The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread [Merged]

Carmour260

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I'm having conflicting issues about all this. Michael has played such a huge part in my life but I feel that it is over for MJ now, and to move on from it all. I know it sounds defeatist and it's how I feel but in the age of MeToo it's a totally different climate to 93' and 05' and this just feels much, much bigger than 05' even though there was a strong anti-Jackson bias then. But yea it does feel like a tsunami is on it's way and there's no coming back from it.

Don't let the MeToo era define you. Their credibility is being questioned too before this. I personally feel it's not bigger than 2005, we got our social platforms now. There's no tsunami in this. Don't let all that negative energy get to you. Michael played an impact on my life and I'm forever grateful for that. Through the good and bad, I learned a lot. Keep the faith, I'm with you (at least in spirit)
 

stopdaan

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

The estate should just run an ad, after the doc saying "Hey Wade, you owe us 70.000,-. Please contact us"
 

travis3000

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

There is the chance that things will get better. But its going to take time. The environment right now with MeToo is very bad for accusations like this. That's why its getting so much press. There is a possibility that if no further boys come out that things could heal in the coming months and years. Michael Jackson is in a very unique situation compared to others as he is literally the bedrock of modern music. You cannot name a single mainstream singer of the past 15 years that hasn't cited Michael Jackson has a major influence. Even the younger millennial generation considers MJ a legend. Everyone is always doing tributes to him, he's still on the charts every week. Everyone has major emotional attachment to his music on some level. So while things are crazy right now, the public is venting.... I truly believe that providing nothing else shocking comes to light that things will heal and MJ will remain entrenched in the public light. There is a strong anti-media sediment going on right now across the world, a desire to go against the mainstream machines that run the world. This is illustrated in the elections of Trump. Brexit, and countless other changes in government in countries. The masses are very skeptical about what the media says, and this will play right into it with the huge debate going on.

Lets see how the next week goes, and then we will have a better idea of where to go from there.
 

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Cinnamon234

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

There is the chance that things will get better. But its going to take time. The environment right now with MeToo is very bad for accusations like this. That's why its getting so much press. There is a possibility that if no further boys come out that things could heal in the coming months and years. Michael Jackson is in a very unique situation compared to others as he is literally the bedrock of modern music. You cannot name a single mainstream singer of the past 15 years that hasn't cited Michael Jackson has a major influence. Even the younger millennial generation considers MJ a legend. Everyone is always doing tributes to him, he's still on the charts every week. Everyone has major emotional attachment to his music on some level. So while things are crazy right now, the public is venting.... I truly believe that providing nothing else shocking comes to light that things will heal and MJ will remain entrenched in the public light. There is a strong anti-media sediment going on right now across the world, a desire to go against the mainstream machines that run the world. This is illustrated in the elections of Trump. Brexit, and countless other changes in government in countries. The masses are very skeptical about what the media says, and this will play right into it with the huge debate going on.

Lets see how the next week goes, and then we will have a better idea of where to go from there.

All good points. We've been through the trials and I believe we can hopefully get through this but it's all a waiting game at this point. I expect there to be a lot of negativity in the next few days and weeks following this documentary but Michael has a lot of support as well.

We will see.

I'm praying that his legacy can survive.
 

Blondie

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I think just remember that you're not alone. You're still entitled to think whatever you think, or not think about it at all. This week will go by, then another, then another. Theres too much push back for this to be the abrupt end and for MJ to just be finished I think. I'm just watching, its like a circus still...as it always is. There are so may theories flying around. The media will always proclaim things loudly as if they have final say on what people should think, in this day and age though stuff will continue to be disgusted/analysed on twitter, this is something that wasn't there before. I'm trying to detach myself a bit now and just watch. I know what I think, I accept I will never know the whole truth. I will keep what Michael gave to my life no matter what
 

CherubimII

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

If you can't, already, like me, find something to laugh about this hit job mockumentary "Leaving Neverland", I predict you will by this time tomorrow.

I've been to Neverland, also; so I have decided to film a documentary.
I'm going to name it:
"Can I PLEASE have Michael Jackson's Neverland".
:laughing:

af4e296acf66aa9b85a15365442ef471.jpg




921d77e11b4cb997c269b0a4eea7d253.jpg




849ce6a4223d32606a95e02c855e6c21.jpg
 
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evan14

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I have to agree with you unfortunately when you compare this unfavorably to '03. Michael was alive and knew that he was innocent and had the possibility to go and clear his name in the eyes of the law, even if the media and certain sectors of the public would still try to demonize him, you had the incontrovertible fact that he was found not guilty on all charges, and the (legal) system worked.

