The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

SoS

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.Thanks for these links are very helpful to this discuss.

Obviously it doesn’t answer the simple question as to what Murray meant by what he said.

The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?
 
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ScreenOrigami

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SoS;4299803 said:
.Thanks for these links are very helpful to this discuss.

Obviously it doesn’t answer the simple question as to what Murray meant by what he said.

The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?

Because it’s trash TV. There’s nothing more to it. They invite people with ridiculous stories to sell their advertising slots. That’s the whole idea. They don’t care who claims what and why, as long as it makes them money.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?

I don't know. everyone has their own opinions. while i don't agree everything dr. oz says. i do agree with somethings he says not about this case though....
 

mysterygirl7

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SoS;4299751 said:
Absolutely. We didn’t name the thread, “Hoax Theories...” for goodness sake. Of course people are sensitive to that word, I know I am.. but it doesn’t stop me from being able to discuss everything else about this crazy mystery.

They fix it where people can’t discuss any “inconsistencies” or anything without some knee-jerk responder to the word “hoax” icing up with some version of “he died” like everyone is here just for cramps and giggles.
and treat us like it’s our fault that all the negativity is distracting.

On another note , when is someone going to address my comment about the date is not “alleged” and that photo shopped picture on the covers of newspapers all around the world... the 911 operator acting like it makes sense for a non-breathing patient to be in the care of a “higher authority “ who isn’t properly performing CPR. “Call us back if you need anything else”. nobody has any theories I guess.

I realize it’s a mystery to everyone really - it is quite an oddity.

I think the biggest oddity to me is Murray stating on Dr Oz that when he came back in the room it wasn’t the same person laying there (that’s odd) the oddest thing of all being that Dr Oz didn’t ask him what the sam hill he meant by that.

Any theories?

I wonder what is each person’s biggest “oddity”?

No doubt in my mind that every honest fan has at least one...even if they completely concluded that MJ unfortunately is completely 100% dead.

What? Did he really say that??? And dr. Oz just let him say it, without asking what he meant?
 

SoS

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mysterygirl7;4299818 said:
What? Did he really say that??? And dr. Oz just let him say it, without asking what he meant?

Yes. Even on the trashiest of talk shows the most outrageous statements are the statements they address, for sensationalism purposes and ratings if nothing else.

Does anyone know (heard) anything about the choice for the 80’s and early 90s motif of the memorial and funeral?

Since then the family has released numerous wonderful (non-performance-related) pics of MJ taken of him in very recent times.
 

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I may be a bit slow today, but can someone explain to me in a way that’s easy to understand for someone who has only been a fan for about a year now, what this discussion is all about? What are you guys trying to prove, if anything?
 

SoS

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ScreenOrigami;4299847 said:
I may be a bit slow today, but can someone explain to me in a way that’s easy to understand for someone who has only been a fan for about a year now, what this discussion is all about? What are you guys trying to prove, if anything?

You’re not too slow. It’s not to prove anything except the most plausible possibilities of what is not explained through the facts as they have been presented.

A lot of people are not as interested as others to discuss the odd circumstances surrounding the death of our fave, (a lot are understandably offended by the awful term “hoax” which in 2009 appeared to have been the situation in the eyes of a subset of fans when this thread was created) ) so this thread is here for those who ARE interested in:Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations

SENSIBLY.

I don’t come here normally because the discussion became stagnant likely because nobody appreciates the word, “hoax”.

I’m guessing the thread will close at some point for that reason.

sorry - can’t unbolt from copying part of the thread title


 
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ScreenOrigami

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I still don’t get it. Why do you want to discuss the circumstances of his death specifically in a thread about the death hoax? If you go back to page one, that’s what this thread is. Why not discuss in a different thread? I see people on Twitter talking about that wild hoax theory, and from what I gather it involves some fat guy in a burger restaurant pretending to be MJ in a fat suit or something. That’s ridiculous, and I don’t see how a serious discussion about the death circumstances is supposed to flourish in this environment.
 

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I’d like to add – and excuse my making another post for this – that I’m actually quite interested in discussing the facts around the homicide. I’m slowly working my way through all those CM trial videos, and after that I’ll look into the AEG trial as well. So, if there are unanswered questions or inconsistencies, I’m absolutely open to talking about those. But certainly not in any way that involves any “hoax theory”.

