What actually happened to Rod Temperton after the Thriller-Era?

JEMFTV

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
984
Points
18
Can someone explain me why Rod Temperton wasn't involved in the making of the Bad record? Was he fired, or did he refuse to participate, or was he sick? ( :p), just write an answer, because i'm curious. :hiya:
 

InvincibleMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,760
Points
48
My guess it has something to do with the fact Michael wanted to be the main writer of Bad with absolute majority of songs with his writing. BUT I also heard Rod has issues with MJ now? Or was it someone else...
 

Slave To The Rhythm

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
417
Points
18
Location
Bavaria, Germany
I guess Michael wanted to go a different way and create new sounds. Maybe he thought Rod isn't the best choice for that?
And i'm sure he prefered the songs he wrote himself for Bad.
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
Can someone explain me why Rod Temperton wasn't involved in the making of the Bad record? Was he fired, or did he refuse to participate, or was he sick? ( :p), just write an answer, because i'm curious. :hiya:

Rod Temperton did write 1 song for the Bad album. Groove Of Midnight. I hope we'll hear it soon.
 

JEMFTV

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
984
Points
18
^Didn't Matt Forger say that they tried to find the tape from the song for Bad25, but they couldn't find it?
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
^Didn't Matt Forger say that they tried to find the tape from the song for Bad25, but they couldn't find it?

Yes he did, but they'll find it and release it eventually. It has to be somewhere, just like Bad Tour film reels.
 

Dilan

Proud Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
689
Points
18
Yes he did, but they'll find it and release it eventually. It has to be somewhere, just like Bad Tour film reels.

Where can I actually see where matt said they couldn't find it?
 

JEMFTV

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
984
Points
18
Dilan;4047603 said:
Where can I actually see where matt said they couldn't find it?


There you go: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...r-the-secrets-of-BAD-25?p=3722854#post3722854


During the BAD sessions, Michael Jackson considered many songs that finally were discarded. Songwriter Rod Temperton, who was part of the A-Team behind Off the Wall and Thriller, submitted a few songs for BAD, one of them being <b>Groove of Midnight</b>. This song was eventually recorded by Siedah Garrett and was released on her debut album KISS of Life on Qwest Records (1988). “Rod Temperton had some songs”, remembers Matt Forger. “Quincy asked him to have songs ready. Groove of Midnight is one of these songs. However we searched and we could not find a version with Michael’s vocals. It wasn’t a song that they considered for the BAD album eventually”
 
Last edited:

ChickenMcNuggets

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
614
Points
0
Location
A Happy Meal
I doubt he was "fired" or had a problem with Michael or anything like that, there probably just wasn't the room for his stuff on the album given that Michael had so much songwriting responsibility. Rod didn't seem as active in music in general after the late '80s, although he did still contribute some gorgeous tracks to Quincy's post-Bad solo albums.
 

barbee0715

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
6,940
Points
63
Location
Texas, USA
No, I agree with that-I truly think Michael had written so many songs himself that there just wasn't too much room for Rod that time-and didn't he write some 60 odd songs and wanted a 3 disc set? And Michael also really wanted to prove himself after that monster "Thriller".

And Rod still is around-he was interviewed when they did the Special Edition CDs, and last year he, Bruce S. and Quincy were all in Dubai giving a seminar about being in the studio making these albums. I enjoyed his interviews-its fascinating to hear a songwriter tell what songs and why they think they fit both Michael and his voice.

I think he also recently gave Quincy a MOBO award. Rod is such a brilliant songwriter and he wrote many, many songs for Quincy after that-"Ms Celie's Blues" from the "Color Purple" was nominated for an Oscar.

This made me look up Siedah's version of "Groove of Midnight" and it was just lovely-and that led me to a YouTube playlist called Rod Temperton's legacy, that I listened to all day yesterday-and today too. Of course, I had to put on repeat-my favorite-will always be "Always and Forever"-can you just imagine Michael singing that? Aaaaaah.
 

Birchey

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
3,393
Points
0
Location
England
Rod has always been around, but as people get older sometimes they take more of a backseat, Rod was still writing for Michael, and Michael was still singing his lyrics in 2008.
 

EmCeeSquared

Proud Member
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
33
Points
0
Rod Temperton has written some great songs for Michael but Rock With You really stands out for me. Such a brilliant song. Hot Street is pretty damn cool too.
 

Electro

Proud Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
1,308
Points
0
Location
East Germany
Snippets from Michael's Groove Of Midnight recoring session:

Siedah's version (1988):

More of an album-filler this one.
 
Last edited:

Zakk

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
7,350
Points
48
Snippets from Michael's Groove Of Midnight recoring session:

Siedah's version (1988):

More of an album-filler this one.