In the case of this HBO hit piece, the man is deceased, and there is no space being made for a presentation of all facts; cross examinations, rebuttals, and the like. Combine this with the atmosphere today where even people who have never had any spots on their public record can be brought down by the proclamations of one individual, even if what this individual alleges has no basis in fact (look at Chris Hartwick).

So while Michael never had it easy in '03 in the court of public opinion (mostly because of the perceived earlier issues, eg '93 and the like, and because "oh he looks like a freak"), we've now progressed to a place where even 100% plain-Jain individuals with a spotless history can be totally at the mercy of one person making unfounded allegations.

It really is a distressing time to be alive, especially being young and single and trying to enjoy life, you never know if you'll accidentally do something to piss off someone crazy with a taste for vengeance and no scruples, and find them trying, and perhaps even succeeding, to ruin your life. OK I'll get off my soapbox now :D
 

evan14

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Also I'll probably be in the minority here, but I've always subscribed to the idea that one must know their enemy, so I'll probably watch at least some of the docu, assuming I can find an illicitly downloadable copy (because despite having an HBO go account from a family member, I have no desire to given HBO any views on this shameful piece of content). I expect I'll come away quite pissed off so I'll have to make sure I'm home alone and have a clear schedule to decompress my rage ha.
 

wednesday

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Where are all those "woke" social justice warriors and their outrage when you need them?

1. A dead black man is lynched! (See statement of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference)
2. "Leaving Neverland" is making a mockery of real child abuse victims
 

Carmour260

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I know I’ve been saying it’ll be alright. At the same time, I’m very scared about this whole thing. Are people really THAT obsessed on taking Michael down like that? What a sick, twisted world we live in.

I’m going to say this one time: I was almost sexually molested when I was a child, and it cuts me so deep that these bastards are making a mockery out of all of this, and I’m in rage. This hits me below the belt.

I know God is in control, he’s always on time. My heart is still healing
 

Amaya

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Where are all those "woke" social justice warriors and their outrage when you need them?

1. A dead black man is lynched! (See statement of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference)
2. "Leaving Neverland" is making a mockery of real child abuse victims

Sadly the SJW crowd tend to be the same ones with the "always believe the victims!!1!" mentality.

Looking through the posts on here and other MJ places my feelings have been a roller-coaster all day. I'm scared to death over what part two of this shitfest will bring.
 

kai

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

just heard that german channel "pro7" got the right for LN.. so they will show it in germany too..
 

travis3000

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Unfortunately Leaving Neverland is going to be aired all over the world in the coming days and weeks. This saga is going to be something that drags on for weeks and weeks. We are in the worst of it right now, but there will be aftershocks in the next month. I hate knowing that MILLIONS of people around the world are going to watch this crap. If you are an average uninformed viewer, by the time the 4 hour brainwashing is done they will have MJ right in the same category as Hitler and Satan.

I now know why HBO didn't back down from that lawsuit. They knew this was going to be huge, and they will probably make a boat load of cash by licensing this to dozens of other media companies.
 

CherubimII

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Michael Jackson fans are the ones who love, support, defend, and buy Michael Jackson music and videos; and we will continue to do so.:love:
When it is all said and done that is all that matters!!!!
:yes:
 

CherubimII

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Just wanted to add CANCEL THAT "BLACK MAMMY OPRAH WINFREY"!!!!
Someone, please tell Oprah Slavery ended.
That's right I got some Haterator for Oprah Winfrey. :punk:
 

fraroc04

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I've done everything I can to stay positive throughout this ordeal...and I'm very happy that there are still plenty of people in the world who dont believe Wade and Jimmy and know that MJ is innocent....

But it does get tiring after a while trying to defend MJ all the time...some of my closest IRL friends believe Wade and Jimmy fully and now they're trashing MJ on their Facebook walls :(
 

Carmour260

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fraroc04;4245706 said:
I've done everything I can to stay positive throughout this ordeal...and I'm very happy that there are still plenty of people in the world who dont believe Wade and Jimmy and know that MJ is innocent....

But it does get tiring after a while trying to defend MJ all the time...some of my closest IRL friends believe Wade and Jimmy fully and now they're trashing MJ on their Facebook walls :(
Let them go. They weren’t your friends to being with. I quote Maya Angelou, “If someone shows you who they really are, believe them.”
 

Kingofpop4ever3000

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I haven’t been this emotionally hurt since the day that Michael died. Only a miracle could save his legacy now. I’m so sad and angry because of this mess. I’ve been a Michael Jackson fan for almost my entire life. I can’t believe it could end like this for him.
 

Kilrahi

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I would argue that the worst time to be an MJ fan was 2003-2005. Because then, literally EVERYONE was against Michael. He had no support from anybody, other than his fans. Comedians dedicated their entire routines to MJ jokes, the media reported downright false information about the case. We didn't have social media to communicate easily with other fans around the world, and us MJ fans were seen by the general public as the lowest of the low.