And I think that, when we keep telling people in regards to the CSA allegations to not believe the tabloids and look into the court transcripts and FBI files instead, we should do the same in this case. Meaning, analyze the facts as presented in the trial and other credible sources. Dr Oz is not a credible source for anything.
 

SoS

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ScreenOrigami;4299852 said:
I still don’t get it. Why do you want to discuss the circumstances of his death specifically in a thread about the death hoax? If you go back to page one, that’s what this thread is. Why not discuss in a different thread? I see people on Twitter talking about that wild hoax theory, and from what I gather it involves some fat guy in a burger restaurant pretending to be MJ in a fat suit or something. That’s ridiculous, and I don’t see how a serious discussion about the death circumstances is supposed to flourish in this environment.
. All of that fat guy talk etc is the whole reason such a serious discussion can’t flourish in this environment due to the word “hoax” which opens the way for every unimaginable ridiculousness being included with errors inconsistencies and observations where all the nuances can be discussed. I have not seen a thread that disses nuances except this one. If you know of another please post a link.
 

SoS

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ScreenOrigami;4299856 said:
I’d like to add – and excuse my making another post for this – that I’m actually quite interested in discussing the facts around the homicide. I’m slowly working my way through all those CM trial videos, and after that I’ll look into the AEG trial as well. So, if there are unanswered questions or inconsistencies, I’m absolutely open to talking about those. But certainly not in any way that involves any “hoax theory”.

And I think that, when we keep telling people in regards to the CSA allegations to not believe the tabloids and look into the court transcripts and FBI files instead, we should do the same in this case. Meaning, analyze the facts as presented in the trial and other credible sources. Dr Oz is not a credible source for anything.

I doubt anyone researched through Dr Oz lol. This thread is about nuances that were noticed in the regular reporting with the exception of things some call a “hoax” which everyone here is offended by All that crazy stuff — including the fat guy etc.
One reason this thread got started is because unfortunately sone aspects look like a ruse of sorts IN SOME WAYS (“red herrings” of sorts) because of the “comedy of errors” mistakes throughout the entire homicide.

They won’t take the word “hoax” out though so we are burdened with having to remove the word from our stream of awareness when we discuss or at least we should but it’s getting to neither here nor there at this point.

I have a personal aversion to “messy” and with the thread title as-is it will attract a LOT of that in amid the discussion of the nuances so as I’m passing through I’m giving my opinion on it.. If the questions you see posted don’t make sense to you, this thread probably won’t help you very much if at all.

This thread gets less activity because it of course ends up being “messy”.

I think a lot of people wonder why it’s here but since it is, we check in here now and then.
 

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SoS;4299751 said:
I think the biggest oddity to me is Murray stating on Dr Oz that when he came back in the room it wasn’t the same person laying there (that’s odd) the oddest thing of all being that Dr Oz didn’t ask him what the sam hill he meant by that.

Any theories?


He meant to say position, not person.
That's pretty clear when you listen to the full segment of the interview, starting here at 11:50

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x67qcp8

But of course, anyone looking for hoax-confirmations will jump on that, ignoring the context.
 

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SoS;4299859 said:
I doubt anyone researched through Dr Oz lol. This thread is about nuances that were noticed in the regular reporting with the exception of things some call a “hoax” which everyone here is offended by All that crazy stuff — including the fat guy etc.
One reason this thread got started is because unfortunately sone aspects look like a ruse of sorts IN SOME WAYS (“red herrings” of sorts) because of the “comedy of errors” mistakes throughout the entire homicide.

They won’t take the word “hoax” out though so we are burdened with having to remove the word from our stream of awareness when we discuss or at least we should but it’s getting to neither here nor there at this point.

I have a personal aversion to “messy” and with the thread title as-is it will attract a LOT of that in amid the discussion of the nuances so as I’m passing through I’m giving my opinion on it.. If the questions you see posted don’t make sense to you, this thread probably won’t help you very much if at all.

This thread gets less activity because it of course ends up being “messy”.

I think a lot of people wonder why it’s here but since it is, we check in here now and then.

