Exactly, plus there is a difference between the (controversial) situation, when small amounts of propofol could be administered outside of hospital setting with CERTAIN safety measures and the case of Murray being completely reckless about it. So this argument about small amounts etc. does not hold for this particular situation even if this is said that it is possible to administer propofol outside of hospital.
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Murray Trial - September 27 - Day 1 - Discussion Thread
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xthunderx2
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y
they are still trying to shift the blame to Klein...AND they are still trying to say that Michael had a demeral addiction....unbelievable.
Misayko
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ok i just listened to the audio recording. this is def the worst that could have been provided to the public.
im in tears now. sweet michael, what happened
im in tears now. sweet michael, what happened
Vici
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This is the full recording
[youtube]7XJFoH2MwLY[/youtube]
This is just so painful... being under influence of something, MJ STILL thinks of unselfish acts... god bless him.
MJ had a vision that Murray took away from him in a heartbeat...
Yes, same here ... and we also know that the recording is from 6 weeks before his death, somebody could have done something ...
athina_livadi
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It doesn't seem like his voice to me!
I agree...I wasn't ready to hear the recording either...The picture of Michael on the stretcher wasn't too bad...It still brought tears to my eyes, but he did look angelic...
The recording was very hard to listen to...He sounded so helpless and just completely out of it..Sounding the way he did and Murray STILL giving him propofol after that??? It needed to stop! I won't listen to it again....
It's not how I ever wanted to hear that angelic voice...But it's still him...you know? Well, an empty oxygen tank, no monitors...And I'm pretty sure he was infusing propofol by gravity?!?...Unless he gave it IV push (either way, NOT safe without life-saving equipment...in that case, there should have at least been an oxygen saturation monitor..At the very least!! How a health professional does this, let alone a cardiologist, is beyond me...Just absolutely horrendous...I'm still boggled that anyone can actually defend this moron...
DreamalilDream
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I dnt think I will be the same after that recording. I feel so sad and empty, helpless all kinds of emotions. Poor poor sweet Michael.
MJstarlight
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yes its a 90 minute lunch break
bluetopez
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This is all so heart breaking did not expect them to show a pic of him dead at the hospital! =,( and that recording was horrible! That bastard Murray HOW SICK of him to record Mj like that! The weaning Mj off theory literally got tossed out the window with that recording! That's the only thing good that can come out of it! The pros opening was powerful! They did great!
xthunderx2
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yeah that is how I feel to...:boohoo:
Misayko
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i havent seen it fromthis point. you are right. why has murray recorded him?? like he already knew it might be helpful later
taimeka16
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Tell murray to stop crying them fake ass tears.before lightening come down and strike him or imma put my size 12 shoes through the tv
wendy2004
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Exactly! And I can't wait for the Father of Propofol to acknowledge this fact when the Prosecution asks the explosive question whether he (the FATHER of propofol) would EVER under ANY circumstances think it was okay and/or proper to leave someone under its influence alone for ANY amount of time? White's entire credibility as a doctor will go to ish if he even THINKS about answering "maybe". It has to be outright and flatout NO. And that answer alone is enuf to bury Murray and make the rest of his testimony about whatever else he wants to say in the defense's favor utterly USELESS.
Demoral was brought up, but the Pros. can use that bury Murray, too. Chernoff spoke of MJ compartmentalizing his life, however, if there's one person who should never fit in that category it is a doctor. Doctors are the one person who should know what no one else in the world might now. It's their job to get all up in your business cuz that's how they decide how to treat and care for a patient. D
octors are supposed to ASK their patients what they are taking and/or receiving from other doctors, medical issues, allergies...the smallest to largest of issues. If Murray admits he never did a full workup on Michael or at least tried to compile some kind of medical history beyond having the sniffles and foot fungus, he was again, neglectful in his duties as a personal physician. Bloodwork and other tests are standard for any doctor taking over the treatment of someone. You don't simply show up and say "what do you want me to do for you today?"....not unless you're there to get a check and don't give 2 craps otherwise. I LOVED Walgren's point that this was not a doctor/patient relationship with Michael and Murray but one of an employeer/employee. Nail on the head to some degree (altho I know some fans may take issue with that analogy; kinda harsh). However, I agree Murray acted like an employee...not a doctor. He abandoned Michael and he abandoned his oath as a doctor.
