MJ Estate Made $310 MILLION Since Michael Died

elusive moonwalker

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nd please excuse my miserable understanding and memory, but why was Michael in so much debt? 400 millions?? :bugeyed Not paying taxes? your taxes?? for so many years?
mj was apart of a billion $ empire. buying up music publishing cats investing etc. its how u make money. we dont know what the debts over ie investments or what but its not uncommon when u are worth over 1.5 bill.
 

Autumn II

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mj was apart of a billion $ empire. buying up music publishing cats investing etc. its how u make money. we dont know what the debts over ie investments or what but its not uncommon when u are worth over 1.5 bill.

First, I'll say that for his management not to file his taxes for three YEARS is inexcusable. I hope the estate holds both Bain and Tohme accountable for at least the tax penalties. Both were in roles of his financial management, and clearly there were failures there. It was far too complex for Michael to even begin to do, himself. Probably too complex for Bain and Tohme either, but that's what tax attorneys are for, and management should have hired someone to prepare the taxes. One simply cannot avoid filing taxes, without getting into a whole lot of trouble eventually!

As far as his having financial problems, a lot of that has to do with what is "liquid," and what is not. I.e. what he had available to pay living expenses, staff, travel, and all of that. I'm sure some assets were tied up in music publishing and could not easily be divested (nor did he WANT to sell ATV!); some may have been in real-estate, bonds, and so on. That stuff would take time and effort for someone to take apart so he could use the cash for expenses and that would run down his capital. I'm sure interest on various loans was quite high, as well. It's entirely possible for a multimillionaire to go bankrupt. Didn't Donald Trump do that, more than once? If that had happened, Michael, himself, was a huge "asset," and recovery from financial problems would have depended on his ability to put out new products -- albums, videos, movies, tours, and other ventures.
 

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Ok, but sounds to me very much like the words of KF about MJ fearing he would end up working at McDonald's. He was not poor at all and if fact he was faaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrr away from poverty. And anyway, if you fear you are not making enough money, you can always choose stop expending money as it was growing like a forest. I can understand investing on your kids, their education, clothes, food, house... but c'mon! Michael had all that and much more.

Was he really that scared? And if so... why? He could have sell any of his properties, or just doing a couple of shows, an interview, an unplugged, I don't know, the man was a genious and as some other friend said in other thread, we would have paid just to see him walk around.

So why would he be so scared to work so hard to get so much money?

And please excuse my miserable understanding and memory, but why was Michael in so much debt? 400 millions?? :bugeyed Not paying taxes? your taxes?? for so many years?

How didn't he know about that? Can you really lose so much control of your own stuff and deals?

I don't understand it :scratch: I feel there is a missing piece in all this talk about MJ being in debt, earning so much, having nothing, having all. I just don't understand it :mello:
I remember when Michael first announced the shows...we were all so excited about it..but then saw the price the seats were going for....and it was like....WHO CARES how much they cost..I would pay to see Michael even if he just stood in one spot on that stage and said absolutely nothing. ...He was so beautiful to just look at...:wub: It would of cost me a couple of thousand dollars to get from here in the US to London....hell I never even flew before...BUT I was gonna do it for Michael.....EVEN IF he would of just stood there...:(
 

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People underestimated Michael's business sense. If they looked properly they'd see absolutly outstanding business decisions. Michael made sure his kids would be alright by life that's for sure.
 

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I remember when Michael first announced the shows...we were all so excited about it..but then saw the price the seats were going for....and it was like....WHO CARES how much they cost..I would pay to see Michael even if he just stood in one spot on that stage and said absolutely nothing. ...He was so beautiful to just look at...:wub: It would of cost me a couple of thousand dollars to get from here in the US to London....hell I never even flew before...BUT I was gonna do it for Michael.....EVEN IF he would of just stood there...:(

and this is something I can totally relate too. I admit the first time I heard about TII I was furious, though. Yes. I was firious when I heard he would be doing his last courtain call there, in London, so far away from so many of us. And just 10 shows... why 10? why so far away? why this way if I have been waiting for you all these years asking for nothing from you, only waiting?

Ok, I was really thinking about me, myself and I... sorry :( and there was no way for me to make it to London for those 10. Then there were 50 and it would be some in February, I could do something and even when I didn't got a ticket, I was 10000% sure I could manage to get one. ANd if not, I was ready to stay right outside the O2 just listening to the music.... I was saving money, I had checked the hotel, I was one just about the book the flight and make that huge investment...

and then...

