The Change in Michael's Message and Image After 'Thriller'

NatureCriminal7896

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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Michael claimed when he was different on stage and off stage. that's true because as child he was actually very depressed. he said all he did was to make his fans happy.

so it's possible half of the time Michael actually did things just to make his fans happy. i wouldn't say all the time but half of the time.
 

Alh21

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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Michael grabbing himself or stroking his body while he danced is not going to have any weird or traumatising effect on a child. His sensual dancing was nowhere near as suggestive as other stuff kids are exposed to. He just did what he felt in the moment. Just because you deem some of his dancing as not child-friendly that doesn't mean he didn't love children. It has nothing to do with it.

Exactly, I fully agree with you, I cant think of anything MJ did that would cause any trauma to any child, these days some parents seem to think its everyone else responsibility to look after their kids, its not I'm afraid, I watch very closely what my three year old grandchild watches and if I think its not suitable he wont watch it, its not difficult. I have never once watched any of Michaels videos and thought that they may not be appropriate, I've seen far worse tbh
 

Alh21

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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

No i never said i didn't like his dancing. his dancing never bother me only the part where's he touch himself. and his dangerous and history eras other than that still love him AS AN PERSON.

I am going to have to say that you are the only person I have ever heard say that about Michael, it is your opinion this is true and you are entitled to it but if you still watch his videos then I'm slightly confused as to why, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't watch things that caused me offence
 

mj_frenzy

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WannaScream;4270550 said:
It doesn't surprise me that Michael had it planned but I don't think the controversy was only for album sales. You can also look at it as being part of the point he was making and felt passionate about. The public reaction was already in the film with Bart watching the Panther dance on TV and Homer shouting at him to turn it off. Having the reaction in real life enabled him to use the graffiti which only further serves to emphasise the meaning in the film. It's a clever idea and he had some really genius moments.

What happened to the unseen version, was it destroyed?

wendijane;4270551 said:
Would it be ready for viewing in this day and age? would they ever release " that" version? its twenty years on ... times have changed ..

The controversy of his panther dance video was not only for increasing the sales of his ‘Dangerous’ album.

As I said, the controversy aimed also at increasing the sales of that album.

Michael Jackson wanted mainly to be again (with his comeback in terms of new music) in the focus of public attention, and the controversy by that panther dance video served perfectly that purpose, too.

Notice that he did a similar thing few years later, when he released the ‘HIStory’ video teaser (shot in Budapest) for increasing the sales of the ‘HIStory’ album, but first and foremost for creating big controversy around him again with that comeback in music.

He even admitted to Diane Sawyer that he wanted everybody’s attention with that ‘HIStory’ video teaser and he liked the fact that people fell into his trap (actually, the same strategy as with his panther dance video).

The unseen version of the panther dance video exists, but they are never going to release it.

Aside from being too shocking even for these days, also there is really no point in its release although many of his fans are desperate to watch it.
 

8701girl

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The unseen version of the panther dance video exists, but they are never going to release it.

Aside from being too shocking even for these days, also there is really no point in its release although many of his fans are desperately to watch it.

wish i could see the unseen version of it
 

NatureCriminal7896

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I never said i hated Michael dancing. i love his dancing. expect his the part he touch himself. i always did but while growing up i found it funny. you can still like someone but don't like the things they do. for example i like ice cream that's coated in chocolate that you can eat with your hands but don't like it went it melt all over your hands.
 
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MJ was a slave to the rythem and able to compleatly merge with music and becoming one with it.
When it had to turned out to look like (dirty) sexy dancing and grabing it crotch then it was suposed to be! This is true art and intense dedication!
But in all his dancing it was only a few seconds where he did something in his crotch area, people mainly want to talk about instead of the other many magical great hours in his life were his hand was never in his crotch area during his danceing...

Ah and to answer the question why MJ didn't some of this ( dirty) daring moves before bad is he was an Jehovas witness like the rest of his brothers he had to work with and it simply didn' t fit to the music he had to to express on stage before Bad including beat it because of its message.