Nonetheless, it's an unheard Michael Jackson song and i'd love to hear his demo..
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
Rod has always been around, but as people get older sometimes they take more of a backseat, Rod was still writing for Michael, and Michael was still singing his lyrics in 2008.

Source? Name of the songs?
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
Nonetheless, it's an unheard Michael Jackson song and i'd love to hear his demo..

Maybe it's not a demo. Maybe it's a finished song. But the demo would be cool too.
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
A friend interviewed Michael Prince. I won't post anything else as the interview may be released soon.

I've heard a rumour that Rod Temperton wrote the 3rd verse for one of the released songs. But that he requested extremely large sum of money for it to be released. Is that it? If that is true, then it's not cool. And how soon can we expect Damie_ Shield_'s article?
 

Birchey

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
3,393
Points
0
Location
England
I've heard a rumour that Rod Temperton wrote the 3rd verse for one of the released songs. But that he requested extremely large sum of money for it to be released. Is that it? If that is true, then it's not cool. And how soon can we expect Damie_ Shield_'s article?

You are half there, he did indeed write an additional verse, which was recorded but for previous "Business arrangements" Sony/Estate didn't bother to call him, they just cut the verse. I believe a certain book may contain the info, when that book comes, is unsure right now.
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
You are half there, he did indeed write an additional verse, which was recorded but for previous "Business arrangements" Sony/Estate didn't bother to call him, they just cut the verse. I believe a certain book may contain the info, when that book comes, is unsure right now.

Yeah, I know. I'll buy A Truth Untold book. So you claim that they didn't even call him? I've heard that they did call him but that he requested outrageously large sum of money - and that's why they decided to cut it.

And I assume that "for previous "Business arrangements"" means that they were pissed at him because of some lawsuit? Was he the one who sued MJ for Thriller royalties? Is that it?
 

Birchey

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
3,393
Points
0
Location
England
Yeah, I know. I'll buy A Truth Untold book. So you claim that they didn't even called him? I've heard that they did call him but that he requested outrageously large sum of money - and that's why they decided to cut it.

And I assume that "for previous "Business arrangements"" means that they were pissed at him because of some lawsuit? Was he the one who sued MJ for Thriller royalties? Is that it?

Okay, screw it. here ya go xD

During This Is It when they were clearing rights to songwriters for the songs, they were paying the song writers a basic fee which was Tiny, I think something like $10k or $15k, they were basically paying pennies to these guys. When it came to Rod he said he wanted something crazy like $5 Million for Thriller, now trust me Rod Temperton is loaded, MP said he is one of the richest guys he knows and certainly doesn't need the money, neither would he have charged MJ anything crazy like that. What Rod was doing was sticking by his principals and he thought Sony were taking the piss.

Anyhow, Sony needed Thriller they had the whole Vignette recorded etc. So they tried to do a deal offering a lower amount ($1 mil) I think, anyhow this went back and forwards a little, they offered him a cut of royalties, this and that but I think they settled on a cash sum of something like $2 or $3 Mil.

So when it came to the 3rd Verse on BOJ..............they didn't want to go near him xD
 

Lil Ced

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
432
Points
18
So Best of Joy has an additional verse? I love that song, and I'd always wished it was longer.
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
Okay, screw it. here ya go xD

During This Is It when they were clearing rights to songwriters for the songs, they were paying the song writers a basic fee which was Tiny, I think something like $10k or $15k, they were basically paying pennies to these guys. When it came to Rod he said he wanted something crazy like $5 Million for Thriller, now trust me Rod Temperton is loaded, MP said he is one of the richest guys he knows and certainly doesn't need the money, neither would he have charged MJ anything crazy like that. What Rod was doing was sticking by his principals and he thought Sony were taking the piss.

Anyhow, Sony needed Thriller they had the whole Vignette recorded etc. So they tried to do a deal offering a lower amount ($1 mil) I think, anyhow this went back and forwards a little, they offered him a cut of royalties, this and that but I think they settled on a cash sum of something like $2 or $3 Mil.

So when it came to the 3rd Verse on BOJ..............they didn't want to go near him xD

Thanks for the info.

My opinion: he is a very greedy man. It is Sony's fault that they didn't contact him for BOJ. But asking for those sums of money for inclusion of his song in the This Is It movie?? He would still be paid the royalties! What is his problem? He should have been proud that MJ made his song so popular.

BTW can a songwriter block his already released song by another artist to be included in a movie? Doesn't he just receives the royalties? In 2009 Sony still owned distribution rights and co-owned publishing rights with MJ for Thriller.

Maybe Sony did piss on other songwriters, but in the end he pissed on us - fans.
 

