The Cascio Tracks Have Been REMOVED!!!

StellaJackson

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
2,726
Points
63
Could you share this confirmation? I’ve never seen it.
@MorinenMJ
Malachi's lawyer Alan Tilles had contacted my lawyer before he spoke to the Estate. Malachi wanted to help us settle the Cascio songs case and get compensated for the tracks in the process. The Estate didn't like that idea though. Hence... we are in the Supreme Court.

@MorinenMJ
I’m the one litigating with Sony, the Jackson estate and Cascio/Porte over these songs. We spoke to Jason Malachi’s lawyer who wanted Jason to be paid for singing on these songs. Sony/Jackson Estate’s lawyers are aware of this. There’s no question Jason, and not MJ is the singer.
 

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
@MorinenMJ
Malachi's lawyer Alan Tilles had contacted my lawyer before he spoke to the Estate. Malachi wanted to help us settle the Cascio songs case and get compensated for the tracks in the process. The Estate didn't like that idea though. Hence... we are in the Supreme Court.

@MorinenMJ
I’m the one litigating with Sony, the Jackson estate and Cascio/Porte over these songs. We spoke to Jason Malachi’s lawyer who wanted Jason to be paid for singing on these songs. Sony/Jackson Estate’s lawyers are aware of this. There’s no question Jason, and not MJ is the singer.
… wow. Even within the legal realm of “make absurd arguments in order to avoid responsibility,” this is absolutely damning. I can’t believe I missed this.

That explains why Sony/the estate is fighting so hard to avoid culpability.
 

Hess

Proud Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
11,481
Points
113
I must say - after they removed the 3 tracks I've heard the album almost on repeat ever since...

Amazing album, great vocals, great songs and great production. I really enjoy they album.

I wonder how big it could have been had it not been for the fake songs and all the controversy and negativity back then.

First album since MJ died - imagine the 3 songs where replaced with fx Price of Fame in a updated version, We've Had Enough and then 1 new song... Could have been absolutely HUGE !!
 

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
I’m telling you, people let the Cascio tracks overshadow everything else. “Hollywood Tonight” (excluding the spoken word bridge), “Best of Joy,” “Behind the Mask,” “Much Too Soon”… other than a couple puzzling decisions (e.g., MJ’s harmonies being buried in “Hold My Hand,” the horrible reworking of “Another Day”), it’s a perfect example of how producers can improve upon the original demos.
 

AChanceToDance

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Messages
460
Points
63
I would've loved if RedOne and Will.I.Am let the Estate release their songs on the album, the songs likely sound outdated at this point and releasing them in 2010 was the best opportunity as the songs back then were still new and relevant.
 

kreen

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
975
Points
28
“Hollywood Tonight” (excluding the spoken word bridge)
Hollywood Tonight is butchered on the Michael CD, compared to the demo that was thankfully leaked. They:

1- removed a line of lyrics ("She's only thirteen"), which is crazy when you're dealing with a demo with limited vocals anyway; why would you remove some of the vocals when you already have so little of them in the first place?
2- removed the great, evocative bridge music from the demo, and replaced it with a spoken-word section that disrupts the flow of the song, and contradicts the rest of the lyrics, showing that the girl in the song makes it big in Hollywood, when the rest of the lyrics imply she doesn't;
3- didn't use the actual lyrics to the bridge, which were found in MJ's papers.

They should have used the bridge music from the demo, and gotten someone to come up with and sing a melody that fit the words to the bridge found in MJ's papers.
 

AChanceToDance

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Messages
460
Points
63
Hollywood Tonight is butchered on the Michael CD, compared to the demo that was thankfully leaked. They:

1- removed a line of lyrics ("She's only thirteen"), which is crazy when you're dealing with a demo with limited vocals anyway; why would you remove some of the vocals when you already have so little of them in the first place?
2- removed the great, evocative bridge music from the demo, and replaced it with a spoken-word section that disrupts the flow of the song, and contradicts the rest of the lyrics, showing that the girl in the song makes it big in Hollywood, when the rest of the lyrics imply she doesn't;
3- didn't use the actual lyrics to the bridge, which were found in MJ's papers.

They should have used the bridge music from the demo, and gotten someone to come up with and sing a melody that fit the words to the bridge found in MJ's papers.
I was about to write about this lol, but I agree. They should've used Neff-U's remix, it made the song not sound like an unfinished demo and it still remained faithful to MJ's vision.
 

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
Hollywood Tonight is butchered on the Michael CD, compared to the demo that was thankfully leaked. They:

1- removed a line of lyrics ("She's only thirteen"), which is crazy when you're dealing with a demo with limited vocals anyway; why would you remove some of the vocals when you already have so little of them in the first place?
2- removed the great, evocative bridge music from the demo, and replaced it with a spoken-word section that disrupts the flow of the song, and contradicts the rest of the lyrics, showing that the girl in the song makes it big in Hollywood, when the rest of the lyrics imply she doesn't;
3- didn't use the actual lyrics to the bridge, which were found in MJ's papers.

They should have used the bridge music from the demo, and gotten someone to come up with and sing a melody that fit the words to the bridge found in MJ's papers.
I absolutely agree that the lyrical changes ruin the song’s meaning (though I completely understand the hesitation of including a lyric about child abuse). But on a production front, I think Teddy knocked it out of the park. I really don’t like the demo, and the leaked Neff-U mix isn’t much better.

Take the original vocals (without whatever odd filter Teddy applied) and Teddy’s instrumentation and it’s borderline flawless.
 

