Paris Jackson in favor of separating the art from the artist, including her father Michael Jackson

Anna

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And therefore let's just peacefully disagree on this matter and see the difference between opinions from US that has big issue with people addicted to drugs and Europe where we see and treat this topics different and less people are addicted to drugs and people are healthier here in Europe than in US.
I'm not from the US. I'm British.
 

Anna

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ozemouze;4296690 said:
And again: "like the fans". Not "some fans" (I understand it's not even intentional, but still).

I said "the fans who". By default that excludes the fans who don't.

I agree with you basically, but it’s noticeable that while you expect understanding towards Paris (rightly so), MJ in a similar position is a field day again (and yep, I see the differences too, but the similarities are more dominant in their situations). It would be nice if the same standards and compassion should be applied to MJ too.

What are you even referring to? Is this about the letting children in his bed topic? I do have understanding for MJ. But I also have an understanding of the way society works.

I can understand the struggle, take care. :flowers: And please don't take my disagreements personally, I really just want to discuss some topics and ready to change my views or agree to disagree after a great conversation, no hard feelings really, just curiosity.

You too, fam. It's all right, I don't take it personally.
 

ozemouze

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BadAlicia;4296692 said:
Well let's peacefully disagree about weed. Maybe for me it seems different as I am from Europe and here people don't use this much medications and prescribed drugs as in US. And still for me side effects are too dangerous to take a risk of taking weed. I really think therapy and privacy is what Paris needs not weed and show business that can hurt her and use her as her father was hurt and used. It would be much more better if she tried to be more low key like Prince or Bigi than trying to be friends with even people who attacks her family and support BS gossips about her father. I really think that in Prince's case it helped he focused on education and helping others and Paris should try it as well. Sitting home and smoking weed or cigarettes won't help same as just partying or traveling and being around toxical people.

I'm from Europe as well. ;-) You'll find that psychiatric medications have even scarier side effects, and often therapy just isn’t enough - and to determine that is only up to professionals and their patients. Mental illnesses can be very severe and should always be taken seriously.

Prince can remain low-key at this point, as the route he chose allows him that “luxury”. Paris’s chosen path is music, which comes with even more exposure unfortunately, but it can’t be done otherwise. One thing I agree with is that she should be more cautious about the ruthlessness of the show business.
 

BadAlicia

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ozemouze;4296702 said:
I'm from Europe as well. ;-) You'll find that psychiatric medications have even scarier side effects, and often therapy just isn’t enough - and to determine that is only up to professionals and their patients. Mental illnesses can be very severe and should always be taken seriously.

Prince can remain low-key at this point, as the route he chose allows him that “luxury”. Paris’s chosen path is music, which comes with even more exposure unfortunately, but it can’t be done otherwise. One thing I agree with is that she should be more cautious about the ruthlessness of the show business.

Well its true mental issue topic is not easy I just have bad feelings regarding Paris and Gabriel, they give me a bit Amy Winehouse and Blake vibes especially as Gabriel does weed for fun and I am afraid whats more he can soon try for fun.

Well Lisa Marie as well makes music but she is still respectful towards her father and she never tried to be celebrity in a way Paris tries and for her mental health I really think she shouldn't try to be in show business in a way she tries and how she tries to be friends even with people who attacks her family and trash her father.
And speaking about her sexual life for sure is not what MJ would like for his baby girl. This is kind of Madonna action.
 

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And well the newest studies are against using weed for treating mental issues :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...for-mental-health-treatment-outweigh-benefits

"The use of cannabis medicines to treat people with depression, anxiety, psychosis or other mental health issues cannot be justified because there is little evidence that they work or are safe, according to a major new study.

A review of evidence from trials conducted over nearly 40 years, published in the journal Lancet Psychiatry, concludes that the risks outweigh the benefits. And yet, say the authors, they are being given to people with mental health problems in Australia, the US and Canada, and demand is likely to grow."

" While there is little evidence that cannabinoids can help, the authors found more evidence in “a large body of research” of the potential harms. “This research suggests that cannabis use can increase the occurrence of depression, anxiety, and psychotic symptom,” says the paper.

A well-constructed study found that smoked cannabis actually increased the risk of acute psychotic symptoms. And young adults, the age group more likely to suffer from anxiety, depression and psychosis, are more likely to become dependent if they use cannabis daily over a long period of time."

