The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

SoS

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ScreenOrigami;4299856 said:
I’d like to add – and excuse my making another post for this – that I’m actually quite interested in discussing the facts around the homicide. I’m slowly working my way through all those CM trial videos, and after that I’ll look into the AEG trial as well. So, if there are unanswered questions or inconsistencies, I’m absolutely open to talking about those. But certainly not in any way that involves any “hoax theory”.

And I think that, when we keep telling people in regards to the CSA allegations to not believe the tabloids and look into the court transcripts and FBI files instead, we should do the same in this case. Meaning, analyze the facts as presented in the trial and other credible sources. Dr Oz is not a credible source for anything.

I doubt anyone researched through Dr Oz lol. This thread is about nuances that were noticed in the regular reporting with the exception of things some call a “hoax” which everyone here is offended by All that crazy stuff — including the fat guy etc.
One reason this thread got started is because unfortunately sone aspects look like a ruse of sorts IN SOME WAYS (“red herrings” of sorts) because of the “comedy of errors” mistakes throughout the entire homicide.

They won’t take the word “hoax” out though so we are burdened with having to remove the word from our stream of awareness when we discuss or at least we should but it’s getting to neither here nor there at this point.

I have a personal aversion to “messy” and with the thread title as-is it will attract a LOT of that in amid the discussion of the nuances so as I’m passing through I’m giving my opinion on it.. If the questions you see posted don’t make sense to you, this thread probably won’t help you very much if at all.

This thread gets less activity because it of course ends up being “messy”.

I think a lot of people wonder why it’s here but since it is, we check in here now and then.
 

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SoS;4299751 said:
I think the biggest oddity to me is Murray stating on Dr Oz that when he came back in the room it wasn’t the same person laying there (that’s odd) the oddest thing of all being that Dr Oz didn’t ask him what the sam hill he meant by that.

Any theories?


He meant to say position, not person.
That's pretty clear when you listen to the full segment of the interview, starting here at 11:50

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x67qcp8

But of course, anyone looking for hoax-confirmations will jump on that, ignoring the context.
 

Mikky Dee

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SoS;4299859 said:
I doubt anyone researched through Dr Oz lol. This thread is about nuances that were noticed in the regular reporting with the exception of things some call a “hoax” which everyone here is offended by All that crazy stuff — including the fat guy etc.
One reason this thread got started is because unfortunately sone aspects look like a ruse of sorts IN SOME WAYS (“red herrings” of sorts) because of the “comedy of errors” mistakes throughout the entire homicide.

They won’t take the word “hoax” out though so we are burdened with having to remove the word from our stream of awareness when we discuss or at least we should but it’s getting to neither here nor there at this point.

I have a personal aversion to “messy” and with the thread title as-is it will attract a LOT of that in amid the discussion of the nuances so as I’m passing through I’m giving my opinion on it.. If the questions you see posted don’t make sense to you, this thread probably won’t help you very much if at all.

This thread gets less activity because it of course ends up being “messy”.

I think a lot of people wonder why it’s here but since it is, we check in here now and then.

I really don't understand why you keep objecting to "Hoax Theory" being in the title. People who want to point out inconsistencies and things in general which, in their opinion, "don't add up" usually believe that Michael is not dead, but instead faked his death and is living somewhere, happy and well. Hence the term, "death hoax", or "hoax theory". An example, upthread was the questioning of why Murray didn't appear to know how to do CPR and why he didn't put Michael on the floor, etc. That questioning invariably comes from people who believe that Murray wasn't doing proper CPR because Michael wasn't dead, Murray was in on the hoax and he was helping Michael to escape later, by absconding from the ambulance, or doing a body switch in the helicopter and so forth. Similarly, someone asking why "alleged victim" was a term used in the jury verdict in Murray's trial (also upthread) are usually asking that, because they think it means that Michael wasn't a victim, because he wasn't dead. It's never just about an anomaly - for them, it leads them to their underlying belief that he is alive - all things, no matter what they are, point to that, in their eyes. Believe me....I have seen it ALL, since 2009.
 

Anna

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The title of this thread is fine. It's people entertaining the notion that Michael faked his death, thus a death hoax. If you think that any so-called "oddities" or "inconsistencies" could hold weight, that is what you are doing — engaging in the possibility of a hoax.

I'm not actually interested in participating in this abominable thread, so this will be my last post, aside from any required moderation.

