves Michael's success as an adult star was his and his alone - his family had nothing to do with it.

Rhilo is right the reason why michael was so successful was cuz of his own talent & hard wark ethics. Michael was his own man when it came to his carerr and thats what got fans to love & belive in him and as for hsi bros im sorry but they just dont have that IT factor like michael did

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

 

[SoS]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

You who feel he would denounce his family over recent events reported in the news are wanting to remove Michael's foundation in order to justify your hatefulness

you can't because simply Michael loved his family and respected them

Michael's fans are looking at the end results (all the great sold out solo tours etc.), not the process of development beginning with the foundation layed for him which he acknowledged all the time.

 

[Rhilo]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

Process? his brothers had the same 'foundation' and underwent the same 'process', but why wasn't their outcome the same? Right lol.

Anyhow this thread is about the grandma napping and subsequent activities. I don't see how any of this is related to that. And it doesn't excuse the actions of Michael's siblings; their pathetic attempt to remove the executors MICHAEL CHOSE and their complete diregard for his final wishes.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

Yes, let us get back on track with the topic at hand.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

It becomes tiresome when certain fans berate fans who do not condone ALL Jackson behaviors as it relates to Michael Jackson and his legacy. Maybe we should have a thread on "Why I agree with ALL Jackson decisions/behaviors relating to Michael" or "Why the Jacksons decisions/behaviors related to Michael Jackson are not my business." Then, we could leave this thread and others like it to continue to discuss the specific topic of the thread and the documents relating to the topic, without being told we are acting against Michael wishes.

 

[qbee]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

MOD NOTE
Ok Lets all get back on topic now. Please discuss the topic not each other .
any futher OFF TOPIC posts from either side of this issue will be deleted without Notice.
I dont want to have to clean this thread to stop the replies so your cooperation is appreciated.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

MOD NOTE
Ok Lets all get back on topic now. Please discuss the topic not each other .
any futher OFF TOPIC posts from either side of this issue will be deleted without Notice.
I dont want to have to clean this thread to stop the replies so your cooperation is appreciated.

Thank you. Can the happy dance person moonwalk?

 

[mjjmsc]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

^I'm sorry - I don't agree. Lots of child stars are pushed on the scene by stage parents, and while their success at that point may also depend on their parents' determination, many rarely make the transition into adult star. If they do, it has nothing to do with family or parents, but their own unique choices and circumstances.

Michael's success as an adult star surpassed anything he had achieved before. From around 18, he was his own man. He didn't depend on family or Joseph for business decisions or contacts. Look at where he took his career, and where his brothers' careers ended. That alone proves Michael's success as an adult star was his and his alone - his family had nothing to do with it.

And I loathe when people try to tell otherwise.

I totally agree with you, Michael was a great human being and a superb artist in spite of all the bad things that happened to him, he loved his family, but sometimes they act completely wrong!

 

[Victory22]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

Katherine should have so much money in the bank after all she's been given over the years, it's her own fault that she hands it out to her cubs instead.

The cubs should also have lots of money saved and invested after all they have been given but why save and invest when all they had to do is get more from Michael.

 

[Pimboli]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

The cubs should also have lots of money saved and invested after all they have been given but why save and invest when all they had to do is get more from Michael.

Well, according to them and the cubs crap, Michael's bank was their bank too, so i guess in their mind they did have a lot in the bank...

 

[Victory22]

^I'm sorry - I don't agree. Lots of child stars are pushed on the scene by stage parents, and while their success at that point may also depend on their parents' determination, many rarely make the transition into adult star. If they do, it has nothing to do with family or parents, but their own unique choices and circumstances.

Michael's success as an adult star surpassed anything he had achieved before. From around 18, he was his own man. He didn't depend on family or Joseph for business decisions or contacts. Look at where he took his career, and where his brothers' careers ended. That alone proves Michael's success as an adult star was his and his alone - his family had nothing to do with it.

And I loathe when people try to tell otherwise.

