“We took Sony 50 songs, and this [I Never Heard aka This Is It] was the best of all of them."

Electro

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mj_frenzy;4303222 said:
The ‘This Is It’ song melodically is very weak, uninspired and prosaic

Speak for yourself!


For me it's quite the opposite. I love how the vocal melodies are composed and beautifully flowing. So damn catchy, while not being simplistic or repetitiv. The class of Paul Anka is definitly present.
 
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Smooth72

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nextbigthing56;4303163 said:
I absolutely think Best Of Joy would of been the best choice to be released to promote the movie. It was one of his absolute last songs and could of been used as a ‘farewell’ to his fans. I think it also should of been released as a single and promoted heavily as one of his last tracks. Could of been a big hit.

I disagree, good song but not single worthy. Some of the song sounds odd to me. They should have picked a uptempo song to celebrate MJ. They had to have one close to complete that he intended to release. Instead they picked a 30 year old mediocre song that had never any intention of being released. TII could have been much better imo.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Electro;4303250 said:
Speak for yourself!


For me it's quite the opposite. I love how the vocal melodies are composed and beautifully flowing. So damn catchy, while not being simplistic or repetitiv. The class of Paul Anka is definitly present.

i love it too. beautiful song.
 

wonderouzmj

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Smooth72;4303257 said:
I disagree, good song but not single worthy. Some of the song sounds odd to me. They should have picked a uptempo song to celebrate MJ. They had to have one close to complete that he intended to release. Instead they picked a 30 year old mediocre song that had never any intention of being released. TII could have been much better imo.
I agree 100%. It was odd & off...totally a demo & to me it didnt even sound remastered. The noise is very loud in the song. Alot of songs that came about/leaked in 06-08 was heavy on my playlist already. I was so disappointed in 2014 with xscape & still no inclusion of the authentic "joy" & I was like....smh i listen to these on a daily.but i loved "lovin you, chicago & xscape remix". It was only 3songs i had never heard. & like the bad 25 unreleased tracks....i was blown away & most weren't even finished. Idk if im so blue chorus was supposed to have lyrics on the chrous but dammnit it sound so good! & free is my favorite! I love the vocals on that. Wish I had those acapellas to that track!
 

SoCav

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nextbigthing56;4303163 said:
I absolutely think Best Of Joy would of been the best choice to be released to promote the movie. It was one of his absolute last songs and could of been used as a ‘farewell’ to his fans. I think it also should of been released as a single and promoted heavily as one of his last tracks. Could of been a big hit.
I agree. In contrast to This Is It/I Never Heard it was actually one of the last songs he worked on, and the ethereal "we are forever/I am forever" coda would have made for a crushing but fitting, bittersweet ending to the film. To me the song is a lot stronger too.
 

Dangerous1991

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This Is It was chosen because the title of the song was This Is It and tied in with the tour, it was a no brainer from a commercial standpoint, even if there were better tracks ahead of it.

Best Of Joy would have been a more fitting choice given it was the last song MJ recorded and the "I am forever" lyrics are poignant

Other than that, I could have appreciated one of MJ's songs stripped back, Gone Too Soon for example with just an acoustic guitar as the backing.

This Is It is not a bad song at all, but had MJ still been here, we wouldn't have even heard it to this day!
 

Themidwestcowboy

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SoCav;4303299 said:
I agree. In contrast to This Is It/I Never Heard it was actually one of the last songs he worked on, and the ethereal "we are forever/I am forever" coda would have made for a crushing but fitting, bittersweet ending to the film. To me the song is a lot stronger too.

Best of joy is my favorite posthumous song. I adore it and I agree with you.
 

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I really do enjoy This Is It, I think it's a very nice song and the orchestra version in particular is great. How to tastefully finish a song. I also love Best Of Joy, but do not really think it is a song you'd release as a single, especially to go along with the This Is It movie.
 

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This Is It was chosen for obvious reasons, but I do think it was a weak choice for a single. I absolutely adore This Is It and also Best of Joy and think they are absolute gorgeous tracks, but both of them aren't really single material.

I think they should have chosen an up-tempo song to go along with This Is It movie. For the second half of 2009, Michael was the hottest artist and I reckon if they chose the right up-tempo song, it could have topped the charts worldwide. I personally would have gone for Xscape, as Michael expresses a desire to escape in that song. I suppose you can say that with Michael dying, he finally got his Xscape. Or maybe they could have chosen Price of Fame, which again could have been linked to Michael's death. Michael paid the Price of Fame by dying at such a young age.
 

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singles

What exactly is "single material"? If songs like Pretty Boy Swag by Soulja Boy or What Does The Fox Say can be hit singles, then there shouldn't be much a problem with This Is It. This Is It sounds like something John Legend or Ed Sheeran could put out today and get heavy airplay with, at least in the USA.
 

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While "Best of Joy" absolutely would've been the better choice given its subject matter and the fact that it's one of Michael's last full vocal recordings, I still think that "This Is It" is beautiful and was a fun coincidence.
 