Firstly, I've already explained why everything was "alleged" — they're not doubting that he died on that date, but it's whether he was killed/a crime was committed on that date, which also makes the date "alleged".
Secondly, the 911 operator was either not properly trained or just made a bad choice. There's nothing weird about that either. Unfortunately it's something that happens sometimes.
Third, I assume you're talking about the ambulance photo, since that was on the front pages everywhere. The photo was taken quickly through a darkened window of a moving vehicle. It would be more weird if it hadn't been edited.
And finally, given that Murray is a liar who spewed all kinds of crap to try and save himself, I don't see why you would take anything that came out of his mouth seriously.

I have consumed hundreds of hours of true crime content over the years. I watched the Murray murder trial and there were no red flags to me.
When people fake their death they have to do it in a way that involves the least amount of involvement by others as possible. Even if you disregard Michael's own family, you have the paramedics, doctors and nurses, coroners, funeral directors, bodyguards, and apparently lawyers — given you think the phrasing in the trial is dodgy. All of those people can't have been involved. That is US government level of control and resource. So ruling that out means there would have to have been a dead body conveniently on hand that looked exactly like Michael and unless the body was identical to Michael even down to the health conditions and scars he had, then the coroners had to at least have been in on it. How likely do you think any of that is? It's so ridiculous, it's like the fake Paul McCartney conspiracy theory.

There were literally photos of Michael's dead body. How anyone can not only disregard their sense of reason but also look at those photos and still think this isn't reality is just insane to me, and very sad. But hey, that's just me.
 

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OK, looks like this new discussion aims at speculating about an actual hoax in one form or another after all. Then I’m out as well. That’s disrespectful.

If anyone’s looking to talk about questions or facts that they think haven’t been properly addressed in the CM and AEG trials, that I’d be interested to talk about. But a couple of hours into the CM trial videos, I must say, it all looks pretty straightforward to me. The only question I really have so far is why CM was released after only 2 years when he never showed any sign of remorse.

But again, hoax theories are a clear nope from me.
 

mysterygirl7

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I really don't understand why you keep objecting to "Hoax Theory" being in the title. People who want to point out inconsistencies and things in general which, in their opinion, "don't add up" usually believe that Michael is not dead, but instead faked his death and is living somewhere, happy and well. Hence the term, "death hoax", or "hoax theory". An example, upthread was the questioning of why Murray didn't appear to know how to do CPR and why he didn't put Michael on the floor, etc. That questioning invariably comes from people who believe that Murray wasn't doing proper CPR because Michael wasn't dead, Murray was in on the hoax and he was helping Michael to escape later, by absconding from the ambulance, or doing a body switch in the helicopter and so forth. Similarly, someone asking why "alleged victim" was a term used in the jury verdict in Murray's trial (also upthread) are usually asking that, because they think it means that Michael wasn't a victim, because he wasn't dead. It's never just about an anomaly - for them, it leads them to their underlying belief that he is alive - all things, no matter what they are, point to that, in their eyes. Believe me....I have seen it ALL, since 2009.

Well, even Jermaine and La Toya fueled all of this.... so... come on, we have to discuss this - the security cameras were not recording... - and La Toya especially has said the weirdest things... it's a fact she has....
 

SoS

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Electro;4299861 said:
He meant to say position, not person.
That's pretty clear when you listen to the full segment of the interview, starting here at 11:50

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x67qcp8

But of course, anyone looking for hoax-confirmations will jump on that, ignoring the context.

Thank you for this rational explanation.

THIS is ALL I am looking for when I come to this thread.

1 down 99 to go.
Thanks again . A LOT of fans do not know this.

It didn’t occur to me to slow down and listen again.
 

SoS

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mysterygirl7;4299894 said:
Well, even Jermaine and La Toya fueled all of this.... so... come on, we have to discuss this - the security cameras were not recording... - and La Toya especially has said the weirdest things... it's a fact she has....

Excellent questions.

What could Latoya have meant by, “it’s all an illusion- watch the Illisionist”?

What did Joe mean by “there’s more”

What did Jermaine mean by, “this is not it”


Rebbe, Jermaine, Latoya and others have said that “more” will come out eluding to a “conspiracy “

Why did Latoya say that RP was in the house that night”?

Why did they grill Paris about Grace in MJ’s bed if Grace wasn’t even around?

What makes questions like these cause people to say, “he died let him go”?
 

