REAL Michael Jackson 4K Content

DuranDuran

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I know what you're talking about from doing a lot of portrait photography in non-necessarily well lit environments. But I think with the right algorithm, there must be a better possible version somewhere between these two screenshots. (It also looks like colors temperature changed for some reason.) (which is a reason why I did my restoration of Ghosts after seeing many others which I considered "overprocessed"... I'm curious to do some tests/comparisons with Smooth Criminal, ... but probabably won't have time for it)
The best way is to use the original film elements. But for something like music videos, most of them in the 1980s/1990s and before were edited (or shot in some cases) on videotape. Not much can be done with videotape, can't scan it into 4K, only make copies of the same quality. If the original footage was shot on film, and it was not thrown out, then any effects would have to be done over. That is more expensive to do, and wouldn't exactly be the same thing anyway, like with the 1960s Star Trek show. It's been said that some of the audio on the original Thriller video was lost and had to be re-created. Some people who saw the 3D version said it's noticeable. A lot of older TV sitcoms, soap operas, and music shows like American Bandstand were also filmed on tape. They can never be HD or 4K. With really old movies like silent era, they were shot on film that deteriorates faster and is really flammable. In a lot of cases the originals are lost or too deteriorated to scan into HD/4K. They might use film copies that were sent out to theaters in this case (if they still exist).
 

Galactus123

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If it was shot on film, it's supposed to have grain. If not, then it's been degrained like on the upcoming Beatles' Get Back on Disney+. Which makes people look like wax figures. Film isn't going to look like a modern digital shot movie/TV show. There is different quality in film stock though, so some older movies will have more grain than others.
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That looks bad. Reminds me of the 2010 Blu-Ray release of Predator. :D
 

Maxym

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Not sure if this was already mentioned elsewhere but I just noticed this on michaeljackson.com's FAQ regarding 4K, which I had not seen before :
(It seems to me that they sometimes update this FAQ showing they're actually paying attention to more things it seems.)

WILL THE ESTATE UPGRADE MICHAEL’S SHORT FILMS TO 4K?
The Estate has every intention of upgrading Michael’s short films wherever possible. Upgrading Michael’s short films is more akin to what is required for older theatrical motion pictures as opposed to music videos by other artists in large part due to all of the work (e.g., effects, etc.) customarily done on each short film beyond the actual filming and the manner and format in which all of that work was originally done. A few short films, like “Thriller” and “Smooth Criminal”, have 35 mm masters where the upgrade is expensive but much more doable. However, that is not the case for most of the short films and, in these cases, the process is more expensive and requires more work (and time). In some cases, it may not even be possible if all we have is a poor quality master tape and no original source materials are located. It is important for fans to understand that not everything that was created by Michael actually made it into Michael’s storage facilities (including, for example, the high def footage of the full Bad Tour concert at Wembley even though we know that Michael shot “Another Part of Me” at that and other concerts on film to create the short film for that song). But we will continue to look for the best solution for the challenges we face with each of the short films and we look forward to sharing the upgraded short films when the work required has been completed.

Source: https://www.michaeljackson.com/michael-jackson-faq/ , https://www.michaeljackson.com/faq/will-the-estate-upgrade-michaels-short-films-to-4k/
 

MJbr2

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John Lennon looks like he belongs in Madame Tussaud’s chamber of plastic celebrities. If this is 4k then you can keep it…
I'm pretty sure that is Peter Jackson's own method for dealing with "old footage" as he did the same on his WW1 documentary.
I don't he'll be involved in the production of MJs 4K short films, don't worry lol
 

Galactus123

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Not sure if this was already mentioned elsewhere but I just noticed this on michaeljackson.com's FAQ regarding 4K, which I had not seen before :
(It seems to me that they sometimes update this FAQ showing they're actually paying attention to more things it seems.)
That has been there for few years.
 

DuranDuran

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John Lennon looks like he belongs in Madame Tussaud’s chamber of plastic celebrities. If this is 4k then you can keep it
Well you can compare the 2 videos here. The first one is not 4K (and hasn't been restored), the 2nd version is. It hasn't been DNR'ed either like The Beatles documentary. You will have to change the video setting on the cog wheel because the videos will automatically show at 360. The Pudding Mix video doesn't go higher than 480, only the 4K video does. 480 is SD which is around what an old tube TV would display as and also what DVDs are
 

DuranDuran

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not for me, it's automatically 4k here

your internet speed must be trash if it does that
If I watch on directly on Youtube, the default is 480, but if the videos are embedded on other sites, then it's 360. But once I change it, it stays that way until I clear out the cookies. I don't have to change the settings on each video. If the first video I watch is 720, and I set it to that, it won't automatically change to a higher setting though. Most videos on Youtube aren't 4K anyway. Also, 4K on Youtube is not necessarily high definition. There's a lot of 4K videos that people have uploaded that are obviously 3rd generation videotape. Like this:
 

analogue

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If this is Thriller in 4k then I'm not a fan. The picture looks too bright and takes away from the horror aspect of the short film.
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filmandmusic

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Not a fan it is too clean. I don’t see the point of spending money on that. It looks fake for some reason.
Imagine watching practical effects heavy horror films in the best possible quality, you would immediately see how fake the special effects are.
 