AChanceToDance

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Messages
460
Points
63
The remix was my favorite for a long time (not the Throwback mix, they overdid the Billie Jean drums to the point where it sounds awful and out of place) but a song about a 15 year old girl leaving her home and becoming a prostitute shouldn't be this happy dance song, if they used the production on a song with a lighter theme it would've been fine. Again why I prefer Neff-U's version over it, he enhanced the song and still retained the somber sound from the demo.
 

SmoothGangsta

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
2,987
Points
113
Yeah, will never understand why they decided to change the meaning of the song and make it a super positive sounding track. Not using MJ's written lyrics for the bridge and writing new ones is also pretty dumb.
 

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
The remix was my favorite for a long time (not the Throwback mix, they overdid the Billie Jean drums to the point where it sounds awful and out of place) but a song about a 15 year old girl leaving her home and becoming a prostitute shouldn't be this happy dance song, if they used the production on a song with a lighter theme it would've been fine. Again why I prefer Neff-U's version over it, he enhanced the song and still retained the somber sound from the demo.
In fairness, several of MJ’s songs have dark themes coupled with upbeat production. I don’t think that hurts it, though I fully understand with disappointment that they stripped back its somber nature.
 

Hess

Proud Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
11,481
Points
113
Someone made a version of the song with the line - She's only fifteen - that version is great.


BUT - I really do like the album version. - 99 % of all people that hears the song will not know other versions, they will not know the line is missing and they will not know the bridge is not MJ's lyrics. - So they will be able to enjoy a great pop-song with great production.
 

dam2040

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
5,747
Points
113
They made a lot of mistakes, but Hollywood Tonight is a banger. If you take it for what it is, it’s probably the last authentic sounding MJ banger we’ve gotten.
 

Cprep20

The Bad Sessions
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
236
Points
28
Fresh off the heels of the A Place With No Name snippet that leaked and as popular as A Horse With No Name is that song should of been on the Michael Album. As should She Was Loving Me and Do You Know Where Your Children Are or We’ve Had Enough!

Nothing else but the inclusion of the Cascio tracks ruined what could of easily been a phenomenal project! The lies and deception plays a huge roll into why a lot of Michaels collaborators refuse to work with the estate.
 

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
I’m glad Chicago was held for Xscape. Had it been included on Michael, we’d have gotten the Cory Rooney remix, which in my opinion is absolutely terrible. I think Timbaland knocked it out of the park; it’s the definitive version, so far as my Spotify is concerned!
 

dam2040

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
5,747
Points
113
I’m glad Chicago was held for Xscape. Had it been included on Michael, we’d have gotten the Cory Rooney remix, which in my opinion is absolutely terrible. I think Timbaland knocked it out of the park; it’s the definitive version, so far as my Spotify is concerned!
All versions of Chicago absolutely suck apart from Timbaland, which is surprising to me as I think most of those songs from the reworked Xscape haven’t aged very well at all.
 

Hess

Proud Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
11,481
Points
113
I still like Xscape very much - but I listen more and more to the original versions.

Blue Gangsta, Xscape, Loving You and maybe Chicago is still very good in the temporized version IMO.
 

Hess

Proud Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
11,481
Points
113
But really - I do like most songs in both versions on Xscape. LNFSG is still fresh and good - and very often played on danish radio actually.

DYKWYCA is not good in the new version. - But I never liked that version. The original is fine though.
 

AChanceToDance

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Messages
460
Points
63
Gotta disagree with Xscape, Rodney Jerkins butchered the remix and made the song worse and the demo they went with was an outdated one. It's a song that I would've rather have be available only on leaked form.
 
Last edited:

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
Gotta disagree with Xscape, Rodney Jerkins butchered the remix and made the song worse and the demo they went with was an outdated one. It's a song that I would've rather have be available on leaked form.
I’m pretty sure the leaked demo and the released one are 99% the same, barring some small mixing differences.
 

AChanceToDance

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Messages
460
Points
63
I’m pretty sure the leaked demo and the released one are 99% the same, barring some small mixing differences.
The vocals on the leaked demo are clearer and the song sounds grittier, comparing it to the 1999 demo the 1999 demo sounds dull.
 

SmoothGangsta

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
2,987
Points
113
All the demos on Xscape sound like utter trash. The leaked version of Xscape sounds so much better. Don't really see how you can listen to both of them and say it's a small difference.
 

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
I mean on a production standpoint. The leaked version of “Xscape” isn’t much different than the released version, at least not to the extent of “Blue Gangsta.” The mixing is definitely different, because the released demos weren’t even mixed as far as I can tell.
 

Fuzball

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
1,332
Points
83
Can we agree on saying structure wise both versions are almost identical?
 

AlwaysThere

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
4,105
Points
113
To clarify, I think the released and leaked versions of “Xscape” are the same track on a fundamental level. The only differences are on a mixing standpoint; some instruments are louder on the released cut, and the overall mix lacks a bit of the punch compared to the leaked one, which could be the result of them taking whatever mix they found and running with it (which wouldn’t be surprising given the piss poor quality of the other demos). I don’t hear anything extensively different on a production standpoint.
 

Smooth72

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
921
Points
28
All the demos on Xscape sound like utter trash. The leaked version of Xscape sounds so much better. Don't really see how you can listen to both of them and say it's a small difference.
The demos sound like trash on purpose. They want you to think the modernized tracks are better. Believe it, why else would they sound like that? They could have just polished the demos and just released them. I would be surprised if they follow that format again. Not much in the way of replay value with the remixes. I usually listen to the leak versions anyway. That’s how MJ left them and they sound better.
 
Top