Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

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barok232

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Re: Monster - The Great Debate

I respect your opinion, but MJ vocals on Off the Wall, Triumph, Thriller, Jacksons when he was a teenager, is much better on dance tracks than when he was older.

Young Mike could sing fast, still sound clear and smooth when singing fast. Older MJ when he had to sing fast, it was like he was grunting, screaming, hard to understand what he was saying.

Im not even talking about popular tracks. Listen to the underated dance songs such as "get on the floor"..."Burn this Disco Out"..."PYT"...."Working Day and Night"....."Your Ways"

"lovely one".."everybody"....."walk right now"

Honestly there is a huge difference in vocal ability from young MJ to older Mike on dance tracks. Huge....When did older MJ sing fast, yet with range? All the faster songs when he was older, he is grunting and screaming. Where is the vocal range? Slower and Mid-Tempo tracks older Mike was still great.

For example the songs "Invincible" and "heartbreaker" unless your in denial and don't want to admit it. Comparing those vocals to MJ on the older tracks, and you think 2001 sounds better, than i don't know what to say.

Younger MJ on dance tracks is popular to the entire world. Not just the fan base. Die hard fans will love and support anything you put out. You can drop "Lost Children" to radio stations and die hard fans will vote for the top nine at nine countdown. Does that mean that song is hot? Nope

The angry style is popular to the fan base, but not popular to the average music fan simply turning on the radio, or at a club just wanting to dance. They would much rather here some "Dont Stop To You Get Enough", " Working Day and Night", "PYT", Tracks from the triumph album.

Grunting and singing angry is cool, but when a artist actually sings. Dance or slow, you feel it more. Hitting those notes with range. You feel it, and that makes the song CATCHY

For example the song "Invincible" to me the vocal arrangement is horrible. Im a die hard fan who can admit MJ was wrong. Im not the type of fan to say he does everything right all the time.

I don't understand why you always need to reply to everybody. Some threads "transform" into "Babybemine threads" because half the posts are your replies to others.

EDIT ....

Anyway, since you don't like MJ's angry voice when he got older (to me it is the same voice tbh), then be happy now that you got some Malachi "velvet"(lol) voice on 3 tracks, one of them "Monster"

EDIT You can admit that MJ was wrong, WOW THAT TAKES STRENGTH MAN! LOL

EDIT2 I LOVE the "Lost Children"

EDIT3 Stop belittling Mike
 
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BabeBeMine

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Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Malachi is a obsession from some MJ fans. Unreality and assuming he is singing on tracks from a new MJ album. So sad.

Michael's own fans ruined his album. Spamming every website that allows you to send a message with the 1 million times...Its fake, its fake, fake.

If i were Sony i would never release another MJ album again. Thats a rap. Complain and whine every single album is annoying.

Lack of promotion, its not him...blah blah blah. No other artist fans complain like this

Im with Will i Am. Enjoy the legacy and stop worrying about new material
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET

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Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Malachi is a obsession from some MJ fans. Unreality and assuming he is singing on tracks from a new MJ album. So sad.

Michael's own fans ruined his album. Spamming every website that allows you to send a message with the 1 million times...Its fake, its fake, fake.

If i were Sony i would never release another MJ album again. Thats a rap. Complain and whine every single album is annoying.

Lack of promotion, its not him...blah blah blah. No other artist fans complain like this

Im with Will i Am. Enjoy the legacy and stop worrying about new material


It is true that many fans whine about everything, but it is not true that fans destroy the album. If fans had the power to destroy the album, they would also have the power to promote it, which is not the case.

If SONY had a proper promotion no one would be able to boycott it! They have that media power and the money to do it. Not us.
 

Arklove

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Re: Monster - The Great Debate

For example the songs "Invincible" and "heartbreaker" unless your in denial and don't want to admit it. Comparing those vocals to MJ on the older tracks, and you think 2001 sounds better, than i don't know what to say.

Younger MJ on dance tracks is popular to the entire world. Not just the fan base. Die hard fans will love and support anything you put out. You can drop "Lost Children" to radio stations and die hard fans will vote for the top nine at nine countdown. Does that mean that song is hot? Nope

Whoa whoa....I was just asking you a simple question! No need to slip some minor jabs in there...I just wanted to know exactly what you meant, so I can understand what you're saying...
 

mixedbymike

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Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

i've read a lot of post's regarding the authenticity of the vocals on the latest michael jackson album. in regard to the song "Monster" i know 100% the vocals are him. however that peticular track has been sped up and that his vocals have been pitched shifted up a little bit.

a friend of mine actually mixed on one of the three tracks that were given to Teddy Riley.
Being an audio engineer myself, i got some information on how that track was edited.

The original casio track was much slower, so for Teddy to make it more modern with the production he decided to speed it up (about 9 percent) and recreate the whole song from scratch, using the casio demo as a guide.