Michael was so important in our lives. All the money in the world could never replace him. NEVER.

All that said, I would expect those "in charge" of his money to pay.
 

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and this is something I can totally relate too. I admit the first time I heard about TII I was furious, though. Yes. I was firious when I heard he would be doing his last courtain call there, in London, so far away from so many of us. And just 10 shows... why 10? why so far away? why this way if I have been waiting for you all these years asking for nothing from you, only waiting?

Ok, I was really thinking about me, myself and I... sorry :( and there was no way for me to make it to London for those 10. Then there were 50 and it would be some in February, I could do something and even when I didn't got a ticket, I was 10000% sure I could manage to get one. ANd if not, I was ready to stay right outside the O2 just listening to the music.... I was saving money, I had checked the hotel, I was one just about the book the flight and make that huge investment...

and then...

Michael was so important in our lives. All the money in the world could never replace him. NEVER.

All that said, I would expect those "in charge" of his money to pay.
:hug:....I know....:(...
 

elusive moonwalker

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First, I'll say that for his management not to file his taxes for three YEARS is inexcusable. I hope the estate holds both Bain and Tohme accountable for at least the tax penalties. Both were in roles of his financial management, and clearly there were failures there. It was far too complex for Michael to even begin to do, himself. Probably too complex for Bain and Tohme either, but that's what tax attorneys are for, and management should have hired someone to prepare the taxes. One simply cannot avoid filing taxes, without getting into a whole lot of trouble eventually!

As far as his having financial problems, a lot of that has to do with what is "liquid," and what is not. I.e. what he had available to pay living expenses, staff, travel, and all of that. I'm sure some assets were tied up in music publishing and could not easily be divested (nor did he WANT to sell ATV!); some may have been in real-estate, bonds, and so on. That stuff would take time and effort for someone to take apart so he could use the cash for expenses and that would run down his capital. I'm sure interest on various loans was quite high, as well. It's entirely possible for a multimillionaire to go bankrupt. Didn't Donald Trump do that, more than once? If that had happened, Michael, himself, was a huge "asset," and recovery from financial problems would have depended on his ability to put out new products -- albums, videos, movies, tours, and other ventures.

yeah totally agree. mjs problem was his cash flow rather than his assets.he had to work around not wanting to liquidate any of those asserts ie sony.atv
 

elusive moonwalker

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btw i HATE the title of this thread. so hard reading those words
 

PCR

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yeah totally agree. mjs problem was his cash flow rather than his assets.he had to work around not wanting to liquidate any of those asserts ie sony.atv

Yes, I agree with this too.
THis is what really makes sense.
That's why I really don't understand those claims of MJ feeling the had no way out but to work almost like a slave for those shows. Of course he had a number of assets he could have liquidated and he could have also find ways to generate cash and to spend less money.

Man, I just don't get it. What went wrong? why he was under so much presure? ok... the world wanted him to fail, I know, but still..... aggggggg... i'll never understand this :no:
 

elusive moonwalker

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i dont think he was under so much pressure. he turned AEG down for the previous couple of years .he had refinanced and the loans were being paid off and he had got a huge cash lump sum ontop of that. the problem was the $ signs that AEG saw imo
 

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It would have been his accountants responsibilty though wouldnt it, not his manager.

No. Both Bain and Tohme were serving in several capacities, that seemed pretty all inclusive. Both were president of MJJProductions. So YES, it was their responsibility. That responsibility was to make sure competent accountants were hired, and that they had the documentation that they needed to file the taxes. Michael turned over the business side of things to them, and that was surely part of it. Plus, he typically gave over Power of Attorney, so they would have been able to sign contacts/documents, depending on what, if any, limitations were placed on that Power of Attorney. (that is not that unusual for complex financial situations.)
 

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... Yeah, the title is more than depressing.. I took a few-second pause and felt drawn down in a gray, suffocating space. 'Since Michael died'?... Died. Hit me again like a ton of rocks. ...Too much.

*runs*
 

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It seems like it wasn´t the money that was most important for Michael when he decided to do the shows.
It was the environment, to show his kids what daddy really could do, to see fans again, maybe promoting the two albums he was working on but I suppose the promotion would be in the second leg or in the world tour.

But he was going to make huge money as he wrote it
He knew what he wrote about.

I think if Branca had taken care of Michaels business the last years the debt wouldn´t be that big.
 

