MJ Estate Made $310 MILLION Since Michael Died

noirnoar

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Yes, I have heard her saying that, but that doesn't explain how and why he ever allowed that to happen. Thome Thome and Klein are found in the darkness over and over again, and still I can't understand why. If MJ knew for so long that TT was that bad and getting him away from his own money and stuff... why on earth did he allow that happening?

that's what I don't understand! He was smart and brilliant. So... why????

My understanding is: when Thome stopped foreclosure to Neverland estate, he gained Michael's trust that he is going to take care of Michael's finance. After the trial, Michael was in verge of emotional/psychological stress. Probably Thome did something, that he ensured Michael that he is the best person to take of his finance. There were cases when MJJ and his "entourage" were thrown out of hotels because the credit cards were canceled (I bet it was Thome behind this). I don't know why Michael waited so long to fire Thome. Was he afraid of him? Did he threatened Mike, and that is the reason he took the gig with AGE? I don't know. Thome to me looks like a f***g bully...
 

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My understanding is: when Thome stopped foreclosure to Neverland estate, he gained Michael's trust that he is going to take care of Michael's finance. After the trial, Michael was in verge of emotional/psychological stress. Probably Thome did something, that he ensured Michael that he is the best person to take of his finance. There were cases when MJJ and his "entourage" were thrown out of hotels because the credit cards were canceled (I bet it was Thome behind this). I don't know why Michael waited so long to fire Thome. Was he afraid of him? Did he threatened Mike, and that is the reason he took the gig with AGE? I don't know. Thome to me looks like a f***g bully...
My thoughts exactly...Tohme..is not a nice guy....his eyes look very mean..dont you remember Michael saying how affraid he was of tohme??....he sure was.


 
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ivy

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Horrifying is, that "Michael hadn't filed taxes for 2006, 2007, 2008!" My GOD! Who was minding the store? Filing taxes is fundamental for financial management!

Out of all of this, what is truly appalling is non-payment of taxes for three YEARS! So many entertainers get into trouble with taxes, but I thought Michael had escaped that, at least in past years? But that is totally outrageous, that his financial management didn't even FILE taxes!

yeah i agree, this was always something that worried me. when u look at wes snipes. it kinda scared me that they could try something like that with mj after failing with 03-05. when were those accountants brought in by randy working for him b4 mj sacked and sued them? was it through those years ontop of thome who came in later.


Well, the article said 2006, 2007, and 2008. Even if a person can't pay right away, extensions can be filed. But, the article says that taxes weren't even FILED!

Plus, those unpaid taxes would have increased as time passed, in IRS penalties! It seems to me that the estate would have grounds to sue whoever Michael's management was for those three years (and for at least one of those years, it was Tohme), for gross negligence, or something?

Autumn is right not even taxes filed , no request for extension etc. Nobody was looking to Michael's accounting. And they also didn't pay any "company taxes". so even though managers forgot Michael's personal taxes I cannot think how they could forget company taxes.

And Michael could have been like those other celebrities with tax problems. We saw this in the last report that was publicly available. IRS actually sent Michael a notice in 2009 about not payment of the 2006 taxes (they billed $2000 cost for it). In other words IRS was a few years slow but they had catched up on Michael not paying taxes and they were starting the process against him with a reminder.

Also don't understand "restructuring the agreement with AEG?" Isn't a contract a contract? Or can the terms of the contract be restructured after the signee is deceased, or what? Is any further info given on that? (probably not)

contracts can be renegotiated if both parties agree. and death of a party would account for extraordinary event.

And please excuse my miserable understanding and memory, but why was Michael in so much debt? 400 millions?? :bugeyed Not paying taxes? your taxes?? for so many years?


much of it was acquisition debt. In other words Michael was buying valuable business ventures , catalogs etc , he was using his existing assets for collateral and getting loans to pay for the things he bought. When you do it multiples of times your debt, your interest etc gets higher.
 

xthunderx2

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Horrifying is, that "Michael hadn't filed taxes for 2006, 2007, 2008!" My GOD! Who was minding the store? Filing taxes is fundamental for financial management!








Autumn is right not even taxes filed , no request for extension etc. Nobody was looking to Michael's accounting. And they also didn't pay any "company taxes". so even though managers forgot Michael's personal taxes I cannot think how they could forget company taxes.