Dirty very daring (sexual) danceing fit to many bad, dangerous, history (invincible) songs but not to off the wall, thriller, motown and most of the Jacksons songs!
There where mainly facile love songs he had to express on stage before.

Think about this...
 
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NatureCriminal7896

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If Michael wanted to"sexy dance. he could have. he just should been honest about it. most dancing is an work of art. while depends on what kind of dancing. either way also found his dancing, just dancing. (expect the touch part)

That's my opinion.
 

Alh21

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If Michael wanted to"sexy dance. he could have. he just should been honest about it. most dancing is an work of art. while depends on what kind of dancing. either way also found his dancing, just dancing. (expect the touch part)

That's my opinion.

I really don't understand this be honest about it bit, what did you want him to say?
 

WannaScream

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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

The unseen version of the panther dance video exists, but they are never going to release it.

Aside from being too shocking even for these days, also there is really no point in its release although many of his fans are desperate to watch it.

Why do you think it's too shocking? I think there is always point in releasing work, especially if it's what the artist originally intended it to be. I've seen another artist release an unseen video (that actually people said might have caused a stir at the time but it's fine in this day) and the fans love it.

wish i could see the unseen version of it

I would like to see this unseen video too.

Source?
Quotes that show that's it's not just PR or fan speculation?

Yeah I want to know the sources that show it exists and that it's too shocking.
 
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Anna

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Exactly, I fully agree with you, I cant think of anything MJ did that would cause any trauma to any child, these days some parents seem to think its everyone else responsibility to look after their kids, its not I'm afraid, I watch very closely what my three year old grandchild watches and if I think its not suitable he wont watch it, its not difficult. I have never once watched any of Michaels videos and thought that they may not be appropriate, I've seen far worse tbh
Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that his dancing was inappropriate for kids before this thread. And kids love Michael.

Be honest on how the way he was dancing. that's all.
Honest about what? It was self-evident by looking at it.
 
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For me its already enough things out there which MJ never wanted to be public and see the light of day.
I don't really need more of it esspecially when it comes to his artistic work and intimate things.
I know sometimes the MJ adiction can get a little bit toxic but try to respect his privacy and right to have secrets he never wanted to be revealed for everyone against some curirosity.
A release of this panther dance video is not good for Michael. The haters and the media would only use this for new attacs against him.
He need protectiion besides everything else!
 
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WannaScream

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For me its already enough things out there which MJ never wanted to be public and see the light of day.
I don't really need more of it especially when it comes to his artistic work and intimate things.
I know sometimes the MJ adiction can get a little bit toxic but try to to respect his privacy and right to have secrets he never wanted to be revealed for everyone.
A release of this panther dance video is not good for Michaek. The haters and the nedia would only use this for new attacts against him.
He need protectiion besides every everything else!

I must have the wrong impression here. I thought it was Michael that wanted it to be released? If he didn't then I agree.
 

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mj_frenzy;4270625 said:
The controversy of his panther dance video was not only for increasing the sales of his ‘Dangerous’ album.

As I said, the controversy aimed also at increasing the sales of that album.

Michael Jackson wanted mainly to be again (with his comeback in terms of new music) in the focus of public attention, and the controversy by that panther dance video served perfectly that purpose, too.

Notice that he did a similar thing few years later, when he released the ‘HIStory’ video teaser (shot in Budapest) for increasing the sales of the ‘HIStory’ album, but first and foremost for creating big controversy around him again with that comeback in music.

He even admitted to Diane Sawyer that he wanted everybody’s attention with that ‘HIStory’ video teaser and he liked the fact that people fell into his trap (actually, the same strategy as with his panther dance video).

The unseen version of the panther dance video exists, but they are never going to release it.