" In a comment piece in the journal, Deepak Cyril D’Souza of Yale University School of Medicine in New Haven, Connecticut, said that “in light of the paucity of evidence, the absence of good quality evidence for efficacy, and the known risk of cannabinoids, their use as treatments for psychiatric disorders cannot be justified at present.”

In modern medicine, it is normal practice to prove safety and efficacy in trials before drugs are allowed to be given out to patients."

And therefore I am worried about Paris and her well being and afraid she can be depended on prescribed drugs same as her father and we all know where it leaded him... And Gabriel for sure is not a good influence, she needs someone like MJ had Lisa Marie who was trying to fight his addiction and problems and in fact she was the one supporting him in a fight against drugs, I have a feeling that Gabriel is a "yes" person like Lisa Marie described people around MJ.
 

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I think she has already explain where she stands with MJ so if hater takes what she is saying to be anything else, that is their stupidity. From my perspective, I do not expect anything from her. She was not born when these claims came about and she was too young for the trial. Taj and Brandi, Sig etc are in a better position to defend MJ for it to be taken serious but as long as she just stand by her dad, that is all she can do; but we can debate the facts along with Taj and others. I just hope she does not allow people to use her. Also, Sia is trash and I would not deal with anyone who said something or thought something negative about my parent even more things that are proven lies. that is PERSONAL. Disney may or may not have been anti sematic but at least he was not talking about my family member which would effect me PERSONALLY. That is the difference.
 
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NatureCriminal7896

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Greez what a wild this thread was. i'm glad i left when i did. i'm just gonna say my two cent and let this be. we all have our opinions and beliefs at the end of the day we can agree and disagree respectful. Paris is a young adult with a whole life ahead of her. we can agree and disagree what she say and does.

I think if some people don't wanna be in Paris life they don't have to. it's easy to unfollow her and move on with your life. though at the end of the day she an adult and Michael child.

anyway i'm leaving this thread. i'm not a fan of Paris and agree with everything she say and does BUT at the end the day she her own person and own thing. I just want her to know her that Michael her father was 100% innocent which I know she knows too and to be careful. it's a crazy world out there and stay safe.
 
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ozemouze

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Anna;4296701 said:
I said "the fans who". By default that excludes the fans who don't.

Oh I see, sorry then.

Anna;4296701 said:
What are you even referring to? Is this about the letting children in his bed topic? I do have understanding for MJ. But I also have an understanding of the way society works.

No, I was referring to the quoted part about mental health problems and coping with them (including drug usage). Your wording sounded understanding towards Paris but critical towards MJ about a similar situation. And like I said, I see the differences too (partly due to more limited possibilities in MJ’s case and time), but I find the similarities more dominant, so I think both deserves understanding regarding their problems/situation.

But I often feel on a more general level too that we forget (even unintentionally) that MJ was an actual human being too. I don’t find topics deliberately concentrating on negativity or criticism useful, and threads like “he shouldn’t cover his vitiligo” are quite intrusive and judgmental. I remember on the old forum it wasn’t allowed to discuss his medical condition and other private things. I know this is a different forum, the AEG trial happened since (robbing MJ from the last remains of his privacy), and that he’s not here anymore either, and FTR: I don’t want these topics closed or anything (I simply ignored them). I guess I would just appreciate if fans showed more compassion towards him, that’s all.
 

Anna

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ozemouze;4296735 said:
Oh I see, sorry then.



No, I was referring to the quoted part about mental health problems and coping with them (including drug usage). Your wording sounded understanding towards Paris but critical towards MJ about a similar situation. And like I said, I see the differences too (partly due to more limited possibilities in MJ’s case and time), but I find the similarities more dominant, so I think both deserves understanding regarding their problems/situation.

But I often feel on a more general level too that we forget (even unintentionally) that MJ was an actual human being too. I don’t find topics deliberately concentrating on negativity or criticism useful, and threads like “he shouldn’t cover his vitiligo” are quite intrusive and judgmental. I remember on the old forum it wasn’t allowed to discuss his medical condition and other private things. I know this is a different forum, the AEG trial happened since (robbing MJ from the last remains of his privacy), and that he’s not here anymore either, and FTR: I don’t want these topics closed or anything (I simply ignored them). I guess I would just appreciate if fans showed more compassion towards him, that’s all.

Strong painkillers and propofol aren't mental health drugs, so I don't see what that has to do with me being understanding of his mental health? Those things were a lot more harmful than the weed he smoked, that's all I meant.