And Michael could have been like those other celebrities with tax problems. We saw this in the last report that was publicly available. IRS actually sent Michael a notice in 2009 about not payment of the 2006 taxes (they billed $2000 cost for it). In other words IRS was a few years slow but they had catched up on Michael not paying taxes and they were starting the process against him with a reminder.



contracts can be renegotiated if both parties agree. and death of a party would account for extraordinary event.




much of it was acquisition debt. In other words Michael was buying valuable business ventures , catalogs etc , he was using his existing assets for collateral and getting loans to pay for the things he bought. When you do it multiples of times your debt, your interest etc gets higher.


IVY....In the post above I posted a video of Michael talking about how Tohme would not even let him talk to his own accountants ...and he didnt even have access to his own accounts at that point....cant Tohme be held responsible for that time period?
 

mjsdot

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*hugs*.. You're a good person for considering this, but the excitement is part of being a normal human being. The hype was big.. It's the behavior of those who doubted he'll be able to do 50 shows that was disturbing, as it forebode evil, in a way, and the behavior of those complaining and threatening to quit their fandom and create petitions when Michael postponed two shows. .. And of those that wanted him to perform the way they want him to, wherever they want him to, and of those that called him lazy and a has-been that's doing nothing but go to Klein's offices and all that was awful ....

At that time, although panicky at times with the whole 50 shows issue, I, for one, almost erased it from my mind; really strange and ugly feeling, like I wanted to feel indifferent about them or sth. The strangest was that some couldn't tell whether Michael was well, happy and all, or not quiet about all this. There was that frantic outburst of lawsuits and a really tight atmosphere going on, the firing of all those managers, companies fighting for Jackson, suing him, suing themselves, everyone wanting a piece of him, the tabloids were wild, too, and when Ortega, for instance, and Karen Faye or someone else would be posting stuff on their Twitter, like "Oh, he is so happy", "Oh, he was amazing", 'can't wait to go to London'... don't know, let's just say a lot of conflicting thoughts and emotions got out.. That's making one say, "Oh, if they're saying that, then yay, bring it on'. ...

Gosh, when he made the press conference, I was a wreck, just broke down crying... I won't really get into this, will just say that Michael was very nervous to me and some others, when he made the announcement and seemed even pissed off in a way that he had to be there, esp when he got out of the car, Thome being behind him. .. I recall one member from here, also, who felt that uneasy and had a really strange reaction about the conference, that that was her last post here... at least so far. ... Won't ever forget that horrid day. Things looked brighter a bit the next day when he was to see 'Oliver', even though Thome Thome, one of the shadiest people ever (that seems to have evaporated since June 25) was all up on his back like a hound dog... I don't know, though Michael wanted in his heart to return to the stage and was strong up until his very last breath for his children esp, - for that's who he was, one can't deny the s***** contexts he was finding himself in, snakes left and right, being pressured by all sides... and one ultimately cutting his life full of plans and.. youth even, short. .... It's like, all those strange events and contexts led to that horrid June 25 day that didn't have to happen.......

Bolded part did 'fans' really do that? thats awful:no:

Thome always seemed dodgy hate that photo of him physically handling Michael. Makes me feel sick
 

PCR

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My understanding is: when Thome stopped foreclosure to Neverland estate, he gained Michael's trust that he is going to take care of Michael's finance. After the trial, Michael was in verge of emotional/psychological stress. Probably Thome did something, that he ensured Michael that he is the best person to take of his finance. There were cases when MJJ and his "entourage" were thrown out of hotels because the credit cards were canceled (I bet it was Thome behind this). I don't know why Michael waited so long to fire Thome. Was he afraid of him? Did he threatened Mike, and that is the reason he took the gig with AGE? I don't know. Thome to me looks like a f***g bully...

I can only think of Michael being scared of this character, but as far as we know, he finally fired him a few days/weeks before June 25th, and then Branca and Co. returned. Anyway, evil TT was at the hospital on the 25th. He opened the press conference right before Jermain said what the had to say. TT, Jermain and his wife were there, and isn't TT related to Jermain's current wife? her uncle or something? :doh:

But anyway, I will never undersand and I guess we will never know how this evil man managed to do this to Michael. I understand Michael was very weak after the stupid trial, but that is not reason for his managers not to pay MJ's taxes and so on. That is ilegal and Michael Jackson, holding the values he holds, wouldn't have wanted to do something ilegal.