SoS

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Mikky Dee;4299864 said:
I really don't understand why you keep objecting to "Hoax Theory" being in the title. People who want to point out inconsistencies and things in general which, in their opinion, "don't add up" usually believe that Michael is not dead, but instead faked his death and is living somewhere, happy and well. Hence the term, "death hoax", or "hoax theory". An example, upthread was the questioning of why Murray didn't appear to know how to do CPR and why he didn't put Michael on the floor, etc. That questioning invariably comes from people who believe that Murray wasn't doing proper CPR because Michael wasn't dead, Murray was in on the hoax and he was helping Michael to escape later, by absconding from the ambulance, or doing a body switch in the helicopter and so forth. Similarly, someone asking why "alleged victim" was a term used in the jury verdict in Murray's trial (also upthread) are usually asking that, because they think it means that Michael wasn't a victim, because he wasn't dead. It's never just about an anomaly - for them, it leads them to their underlying belief that he is alive - all things, no matter what they are, point to that, in their eyes. Believe me....I have seen it ALL, since 2009.

Re bolded

2 reasons

Because of the connotation of the word, “hoax” and the definition:

hoax
/hōks/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a humorous or malicious deception.

And because it offends a LOT of fans.

They say it over and over and over and over...”MJ would never...”
 
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Antwort

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Earlier today, I was watching the Liberian Girl video on tele and, funnily enough, I was reminded of this thread. The moment that struck me was they sayin' he's wearing disguises line. At which point, I thought to my silly self - what if 6/25 was his ultimate disguise??? What if them hoax/believers people, whatever you wanna call 'em, aren't that off the wall, after all?

Can't belive this thread is this long actually, almost 250 pages. I've never really paid attention to it and it's the first post I'm making in here. I think plenty of the issues raised by the hoax-believing folks can be dismissed, not to mention the silly videos that used to populate the internet with creepy, mysterious soundtrack and very little meaningful content. Obviously, logic and reason, as well as the trials that took place in the meantime, only point to one conclusion - Michael is gone. Especially after all of the time that has passed. Was it Teddy Riley or Akon that said back in the day that Michael would return in 2/3 years?

Still, I can't help but have sympathy for the extremely few folks who believe this stuff still. Although some might have been attracted by the detective game aspect of it all, I do think plenty were genuinly interested in Michael's well being. However far fetched it may seem, it is sweet to think that the man may have elluded death and is still very much around. It wouldn't be the first time the media got a most major story about Michael spectacularly wrong. And it doesn't get any bigger really than the stark difference between life and death, but that's beyond the point.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the whole theory based on the presumption that Michael wouldn't do this or that to the fans, to the public, to the family, to whomever. Just because he was a most generous, kind and sensitive soul, doesn't mean he was perfect. Furthermore, the man might've had quite legitimate reasons for which to get away and stay away.

I suppose I am a hoax-agnostic of sorts. It would indeed be incredible and beyond exhilarating if he were still alive. Unfortunately, I cannot say that I've been presented with any definitive proof of it, but merely circumstancial and most inconclusive 'evidence'. In any case, his safety, health and [surreal] happiness have always been my greatest concerns and he will always be in my prayers, irrespective of his.....location, let us call it.


Let it be Christmas everywhere
Be God's glow
O come, desire of nations, come

Du8-Ctom-UYAAZiy-H.jpg
 
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Nonexistant07

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I used to believe he was killed but I've kinda started thinking he might be alive but is there anyone I can legitimately discuss with rather than having it cut short with "He's dead move on"? as I said I used to think so but I wrote down my own observations, if anyone here is still active about this. I'm not here to convince people I'm just curious about having actual discussion.
 

femi

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I used to believe he was killed but I've kinda started thinking he might be alive but is there anyone I can legitimately discuss with rather than having it cut short with "He's dead move on"? as I said I used to think so but I wrote down my own observations, if anyone here is still active about this. I'm not here to convince people I'm just curious about having actual discussion.
Oh wow it's totally the opposite for me, I used to believe he was still alive and just hiding somewhere but I have come to terms that he is just officially dead. As for right now, I believe he's passed but I feel uncertain as well. There is a possibility that he might still be somewhere out there. Even though many has said, he wouldn't do this to his family, fans and etc. I could believe he would take certain lengths like that to finally hide and find his peace. But at the same time also, he's Michael Jackson, people keep tabs and watches on him, they know his every move and where he is. The media and sources would easily know where he's at. I think it would've been hard if Michael actually tried to fake his death. I'm feeling mixed about this. I use to believe all these hoaxes like Pearl Jr., the validity in his middle name, if it's Joe or Joseph (But I think as well, MJ probably kept it short on some documents. I think it's Joseph but MJ most likely used Joe on his documents. It's still a mystery on that part.) I'm curious to hear your take on this situation.
 