I don't mind criticism threads if they're done respectfully. Michael wasn't a saint after all. Like you said, he was human. Humans have many facets to them, some good some bad. You don't need to pretend like the negative things don't exist. It's all human. But threads that speculate about his health like the vitiligo or autism threads, etc., I don't like at all. But some people want to discuss those things. It is what it is. We all love Michael. That's why we're here and that's what matters at the end of the day.
 

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ScreenOrigami;4296514 said:
This is the part I’ll never understand. If you’re a musician, wouldn’t you be dreaming of having MJ’s gigantic global fan base supporting you? I mean, seriously, any artist who shows MJ some love, and be it just a tweet, will definitely be on the list of artists whose work we’re going to check out and – if it’s any good – support by either listening to it ourselves or recommend it to someone who may like it. Such a super easy way to get one’s name out there.

It seems that as a fellow Australian, Sia genuinely believes Wade Robson's BS and hasn't bothered to do any of her own research regarding his lies. She is a damaged individual herself, with a checkered past....massive addiction problems that she has clawed back from....she wants to support Paris and her brothers from the "survivor of pain and dysfunction" standpoint. I doubt that she would show MJ any love that would surely be fake, in order to gain more fans/supporters for herself. She thinks that she being true to herself, her beliefs, her opinions and who she is; but she is misguided, mistaken, uninformed and highly problematic for Paris. I truly wish that she would "support" her in private, if she must, instead of dragging her into a twitter and instagram mess that she does not need, in her own fragile state.

In response to the thread title and the first post - NO, I do not think that Paris is applying the "separate the artist from the art" rule to her own father. Her relationship to Michael was as his CHILD and she has never seen him as an ARTIST in the first place. He was and still is her father, first and foremost. There is no separating to be done. Thoughts of her father and what he meant to her still cause her a great deal of pain. She has not dealt with his loss as well as the two boys, or so it seems from the outside looking in. She is highly sensitive and is an empath, like her Dad. Prince stated once, that Paris is exactly like Michael, except in female form. I truly believe that. What she shows to the world on social media is probably 0.0002% of herself and I don't think it's fair to judge her, based on that. It is too simplistic an approach.
 

innuendo141

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Anyone that thinks that Paris' "separate the artist from the art" comment could have been about her father should not be allowed on the internet unsupervised.
 

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Anyone that thinks that Paris' "separate the artist from the art" comment could have been about her father should not be allowed on the internet unsupervised.

Wow, what a mature response! I could have gone in here to degrade you in the same snide fashion but I wont!

Now, saying we can enjoy Walt Disney even though he is alleged to be anti-semitic virtually means you CAN appreciate the art of someone, even if you dont support their beliefs or something they did.

That sentiment includes Michael Jackson, no matter how you spin it. Then its possible Paris is making an exception for Michael Jackson, but the general public wont know this and can interpret her statement whichever way they want, I have already seen people suggesting Paris might think her father is guilty after all etc after seeing the tweets.

Thats just not what we need in our fight!
 

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The main problem is that the focus should be on Sia, but thanks to her gaslighting it successfully shifted to Paris instead (unfortunately I fell for this trap too).

It started like any other case where the fanbase tries to balance the narrative by spreading information, promoting Square One etc, using the huge platform given to blue ticks. I think that’s a good and proactive step, but even if someone thinks it’s useless, hopefully we can agree that it doesn’t do any harm. This would be the end of this story, being just one case among many similar others.

It weren’t the fans who dragged Paris into this. Sia baited her with kindness and then immediately started acting in a condescending manner, as some kind of a savior for poor victim Paris. When fans tried to warn her about it, Sia gaslighted like they were bullying Paris, and she, again, the savior in a drama she instigated herself. Now, it can be argued whether fans should have interfered at all (lesson learnt from this situation: no), but those warning her definitely weren’t bullying (I know there are “fans” harassing her unfortunately, but that’s a different case).

Someone genuinely concerned about others would never publicly treat them as victims or insinuate things about them, even if truly believing that’s the case. Not to mention they would give them time to come to terms with their situation in their own pace, not persuading them into something. She could at best reach out to Paris privately (and without innuendos) with her concerns, but even that’s questionable as she’s basically just a stranger. That’s a legitimate criticism towards fans, but when Sia does the same it goes unnoticed, like it made a difference that she’s a famous person, not just MJ’s stupid fans.

And how could you support something you know basically nothing about, it’s just pretending then. It’s very cheap nowadays to “support cases” thanks to social media, all you have to do is just drop a tweet siding with a popular case/opinion, and you’ll be celebrated as woke and an activist and a good person - without doing anything, basically.