So when you speed up an acapella. the pitch will obviously change.
but with audio software like Melodyne (youtube it) you can fine tune pitch of the vocal take.
regardless of how well of a singer you are, 99% of the time Melodyne, or Autotune is used to tighten up the vocals. this HAD to be done because the whole track was sped up.

now if you try to slow down, or "Time Strech" the monster track it will NOT sound like michael no matter how hard you try because again, the key of the song will change and it just wont be the same. There is software that i've come across to slow down, and pitch down the track without changing the key.

i used "The Amazing Slowdowner" software to slow and pitch down the song.
i used the following settings and got it sounding close to Mike as possible.

Pitch: -23cents
Speed: 91.74speed

What do you guys think?

http://uploading.com/files/c33e277c/Monster+-23cents+91.74speed.mp3/
 

SeriousEffect.

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I believe Monster's vocal are legitimate as well, but you don't have to be an audiophile to know that.
 

seany

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I know it's him and don't require your information to back it up but I applause you all the same - very informative and useful. Thanks.
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

i've read a lot of post's regarding the authenticity of the vocals on the latest michael jackson album. in regard to the song "Monster" i know 100% the vocals are him. however that peticular track has been sped up and that his vocals have been pitched shifted up a little bit.

a friend of mine actually mixed on one of the three tracks that were given to Teddy Riley.
Being an audio engineer myself, i got some information on how that track was edited.

The original casio track was much slower, so for Teddy to make it more modern with the production he decided to speed it up (about 9 percent) and recreate the whole song from scratch, using the casio demo as a guide.

So when you speed up an acapella. the pitch will obviously change.
but with audio software like Melodyne (youtube it) you can fine tune pitch of the vocal take.
regardless of how well of a singer you are, 99% of the time Melodyne, or Autotune is used to tighten up the vocals. this HAD to be done because the whole track was sped up.

now if you try to slow down, or "Time Strech" the monster track it will NOT sound like michael no matter how hard you try because again, the key of the song will change and it just wont be the same. There is software that i've come across to slow down, and pitch down the track without changing the key.

i used "The Amazing Slowdowner" software to slow and pitch down the song.
i used the following settings and got it sounding close to Mike as possible.

Pitch: -23cents
Speed: 91.74speed

What do you guys think?

http://uploading.com/files/c33e277c/Monster+-23cents+91.74speed.mp3/

Basically what you just explained anyone could be a singer today thanks to melodyne. But how come that if the original Monster track was slower that:

1) Nobody from SONY guys wants to share in order to prove it's Michael
2) When you speed up a track the vocals would hit higher pitch, which means that the original would have been sung even deeper. Could Michael sing really that deep?
 

Arklove

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Thank you for the effort...It sounds the same to me, except just slowed down...
 

Pentum

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

This proves nothing, nada, zip. Sounds exactly like the original version, only slowed down with a bit pitched. I could do this to many Malachi songs and get the exactly same voice.
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

just listened to your version, the voice timbre did not move a bit and the husk isn't Michael's. The part "stalking me" doesn't sound Michael's accent.
 
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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

This proves nothing, nada, zip. Sounds exactly like the original version, only slowed down with a bit pitched. I could do this to many Malachi songs and get the exactly same voice.

Right back at ya! :punk:
 
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barok232

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

i've read a lot of post's regarding the authenticity of the vocals on the latest michael jackson album. in regard to the song "Monster" i know 100% the vocals are him. however that peticular track has been sped up and that his vocals have been pitched shifted up a little bit.

a friend of mine actually mixed on one of the three tracks that were given to Teddy Riley.
Being an audio engineer myself, i got some information on how that track was edited.

The original casio track was much slower, so for Teddy to make it more modern with the production he decided to speed it up (about 9 percent) and recreate the whole song from scratch, using the casio demo as a guide.

So when you speed up an acapella. the pitch will obviously change.
but with audio software like Melodyne (youtube it) you can fine tune pitch of the vocal take.
regardless of how well of a singer you are, 99% of the time Melodyne, or Autotune is used to tighten up the vocals. this HAD to be done because the whole track was sped up.

now if you try to slow down, or "Time Strech" the monster track it will NOT sound like michael no matter how hard you try because again, the key of the song will change and it just wont be the same. There is software that i've come across to slow down, and pitch down the track without changing the key.

i used "The Amazing Slowdowner" software to slow and pitch down the song.
i used the following settings and got it sounding close to Mike as possible.

Pitch: -23cents
Speed: 91.74speed

What do you guys think?

http://uploading.com/files/c33e277c/Monster+-23cents+91.74speed.mp3/

Far from proof.

Join Date: December 2010?

Welcome to the forum newbie! (And also welcome to my ignore list)

EDIT Usually normal people say "hello" and introduce themselves when first posting. Showing your agenda from the first post already? You joined to PROVE? Unbelievable

EDIT2 Malachi's former manager also said that Jason's vocals were pitched on the Cascio tracks
 
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ivy

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I think nobody should expect to get a perfect result - regardless of the song and the methods used.

In every case you will be editing/modifying an already edited/modifying song hence you cannot get the actual raw vocals but double edited vocals. The pitch, vibrato etc bound to sound unnatural.


Join Date: December 2010?

let me remind you that new -old , real -fake fan talk is not allowed here.
 