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Hiker

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I am sorry, but this feels wishful thinking. Oh, how I wish he is alive. But knowing how much he wanted to make a come back, how much he loved his family, it seems unlikely that he would choose to go away in oblivion forever. It would have been much easier to just stay in Ireland or move to some remote place away from limelight with his kids.
 

M.Kingsley

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Re: The hoax site...



ur right. They are hiding the truth. We all know MJ was KILLED but his fans don’t give damn about it and yet those fans are always busy bashing mj's family and i hate that.

To be honest with you some fans are even calling katherine jackson a gold digger. It upsets me a lot. After all she gave birth to him. How dare they?!
Who calls Catherine a gold digger? That's horrid ! My god. :(
 

M.Kingsley

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I don't belive Michael is alive. I wish sometimes I did to get the pain to go away. I have watched a lot of their arguments though to understand and it was some weird things that I can see how they can see as proof that he is alive when they want him to be. Mj was definitely killed and I just want the ones responsible to get their punishment. It's also been a long time now. What I understand they think he is going to come back. Seem its getting a bit to late for that.
 

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I used to believe he was killed but I've kinda started thinking he might be alive but is there anyone I can legitimately discuss with rather than having it cut short with "He's dead move on"? as I said I used to think so but I wrote down my own observations, if anyone here is still active about this. I'm not here to convince people I'm just curious about having actual discussion.
I recently became interested in him again after being away for a while then Instagram recently reminded me of him again, so I’ve been seeing the hoax on tiktok lately after my Gen Z employee told me about it. (Gen Z loves MJ, I LOVE that!!) I do understand feeling comfort in the thought he’s living in peace somewhere, but he would never truly abandon his children, they were his everything. After Conrad Murray was on trial and the court documents were available to the public, I was too heartbroken to really research it at the time, but I decided to dig into it a few days ago and the autopsy report with photos. It was heartbreaking, but also very comforting that he’s not suffering in his earthly body anymore. It’s amazing what stress does to the body. When he passed I didn’t understand the magnitude of his suffering from painkillers, until I recently had an employee who had recovered from addiction and I learned about the side effects and symptoms. Now looking back at his death scene, it was clear how much he was suffering, and now he’s not anymore, and that gives me comfort. I will say, don’t look up the photos until you’re ready, but it’s definitely him.
 

Nonexistant07

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I recently became interested in him again after being away for a while then Instagram recently reminded me of him again, so I’ve been seeing the hoax on tiktok lately after my Gen Z employee told me about it. (Gen Z loves MJ, I LOVE that!!) I do understand feeling comfort in the thought he’s living in peace somewhere, but he would never truly abandon his children, they were his everything. After Conrad Murray was on trial and the court documents were available to the public, I was too heartbroken to really research it at the time, but I decided to dig into it a few days ago and the autopsy report with photos. It was heartbreaking, but also very comforting that he’s not suffering in his earthly body anymore. It’s amazing what stress does to the body. When he passed I didn’t understand the magnitude of his suffering from painkillers, until I recently had an employee who had recovered from addiction and I learned about the side effects and symptoms. Now looking back at his death scene, it was clear how much he was suffering, and now he’s not anymore, and that gives me comfort. I will say, don’t look up the photos until you’re ready, but it’s definitely him.
I will admit I had not read the autopsy report until now and I am going through it while typing this reponse. I also recently read the q&a of the dr shafer on the main page of this site, and see it confirmed in autopsy and find it incredibly odd that murray would keep no record of something so incredibly experimental. And it's true that while the report mentions sparse hair and a wig, there's no description of the scalp burn scar... it says the body was 69 inches which is 5ft 7.5, but mike was 5'9"... why does the autopsy mention so many puncture wounds? on the knee and ankle?
This is interesting. there is a description of "discoloration resembling a tattoo" on the scalp. listed under tattoos, not scars. to me implies it was possibly tattooed there to make the body more convincing, yet it's not listed as a scar, but a tattoo.
er... when a body dies, it expels the bowels and bladder as all muscle relax, but this body had 550 grams of urine in the bladder? uhhhh
farther down adds again no scalp abnormalities.
even farther down in the details under height that number looks like a 6... um.
I might need a link or guide if there are more than the 2 photos i was able to find.

I'd also like to mention that I was far more content when I had believed him passed, at peace, and done my mourning. this is recent for me that I've started looking more into it and have altered opinions.
 