If Sia genuinely cared for R&S’s case as she pretended last year, she would have looked into it further (as that’s what someone does when truly interested in/touched by something). The fact that she obviously didn’t do that (then she would have found out by now that R&S aren’t necessarily telling the truth, and perhaps it would be better to support another, provably credible case) questions her intention and honesty to begin with.
 

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I don't really understand her response tbh. If someone makes fun of my full family and also believes my father fondled kids I wouldn't really be liking their tweets and supporting them.
 

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SmoothGangsta;4296805 said:
I don't really understand her response tbh. If someone makes fun of my full family and also believes my father fondled kids I wouldn't really be liking their tweets and supporting them.

This. And also, while I’m not a fan of cancel culture, there’s an almost infinite amount of great art out there, so I don’t really see the point in supporting an artist who talks crap about people I care about.
 

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Separate art from the artist would also apply to Michael if other people have a problem with Michael, but that has nothing to do with Paris herself thinking MJ was guilty. That's ridiculous. Paris isn't responsible for how other people perceive or twist what she says and it's not her duty to mollycoddle her father's fans every five minutes. She loves MJ but she is her own person. I'm surprised she hasn't lost the plot by now with the constant poking and complaining from so many fans on social media.
 

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Anna;4296813 said:
Paris isn't responsible for how other people perceive or twist what she says and it's not her duty to mollycoddle her father's fans every five minutes. She loves MJ but she is her own person.

It’s all true in general, only totally irrelevant to what happened. Why keep repeating self-evident things, when no one questioned them to begin with (a marginal number of entitled “fans” doing that doesn’t justify putting the whole fan community in the same category and using strawman arguments). And hurray, the focus is on Paris, again, and the whole case will go down in history as a “Paris vs fans” one, despite not being that at all.

Hopefully Paris will understand one day that if there’s an interest for her music in the fan community it isn’t because of her father, but genuine (otherwise people, even though sympathetic towards her as a person, just won’t care about her work), and that “fans” who harass her don’t represent the majority of the fandom.
 

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ozemouze;4296829 said:
It’s all true in general, only totally irrelevant to what happened. Why keep repeating self-evident things, when no one questioned them to begin with (a marginal number of entitled “fans” doing that doesn’t justify putting the whole fan community in the same category and using strawman arguments). And hurray, the focus is on Paris, again, and the whole case will go down in history as a “Paris vs fans” one, despite not being that at all.

Hopefully Paris will understand one day that if there’s an interest for her music in the fan community it isn’t because of her father, but genuine (otherwise people, even though sympathetic towards her as a person, just won’t care about her work), and that “fans” who harass her don’t represent the majority of the fandom.

"Self-evident". Well apparently not, or this thread wouldn't exist! I think it's gross. I don't know what your problem is, but just leave me alone.
 

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My interpretation of Paris' response re: 'separate the art from the artist' was in acknowledgment that while Sia may have negative views of her father, she can still appreciate her art, hence her favourable reply? Wishful thinking? I dunno..

It's evident that she replied with no prior knowledge that Sia had publicly admonished her father, but it was too late retract her statements when it become apparent that this wasn't fabricated. Instead, she's taken the moral high ground, and approached it in the most adult way.

It must be hard to have avid MJ fans constantly moderate your interactions with other people. Its unreasonable to expect her to know of every single person that has said something distasteful about her father. MJ isn't her obesssion like he is ours. Her relationship with MJ is totally different. Fans are normally well intended however they don't help themselves when they go in so aggressively. It's exactly why we have a poor reputation and not taken seriously. There's probably a degree of defiance on her side that she won't allow fans to police who she can interact with! She's not our pawn in this complex
process.

Paris has plain and simple responded to a compliment in good faith. Had she known what she knows now - maybe she wouldn't have afforded her a response. Who knows? I do think that Sia has some audacity though - esp with her later responses.

And if the real meaning behind her response was a nod that she feels there's some credibility to the allegations, as devestating as it will be, there's nothing we can do about it sadly.
 

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I don’t agree with the OP post, but it wasn’t disrespectful or commanding towards Paris or questioning her right to be her own person at all (and Lightbringer shouldn’t get insulted for it). And we all managed to disagree in a civilized manner in the beginning of this thread.

Sorry for thinking people contribute to a discussion board in order to change POVs and engage in conversations, not just proclaiming things which should then be left alone.
 