All this said.... you can still have a look at your bank account. You can still take the phone and make some calls. I am sorry to say this, but it's difficult for me to understand how this TT managed to isolate Michael from his own company/money.

:mello:
 

Alma

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Thome Thome, besides doing that one interview with the press shortly after Michael was gone - in which he said he (Thome) was a nobody..., and that he tried to build a fence around Michael..., and besides that fake alarm that was 'set' with the Larry King interview that never happened (for fake reasons like Thome having some tooth problem or sth like that), he's nowhere to be mentioned, found (?), just no word about him. To me, he's the shadiest out of this whole This Is It madness. The second in line to blame after Murray. God knows what this person really did and what orders he gave, for he obstinately refused to leave his job as Michael's general manager, he was doing business with AEG and setting dates for him, that, according to Dileo (another more than sahdy character as well), were too many a week, Jackson not wanting that. The mafiotic ways in which he filed that lawsuit against Juliens Auctions after Jackson caught on what Thome was really up to (meaning, selling All of Jackson's Neverland items, including the gates and outsides statues, for they're to bring a lot of/more money), the Auctions then stating that Jackson's team, threatened there will be 'bloodshed' if they don't put a stop to the auction - and throwing Jackson undeservingly one more time under the bus with his reputation. Plus much more... He knows why he's that quiet, he knows what he did. Funny (?) how he was present beside Jermaine at the press conference announcing his death. ... It makes one ill inside...

And I agree, Noirnoar... They were messing with his money accounts, his 'advisors', managers, esp since Thome had POA that allowed him to 'handle' Jackson business and personal affairs at will... I too think he was afraid of him, but the Neverland auction mess was the last straw. Can also remember him alongside Thome in that Beverly Hills park after a business meeting, Michael looked like he was carrying a big load on his shoulder, and I remember Thome's mean, uncompassionate eyes looking at Michael.. Can't shake that image off either. ...
 

Alma

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Bolded part did 'fans' really do that? thats awful:no:


Was lurking around that time on 2 forums only, when a new Michaelmania started to take over. Lots of madness, too. Lots of madness with some, it was getting out of control, it was like seeing death blackening the eye-sight. Imagine what that one person must have felt, how the pressures on his shoulders, on his heart started to weigh in, not to mention the media who were having a field day with this hostile situation, and with the increasing lawsuits thrown at Jackson, the increasing off the chains battles between his managers, former managers, between music companies and other music companies, big and small, the Twitter mania was a the beginning of its time, and some were reporting his every step, wherever he was and some saw him (excluding the paparazzis), a tweet would come up. The Klein visits were scrutinized and dissected like crazy, then the fake skin-cancer rumor appeared, then Ian Halperin's ish again - and this was a person that actually accurately 'predicted' Jackson's death 5 or 6 months before it happened. ... Plus pressures of some to have Jackson perform in their country, pressures on behalf of his own family to tour with them....the Bain excessively greedy lawsuit... Endless of terrifying obstacles that really almost looked like a conspiracy to tear down Jackson for good somehow, then Murray did it for real and closed the chapter. To top that, Michael had to be a father, was working on various projects, on This Is It... really, everyone wanting a piece of him. This seems worst than a horror movie, doesn't seem real, it's also a truncated view for most of those who were not even there to witness all the inner workings and all the inner struggles Michael had, and even from analysing this from a distance, and you still feel like going crazy.
 

Moonwalker.Fan

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some pll here should stop creating conspiracy and "behind the scenes" theories.

NOBOBY knows what really happened (good or bad), we can just see the outside surface without facts, we can just assume something and have to be rational and objective, and not glorify or malign anybody... just because we "think of something".

We really dont know anything relevant, only from media reports or court docs.

PTImbz*1MDljNGU4MmZiNDE*NDg5ODdhMjJiMDBkYjJiNzlkNSZvZj*w.gif
 
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Courtney

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Wow. That's a lot of money. So when the kids are 18, this money is theirs, correct?

The executors also claim they have "successfully rebuilt and enhanced Michael Jackson's image" since they've been empowered to run the estate.

I don't quite understand what they mean by this but I doubt that's a true statement...
 

mjsdot

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Wow. That's a lot of money. So when the kids are 18, this money is theirs, correct?