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I will admit I had not read the autopsy report until now and I am going through it while typing this reponse. I also recently read the q&a of the dr shafer on the main page of this site, and see it confirmed in autopsy and find it incredibly odd that murray would keep no record of something so incredibly experimental. And it's true that while the report mentions sparse hair and a wig, there's no description of the scalp burn scar... it says the body was 69 inches which is 5ft 7.5, but mike was 5'9"... why does the autopsy mention so many puncture wounds? on the knee and ankle?
This is interesting. there is a description of "discoloration resembling a tattoo" on the scalp. listed under tattoos, not scars. to me implies it was possibly tattooed there to make the body more convincing, yet it's not listed as a scar, but a tattoo.
er... when a body dies, it expels the bowels and bladder as all muscle relax, but this body had 550 grams of urine in the bladder? uhhhh
farther down adds again no scalp abnormalities.
even farther down in the details under height that number looks like a 6... um.
I might need a link or guide if there are more than the 2 photos i was able to find.

I'd also like to mention that I was far more content when I had believed him passed, at peace, and done my mourning. this is recent for me that I've started looking more into it and have altered opinions.
That’s interesting about the bladder, I didn’t even think of the muscles relaxing! When I was reading it I thought oh he was on Flomax and had trouble going to the bathroom…
As far as the tattoo goes, I was pretty sure he got his edges tattooed on one side to mimic a normal hairline? But I’m not sure since the burn was on the back of his head.
I’ve entertained the thought that if he did fake his death, what if his kids were in on it and know where he is? That’s the only way I could be okay with the theory :)
 

Richard76

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so mj is alive? coz i think its really weird. nobody seen his body after his death. nobody. also this fake photos... thats strange. but also its really strange that mj could betray everybody (fans, family and so on) just to faken his death.
 

Nonexistant07

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That’s interesting about the bladder, I didn’t even think of the muscles relaxing! When I was reading it I thought oh he was on Flomax and had trouble going to the bathroom…
As far as the tattoo goes, I was pretty sure he got his edges tattooed on one side to mimic a normal hairline? But I’m not sure since the burn was on the back of his head.
I’ve entertained the thought that if he did fake his death, what if his kids were in on it and know where he is? That’s the only way I could be okay with the theory :)
Of course his kids were in on it. from what I can tell I think most of his immediate family aka his kids, parents, and closest siblings. I think latoya was probably one of the last to know because first she said he was murdered but then said "Watch the illusionist" but yes i'm 100% sure his family knows as well as a few others.

so mj is alive? coz i think its really weird. nobody seen his body after his death. nobody. also this fake photos... thats strange. but also its really strange that mj could betray everybody (fans, family and so on) just to faken his death.
as I said, I'm positive his family knows, and I'm pretty sure he did try to leave hints for fans that looked into it, I mean the first posthumous album does say "I live" on the lip, but the media was so hyperfocused on him that I think there would have really been the only way for him to actually get away would be to tell the media he was dead.
 
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M.Kingsley

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What real fans are trashing his family? Some ppl think that he is still alive. It is not an insult. It might be because it is easier than to face the grief...or there is just alot of weird things. Nobody is saying anything bad about it if he did fake his death.. Either what you belive you can still be a fan.

Thinking he is alive and questioning if his family is "in on it" is also not a insult towards his family... I think that's not what they think. IF he was alive don't think he would hurt his family so badly by having them thinking he was dead.

I don't know what I belive to be honest. I am mourning him. I miss him. It hurts everyday.. 💔... I can admit that it is quite a bit of weirdness around his death that is unexplained. I am furious about the lack of justice. That kills me.. :(..

Either way!
Love ppl!!
 
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M.Kingsley

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so mj is alive? coz i think its really weird. nobody seen his body after his death. nobody. also this fake photos... thats strange. but also its really strange that mj could betray everybody (fans, family and so on) just to faken his death.
I don't feel he bertayed his fans by faking his death IF he did. He had a hard life. He felt threatened to his life. Maybe he thought the tour would kill him. Either way I do not see how it is betrayal ...
I think some ppl think he at least was leaving clues to his fans....

That's just what I heard....I obviously don't know... don't know what I belive either.
 
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SoS

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I used to believe he was killed but I've kinda started thinking he might be alive but is there anyone I can legitimately discuss with rather than having it cut short with "He's dead move on"? as I said I used to think so but I wrote down my own observations, if anyone here is still active about this. I'm not here to convince people I'm just curious about having actual discussion.
It’s upsetting to me because it’s like with Covid it is outrageously unfair for anyone to discredit anyone else’s perception.

I just don’t see this being this complex for something as simple as death.