Aside from being too shocking even for these days, also there is really no point in its release although many of his fans are desperate to watch it.
I remember there was an edited and unedited version with and without the graffiti. Is there yet another version that never saw the daylight? Or are we talking about the unedited version? Because I've seen that one and it was released I think on some of the early Dangerous VHS or even was on MTV sometimes?

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
 

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I don't know what is meant to be in this unseen video that is so shocking in this day and age, where sex and violence do occur in music videos let alone film. I think the consideration of whether it should be released - given the attention atm - is a valid one. My views on posthumous releases vary but I recognise it's not my decision.
 
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NatureCriminal7896

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Stop attcking me you bullies! It's my oinpion and if you don't like it block me or don't write back. I worte alot comments on this thread. If you not lazy read them. I'm so frustrated with you people. I already told i'm a person with delays that make me view things differece and also misunderstand things. If you not getting or i'm not getting then leave it heck alone. By the way you all make feel uncomfortbale anyway i knew thier was some strange about you people.
 

Hudson112

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NatureCriminal7896;4270666 said:
Stop attcking me you bullies! It's my oinpion and if you don't like it block me or don't write back. I worte alot comments on this thread. If you not lazy read them. I'm so frustrated with you people. I already told i'm a person with delays that make me view things differece and also misunderstand things. If you not getting or i'm not getting then leave it heck alone. By the way you all make feel uncomfortbale anyway i knew thier was some strange about you people.
We’re not. We just disagree with your opinion. And it has nothing to do with your disability. We’re sorry for what you’re going through but this forum is open and equal to anybody, no matter their race, their sexuality, their disabilities or whatever. Anybody is allowed to say what they want to say, and that includes you but also anybody else who disagrees with you. It should be made clear, nobody is attacking you for your disability, we just disagree with your points of view, but we’re not trying to force you to change it, we’re just saying our piece. But if we made you feel like you were being targeted, we apologize.
 
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Anna

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Stop attcking me you bullies! It's my oinpion and if you don't like it block me or don't write back. I worte alot comments on this thread. If you not lazy read them. I'm so frustrated with you people. I already told i'm a person with delays that make me view things differece and also misunderstand things. If you not getting or i'm not getting then leave it heck alone. By the way you all make feel uncomfortbale anyway i knew thier was some strange about you people.
No one is attacking you or being a bully. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then don't participate in the thread.

No more drama.
 

Hess

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I think all people develope thru life...

What happened to MJ after the success of Thriller was intens. The Pepsi-accident. MJ got older, the world changed - and MJ had to follow it.

MJ shooting a man in SC is not at all MJ supporting violence - it's just a mafia-world - and the way it is made, the man flies into the wall - it's made funny and not violent at all...

HIStory is MJ angry... - after 1993 - I wonder why??

Invincible is MJ's OTW-2001-take... - with many gret songs.
 
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Yeah.. I have really exaggerated here in the case of the Black panther video.
The rest I simply wanted to say and express somewhere cause it had engaged me.
But it didn't fit here. Sorry.
 

mj_frenzy

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8701girl;4270627 said:
wish i could see the unseen version of it

Electro;4270628 said:
Source?
Quotes that show that's it's not just PR or fan speculation?

WannaScream;4270638 said:
Why do you think it's too shocking? I think there is always point in releasing work, especially if it's what the artist originally intended it to be. I've seen another artist release an unseen video (that actually people said might have caused a stir at the time but it's fine in this day) and the fans love it.

I would like to see this unseen video too.

Yeah I want to know the sources that show it exists and that it's too shocking.

WannaScream;4270645 said:
I don't know what is meant to be in this unseen video that is so shocking in this day and age, where sex and violence do occur in music videos let alone film. I think the consideration of whether it should be released - given the attention atm - is a valid one. My views on posthumous releases vary but I recognise it's not my decision.

According to several accounts from people who worked on the ‘Black Or White’ music video, the unseen version of the panther dance video still exists.

That unseen version, which actually consists of some additional shots, it has been generally described as footage of extreme, gratuitous violence and explicit sexuality on Michael Jackson’s part.

