Should we reconsider what we think about the Estate?

Piek

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May be it's too early for this. But it's obvious that something is happening within the Estate. Maybe it's the influence of Prince. Recently they removed the Cascio tracks. I know, it's WAY too late. And their comments about it weren't OK. But at least they did it. And now, they listened to criticism about the cover art of Thriller 40, and they changed it. Again, after some stupid remarks by their online team. But they did it.

I know for some people here, the Estate = Evil. And I certainly understand the frustration. But if things are moving in the right direction, then should we reconsider our position? Should we support them for the good things? I know it's a lot to ask... but I also feel like we should be rewarding if they do something right.

(Bit scared to press 'Post thread', haha!)
 
Hiker

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As someone said to me before - I am too new here to be disappointed by the Estate, but I do see them doing good things in 2022. Something has changed, either Prince is more involved or they have recovered from all the drama from last few years. I am hopeful (and prepared to have my hopes squashed based on all the comments from long time fans)
 

SmoothGangsta

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People still give them credit when they do something right. People aren't going to be suddenly be jumping for joy, saying how awesome it is etc whenever that happens though. It seems the absence of that creates a void of some sort for some users on here. You'll notice telling people to shut up and calling them entitled when they express their opinions only goes one way on this forum.

Points are constantly made that are pretty much generalisations in order to tell people to shut up, call them whiney, entitled etc.

Some like to act like fans a pessimistic for no reason, there's plenty of reason to not be happy with the estate and not think they are doing a good job. I've also noticed people like to give them credit for literally no reason. Describing them as doing great things like removing the cascio tracks purely because they were worried they were gonna lose a court case, 12 years after they were released, or changing an absolutely horrendous cover for Thriller 40 to a slightly less offensive one, telling fans off through their PR team beforehand both times with the most seething clear disregard for who they're responding to. The contempt they have for their fanbase is pretty clear, and some like to ignore it and act like it's not there or that it's not a big deal. It's very present in most things they do and is probably the main reason why some fans are not willing to give them praise for doing the most basic of things.
 

Piek

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SmoothGangsta said:
You'll notice telling people to shut up and calling them entitled when they express their opinions only goes one way on this forum.
Click to expand...
I am not telling anyone to shut up... I just want to exchange opinions about what is happening in the Estate. I sense a change, but maybe it's wishful thinking. I'm interested to hear your opinion.
 

SmoothGangsta

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Piek said:
I am not telling anyone to shut up... I just want to exchange opinions about what is happening in the Estate. I sense a change, but maybe it's wishful thinking. I'm interested to hear your opinion.
Click to expand...
I wasn't referring to you when I said that. I don't personally think them doing the things they have done recently is indication of some change in direction. Hopefully I'm wrong and we'll see them do some good stuff in future.
 
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Lacra

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There are different reasons why certain fans dislike the Estate. If someone is only disappointed in the products they release, they will probably gladly support the Estate the moment they bring out some quality products.

But why should the other fans ever support the Estate? (for reasons I will not mention here) Also, it's obvious that the FANS are not the target audience. And if so, it feels like a scam. Personally, the only positive thing for me would be, if Prince would be more involved in all of this. But otherwise, supporting the Estate is like supporting Sony or AEG or whatever. Everyone has to decide what is more important to them.
 

bubbletoes

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SmoothGangsta said:
People still give them credit when they do something right. People aren't going to be suddenly be jumping for joy, saying how awesome it is etc whenever that happens though. It seems the absence of that creates a void of some sort for some users on here. You'll notice telling people to shut up and calling them entitled when they express their opinions only goes one way on this forum.

Points are constantly made that are pretty much generalisations in order to tell people to shut up, call them whiney, entitled etc.