Anna

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ozemouze;4296884 said:
I don’t agree with the OP post, but it wasn’t disrespectful or commanding towards Paris or questioning her right to be her own person at all (and Lightbringer shouldn’t get insulted for it). And we all managed to disagree in a civilized manner in the beginning of this thread.

Sorry for thinking people contribute to a discussion board in order to change POVs and engage in conversations, not just proclaiming things which should then be left alone.

Just couldn't resist, eh?

Let's refresh: "You often take a righteous and know-it-all stance". Wow, yes, that was very civil of you. That was definitely a very nice and necessary thing to say to someone you disagree with.

I'm allowed to say if I think a thread is horrible or not. Just like the hoax thread and the autism thread. I'm not insulting the person who posted it.
 

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When your "honest opinion" is disrespectful, no. It wasn't constructive criticism, it was just ignorant and rude. Disrespecting Michael's children is against forum rules.

My interpretation of Paris' response re: 'separate the art from the artist' was in acknowledgment that while Sia may have negative views of her father, she can still appreciate her art, hence her favourable reply? Wishful thinking? I dunno..

It's evident that she replied with no prior knowledge that Sia had publicly admonished her father, but it was too late retract her statements when it become apparent that this wasn't fabricated. Instead, she's taken the moral high ground, and approached it in the most adult way.

It must be hard to have avid MJ fans constantly moderate your interactions with other people. Its unreasonable to expect her to know of every single person that has said something distasteful about her father. MJ isn't her obesssion like he is ours. Her relationship with MJ is totally different. Fans are normally well intended however they don't help themselves when they go in so aggressively. It's exactly why we have a poor reputation and not taken seriously. There's probably a degree of defiance on her side that she won't allow fans to police who she can interact with! She's not our pawn in this complex
process.

Paris has plain and simple responded to a compliment in good faith. Had she known what she knows now - maybe she wouldn't have afforded her a response. Who knows? I do think that Sia has some audacity though - esp with her later responses.

And if the real meaning behind her response was a nod that she feels there's some credibility to the allegations, as devestating as it will be, there's nothing we can do about it sadly.

I am so sorry but if someone would support people who say my dad was a pedophile I wouldn't even bother to contact such people not to mention being friendly to them.

For my personal experience I am in a mixed couple, my husband is Afghan and Muslim my Polish family didn't accept us in the beginning so I was staying far from them and my cousin was supposed to get married and I was supposed to be invited alone so I rejected to come to the wedding. In the time my family didn't accept us I stopped any contact and was not coming back home.

Therefore I really don't understand Paris and I just think that she does it for fame and just for her carrier. As she uses her father name. Like in the story that her dad knew when she was just 8 that she is not straight. Bringing her father brings her attention. Simply.

I don't know but I have my pride and I would never act like Paris if it would be about my beloved ones.
 
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Yeah I saw these tweets too and Brett Barnes replied to it as well. He said he could never do something like this, but more power to her, which means Paris. Some fans said Paris is "killing Sia with kindness" here.

I also read a long list of tweets by Paris where she explained why she can't get worked up about things anymore, how she's "zen" these days etc. But I can't deny that I wish she would go against these assholes. She used to be like a rebel in some tweets years ago, go against people that did her or MJ wrong. But she has changed when it comes to that.

Better? Worse? I have no idea, what matters is how it feels for Paris herself. I have no doubts at all tjat she KNOWS MJ was 100% innocent.
 

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Yeah I saw these tweets too and Brett Barnes replied to it as well. He said he could never do something like this, but more power to her, which means Paris. Some fans said Paris is "killing Sia with kindness" here.

I also read a long list of tweets by Paris where she explained why she can't get worked up about things anymore, how she's "zen" these days etc. But I can't deny that I wish she would go against these assholes. She used to be like a rebel in some tweets years ago, go against people that did her or MJ wrong. But she has changed when it comes to that.

Better? Worse? I have no idea, what matters is how it feels for Paris herself. I have no doubts at all tjat she KNOWS MJ was 100% innocent.
And sometimes, it is good to just be quiet. She does not have to response to everything & everyone one. I am now to the point, I like it when she is quiet.
 
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And sometimes, it is good to just be quiet. She does not have to response to everything & everyone one. I am now to the point, I like it when she is quiet.

Absolutely. It's her right.

But personally I just don't like that she was giving props to a total idiot that shat on her father. Paris likes her music, just give a like to a comment of hers than but to start talking all friendly to Sia? I don't get that. But we're all different.
 
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