PM me if you want someone to process it all with as it is a lot to process and I don’t tire of the topic too fast. It’s interesting for sure.
 
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Antwort

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Of course his kids were in on it. from what I can tell I think most of his immediate family aka his kids, parents, and closest siblings. I think latoya was probably one of the last to know because first she said he was murdered but then said "Watch the illusionist" but yes i'm 100% sure his family knows as well as a few others.


as I said, I'm positive his family knows, and I'm pretty sure he did try to leave hints for fans that looked into it, I mean the first posthumous album does say "I live" on the lip, but the media was so hyperfocused on him that I think there would have really been the only way for him to actually get away would be to tell the media he was dead.

As much as I resent the media for what they did to him, I must say that I've always found this argument somewhat problematic - the whole idea that he had to fake his death just to hide from the friggin' paparazzi. After all, prior to June 2009 he was more than capable of stayin' off the radar for months/even years on end. When he wanted to, he could be more than discreet. Therefore, from this perspective, I don't really see why he would bother himself, and potentially many others, with such a gargantual task, as the hoax would have to be.

However, what is quite true is that he was hounded by the media and suffered terribly because of the magnifying glass they put on all them sordid lies. Not to mention that he did grow up in front of the entire world and spent more decades in the limelight than probably anyone else, at an unparalleled level of intensity, both it in terms of admiration and inhuman suffering caused by the hate and envy of evil people.

Given all that, one could hardly blame him if he needed not only a break, but to completely leave behind that entire universe. But in that case, if what he was searching for was a fame-free existence, there would be no need for so-called clues for fans and the raising of expectations about BAMs and what not. I still remember the countless ocassions when all kinds of 'insiders' offered dates about Michael's 'return'. Obviously, they were all quite wrong. Goes to show how much they 'knew'...........

Btw of 'getting away', I don't know if what I'm about to post has been discussed already. As I said, I haven't really read this thread properly, but I know in other corners of MJJC people were really into song interpretation in order to try and decipher the happenings in Michael's life *throws a quick 😉 at SoS*

Viewed from the perspective of the hoax, a couple of songs are quite interesting - one released long before 2009 and another 5 years after. Well, the truth is that Xscape had leaked long before. I'm not sure if it was in 2002/3, but I certainly remember finding it very cool at the time. In hindsight, and interpreted through the lens of the hoax, it becomes even more intriguing.


Everywhere I turn, no matter where I look
The system's in control, it's all ran by the book
I've got to get away so I can free my mind
Xscape is what I need
From the electric eyes

No matter where I am, I see my face around
They print lies on my name, and push from town to town
Don't have a place to run, but there's no need to hide
I've got to find a place
So I won't hide away


Xscape, got to get away from a system loose in the world today


Interesting lyrics, right? If I'd have to guess, I would say that hiding in plain sight would make it all even more exciting, especially for someone as playful as Michael. Still, that one-line bridge When I go, this problem world won't bother me no more hurts really badly when viewed from a non-hoax angle.

Another highly interesting tune is the duet with Paul McCartney, The man. Because of a couple of magical words inside of its lyrics, certain conspiracy-prone people thought its inclusion in the memorial on July 7th 2009 as more than hoaxy. I'm not entirely sure about that, but I gotta grant the believers that it was indeed a rather odd choice for the occasion. It could, of course, be easily dismissed as just a way of communicating that Michael would live on, beyond time and space, through his songs and his art. This would be the reasonable, logical interpretation. Still, the lyrics to the song do sound somehow prophetic.......

There's a man
Who plays the game of life so well
There's such a man
His thoughts you can never tell
And it's just the way he thought it would be
'Cause the day has come for him to be free
Then he laughs, he kicks and rolls up his sleeves
I'm alive and I'm here forever
This is the man

There's a man
Everybody thought they knew

There's such a man
He's not like me and you
And it's just the way she thought it would be
As he says, something has happened to me
Then he laughs, he kicks and rolls up his sleeves
I'm alive and I'm here forever
This is the man


I don't feel he bertayed his fans by faking his death IF he did. He had a hard life. He felt threatened to his life. Maybe he thought the tour would kill him. Either way I do not see how it is betrayal ...
I think some ppl think he at least was leaving clues to his fans....

That's just what I heard....I obviously don't know... don't know what I belive either.

Absolutey agree with you. I don't think fans should feel betrayed IF he did fake his death, which is, most naturally, a huge assumption. If he actually did that, I would think that he HAD to do it for quite legitimate reasons, possibly having to do with the system loose in the world back then and today.