No the leaked trust says they get someincome when 18 but the principal is given in stages final payment at age 40! Very sensible if true
 

MJStorm

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some pll here should stop creating conspiracy and "behind the scenes" theories.

NOBOBY knows what really happened (good or bad), we can just see the outside surface without facts, we can just assume something and have to be rational and objective, and not glorify or malign anybody... just because we "think of something".

We really dont know anything relevant, only from media reports or court docs.

PTImbz*1MDljNGU4MmZiNDE*NDg5ODdhMjJiMDBkYjJiNzlkNSZvZj*w.gif

Nobody here are accusing the "Estate" or creating "conspiracy" and "behind the scenes" theories. It is our duty to monitor what is being done with MJ's legacy.
 

PCR

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some pll here should stop creating conspiracy and "behind the scenes" theories.

NOBOBY knows what really happened (good or bad), we can just see the outside surface without facts, we can just assume something and have to be rational and objective, and not glorify or malign anybody... just because we "think of something".

We really dont know anything relevant, only from media reports or court docs.


PTImbz*1MDljNGU4MmZiNDE*NDg5ODdhMjJiMDBkYjJiNzlkNSZvZj*w.gif
 

Autumn II

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Nobody here are accusing the "Estate" or creating "conspiracy" and "behind the scenes" theories. It is our duty to monitor what is being done with MJ's legacy.

Thank you. This has not been about any possible "conspiracy," but FACT. And a FACT is, that nobody paid, or even filed, Michael's taxes for at least three years, and that is highly unusual. Another FACT is that during that time period, there were two managers/business managers who should have been responsible for taking care of that most basic aspect of business -- the filing of taxes. Those two individuals were Raymone Bain, and Tohme Tohme.

WHY this happened, we don't know for sure. THAT it happened, (or didn't happen. . the filing of taxes) is FACT.

We also have some public statements by Tohme, which are also FACTS. That he "built a fence around Michael," for one example. He really did say that. And that he asserted he was still "Michael's manager," when he was NOT. We also have a taped phone call of Michael's, expressing that he'd lost control of his own finances -- to Tohme, and was afraid of him. Was that phone call REAL, or edited, or what? Not sure, but it does sound real.

All these are facts, and not any sort of invented "conspiracy." In that sense, it's worthy of discussion, re: the topic of this thread.
 

PCR

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Thank you. This has not been about any possible "conspiracy," but FACT. And a FACT is, that nobody paid, or even filed, Michael's taxes for at least three years, and that is highly unusual. Another FACT is that during that time period, there were two managers/business managers who should have been responsible for taking care of that most basic aspect of business -- the filing of taxes. Those two individuals were Raymone Bain, and Tohme Tohme.

WHY this happened, we don't know for sure. THAT it happened, (or didn't happen. . the filing of taxes) is FACT.

We also have some public statements by Tohme, which are also FACTS. That he "built a fence around Michael," for one example. He really did say that. And that he asserted he was still "Michael's manager," when he was NOT. We also have a taped phone call of Michael's, expressing that he'd lost control of his own finances -- to Tohme, and was afraid of him. Was that phone call REAL, or edited, or what? Not sure, but it does sound real.

All these are facts, and not any sort of invented "conspiracy." In that sense, it's worthy of discussion, re: the topic of this thread.


Yes, I agree on every word.
I guess it is time we accept things can be discussed openly in the forum. Why not? Because someone decided there was not conspiracy? because someone decided there was no reason to read between the lines? I accept some fellow fans might go simply too far with conspiracy talking, but here are not going for conspiracy. We are discussing facts. And if those facs look like just casual, then all laws of statistics should be changed. These people WERE ACTUALLY working for Michael and doing their worst against him. It's clear from these accounts. So... what's wrong about saying that?

:mello:
 

Ashtanga

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I can't even begin to imagine the pressure that Michael was under in regards to the tour. It makes me feel guilty when I think about it as when Michael announced it, yes I admit, at the time my excitement overtook me and it was all I could bang on about until Michael passed. Did I even stop to think about the pressure that Michael was under, no, and it makes me feel awful.

I feel that way too. :cry: *big sigh*
 

kasume

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Yes, I think they pressured him, probably begged him to do these shows.