I would like to see that too, but at the same time I believe that is certainly not something that needs to get a release and in no way it would benefit his posthumous legacy.

Keep in mind that many parents were shocked by the panther dance video (both versions) and complained about it when it came out back then in 1991, many parents would react in the same way even these days if the unseen version of it gets a release.

Herrie;4270644 said:
I remember there was an edited and unedited version with and without the graffiti. Is there yet another version that never saw the daylight? Or are we talking about the unedited version? Because I've seen that one and it was released I think on some of the early Dangerous VHS or even was on MTV sometimes?

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

Apart from the unedited and edited version of the black panther video that both were released at that time, there is also a third version of it (the unseen one, which is extremely shocking and so far it has not seen the light of day).
 
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That the original Panther dance was much more extreme then what MJ wanted the public to see from does not surprise me.
He completly let himself go into this performance without thinking anything!
And when you do this esspecially when you feel such strong feelings like anger and hate it can have an extreme violent result.
But because it was during a video shoot, MJ could watch it all over again and decide what parts of this performance really ceptured what he wanted to present with and put everthing together as best as possible.
This is how art works. You do maaaany (also exessive) takes / trys and then tie them together to the best possible picture you can draw.
Great Art nearly never creats itself by chance in one take / try / moment without preparation.
It takes mainly a lot of hard work until its done.
No great artist would be great and unforgetable when he only had one take/ try for each of his works and than had to relase it!
There is a long process of exercises and decisons of humans behind it.
 
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83magic

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I am not bumping this thread to continue a discussion. it's so @JichaelMackson can see my views on the subject of Michael and his music post 'thriller' - which have not changed..
 
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Electro

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mj_frenzy;4270712 said:
According to several accounts from people who worked on the ‘Black Or White’ music video, the unseen version of the panther dance video still exists.

That unseen version, which actually consists of some additional shots, it has been generally described as footage of extreme, gratuitous violence and explicit sexuality on Michael Jackson’s part.

Apart from the unedited and edited version of the black panther video that both were released at that time, there is also a third version of it (the unseen one, which is extremely shocking and so far it has not seen the light of day).


I repeat:

Source?

Any quotes that show that it's not just based on exaggeration ... or PR ... or someone with blurry memory actually talking about the released long version, thinking that's rare (since the shortened version got the most TV plays) ... or based on your own or some trash authors horny fantasy?

Since you're such a big fan of juicy trash authors like Ian Halperin, your word of it being "extremely shocking" and "footage of extreme, gratuitous violence and explicit sexuality" is not really convincing.

Regarding the edited version (with graffiti on the windows)... the first time I saw this was two years later on the "Dangerous The Short Films" VHS release. Maybe TV stations in the USA had it before, but MTV Europe seems to have never received that updated version. When they showed the long version it was always the original no-graffiti version... at least up until the HIStory days. (I'm pretty sure about that because 1991-1997 I recorded it dozens of times).

But maybe you meant the shortened version, which was indeed released at the same time in 1991, and which was more suitable for the regular heavy rotation, skipping the excessively long outro with no music in it.


mj_frenzy;4270712 said:
Keep in mind that many parents were shocked by the panther dance video (both versions) and complained about it when it came out back then in 1991, ...

You're falling for the PR. It really wasn't a "shock" anywhere outside of the prude 1991-US-media bubble.
 
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mjfan05

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Slight tangent but I remember Vincent Paterson said he introduced the crotch grab to Michael who loved it so much that he made it hos own on the MJCast episode he was on. I do also believe that a lot of people are going around claiming credit for things because now they can and there is no other side to dispute them.
 

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I think this is one of the best threads we've had in a long time. Great varying opinions and a real mature discussion (for the most part). 83 magic I think you bring up some very interesting points. I however, do think that the progression to him being more edgier happened organically, especially with the advent of hip hop and other styles.
 
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