This is key and thank you so much for saying it. I am sick and tired of Michael’s talent, drive and dedication to his art being minimized and belittled in order to pump up and excuse Joe Jackson and the cubs. Michael sacrificed his personal life and spent countless hours perfecting his talent. He sacrificed rest, personal comfort and his privacy to make himself the greatest entertainer the world has ever known. He accomplished what he did without the help of Joe, Jackie, Jermaine, Tito, Marlon and Randy. I resent more than I can express the entirely lame attempts over the past three years to rewrite history and flip the script on MJ as if the Jackson’s are responsible for his incredible success and achievements. Let’s face facts; Michael was an abused SLAVE under Joe Jackson’s control and guidance. He was held back by having to carry his brothers and you can see the explosive difference in his performances after he broke away from them. Love and respect the Jackson’s if you must but please don’t ever throw Michael under the bus in order to defend them.

 

[MIST]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

As far as I know, it`s rare for a child star to become more successful as an adult.If Joseph were behind it then all siblings would have been successful as adults too.

I wonder who got the idea about taking the father in the video for BOW on a "trip"

Did Michael say anything about his parents and siblings his last years?
I know he mentioned some of them in This is it but I suppose journalists had other questions in interviews than them.

 

[SoS]

Back on Topic -

There are at least two bits of conjecture that I see in these threads talking about recent incidents, particularly this thread. One is why the family is questioning the will and executors. This is something that goes on in families. The media would like to make it be all about the money that is being earned by the estate and the fact that the questions are raised by people not left in the will. Those are the media headlines and I've noticed fans taking those headlines and running roughshod over the Jackson family. Another bit of presumptioius conjecture I have noticed has to do with Prince's statement that his dad warned him about certain people. That is what was said. Not what people, not about what types of things. Prince remember, was 12 when his dad left us, so gleen from it what we can without adding unto it is all we can do without additional info. Another bit of cojecture was the Jacksons' intentions for getting Kathrine away.

I'm not saying don't speculate or draw your own conclusions or fill in the blanks your self. I'm saying don't forget that what you are doing is speculating, drawing your own conclusions and filling in the blanks your self.

This is key and thank you so much for saying it. I am sick and tired of Michael’s talent, drive and dedication to his art being minimized and belittled in order to pump up and excuse Joe Jackson and the cubs. Michael sacrificed is personal life and spent countless hours perfecting his talent. He sacrificed rest, personal comfort and his privacy to make himself the greatest entertainer the world has ever known. He accomplished what he did without the help of Joe, Jackie, Jermaine, Tito, Marlon and Randy. I resent more than I can express the entirely lame attempts over the past three years to rewrite history and flip the script on MJ as if the Jackson’s are responsible for his incredible success and achievements. Let’s face facts; Michael was an abused SLAVE under Joe Jackson’s control and guidance. He was held back by having to carry his brothers and you can see the explosive difference in his performances after he broke away from them. Love and respect the Jackson’s if you must but please don’t ever throw Michael under the bus in order to defend them.

See this is what I mean by fans making up stuff....conjecture. I have not seen Michael being tossed anywhere. Everyone knows that Michael Jackson's immense talent, curiousity, creative spirit, commitment to his craft and personal actions etc. are the reasons we are all here today.

What is not as obvious is that Michael loved his family. What is also easy to forget is that he tried to set the example of being respectful to all people regardless to how the 'other' person is and his example shows us that RESPECTFULNESS is about WHO WE ARE, not who the other person is.

He also said in a lyric that 'respect is not given it is earned' and perhaps it is in that spirit that some fans feel the Jacksons have not "earned" their respect.

That's why I am here to remind you they are the man's FAMILY for real, in actuality, in real life, like it or not.

Even though he didn't associate with them, he loved them in his own very special way, for his own very special reasons. You don't have to love them. You obviously really don't even have to respect them.

But you can love the fact that Michael Jackson loved his family and you can respect that he loved them, you don't have to respect them per se, but you can be respectful because you can at least respect that.

 

[Victory22]

Back on Topic -

There are at least two bits of conjecture that I see in these threads talking about recent incidents, particularly this thread. One is why the family is questioning the will and executors. This is something that goes on in families. The media would like to make it be all about the money that is being earned by the estate and the fact that the questions are raised by people not left in the will. Those are the media headlines and I've noticed fans taking those headlines and running roughshod over the Jackson family. Another bit of presumptioius conjecture I have noticed has to do with Prince's statement that his dad warned him about certain people. That is what was said. Not what people, not about what types of things. Prince remember, was 12 when his dad left us, so gleen from it what we can without adding unto it is all we can do without additional info. Another bit of cojecture was the Jacksons' intentions for getting Kathrine away.