I really don't understand why you keep objecting to "Hoax Theory" being in the title. People who want to point out inconsistencies and things in general which, in their opinion, "don't add up" usually believe that Michael is not dead, but instead faked his death and is living somewhere, happy and well. Hence the term, "death hoax", or "hoax theory". An example, upthread was the questioning of why Murray didn't appear to know how to do CPR and why he didn't put Michael on the floor, etc. That questioning invariably comes from people who believe that Murray wasn't doing proper CPR because Michael wasn't dead, Murray was in on the hoax and he was helping Michael to escape later, by absconding from the ambulance, or doing a body switch in the helicopter and so forth. Similarly, someone asking why "alleged victim" was a term used in the jury verdict in Murray's trial (also upthread) are usually asking that, because they think it means that Michael wasn't a victim, because he wasn't dead. It's never just about an anomaly - for them, it leads them to their underlying belief that he is alive - all things, no matter what they are, point to that, in their eyes. Believe me....I have seen it ALL, since 2009.
 

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The title of this thread is fine. It's people entertaining the notion that Michael faked his death, thus a death hoax. If you think that any so-called "oddities" or "inconsistencies" could hold weight, that is what you are doing — engaging in the possibility of a hoax.

I'm not actually interested in participating in this abominable thread, so this will be my last post, aside from any required moderation.

Firstly, I've already explained why everything was "alleged" — they're not doubting that he died on that date, but it's whether he was killed/a crime was committed on that date, which also makes the date "alleged".
Secondly, the 911 operator was either not properly trained or just made a bad choice. There's nothing weird about that either. Unfortunately it's something that happens sometimes.
Third, I assume you're talking about the ambulance photo, since that was on the front pages everywhere. The photo was taken quickly through a darkened window of a moving vehicle. It would be more weird if it hadn't been edited.
And finally, given that Murray is a liar who spewed all kinds of crap to try and save himself, I don't see why you would take anything that came out of his mouth seriously.

I have consumed hundreds of hours of true crime content over the years. I watched the Murray murder trial and there were no red flags to me.
When people fake their death they have to do it in a way that involves the least amount of involvement by others as possible. Even if you disregard Michael's own family, you have the paramedics, doctors and nurses, coroners, funeral directors, bodyguards, and apparently lawyers — given you think the phrasing in the trial is dodgy. All of those people can't have been involved. That is US government level of control and resource. So ruling that out means there would have to have been a dead body conveniently on hand that looked exactly like Michael and unless the body was identical to Michael even down to the health conditions and scars he had, then the coroners had to at least have been in on it. How likely do you think any of that is? It's so ridiculous, it's like the fake Paul McCartney conspiracy theory.

There were literally photos of Michael's dead body. How anyone can not only disregard their sense of reason but also look at those photos and still think this isn't reality is just insane to me, and very sad. But hey, that's just me.
 

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OK, looks like this new discussion aims at speculating about an actual hoax in one form or another after all. Then I’m out as well. That’s disrespectful.

If anyone’s looking to talk about questions or facts that they think haven’t been properly addressed in the CM and AEG trials, that I’d be interested to talk about. But a couple of hours into the CM trial videos, I must say, it all looks pretty straightforward to me. The only question I really have so far is why CM was released after only 2 years when he never showed any sign of remorse.

But again, hoax theories are a clear nope from me.
 

mysterygirl7

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I really don't understand why you keep objecting to "Hoax Theory" being in the title. People who want to point out inconsistencies and things in general which, in their opinion, "don't add up" usually believe that Michael is not dead, but instead faked his death and is living somewhere, happy and well. Hence the term, "death hoax", or "hoax theory". An example, upthread was the questioning of why Murray didn't appear to know how to do CPR and why he didn't put Michael on the floor, etc. That questioning invariably comes from people who believe that Murray wasn't doing proper CPR because Michael wasn't dead, Murray was in on the hoax and he was helping Michael to escape later, by absconding from the ambulance, or doing a body switch in the helicopter and so forth. Similarly, someone asking why "alleged victim" was a term used in the jury verdict in Murray's trial (also upthread) are usually asking that, because they think it means that Michael wasn't a victim, because he wasn't dead. It's never just about an anomaly - for them, it leads them to their underlying belief that he is alive - all things, no matter what they are, point to that, in their eyes. Believe me....I have seen it ALL, since 2009.

Well, even Jermaine and La Toya fueled all of this.... so... come on, we have to discuss this - the security cameras were not recording... - and La Toya especially has said the weirdest things... it's a fact she has....
 