At least now, we have more skepticism towards the claims. Even people who aren't Michael Jackson fans are saying "it just seems like wade and Jimmy are after money from the estate."

Hi. Just a random old fan school fan passing through in light of the media blitzing going on. Out of curiosity I couldn't help but wonder what the fan community was doing and stumbled on this reply and others.

I thought I'd weigh in a bit. I'm still moderated so maybe no one will see this, but it's intended to make people feel better.

I personally think the darkest time to be a fan was 1993. For those who didn't live through, or weren't old enough to remember, it might be hard to understand why. We were just coming off the high of a few significant positives. There was the television special, "The Jacksons: An American Dream," the Michael Jackson Super Bowl performance, and perhaps best of all, the high of the Oprah special (hard to imagine any sort of high from an Oprah commentary now) where fans of MJ finally got to hear his response to some of the accusations of weirdness that had already dogged him for years. More importantly though, we got to see the humanity of the person that most of us had only been privileged to see the performance side of.

Suddenly culturally he was okay again, like he'd been in the 80's. As a young teenager at the time, I could start to be open about my interest without getting backlash. Then within a mere six months it all turned upside down with the first accusations of child molestation. This was 1993 though - all fans were treated with was an endless array of alleged bombshell evidence - articles rarely shared any actual data, but they alluded to claims that damning evidence existed in droves. You wondered each day if there was going to be an announcement of an arrest warrant or something that made you question your choice in entertainers, and by extension doubt yourself as well. It was virtually impossible to find any article writing about problems with the allegations. The only thing they would grant for you to latch on to was that the abuse was "alleged," and sometimes not even that.

Most importantly though, you felt alone. Completely and utterly alone. The world largely convinced you there was only one Michael Jackson fan in existence left, and it was you - and the world argued that you were quite possibly a freak yourself.

What a difference the internet makes. Now you can check out evidence - seek it out and examine it rather than be left to the whims of what the major news organizations publish. You can then examine the evidence that exists, check for your internal biases, and make your best judgement as a human being.

Most important though, you can know you're not alone. You can verify you're part of a community, that your not crazy, and you can share and revel in the joys, and share in the sorrows that sometimes comes, from your shared fandom.

Because of this there will never be a time as dark for Michael Jackson fans as August of 1993, and that's a good thing! I ached in November of 1994 to have some idea of what the strip search of MJ revealed - now you can quickly find out opinions on that. When I finally passed the GQ article in my local K-Mart which brought up sodium amytal it was like being hit by a lightning bolt (I practically framed the magazine).

Even more than the desire for real data though, I wished - ACHED - for a fellow fan that I could talk to.

Now any MJ fan can have that in droves, which assures that you'll never feel like the only tree left in a forest. You can all gain strength from each other, and it is a reason that you can hold your head up and know that things aren't as bad as they appear.
 

travis3000

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

^ Thank you for that valuable insight. Being a MJ fan certainly comes with its ups and downs. We just all thought that after his death all of this crap would be done and over with. Its a hard time but I believe we will get through it.
 

Cinnamon234

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Hi. Just a random old fan school fan passing through in light of the media blitzing going on. Out of curiosity I couldn't help but wonder what the fan community was doing and stumbled on this reply and others.

I thought I'd weigh in a bit. I'm still moderated so maybe no one will see this, but it's intended to make people feel better.

I personally think the darkest time to be a fan was 1993. For those who didn't live through, or weren't old enough to remember, it might be hard to understand why. We were just coming off the high of a few significant positives. There was the television special, "The Jacksons: An American Dream," the Michael Jackson Super Bowl performance, and perhaps best of all, the high of the Oprah special (hard to imagine any sort of high from an Oprah commentary now) where fans of MJ finally got to hear his response to some of the accusations of weirdness that had already dogged him for years. More importantly though, we got to see the humanity side of the person that most of us had we'd had only been privileged to see the performance side of.

Suddenly culturally he was okay again, like he'd been in the 80's. As a young teenager at the time, I could start to be open about my interest without getting backlash. Then within a mere six months it all turned upside down with the first accusations of child molestation. This was 1993 though - all fans were treated with was an endless array of alleged bombshell evidence - articles rarely shared any actual data, but they alluded to claims that damning evidence existed in droves. You wondered each day if there was going to be an announcement of an arrest warrant or something that made you question your choice in entertainers, and by extension doubt yourself as well. It was virtually impossible to find any article writing about problems with the allegations. The only thing they would grant for you to latch on to was that the abuse was "alleged," and sometimes not even that.