I'm not saying don't speculate or draw your own conclusions or fill in the blanks your self. I'm saying don't forget that what you are doing is speculating, drawing your own conclusions and filling in the blanks your self.


See this is what I mean by fans making up stuff....conjecture. I have not seen Michael being tossed anywhere. Everyone knows that Michael Jackson's immense talent, curiousity, creative spirit, commitment to his craft and personal actions etc. are the reasons we are all here today.

What is not as obvious is that Michael loved his family. What is also easy to forget is that he tried to set the example of being respectful to all people regardless to how the 'other' person is and his example shows us that RESPECTFULNESS is about WHO WE ARE, not who the other person is.

He also said in a lyric that 'respect is not given it is earned' and perhaps it is in that spirit that some fans feel the Jacksons have not "earned" their respect.

That's why I am here to remind you they are the man's FAMILY for real, in actuality, in real life, like it or not.

Even though he didn't associate with them, he loved them in his own very special way, for his own very special reasons. You don't have to love them. You obviously really don't even have to respect them.

But you can love the fact that Michael Jackson loved his family and you can respect that he loved them, you don't have to respect them per se, but you can be respectful because you can at least respect that.

Now who is basing their opinions on conjecture? Michael loved everyone even the families who told horrendous lies on him and practically destroyed his life. That doesn’t mean his fans have to love and or respect them the same way because that will never happen. Your comments are also devoid of knowledge as to whether Michael loved his “REAL” family or what form he love them. There are different kinds of love. There is Eros love which is the sexual kind of love, Agape love which is the Godlike form of love and there is Phileo love which is affection toward a friend or associate. Please don’t try to guilt fans out by presuming you have exclusive knowledge as to how Michael felt toward his family while trying to check the rest of us for stating our opinions on the same subject.

PS, Just because YOU have not seen Michael thrown under the bus by his "family" does not mean "fans are making up stuff" when we call their BS out publically.

 

[SoS]

^ I was responding to your last line which I bolded which I presumed was directed to my post implying I was throwing MJ under a bus rather than the siblings although I guess u didn't mean me and if not good but it was where you had said,

Love and respect the Jackson’s if you must but please don’t ever throw Michael under the bus in order to defend them

OK, on another note, where do they imply that his bank was their bank too? How does anyone know how much money was invested or not and how it was or wasn't? ahahah V22 you got one thing right about me, I sure don't know the Jackson's business. A simple link to all these bold statements some of you make will suffice.

Since I don't know you V22, I prefer to presume that you and those with your point of view, surely would not really be placing Michael Jackson's family members in the same category as "even the families who told horrendous lies on him and practically destroyed his life" as you have put it in your previous post.

If so, I would have to wonder what part of "Michael Jackson's mother, father and siblings stood by him each and every day during the trial of his life against those very liars" don't the people with this point of view get?

How did the Jackson's merit being treated as though they tried to destroy MJ when actually what they did was support him?

Doesn't that alone imply there is more to things than meets the (fans') eye?

Fans keep saying the will is not different even if it was successfully disputed and so my question is do fans really think The Jacksons don't know that?

Does that not automatically tell you there is something else that meets the eye? Does the glass really just have to be half empty instead of half full?

I see very little value being displayed, for the various forms of love listed, realizing that all of the forms of love have their respective value, especially Agape and Phileo which yes, Michael had for most everyone as far as we feel, believe and choose to focus on about him. He was quick to tell how his values were taught to him by his family and which he tried to teach his fans.

Historically the Jackson family began writing songs about the topic of love all of mankind (Phileo/Agape)... together.


Here is one of the first of the great love songs the Jacksons did to show what they all stood for :flowers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=zYjwFe_t5Sw&NR=1

And these last ones just remind us what we're really all here for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcDmTPtjz34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xpmEIlGgk

 

[SoS]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

Not familiar with the taking the dad in BOW on a trip, whatdu mean? :brow:

Here is an interview of MJ talking in detail of how he feels about his family in general.