Because his sights was initially set on charity concerts for Africa, and in Africa, before he gave in and agreed to do TII.

The charity concerts he talked about doing in Africa was sort of going to be the stamp for his humanitarian work that the world knew nothing about.

And then the guys came a second time and convinced him to do TII....
 
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Spider-Man

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Reuters reported that the court docs were made public, does anyone have the actual docs or know how to get them?
 

mjsdot

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Reuters reported that the court docs were made public, does anyone have the actual docs or know how to get them?

I'd like to know that too, been looking online and cant find them. So if anyone finds the docs can you please post a link.
Thanks
 

Daryll748

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I can't even begin to imagine the pressure that Michael was under in regards to the tour. It makes me feel guilty when I think about it as when Michael announced it, yes I admit, at the time my excitement overtook me and it was all I could bang on about until Michael passed. Did I even stop to think about the pressure that Michael was under, no, and it makes me feel awful.

yep :no: I didn't listen too... Almost a year before Michael went to 'heaven' .. He 'pumped' me full of nightmares, stories, premonitions and what did I do???
I took a free day from work to order the tickets online...payed for them and when the nightmares got sooo worse they :wild: me out... I just cancelled the tickets and got all my $$$ back ... :doh:
Stupid really, I sooo wished I could have 'rescued' Michael from this 'evil' grip he was in... :no: This will 'haunt' me till I see him again... :(
 

twinklEE

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Thank you. This has not been about any possible "conspiracy," but FACT. And a FACT is, that nobody paid, or even filed, Michael's taxes for at least three years, and that is highly unusual. Another FACT is that during that time period, there were two managers/business managers who should have been responsible for taking care of that most basic aspect of business -- the filing of taxes. Those two individuals were Raymone Bain, and Tohme Tohme.

WHY this happened, we don't know for sure. THAT it happened, (or didn't happen. . the filing of taxes) is FACT.

We also have some public statements by Tohme, which are also FACTS. That he "built a fence around Michael," for one example. He really did say that. And that he asserted he was still "Michael's manager," when he was NOT. We also have a taped phone call of Michael's, expressing that he'd lost control of his own finances -- to Tohme, and was afraid of him. Was that phone call REAL, or edited, or what? Not sure, but it does sound real.

All these are facts, and not any sort of invented "conspiracy." In that sense, it's worthy of discussion, re: the topic of this thread.
Wasn't Randall around in 2006 as well?
 

virginia_woolf

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Are these the same records that the estate wanted sealed? (The report from last fall?)

I think it's the same document from last year. The details were redacted when tmz posted it in September but they are mentioning unpaid taxes, a loan for K. Jackson etc.


PDF
 

ivy

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I think it's the same document from last year. The details were redacted when tmz posted it in September but they are mentioning unpaid taxes, a loan for K. Jackson etc.


PDF

I think it's a newer one because Reuters said it showed accounting till December 31, 2010. It looks like a year end accounting done by the estate.
 

Annie123

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I think it's a newer one because Reuters said it showed accounting till December 31, 2010. It looks like a year end accounting done by the estate.

Yes I think so too. If you look on the LA Court site there has been an "account current" submitted this month and it will go before the judge in May.
 

riviera1992

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Yes, and if they had bothered to do their jobs and file Income tax reports, it would've been discovered how much money was lost via unusually high interest rates and various financing fees by Fortress and other suspicious dealings.

Thank you. This has not been about any possible "conspiracy," but FACT. And a FACT is, that nobody paid, or even filed, Michael's taxes for at least three years, and that is highly unusual. Another FACT is that during that time period, there were two managers/business managers who should have been responsible for taking care of that most basic aspect of business -- the filing of taxes. Those two individuals were Raymone Bain, and Tohme Tohme.

WHY this happened, we don't know for sure. THAT it happened, (or didn't happen. . the filing of taxes) is FACT.

We also have some public statements by Tohme, which are also FACTS. That he "built a fence around Michael," for one example. He really did say that. And that he asserted he was still "Michael's manager," when he was NOT. We also have a taped phone call of Michael's, expressing that he'd lost control of his own finances -- to Tohme, and was afraid of him. Was that phone call REAL, or edited, or what? Not sure, but it does sound real.

All these are facts, and not any sort of invented "conspiracy." In that sense, it's worthy of discussion, re: the topic of this thread.
 
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