Some like to act like fans a pessimistic for no reason, there's plenty of reason to not be happy with the estate and not think they are doing a good job. I've also noticed people like to give them credit for literally no reason. Describing them as doing great things like removing the cascio tracks purely because they were worried they were gonna lose a court case, 12 years after they were released, or changing an absolutely horrendous cover for Thriller 40 to a slightly less offensive one, telling fans off through their PR team beforehand both times with the most seething clear disregard for who they're responding to. The contempt they have for their fanbase is pretty clear, and some like to ignore it and act like it's not there or that it's not a big deal. It's very present in most things they do and is probably the main reason why some fans are not willing to give them praise for doing the most basic of things.
Click to expand...
This reflects my sentiment. Ppl make excuses for the estate and say that their one job is to make money. That may be their main focus but part of it but his legacy is in their sphere of responsibility - NO? There is no permanent dedicated memorial to visit for fans. Just saw a photo w memorial statues in other countries around the world. Im not certain but there might be a temporary one at mandalay bay (history statue). We do not have a dedicated place to visit so we gather at forest lawn. The place of many others and who allow only temporary displays and flowers etc. Neverland owners allow ppl to scribble the stone fence at the property. Some ppl go to his star in hollywood where ppl walk by and try to place some candles. C'mon, they have to do better than this.
Michael is the highest grossing posthumous celebrity (or close). Can't there be a place for us to celebrate just for him?
well, I made my point.
Also- Michael's fans are very sensitive to his legacy as we rightly should be since everytime you turn around there are grifters STILL attacking him even in death. Someone should be officially addressing these charges and the impact to his legacy. If it isn't the estate, then who? The fan base is singlehandedly and successsfully (imo) promoting, protecting and restoring Michael's reputation and legacy. The grass roots of it is the best part of it bc that's what sustained Michael during his darkest hour and the estate seems to be indifferent to the state of his legacy. They may not be, but they seem like they are.
There are a dozen projects they could undertake to help with this perception. /r
 

Andymachine

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The problem with the Jacksons even in their youth , was always about money. That still seems to be the case to this day. MJ would never have
allowed those album releases if he was still here.
 

katara

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Tbh my problem with the estate is the making of cheap products and lack of effort to release anything at all In the past 7 years I’ve been a fan. Michaels name is basically selling itself at this point. The Beatles, Elvis, prince, are all constantly pumping out new releases/box sets/anniversary and still none of them have made as much money as mj has since his death. Mj has gained a lot of new fans and it’s really in spite of the estate instead of because of it.

I don’t have a moral obligation not to listen to posthumous releases. He worked with estates posthumously himself. If he wanted to prevent such releases he would’ve put it in his will imo.

A lot of people that are fans of artists who have already passed like Elvis prince and Whitney have a lot of the same complaints as we do for the mj estate. The current executor has even insulted the fans in interviews saying they are all old and dying or overly tattooed women.
 

SmoothCriminal1995

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Good thread idea @Piek mate.

I do believe we fans are tough on the Estate, but I think we're used to excellence with Michael. Also I believe we expected more gems left in the vault, because Mike had a tendency to over exaggerate how much he "over recorded" in interviews.

So it's been an adjustment in expecting less and learning to cherish what we get more. There's been so many wonderful tracks and concerts that have been released/leaked and have not been appreciated enough in my opinion

Hopefully we get a couple of "new tracks" on Thriller and I hope there are endless threads appreciating how great they are, and how fortunate we are to hear new material from our hero.
 
staywild23

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bubbletoes said:
This reflects my sentiment. Ppl make excuses for the estate and say that their one job is to make money. That may be their main focus but part of it but his legacy is in their sphere of responsibility - NO? There is no permanent dedicated memorial to visit for fans. Just saw a photo w memorial statues in other countries around the world. Im not certain but there might be a temporary one at mandalay bay (history statue). We do not have a dedicated place to visit so we gather at forest lawn. The place of many others and who allow only temporary displays and flowers etc. Neverland owners allow ppl to scribble the stone fence at the property. Some ppl go to his star in hollywood where ppl walk by and try to place some candles. C'mon, they have to do better than this.
Michael is the highest grossing posthumous celebrity (or close). Can't there be a place for us to celebrate just for him?
well, I made my point.
Also- Michael's fans are very sensitive to his legacy as we rightly should be since everytime you turn around there are grifters STILL attacking him even in death. Someone should be officially addressing these charges and the impact to his legacy. If it isn't the estate, then who? The fan base is singlehandedly and successsfully (imo) promoting, protecting and restoring Michael's reputation and legacy. The grass roots of it is the best part of it bc that's what sustained Michael during his darkest hour and the estate seems to be indifferent to the state of his legacy. They may not be, but they seem like they are.
There are a dozen projects they could undertake to help with this perception. /r
Click to expand...