Autumn II

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People underestimated Michael's business sense. If they looked properly they'd see absolutly outstanding business decisions. Michael made sure his kids would be alright by life that's for sure.

Michael had incredible business sense, but primarily in the creative aspect of marketing, i.e. what do people WANT to hear and see. There was a time when he used to sign all checks over fifty dollars, but those days were long gone. The corporation that was Michael Jackson was just too complex for him to oversee everything, or he'd have been doing nothing else.

The problem was not in the "business sense," but in trusting people who were, in the end, not trustworthy. The problems began with the trial, when Randy Jackson had control of Michael's finances. Since then, there was a series of shady characters, as in, when the staff at Neverland weren't paid and the animals were not cared for properly. Where WAS that money going? It seems not to have gotten much better since then.

But in terms of Michael's children? They will never have any financial worries, for sure.
 

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MJ told one of the African American leadres that he is worried that he may come back from this tour with no money cuz he is a father of 3 kids to feed !

can anyone please help me to find the article !

I don't know about a Black religious leader, but I do remember when Leonard Rowe was on Larry King, he said MJ told him he didn't want to come back fromt his tour without any money since he had to feed his children.
 

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I don't know about a Black religious leader, but I do remember when Leonard Rowe was on Larry King, he said MJ told him he didn't want to come back fromt his tour without any money since he had to feed his children.

probably !

i do not remember who he was exactly ,but this statment came to my mind when a memeber here suggested that MJ may had to spend all his money from this tour to cover the production expenses and his living expenses, and thus can't keep anything to pay his debts ! which might be the main reason why he wanted to tour if we put aside the other reasons like his children ,his fans and his career !
 

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It was Michael who made the production so expensive.He could easily have done another show much less expensive if he wanted, but still first class.
 

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at the time of TTI I believed court document show that the sony's 60 M$ was used to pay the cost production first
 

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I can't even begin to imagine the pressure that Michael was under in regards to the tour. It makes me feel guilty when I think about it as when Michael announced it, yes I admit, at the time my excitement overtook me and it was all I could bang on about until Michael passed. Did I even stop to think about the pressure that Michael was under, no, and it makes me feel awful.
 

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probably !

i do not remember who he was exactly ,but this statment came to my mind when a memeber here suggested that MJ may had to spend all his money from this tour to cover the production expenses and his living expenses, and thus can't keep anything to pay his debts ! which might be the main reason why he wanted to tour if we put aside the other reasons like his children ,his fans and his career !


Louis Farrakhan?..

I vaguely remember the above, but do for sure recall that Farrakhan said Michael's people got in contact with him to tell him Michael needed his help or his guidance in light of the approaching tour... Can't look out for this bit right now, but that's what I do remember for sure. ..
 

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Ok, but sounds to me very much like the words of KF about MJ fearing he would end up working at McDonald's. He was not poor at all and if fact he was faaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrr away from poverty. And anyway, if you fear you are not making enough money, you can always choose stop expending money as it was growing like a forest. I can understand investing on your kids, their education, clothes, food, house... but c'mon! Michael had all that and much more.

Was he really that scared? And if so... why? He could have sell any of his properties, or just doing a couple of shows, an interview, an unplugged, I don't know, the man was a genious and as some other friend said in other thread, we would have paid just to see him walk around.

So why would he be so scared to work so hard to get so much money?

And please excuse my miserable understanding and memory, but why was Michael in so much debt? 400 millions?? :bugeyed Not paying taxes? your taxes?? for so many years?

How didn't he know about that? Can you really lose so much control of your own stuff and deals?

I don't understand it :scratch: I feel there is a missing piece in all this talk about MJ being in debt, earning so much, having nothing, having all. I just don't understand it :mello:

Mike confide to his spiritual advisor June Gatlin, that he didn't know how much money he had in his account (Tohme divided him from his accountant & lawyers), that he was cut off from that part...It is in YT...No doubt Tohme did a lot of financial damage to Mike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMmPeb_jWaI&feature=related
 

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I can't even begin to imagine the pressure that Michael was under in regards to the tour. It makes me feel guilty when I think about it as when Michael announced it, yes I admit, at the time my excitement overtook me and it was all I could bang on about until Michael passed. Did I even stop to think about the pressure that Michael was under, no, and it makes me feel awful.