LordLukas

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If this is Thriller in 4k then I'm not a fan. The picture looks too bright and takes away from the horror aspect of the short film.
9rbgyu36qfg41.jpg
They are compressed videos made only to promote, you should not judge based on a video with YouTube compression like the image below, or the compression of twitter and facebook of a video in vertical format like the image above.
 

wonderouzmj

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Now you complaining about the picture being too clean? Glad you can still watch the VHS.
I saw Thriller in 4K in Cinema and it was stunning. Whole new experience.
Like omfg guidedamn! No matter what it is....ppl are going to complain. I've seen this myself in theaters & I was fn mind blown! Then I got pissed because none of the other shorts looked this way. Now ppl are complaining about some screenshots from a phone & not seen with actual eyes & probably never seen it in person. I understand the frustration with the logos but man shamone!!! Stop being petty about every little thing. When it comes out most people in the Fandom will come with thier versions anyway that won't compare to the estate (props to happylee,love em) but man stop it with the white chick's antics ("omg she's going to have a btch fit") the colors aren't right, he wasn't that bright, the music is weird". Smh...we haven't had a decent project since xscape & that was half a$$ because we already knew of the tracks. Nothing like bad25. But after all these years...ppl are complaining about something that's so irrelevant. Forget the logo! Let's be happy john branca even remember to celebrate thriller even though he missed out opportunities like otw40 & d25/d30. Let's be glad we're getting anything but chalk! Please let's be great full before they they we feel we aren't greatful for anything & just give us a reissue & lie to us about they couldn't find the material (again)!!
 

DuranDuran

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Imagine watching practical effects heavy horror films in the best possible quality, you would immediately see how fake the special effects are.
I haven't seen it, but I was reading about the 4K disc version of The Wizard Of Oz (Judy Garland version). The article said that the wires in some scenes could be seen during the restoration, so they were digitally removed. The wires weren't really as noticeable in the older SD versions of the movie. With grain removal, I think that is more for younger audiences who mostly know digital shot movies & TV. It's probably the same for folks who only know the newer CGI Godzilla movies. They are not as likely going to get the guy in a rubber suit older ones or Ray Harryhausen style claymation dinosaurs/monsters compared to Jurassic Park era.

With the Thriller pics above, it looks like they added some kind of bluish tint to it. More so on the high school jacket one at least, almost like he's got pale makeup on. He looks more brown in the original photo. The jheri curl texture can be seen clearer on the 4K though. :)
 

KOPV

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Seeing MJ footage in real 4K would be amazing, too many fans are getting used to putting MJ footage through an AI program and calling it 4K. Most of them do not look right and ruin the experience.. Same with those AI enhanced pictures people do where MJ doesn't look like MJ anymore.

As someone that does color correction, and basic enhancements that do not destroy the authenticity of the footage we have... It's my personal belief we should only enhance what we can without AI thus as technology enhances (for the footage the Estate does not release in higher quality) someone can take that footage and correct it even more... AI's take blur details to get rid of pixels and various things it can't pick up, overly darkening shaded areas to make things 'pop' and it is no longer the same picture.
 

Galactus123

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Now you complaining about the picture being too clean? Glad you can still watch the VHS.
I saw Thriller in 4K in Cinema and it was stunning. Whole new experience.
It should still have the film grain in 4K. You lose detail if you remove it. I hope they haven't done that to Thriller.
 
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FunkyJoce

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It should still have the film grain in 4K. You lose detail if you remove it. I hope they haven't done that do Thriller.
I have seen Thriller remasters in 2017, the picture quality was amazing believe me. The grain was still present, maybe they used DNR a little bit, but it was ok.
 

Lord Szechenyi

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maybe they used DNR a little bit
everyone does, it's very rare that there's absolutely no DNR

It's just that it's a setting (think brightness) that can go from 1 to 10

The problem is that some people use 10 and nothing else, which gives wax figures
 
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