Honestly, this is the best response I've ever seen to this and similar threads/conversations. You are absolutely right. All of the things you mention here are deeply upsetting to me. I am definitely more positive about the estate than a lot of people (probably because I'm a newer fan) but I absolutely agree with everything you said here. Specifically, the parts I bolded. You hit the nail on the head for the issues I personally have with the estate. I am amazed at the tireless effort so many fans put into promoting Michael and protecting his legacy. It proves just how magical and how powerful he was that 13 years after his death he is constantly generating new fans and creating fans so dedicated to him, even when he's not here. He deserves everything they do, but I wish the estate was more proactive. It kind of blows my mind that LN came out and there was never really any response, to my knowledge. That's wild.
 

zinniabooklover

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katara said:
Tbh my problem with the estate is the making of cheap products and lack of effort to release anything at all In the past 7 years I’ve been a fan. Michaels name is basically selling itself at this point. The Beatles, Elvis, prince, are all constantly pumping out new releases/box sets/anniversary and still none of them have made as much money as mj has since his death. Mj has gained a lot of new fans and it’s really in spite of the estate instead of because of it.

I don’t have a moral obligation not to listen to posthumous releases. He worked with estates posthumously himself. If he wanted to prevent such releases he would’ve put it in his will imo.

A lot of people that are fans of artists who have already passed like Elvis prince and Whitney have a lot of the same complaints as we do for the mj estate. The current executor has even insulted the fans in interviews saying they are all old and dying or overly tattooed women.
Click to expand...
JFC!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious? Someone ACTUALLY SAID THAT SH#T?????

I already had a strong dislike for the Estate. Now? They can eff the hell off. How DARE they say sh#t like that?
 
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MacMandy90

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In my perspective, I can understand that the estate is doing whatever they can to keep it going, the fans especially are the ones who have a voice and the base keeps growing every moment. I know there is bias down the middle regarding the estate of course, we know that if Michael were still with us today, he would have been the crucial and perfectionist driving force behind it all and to not let it go into disarray.

SmoothCriminal1995 said:
Good thread idea @Piek mate.

I do believe we fans are tough on the Estate, but I think we're used to excellence with Michael. Also I believe we expected more gems left in the vault, because Mike had a tendency to over exaggerate how much he "over recorded" in interviews.

So it's been an adjustment in expecting less and learning to cherish what we get more. There's been so many wonderful tracks and concerts that have been released/leaked and have not been appreciated enough in my opinion

Hopefully we get a couple of "new tracks" on Thriller and I hope there are endless threads appreciating how great they are, and how fortunate we are to hear new material from our hero.
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree with you on this mate, and Michael would have wanted us to enjoy these gems he made, regardless of how he felt they were in his view. I truly believe we're all very fortunate to hear it all.

katara said:
A lot of people that are fans of artists who have already passed like Elvis prince and Whitney have a lot of the same complaints as we do for the mj estate. The current executor has even insulted the fans in interviews saying they are all old and dying or overly tattooed women.
Click to expand...
zinniabooklover said:
JFC!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious? Someone ACTUALLY SAID THAT SH#T?????

I already had a strong dislike for the Estate. Now? They can eff the hell off. How DARE they say sh#t like that?
Click to expand...
@katara Honestly, how petty and low are these people? Especially someone who is the current executor of the estate...Michael would never, ever have allowed that kind of behavior or unethical practice of business and service it's downright rude and disgusting.

@zinniabooklover Dear, I can honestly agree with you on that entirely...shame on them!

Anywho, that's my two cents on that lol.
 
Hiker

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katara said:
Tbh my problem with the estate is the making of cheap products and lack of effort to release anything at all In the past 7 years I’ve been a fan. Michaels name is basically selling itself at this point. The Beatles, Elvis, prince, are all constantly pumping out new releases/box sets/anniversary and still none of them have made as much money as mj has since his death. Mj has gained a lot of new fans and it’s really in spite of the estate instead of because of it.
Click to expand...
well, he is THAT good.
Maybe that's why Estate is not doing much, they are making more money this way.
 

SilkySnare

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Excuse my ignorance but what is all this talk about Prince's involvement?
 

SilkySnare

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Oh...THAT Prince.
I had to Google just now to realise the other Prince died in 2016.
Been living under a rock, sorry 😐
 

zinniabooklover

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Hiker said:
Is this confirmed? I thought it was just speculations.
Click to expand...
oh, I didn't see that. Can't remember where I saw it, maybe I just assumed it was true. This is what happens when you're as disengaged as I am, lol.
 

SmoothGangsta

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I am not really all that convinced that Prince has direct control over what the estate does. He probably is consulted and that's it.
 

MJbr2

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Hiker said:
nice! That's a trusted source (I hope). I don't know anything about Prince Jackson, but somehow his involvement with the Estate is reassuring. I would expect him to think more about preserving his father's legacy than just making money.
Click to expand...
He was involved in movie production some years ago. He produced a music video for someone through his company afaik.
 
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