In any case, whatever the truth may be, which we may never actually know, we can only hope and pray that Michael, at least in spirit, if not otherwise, is doin' well. If alive, he should be thriving and enjoying the decades the locusts have taken from him. If not, he should be resting in the Lord's peace.

One thing's for sure though - The man really is a smooth number, irrespective of its hoax relevance or lack thereof.

 

SoS

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As much as I resent the media for what they did to him, I must say that I've always found this argument somewhat problematic - the whole idea that he had to fake his death just to hide from the friggin' paparazzi. After all, prior to June 2009 he was more than capable of stayin' off the radar for months/even years on end. When he wanted to, he could be more than discreet. Therefore, from this perspective, I don't really see why he would bother himself, and potentially many others, with such a gargantual task, as the hoax would have to be.

However, what is quite true is that he was hounded by the media and suffered terribly because of the magnifying glass they put on all them sordid lies. Not to mention that he did grow up in front of the entire world and spent more decades in the limelight than probably anyone else, at an unparalleled level of intensity, both it in terms of admiration and inhuman suffering caused by the hate and envy of evil people.

Given all that, one could hardly blame him if he needed not only a break, but to completely leave behind that entire universe. But in that case, if what he was searching for was a fame-free existence, there would be no need for so-called clues for fans and the raising of expectations about BAMs and what not. I still remember the countless ocassions when all kinds of 'insiders' offered dates about Michael's 'return'. Obviously, they were all quite wrong. Goes to show how much they 'knew'...........

Btw of 'getting away', I don't know if what I'm about to post has been discussed already. As I said, I haven't really read this thread properly, but I know in other corners of MJJC people were really into song interpretation in order to try and decipher the happenings in Michael's life *throws a quick 😉 at SoS*

Viewed from the perspective of the hoax, a couple of songs are quite interesting - one released long before 2009 and another 5 years after. Well, the truth is that Xscape had leaked long before. I'm not sure if it was in 2002/3, but I certainly remember finding it very cool at the time. In hindsight, and interpreted through the lens of the hoax, it becomes even more intriguing.


Everywhere I turn, no matter where I look
The system's in control, it's all ran by the book
I've got to get away so I can free my mind
Xscape is what I need
From the electric eyes

No matter where I am, I see my face around
They print lies on my name, and push from town to town
Don't have a place to run, but there's no need to hide
I've got to find a place
So I won't hide away


Xscape, got to get away from a system loose in the world today


Interesting lyrics, right? If I'd have to guess, I would say that hiding in plain sight would make it all even more exciting, especially for someone as playful as Michael. Still, that one-line bridge When I go, this problem world won't bother me no more hurts really badly when viewed from a non-hoax angle.

Another highly interesting tune is the duet with Paul McCartney, The man. Because of a couple of magical words inside of its lyrics, certain conspiracy-prone people thought its inclusion in the memorial on July 7th 2009 as more than hoaxy. I'm not entirely sure about that, but I gotta grant the believers that it was indeed a rather odd choice for the occasion. It could, of course, be easily dismissed as just a way of communicating that Michael would live on, beyond time and space, through his songs and his art. This would be the reasonable, logical interpretation. Still, the lyrics to the song do sound somehow prophetic.......

There's a man
Who plays the game of life so well
There's such a man
His thoughts you can never tell
And it's just the way he thought it would be
'Cause the day has come for him to be free
Then he laughs, he kicks and rolls up his sleeves
I'm alive and I'm here forever
This is the man

There's a man
Everybody thought they knew

There's such a man
He's not like me and you
And it's just the way she thought it would be
As he says, something has happened to me
Then he laughs, he kicks and rolls up his sleeves
I'm alive and I'm here forever
This is the man




Absolutey agree with you. I don't think fans should feel betrayed IF he did fake his death, which is, most naturally, a huge assumption. If he actually did that, I would think that he HAD to do it for quite legitimate reasons, possibly having to do with the system loose in the world back then and today.

In any case, whatever the truth may be, which we may never actually know, we can only hope and pray that Michael, at least in spirit, if not otherwise, is doin' well. If alive, he should be thriving and enjoying the decades the locusts have taken from him. If not, he should be resting in the Lord's peace.

One thing's for sure though - The man really is a smooth number, irrespective of its hoax relevance or lack thereof.

Nice posts!