I don't want fans to get distracted by other things in the video like the past and get off topic but focus on the topic which is Michael's siblings, mother and father and the question asked about Michael's point of view of them and what he had to say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8PbFzAFKdI

As far as I know, it`s rare for a child star to become more successful as an adult.If Joseph were behind it then all siblings would have been successful as adults too.

I wonder who got the idea about taking the father in the video for BOW on a "trip"

Did Michael say anything about his parents and siblings his last years?
I know he mentioned some of them in This is it but I suppose journalists had other questions in interviews than them.

 

[Petrarose]

This is key and thank you so much for saying it. I am sick and tired of Michael’s talent, drive and dedication to his art being minimized and belittled in order to pump up and excuse Joe Jackson and the cubs. Michael sacrificed his personal life and spent countless hours perfecting his talent. He sacrificed rest, personal comfort and his privacy to make himself the greatest entertainer the world has ever known. He accomplished what he did without the help of Joe, Jackie, Jermaine, Tito, Marlon and Randy. I resent more than I can express the entirely lame attempts over the past three years to rewrite history and flip the script on MJ as if the Jackson’s are responsible for his incredible success and achievements. Let’s face facts; Michael was an abused SLAVE under Joe Jackson’s control and guidance. He was held back by having to carry his brothers and you can see the explosive difference in his performances after he broke away from them. Love and respect the Jackson’s if you must but please don’t ever throw Michael under the bus in order to defend them.

Victory this is powerful stuff here, and thank you ^^.

 

[Victory22]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

^ I was responding to your last line which I bolded which I presumed was directed to my post implying I was throwing MJ under a bus rather than the siblings although I guess u didn't mean me and if not good but it was where you had said,


OK, on another note, where do they imply that his bank was their bank too? How does anyone know how much money was invested or not and how it was or wasn't? ahahah V22 you got one thing right about me, I sure don't know the Jackson's business. A simple link to all these bold statements some of you make will suffice.

Since I don't know you V22, I prefer to presume that you and those with your point of view, surely would not really be placing Michael Jackson's family members in the same category as "even the families who told horrendous lies on him and practically destroyed his life" as you have put it in your previous post.

If so, I would have to wonder what part of "Michael Jackson's mother, father and siblings stood by him each and every day during the trial of his life against those very liars" don't the people with this point of view get?

How did the Jackson's merit being treated as though they tried to destroy MJ when actually what they did was support him?

Doesn't that alone imply there is more to things than meets the (fans') eye?

Fans keep saying the will is not different even if it was successfully disputed and so my question is do fans really think The Jacksons don't know that?

Does that not automatically tell you there is something else that meets the eye? Does the glass really just have to be half empty instead of half full?

I see very little value being displayed, for the various forms of love listed, realizing that all of the forms of love have their respective value, especially Agape and Phileo which yes, Michael had for most everyone as far as we feel, believe and choose to focus on about him. He was quick to tell how his values were taught to him by his family and which he tried to teach his fans.

Historically the Jackson family began writing songs about the topic of love all of mankind (Phileo/Agape)... together.


Here is one of the first of the great love songs the Jacksons did to show what they all stood for :flowers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=zYjwFe_t5Sw&NR=1

And these last ones just remind us what we're really all here for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcDmTPtjz34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xpmEIlGgk

Ok so let me get this straight what you are telling me is that LaToya did not call Michael a pedo and Rebbie is not good friends with Stacy Brown who has talked about Michael Jackson as if he was a dog?

 

[StephluvsMJ]

Re: Michael's mom reported missing /TJ temp Guardianship/Grandma's Home

SoS... Michael's siblings denied Michael's three minor children (one as young as 10) contact with their legal guardian and only parental figure for more than 10 days. These kids demanded to speak with their grandmother and were told no. It got to the point where they were so concerned they filed missing persons reports and sent the police out to look for her. This was a cruel joke to play on 3 fatherless kids. I can not be expected to respect them for this.

I can respect them as a group of entertainers who did very well in the industry as children. I can respect them for their accomplishments and awards. I can't respect them as human beings, because you'd have to be pretty low to do that to children. And orphaned children at that.