SoS

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Electro;4299861 said:
He meant to say position, not person.
That's pretty clear when you listen to the full segment of the interview, starting here at 11:50

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x67qcp8

But of course, anyone looking for hoax-confirmations will jump on that, ignoring the context.

Thank you for this rational explanation.

THIS is ALL I am looking for when I come to this thread.

1 down 99 to go.
Thanks again . A LOT of fans do not know this.

It didn’t occur to me to slow down and listen again.
 

SoS

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mysterygirl7;4299894 said:
Well, even Jermaine and La Toya fueled all of this.... so... come on, we have to discuss this - the security cameras were not recording... - and La Toya especially has said the weirdest things... it's a fact she has....

Excellent questions.

What could Latoya have meant by, “it’s all an illusion- watch the Illisionist”?

What did Joe mean by “there’s more”

What did Jermaine mean by, “this is not it”


Rebbe, Jermaine, Latoya and others have said that “more” will come out eluding to a “conspiracy “

Why did Latoya say that RP was in the house that night”?

Why did they grill Paris about Grace in MJ’s bed if Grace wasn’t even around?

What makes questions like these cause people to say, “he died let him go”?
 

SoS

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Mikky Dee;4299864 said:
I really don't understand why you keep objecting to "Hoax Theory" being in the title. People who want to point out inconsistencies and things in general which, in their opinion, "don't add up" usually believe that Michael is not dead, but instead faked his death and is living somewhere, happy and well. Hence the term, "death hoax", or "hoax theory". An example, upthread was the questioning of why Murray didn't appear to know how to do CPR and why he didn't put Michael on the floor, etc. That questioning invariably comes from people who believe that Murray wasn't doing proper CPR because Michael wasn't dead, Murray was in on the hoax and he was helping Michael to escape later, by absconding from the ambulance, or doing a body switch in the helicopter and so forth. Similarly, someone asking why "alleged victim" was a term used in the jury verdict in Murray's trial (also upthread) are usually asking that, because they think it means that Michael wasn't a victim, because he wasn't dead. It's never just about an anomaly - for them, it leads them to their underlying belief that he is alive - all things, no matter what they are, point to that, in their eyes. Believe me....I have seen it ALL, since 2009.

Re bolded

2 reasons

Because of the connotation of the word, “hoax” and the definition:

hoax
/hōks/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a humorous or malicious deception.

And because it offends a LOT of fans.

They say it over and over and over and over...”MJ would never...”
 
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Antwort

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Earlier today, I was watching the Liberian Girl video on tele and, funnily enough, I was reminded of this thread. The moment that struck me was they sayin' he's wearing disguises line. At which point, I thought to my silly self - what if 6/25 was his ultimate disguise??? What if them hoax/believers people, whatever you wanna call 'em, aren't that off the wall, after all?

Can't belive this thread is this long actually, almost 250 pages. I've never really paid attention to it and it's the first post I'm making in here. I think plenty of the issues raised by the hoax-believing folks can be dismissed, not to mention the silly videos that used to populate the internet with creepy, mysterious soundtrack and very little meaningful content. Obviously, logic and reason, as well as the trials that took place in the meantime, only point to one conclusion - Michael is gone. Especially after all of the time that has passed. Was it Teddy Riley or Akon that said back in the day that Michael would return in 2/3 years?

Still, I can't help but have sympathy for the extremely few folks who believe this stuff still. Although some might have been attracted by the detective game aspect of it all, I do think plenty were genuinly interested in Michael's well being. However far fetched it may seem, it is sweet to think that the man may have elluded death and is still very much around. It wouldn't be the first time the media got a most major story about Michael spectacularly wrong. And it doesn't get any bigger really than the stark difference between life and death, but that's beyond the point.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the whole theory based on the presumption that Michael wouldn't do this or that to the fans, to the public, to the family, to whomever. Just because he was a most generous, kind and sensitive soul, doesn't mean he was perfect. Furthermore, the man might've had quite legitimate reasons for which to get away and stay away.

I suppose I am a hoax-agnostic of sorts. It would indeed be incredible and beyond exhilarating if he were still alive. Unfortunately, I cannot say that I've been presented with any definitive proof of it, but merely circumstancial and most inconclusive 'evidence'. In any case, his safety, health and [surreal] happiness have always been my greatest concerns and he will always be in my prayers, irrespective of his.....location, let us call it.


Let it be Christmas everywhere
Be God's glow
O come, desire of nations, come

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