Yes I too found those songs quite peculiar as well as the first posthumous release, Place With [out] No Name

I guess my main concern at this point would be how life would be for him if he has to be in hiding and being even more dependent on the crew around him than ever before. That’s potentially a lot of leverage (power) others still would have over him seems to me unless he’s mastered the art of living incognito independent of others but then could Michael Jackson actually live incognito without the constant attention he knew most of his life? Such dopamine rushes could have even become addictive and whatever else he constantly had an over abundance of, his whole life.

It’s hard to imagine a totally different paradigm for him to live life from. Ordinary life might would get boring fast.

I hope if he is free that he is free indeed and also can enjoy his freedom. I’d imagine for MJ being free for the first time might would be like a fish growing feet and walking for the first time.

I’d imagine It might would be quite a struggle for a while at first.
 

mjprince1976

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I don't think he is alive, he is in heaven.

But if he was, I would not blame him, but admire him as he would at least be at peace now being anomymous and escaping the tabloids, leaches, assclowns and other crap that dogged the 2nd half of his life.

If he is dead RIP and alive - Good on him!
 

M.Kingsley

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Joined
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Another highly interesting tune is the duet with Paul McCartney, The man. Because of a couple of magical words inside of its lyrics, certain conspiracy-prone people thought its inclusion in the memorial on July 7th 2009 as more than hoaxy. I'm not entirely sure about that, but I gotta grant the believers that it was indeed a rather odd choice for the occasion. It could, of course, be easily dismissed as just a way of communicating that Michael would live on, beyond time and space, through his songs and his art. This would be the reasonable, logical interpretation. Still, the lyrics to the song do sound somehow prophetic.......
A lot was interesting during the memorial.
The first song choice: "soon and very soon we are going to see the king "... are we now???
The song SMILE performed by Jermaine. He changed the lyrics I the song. It is suppose to be "Light up your face with gladness, hide every trace of sadess"... what did jermaine sing. Ha sang "Light up your face with SADNESS, hide every trace of GLADNESS"... Really? Are you putting on a sad face jermaine? ;)
A picture for backdrop was a picture from Liberian girl, where mj is behind the camera (in the video he was hidden, directing behind the scenes).
During the song "will you be there in the end" when you hear Michaels "speech" in the end of the song. You know "in our darkest hour, I my deepest despair...".. at one point he says "in my anguish and my pain".. at the memorial I think the quality of the recording seem quite bad and also he said PAINS.. not pain. I have tried to find a recording of him saying pains instead of pain. But without success. Anyone else? So what was this recording. Or was it actually live? 😅

Either way, I don't know what I belive... but fact is there is ALOT of things that does not add up in his death. Coincidents? Maybe.. very many.. still very interesting.

And it's OK to think either way. I get sad sometimes when ppl treat each other badly because they are divided in this issue. Either way that's not what Michael would have wanted. Let everyone have their own opinion and if you don't belive, fine... but I don't think it's weird that some belive because of all the weirdness in the case.

Ĺ.O.V.E
 
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Hess

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Messages
11,406
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He is 100 % dead. If you wanna find clues and things that "dont add up" - you can find them anywhere.

I can understand that it's hard to accept that MJ died the way he did and just before TII - but that's how it is.
 

mysterygirl7

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Messages
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over the rainbow...
A lot was interesting during the memorial.
The first song choice: "soon and very soon we are going to see the king "... are we now???
The song SMILE performed by Jermaine. He changed the lyrics I the song. It is suppose to be "Light up your face with gladness, hide every trace of sadess"... what did jermaine sing. Ha sang "Light up your face with SADNESS, hide every trace of GLADNESS"... Really? Are you putting on a sad face jermaine? ;)
A picture for backdrop was a picture from Liberian girl, where mj is behind the camera (in the video he was hidden, directing behind the scenes).
During the song "will you be there in the end" when you hear Michaels "speech" in the end of the song. You know "in our darkest hour, I my deepest despair...".. at one point he says "in my anguish and my pain".. at the memorial I think the quality of the recording seem quite bad and also he said PAINS.. not pain. I have tried to find a recording of him saying pains instead of pain. But without success. Anyone else? So what was this recording. Or was it actually live? 😅

Either way, I don't know what I belive... but fact is there is ALOT of things that does not add up in his death. Coincidents? Maybe.. very many.. still very interesting.

And it's OK to think either way. I get sad sometimes when ppl treat each other badly because they are divided in this issue. Either way that's not what Michael would have wanted. Let everyone have their own opinion and if you don't belive, fine... but I don't think it's weird that some belive because of all the weirdness in the case.

Ĺ.O.V.E
Jermaine also said Airport instead of hospital in an interview… he has said some weird stuff….
 
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