Smooth72

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The problem with both of the songs is that they are fan songs. They are not hit single songs. The difference between the two is a hit song appeals to the masses and a fan song is just a song the us fans would appreciate. You have to be realistic not every song is a hit. The fact that those two songs were released and were supposed to have a impact is very troubling in the sense that they could be the best they have left.
 

DuranDuran

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singles

You have to be realistic not every song is a hit.
A hit single has more to do with payola for radio airplay than anything else. I know the lyrics to songs I don't even like because I heard them a lot on the radio or saw the video on MTV/BET. :rofl: Sometimes a certain artist can make songs a hit. Several of Whitney Houston's hits were songs first released by other acts but the original versions did not become hits or were minor hits. A lot of people think Whitney's versions are the original. Whitney had the Clive Davis machine behind her.
 

AlwaysThere

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Smooth72;4303437 said:
The problem with both of the songs is that they are fan songs. They are not hit single songs. The difference between the two is a hit song appeals to the masses and a fan song is just a song the us fans would appreciate. You have to be realistic not every song is a hit. The fact that those two songs were released and were supposed to have a impact is very troubling in the sense that they could be the best they have left.

I wouldn't say "This Is It" was meant to be a hit. They released it as a radio-only single, didn't push the Spike Lee music video whatsoever, and sorta forgot about it as soon as it came out. I think it was just a little extra for the fans.
 

Smooth72

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AlwaysThere;4303440 said:
I wouldn't say "This Is It" was meant to be a hit. They released it as a radio-only single, didn't push the Spike Lee music video whatsoever, and sorta forgot about it as soon as it came out. I think it was just a little extra for the fans.

Good point. It’s strange they didn’t use a song that would be a smash hit. They have to have something.
 

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Re: singles

What exactly is "single material"? If songs like Pretty Boy Swag by Soulja Boy or What Does The Fox Say can be hit singles, then there shouldn't be much a problem with This Is It. This Is It sounds like something John Legend or Ed Sheeran could put out today and get heavy airplay with, at least in the USA.

It has been widely accepted that singles gain more success globally (both in terms of sales and chart) when they are up-tempo, feel-good songs.

Especially, if these singles are released by female pop singers, as compared to singles released by male pop singers (again on a global basis).

One of the main reasons for that is that most people are more interested in listening to an up-tempo song with a catchy tune rather than listening to a sad, mundane ballad/mid-tempo song.

Also, most people do not really care about the deepest or most meaningful lyrics of a song, or even the best voice of a song, as long as the song (released as a single) captures their attention with its catchy tune.

And it has been proved that an up-tempo single with a catchy tune is by far a more radio-friendly song than a ballad/mid-tempo song.
 

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mj_frenzy;4303447 said:
It has been widely accepted that singles gain more success globally (both in terms of sales and chart) when they are up-tempo, feel-good songs.

Especially, if these singles are released by female pop singers, as compared to singles released by male pop singers (again on a global basis).

One of the main reasons for that is that most people are more interested in listening to an up-tempo song with a catchy tune rather than listening to a sad, mundane ballad/mid-tempo song.

Also, most people do not really care about the deepest or most meaningful lyrics of a song, or even the best voice of a song, as long as the song (released as a single) captures their attention with its catchy tune.

And it has been proved that an up-tempo single with a catchy tune is by far a more radio-friendly song than a ballad/mid-tempo song.
As much as I appreciate a song with an energetic tempo, a song does not need to fit the criteria of being “catchy” for it to be a single-worthy. Also, what do you mean people don’t care about the lyrics, message, or voice of a song? What about Gone Too Soon? Childhood? Even Smile? There isn’t really a catchy rhythm in those songs, yet they were released as singles. Why? The lyrics, message, and voice behind those songs already prove their worthiness as singles. You know, a song can have a groove and still be hard on the ears, and hard to enjoy. Those aforementioned singles are better to listen to than some of the music in present times, despite their energetic tempos. Why? Their lyrics, messages, and Michael’s vocals actually carry value and thus, I appreciate those songs more than, say, a song from LiL (insert rapper name here).
 
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mj_frenzy

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Serious Effect;4303448 said:
As much as I appreciate a song with an energetic tempo, a song does not need to fit the criteria of being “catchy” for it to be a single-worthy. Also, what do you mean people don’t care about the lyrics, message, or voice of a song? What about Gone Too Soon? Childhood? Even Smile? There isn’t really a catchy rhythm in those songs, yet they were released as singles. Why? The lyrics, message, and voice behind those songs already prove their worthiness as singles. You know, a song can have a groove and still be hard on the ears, and hard to enjoy. Those aforementioned singles are better to listen to than some of the music in present times, despite their energetic tempos. Why? Their lyrics, messages, and Michael’s vocals actually carry value and thus, I appreciate those songs more than, say, a song from LiL (insert rapper name here).

‘Smile’ was not released as a single (actually they abandoned that idea eventually).

‘Childhood’ as a single did not enjoy much commercial and chart success.