*hugs*.. You're a good person for considering this, but the excitement is part of being a normal human being. The hype was big.. It's the behavior of those who doubted he'll be able to do 50 shows that was disturbing, as it forebode evil, in a way, and the behavior of those complaining and threatening to quit their fandom and create petitions when Michael postponed two shows. .. And of those that wanted him to perform the way they want him to, wherever they want him to, and of those that called him lazy and a has-been that's doing nothing but go to Klein's offices and all that was awful ....

At that time, although panicky at times with the whole 50 shows issue, I, for one, almost erased it from my mind; really strange and ugly feeling, like I wanted to feel indifferent about them or sth. The strangest was that some couldn't tell whether Michael was well, happy and all, or not quiet about all this. There was that frantic outburst of lawsuits and a really tight atmosphere going on, the firing of all those managers, companies fighting for Jackson, suing him, suing themselves, everyone wanting a piece of him, the tabloids were wild, too, and when Ortega, for instance, and Karen Faye or someone else would be posting stuff on their Twitter, like "Oh, he is so happy", "Oh, he was amazing", 'can't wait to go to London'... don't know, let's just say a lot of conflicting thoughts and emotions got out.. That's making one say, "Oh, if they're saying that, then yay, bring it on'. ...

Gosh, when he made the press conference, I was a wreck, just broke down crying... I won't really get into this, will just say that Michael was very nervous to me and some others, when he made the announcement and seemed even pissed off in a way that he had to be there, esp when he got out of the car, Thome being behind him. .. I recall one member from here, also, who felt that uneasy and had a really strange reaction about the conference, that that was her last post here... at least so far. ... Won't ever forget that horrid day. Things looked brighter a bit the next day when he was to see 'Oliver', even though Thome Thome, one of the shadiest people ever (that seems to have evaporated since June 25) was all up on his back like a hound dog... I don't know, though Michael wanted in his heart to return to the stage and was strong up until his very last breath for his children esp, - for that's who he was, one can't deny the s***** contexts he was finding himself in, snakes left and right, being pressured by all sides... and one ultimately cutting his life full of plans and.. youth even, short. .... It's like, all those strange events and contexts led to that horrid June 25 day that didn't have to happen.......
 

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... so, Does Katherine have her will?
To whom is she going to leave her 40% share of MJs estate´s money?

Michael´s kids, or her kids=Jermaine, Rebbie, Jackie, LaToya...????

Who will inherit "her" money?
 

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Moonwalker.Fan;3255889 said:
... so, Does Katherine have her will?
To whom is she going to leave her 40% share of MJs estate´s money?

Michael´s kids, or her kids=Jermaine, Rebbie, Jackie, LaToya...????

Who will inherit "her" money?

I believe it's "her money" only for her lifetime, in terms of support, and then it's passed down to Michael's children. No other family members are mentioned in Michael's will, and what happens to the money upon her death is already specified, or at least that's my understanding.

In other words, the rest of the family gets NOTHING. If Katherine has any of her own money that's not part of Michael's estate, she can bequeath that to whoever she wants.
 

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A few things stand out, that I'm wondering about. The production costs of forty million? As an advance that Michael would have had to pay back? I'm wondering how this compares to other tours, where he had a sponsor, or sponsors? (i.e. Pepsi?), who negotiated for part of the profits of the tours, but also got advertising out of it (Michael's Pepsi ads?) So in the past who paid for "production costs?" Michael, or was that expense shared with the sponsor, or what? (and I'm sure whatever arrangements were made in the past, and for TII, were incredibly complex!)

This also caught my attention. Was this the first time Mike had to pay for the production cost himself? $40million? Do artists normally do this? I always thought the promoter also paid some amount for the production cost and having sponsors would have also helped.
 

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The thing with Michael was bigger the better with production of his concerts and he wanted to please us fans. When he did the press conference I got worried bout him as somethin was telling me there was something was wrong with Michael and even though I was excited bout the concerts, I felt bad for feeling happy.
 

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Mike confide to his spiritual advisor June Gatlin, that he didn't know how much money he had in his account (Tohme divided him from his accountant & lawyers), that he was cut off from that part...It is in YT...No doubt Tohme did a lot of financial damage to Mike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMmPeb_jWaI&feature=related

Yes, I have heard her saying that, but that doesn't explain how and why he ever allowed that to happen. Thome Thome and Klein are found in the darkness over and over again, and still I can't understand why. If MJ knew for so long that TT was that bad and getting him away from his own money and stuff... why on earth did he allow that happening?

that's what I don't understand! He was smart and brilliant. So... why????
 
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