Most importantly though, you felt alone. Completely and utterly alone. The world largely convinced you there was only one Michael Jackson fan in existence left, and it was you - and the world argued that you were quite possibly a freak yourself.

What a difference the internet makes. Now you can check out evidence - seek it out and examine it rather than be left to the whims of what the major news organizations publish. You can then examine the evidence that exists, check for your internal biases, and make your best judgement as a human being.

Most important though, you can know you're not alone. You can verify you're part of a community, that your not crazy, and you can share and revel in the joys, and share in the sorrows that sometimes comes, from your shared fandom.

Because of this there will never be a time as dark for Michael Jackson fans as August of 1993, and that's a good thing! I ached in November of 1994 to have some idea of what the strip search of MJ revealed - now you can quickly find out opinions on that. When I finally passed the GQ article in my local K-Mart which brought up sodium amytal it was like being hit by a lightning bolt (I practically framed the magazine).

Even more than the desire for real data though, I wished - ACHED - for a fellow fan that I could talk to.

Now any MJ fan can have that in droves, which assures that you'll never feel like the only tree left in a forest. You can all gain strength from each other, and it is a reason that you can hold your head up and know that things aren't as bad as they appear.

Thank you for sharing this. I don't remember much about the backlash in 1993 but I can imagine how horrible and isolating it was as a fan. You explained it very well.

What you said definitely helps to put things in perspective.

As you said, at least we have social media now and we know we're not alone in our support of MJ.
 

kevin_1990

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

Who has links to the trail court documents it airs in the UK tomorrow probably going to need them
 

DDam

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I've done everything I can to stay positive throughout this ordeal...and I'm very happy that there are still plenty of people in the world who dont believe Wade and Jimmy and know that MJ is innocent....

But it does get tiring after a while trying to defend MJ all the time...some of my closest IRL friends believe Wade and Jimmy fully and now they're trashing MJ on their Facebook walls :(

I disagree with the person on here telling you to drop your closest IRL friends because of their opinion of MJ. I have no idea most of my friends' opinions of MJ, I do know about 1 of them, it's not good, he knows mine, we're still friends, it's up to him what he thinks. My friendship with someone isn't based on or revolve around what they think about MJ.

If you want to talk to them about it later you can but you don't have to. Just don't talk about the topic with them if it harms your friendship, unless they're open to talking about it, and you want to.

Give yourself a break. There's no point stressing yourself this much.
 

charismatic

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I hear both airings flopped and the Oprah interview did as well!

Oprah will soon see her antic were worth it and i hope the backlash hits are on every level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

kevin_1990

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I disagree with the person on here telling you to drop your closest IRL friends because of their opinion of MJ. I have no idea most of my friends' opinions of MJ, I do know about 1 of them, it's not good, he knows mine, we're still friends, it's up to him what he thinks. My friendship with someone isn't based on or revolve around what they think about MJ.

If you want to talk to them about it later you can but you don't have to. Just don't talk about the topic with them if it harms your friendship, unless they're open to talking about it, and you want to.

Give yourself a break. There's no point stressing yourself this much.

Exactly unfortnally if u based your friends on what they think of Michael you wouldn't have many friends left if i did i wouldn't have any my mates who i hangout with all thought he was a paedo before this now in there minds this documentary is solid evidence it airs in the UK tonight they will all be watching I'm not as I'm working but i will just ignore there messages on our group chat i will not bite that's what they want. What makes me more sad is i know my mothers going to watch it typical mother she will feel sorry for them and think poor boys but she won't rub it in my face if she does believe them what I'm 85 percent sure she will because like the majority of the public she has not done research. Please don't put hate on my mother now like i said she will not rub it in like my mates and its not her fault these 2 idiots are going to brain wash her.
 

8701girl

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Re: The "Leaving Neverland" Rant & Support Thread

I hear both airings flopped and the Oprah interview did as well!

Oprah will soon see her antic were worth it and i hope the backlash hits are on every level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

so its true they really did flop
 

Indra

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I might be fooled here but for the past few days I've been searching for things about this whole mess and I have to say I've been positively surprised. Obviously this is really really bad and I too have doubt about if Michal’s legacy will survive this but what I mean is when look around, at social media and so on, there are far more people questioning these allegations than I can remember it being the last few times. I haven’t been searching for any hashtag that indicates that Michael’s innocent, it’s been his name, or the Leaving Neverland or Oprah and so on. Even though there are really hurtful things popping up there are even more positive things, and in those hurtful tweets or Instagram posts there are so many comments from people defending Michael. I get the feeling that the people who always believed he was guilty are those who still believe it. Some who say that they thought he was innocent but now thing he’s guilty but why less than I would have thought. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe its wishful thinking, but my impression so far is that far more people are questioning these allegation than they did in 93 and during the trail.
 
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