Similarly, ‘Gone Too Soon’ did not enjoy much commercial and chart success.

Compare the low/moderate success of these two songs (as singles) with the tremendous success of some of his up-tempo songs (as singles) with a catchy tune, such as ‘Black Or White’, ‘Remember The Time’, ‘Smooth Criminal’, ‘The Way You Make Me Feel’, ‘Billie Jean’, ‘Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough’, etc.

Your response actually proves my point.
 

AlwaysThere

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Ballads had a higher chance of single success before, like, 2010. Nowadays the market is entirely different; with some notable exceptions, you'll never see a song like "You Are Not Alone," "She's Out of My Life," or "Will You Be There" do huge numbers.

Nine of the current Top 10 songs in the US are upbeat. In the UK, all ten are upbeat. It's even worse because old-fashioned love songs are sort of dying off in favor of songs about self-expression.

If the Estate wants a hit, they'll either have to go with an upbeat song (like "Love Never Felt So Good") or get a certified hit maker involved (like Drake on "Don't Matter to Me"). Songs like "Best of Joy" and "This Is It" are incredibly difficult to push.
 

DuranDuran

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mj_frenzy;4303447 said:
One of the main reasons for that is that most people are more interested in listening to an up-tempo song with a catchy tune rather than listening to a sad, mundane ballad/mid-tempo song.

Also, most people do not really care about the deepest or most meaningful lyrics of a song, or even the best voice of a song, as long as the song (released as a single) captures their attention with its catchy tune.

And it has been proved that an up-tempo single with a catchy tune is by far a more radio-friendly song than a ballad/mid-tempo song.
In the USA, ballads are often the songs that remained at #1 the longest. Groups like Boys II Men were more known for ballad hits than dance songs. Kenny G was a multi-platinum album seller with his smooth jazz music. The US also had an entire radio format for ballads and soft rock acts (adult contemporary) like Bread, John Denver, The Carpenters, Barbra Streisand, America, & Air Supply and before that there was easy listening radio stations. The music video channel VH-1 was originally started for adult contemporary acts that the main MTV channel were less likely to show. R&B has the Quiet Storm programs named after a Smokey Robinson song. Power ballads by rock bands were really popular in the 1980s. If people are just interested in uptempo music, then why are Adele & John Legend so popular today? John Legend was even voted "sexiest man alive" in People Magazine.

Now today since hip hop is the #1 genre in the US, adult contemporary is less popular than in the past, but not non-existant, such the success of Ed Sheeran & Michael
Bublé.
[video=youtube;pHg-m-2ahCc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHg-m-2ahCc[/video]
[video=youtube;dGT0gDI7ccs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGT0gDI7ccs[/video]
[video=youtube;c22VlShFh_U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c22VlShFh_U[/video]
[video=youtube;qkPXfpwJBic]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkPXfpwJBic[/video]
[video=youtube;TBDWomgRgWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBDWomgRgWU[/video]

 

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The fluffy sweet ballad singles were pretty much all released as sort of a bonus or in somehow special situations, without the ambition to have another No.1 smash hit, I think.

"Gone Too Soon" and "Smile" were (or were meant as) closing singles of each very long 2~3 year album promo campaigns. Despite the rather low chart potential for those songs, they could not have gone No.1 anyway. After a string of singles all promoting the same album, the last singles naturally didn't do that well, since many potential buyers already owned the song via the album by then. (Remember back then charts were all about physically sold music. No downloads, no streams.)

Maybe, if the 1993 scandal would not have happened, "Gone Too Soon" would have never been released as a single. It definitly took the place of the sheduled "Dangerous" single at that time, but the low key "Gone Too Soon" was for sure the better choice in that crazy situtation to end the album promo ("...too soon").


mj_frenzy;4303451 said:
‘Smile’ was not released as a single (actually they abandoned that idea eventually).

Not the idea was abandoned because of second thoughts on the chart potential of the song. The fully finished manufactured, ready-to-ship single (vinyl, CD) was cancelled because of a last minute rights dispute with the Chaplin estate over the performance of the song on two sheduled and promoted TV shows and maybe the release as a single in general.

mj_frenzy;4303451 said:
‘Childhood’ as a single did not enjoy much commercial and chart success.

Eh? "Childhood" was the AA-Side of the "Scream" single. While it's likely that this song would have been too special to really storm the pop charts of 1995 on its own, it still is plain false to say that it didn't have commercial and chart success. The "Scream/Childhood" bundle f*cking entered the US Billboard Hot 100 at No.5, which at the time had not been seen since the Beatles. Try to prove that everyone only bought it for the "Scream" song! :D

Scream-MJ.jpg




The "This Is It" movie didn't really need a single to promote it I guess. Michael Jackson dead - the biggest sensation since Thriller and Michael Jackson the molester. The film rode the sensation wave on its own. Maybe there were other low key songs that would have fit as a single in this situation, but with this title / lyrics it was indeed a no-brainer.
 
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Lotta

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the song is nice but never came close to many others.
 
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