And after that opening by the defense, I'd cry, too.
The disrespect at misspelling Michael's name is just.... (I know the BeLIEvers are prolly already all over that one :doh: )
The photo: Caught me off guard...and so early in the proceedings. For a minute I couldn't believe I was actually looking at him lying there.
Then it felt like someone kicked me in the stomach. Had to keep it together cuz I'm at work. The jury needs to see that, tho. And the voicemail...for those who found it hard to hear (myself included)...we're going to hear it again in its entirety during the trial. If I remember correctly, it's actually a conversation between Murray and Michael but they gave us a snippet of the Michael part. I could have heard wrong about the convo bit...but I do know it's part of a longer transcript....so we gotta prepare and be strong. Wow..he had so much he wanted to do.
I wonder where Michael was when that was recorded. Was Murray in the room surrepticiously recording it or was Michael somewhere else in another location. If he was somewhere else...WTF or rather, WHO put him or left him in that state? Like...WTH???bouee
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Hi everybody, I haven't been here for some time ... It's great to have you at this difficult time
Yes he did bring up the demerol. He said that Klein would not testify, but some of his medical records would be used. The defense will have experts to talk about these records, but not Klein himself. At least that's what I understood.
Chernoff's theory so far : Murray is a saint, was not aware that Michael's insomnia was that bad. He was trying to wean him off propofol ... well he had been trying for 3 nights, everything was fine for the 2 first nights, and it didn't work on the 3rd night, because of demerol withdrawal...
And for such a low dose of propofol (he admitted to giving 25mg), you don't need that much monitoring, according to Chernoff. So Michael swallowed several pills of lorazepam (8 if I remember correctly, still according to Chernoff) , and propofol. That's why Murray was not aware of the high level of lorazepam & propofol.
In other words, I agree with everybody here, the defense seems desperate...
I was very shocked by the picture and the recording.. I'm not too sure this should have been shown outside of the courtroom. This is such an invasion of privacy for Michael and his family...
JMie
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InSession In Session
Several planes with banners flew over the courthouse. One reads "USA and the World Demand Justice" with a picture of #MichaelJackson.
now THIS I would love to see... anyone has a picture or a video of that moment?
Several planes with banners flew over the courthouse. One reads "USA and the World Demand Justice" with a picture of #MichaelJackson.
now THIS I would love to see... anyone has a picture or a video of that moment?
sophiemj
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he is not an anesthisiologist and I believe not even a cardiologist since he treated his kids when they met, general I do not think he is a doctor at all !How Michael got cheated with this actor cause he seems to me more like he is acting than experiencing....
The voice seems to be Mike together with Joe ...the photograph of the ambulance does not much the hospital one I think there is a big mess somewhere ....then how can a stoned person talk about charities and children ??
The voice seems to be Mike together with Joe ...the photograph of the ambulance does not much the hospital one I think there is a big mess somewhere ....then how can a stoned person talk about charities and children ??
elusive moonwalker
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so what was the the point of the judges ruling. he said demoral and pushing the blame onto klien would not be allowed. but here we have this in opening statements. makes no sense
Ashtanga
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Hey, what time will end today? Every day will be at the same time?
bouee
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That was the prosecution's point : Murray SHOULD have done something.
angelofhope
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The defence is truly pathetic. Walgreen is top class.
elusive moonwalker
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no pump.bolbus (sp) is the theory i believe
Vici
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"On the recording on Murray's iPhone, time-stamped 9:05 a.m. on May 10"
Guys... is this significant? The time?.. What time would MJ always come down to the kitchen to have breakfast with the kids.. was it at 8am? But Murray recorded Michael at 9am that morning... maybe Mj went back to bed?
Guys... is this significant? The time?.. What time would MJ always come down to the kitchen to have breakfast with the kids.. was it at 8am? But Murray recorded Michael at 9am that morning... maybe Mj went back to bed?
The Lost Child
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Bolus...hmm..I remember hearing that it was IV push...A bolus is given very quickly via IV line (should never be given this way without a pump)..IV push is directly through the IV saline lock...Either way, it's dangerous without equipment and ANY health care professional knows this, let alone a cardiologist.......
elusive moonwalker
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re the loraz in the stomach and the defence claims that mj took 8 pills. i thought they said there were no pills found in mj and the loraz was fluid injected