Pentum

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Of course you can't get a perfect result. You NEVER will, because Michael never sang this :) .
 

ivy

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Of course you can't get a perfect result. You NEVER will, because Michael never sang this :) .

remember to differentiate between an opinion and fact.
 

GThomson93

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Don't need this to prove it's him. Already know it is 100% MJ.
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Ok, many have compared Monster's vocals to Privacy vocals (???) Now, please, I am begging you, listen again the two songs and please compare as objectively as you can:

1) Michael's typically husky voice is clearly present on PRIVACY and absent/different on MONSTER

2) Neither the depth nor the voice timbre (color/tone) is the same.

3) And most importantly that we mustn't neglect - the accent and the phonetics!
Listen when the singer pronounces the phrase "stalking me" on MONSTER at 3:58 and compare it to the same phrase "stalking me" on PRIVACY at 0:30!!!! Not only the accent is completely different, but the way the phonemes are pronounced, especially the phoneme "S"!

PRIVACY:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr8pY9bNsrY

MONSTER:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdV5YTpuKIs
 

GThomson93

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

So singing voices don't change over the years is what you're saying?
 

Roosje

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Far from proof.

Join Date: December 2010?

Welcome to the forum newbie! (And also welcome to my ignore list)

EDIT Usually normal people say "hello" and introduce themselves when first posting. Showing your agenda from the first post already? You joined to PROVE? Unbelievable

EDIT2 Malachi's former manager also said that Jason's vocals were pitched on the Cascio tracks

You are incredibly rude. Your growing ignore list isn't all that interesting to us. You remind me of a little child with his fingers in his ears, going 'NANANANANANANANA! CAN'T HEAR YA!'.

To Original poster: thank you for the effort. I still hear Michael as I always did, but I do understand now why Teddy has sped the track up. It sounds much better as it is on the album. Well done Teddy once again!
 

MJJuniorSinceMW

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Oh, what an warm-hearted, kind & lovable person this barok-guy is.
(He shows in everyone of his posts) Would so much enjoy to have a cup of tea with him.

And if there are any questions: Only got to go to 'ms. fact', aka pentum.
There you'll be helped.
 

loka

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Ok, many have compared Monster's vocals to Privacy vocals (???) Now, please, I am begging you, listen again the two songs and please compare as objectively as you can:

1) Michael's typically husky voice is clearly present on PRIVACY and absent/different on MONSTER

MJ didn't always have this Husky voice (is it scary !!! or YRMW for example)

3) And most importantly that we mustn't neglect - the accent and the phonetics!
Listen when the singer pronounces the phrase "stalking me" on MONSTER at 3:58 and compare it to the same phrase "stalking me" on PRIVACY at 0:30!!!! Not only the accent is completely different, but the way the phonemes are pronounced, especially the phoneme "S"!

That's why i think the last part of Monster is not sung by MJ...too
 

MJJuniorSinceMW

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

You are incredibly rude. You growing ignore list isn't all that interesting to us. You remind me of a little child with his fingers in his ears, going 'NANANANANANANANA! CAN'T HEAR YA!'.

To Original poster: thank you for the effort. I still hear Michael as I always did, but I do understand now why Teddy has sped the track up. It sounds much better as it is on the album. Well done Teddy once again!

Roosje, you should have an award for that.

But don't write so much in this context. IT's NOT WORTH IT!

BIG HUG 4 YOU!
 

GThomson93

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I really don't get how the people who doubt these vocals can't detect MJ's voice. It's pretty damn obvious it's him.
 
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barok232

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

remember to differentiate between an opinion and fact.

What's the fact? What Sony and the Estate SAYS? And not more than half the community's ears who doubt the vocals?

And let me tell you that you are making excessive use of your authority here (being moderator here). So is the above just an opinion of yours, or some kind of warning? Please remember to differentiate

My opinion is that moderators should post less and not get into one on one conversations posting all the time making extra use of their authority. We know your opinions alright

(Just to catch a next possible response from you) I don't want to post the same things again, and I actually don't if you look at my posts closely, but here it is again someone opens a crazy thread (imo), so I have to post again
 

ivy

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

3) And most importantly that we mustn't neglect - the accent and the phonetics!

not specific to this song or this part, generally speaking : are you taking into account the additional supporting vocals for the accent and the phonetics? I mean it's already stated that James Porte did some vocals. Some parts could have been completed by him and/or other people hence the difference.
 

Arklove

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I really don't get how the people who doubt these vocals can't detect MJ's voice. It's pretty damn obvious it's him.

well, just the same that we don't get how people who believe the vocals CAN detect MJ's voice...To us, it's pretty damn obvious it's not him...:D
 

Milka

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

So when you speed up an acapella. the pitch will obviously change.

But you can change the tempo without changing the pitch. At least in Audacity. So I'm sure with those fancy "pro" programs, you can do this as well.

2) When you speed up a track the vocals would hit higher pitch, which means that the original would have been sung even deeper. Could Michael sing really that deep?

Why not? Also, it depends on how much they sped it up, it could be anything from just a semi tone higher to, I don't know, 2 octaves.

Not saying the OP is right, I'm always suspicious on the net when it comes to "insiders".
 
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