Birchey

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
3,393
Points
0
Location
England
Thanks for the info.

My opinion: he is a very greedy man. It is Sony's fault that they didn't contact him for BOJ. But asking for those sums of money for inclusion of his song in the This Is It movie?? He would still be paid the royalties! What is his problem? He should have been proud that MJ made his song so popular.

BTW can a songwriter block his already released song by another artist to be included in a movie? Doesn't he just receives the royalties? In 2009 Sony still owned distribution rights and co-owned publishing rights with MJ for Thriller.

Maybe Sony did piss on other songwriters, but in the end he pissed on us - fans.

Rod Temperton was not greedy, he wrote Thriller and has the rights to demand what he wants for it, without him we would not of had the Thriller video end of, and he has given us fans so so much and to say he pissed on us is well, kinda a redundant line, would be like saying he screwed fans by releasing the full version of lady in my life, narrow minded view. Fact is Michael was still working with him in 2008, Michael liked him, they were friends, he never screwed Michael out of anything and they produced great music together.

I think standing up for his own song to a multi-billion corporation who's sole purpose was to profit hugely from This Is It should be applauded.
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
I think standing up for his own song to a multi-billion corporation who's sole purpose was to profit hugely from This Is It should be applauded.

**** him and **** multi-billion corporation. What about fans?? This Is It (for me) was released for the fans. I don't care how much he earned or how much Sony earned.

And now imagine if he had blocked fans to see Thriller live in 2009 performed very last time because of his "principals" and money.

Also can you answer me this from my previous post: "can a songwriter block his already released song by another artist to be included in a movie? Doesn't he just receives the royalties? In 2009 Sony still owned distribution rights and co-owned publishing rights with MJ for Thriller."
 

Birchey

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
3,393
Points
0
Location
England
**** him and **** multi-billion corporation. What about fans?? This Is It (for me) was released for the fans. I don't care how much he earned or how much Sony earned.

And now imagine if he had blocked fans to see Thriller live in 2009 performed very last time because of his "principals" and money.

Also can you answer me this from my previous post: "can a songwriter block his already released song by another artist to be included in a movie? Doesn't he just receives the royalties? In 2009 Sony still owned distribution rights and co-owned publishing rights with MJ for Thriller."

He asked for a sum of Money, knowing Sony had to pay him, he knew they had the Vignette filmed and that it was an important song, its called "teaching the corporations a lesson" and he won. This Is It was released to make money, it was a fantastic insight and a great thing for us fans, but wasn't really representative of the rehearsals in general, but they did what they had too.

Rod Temperton worked with Michael Jackson over a time of 30 years, they were colleagues, friends and created some fantastic music, starting the wheel turning for such things as the Thriller music video etc. If you want to say **** him, then thats your prerogative, but I highly doubt Michael would or had at any point in his life felt anything other than friendship and musical magic from Rod, I salute him.

As for blocking releases etc, I am not sure. Rod Temperton has writers credit obviously, whilst they are both listed on one of the copyright claims for MJ's version. I should think the fact that the version on this is it is not the original master recording but a live performance of the song would give him the power to block it.
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
Rod Temperton worked with Michael Jackson over a time of 30 years, they were colleagues, friends and created some fantastic music, starting the wheel turning for such things as the Thriller music video etc.

I agree 100%. He is amazing songwriter and very talented musician. And obviously great friend.

But with MJ gone, he should still act professionally and continue to be his collaborator, colleague and friend. And a good man first of all.
 

Birchey

Proud Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
3,393
Points
0
Location
England
I agree 100%. He is amazing songwriter and very talented musician. And obviously great friend.

But with MJ gone, he should still act professionally and continue to be his collaborator, colleague and friend. And a good man first of all.

Thats the problem though, with MJ gone, he had Sony to deal with. He acted professionally, its business, Sony came to him and tried to pay him a measly amount of money, knowing fully well This Is It would make a massive amount of money (Which it made 100's of Millions in profit) the budget was $60 Million and they made over $260 in Cinema's alone, add to that whatever DVD's and Blurays sold there even more money, I think as we all know and thank him for creating Thriller, I think that guy deserved his fair share of $200 Million+ profit.

Come to think of it, I am wondering if Rod had to clear the performance on Bad Tour Wembley?
 

Scary13

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,227
Points
0
Location
ATLANTA, GEORGIA
On the topic, Quincy wanted MJ to write most if not all of the tunes for Bad. That's mainly why Temperton wasn't included in the final project.
 

OnirMJ

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
6,339
Points
48
Thats the problem though, with MJ gone, he had Sony to deal with. He acted professionally, its business, Sony came to him and tried to pay him a measly amount of money, knowing fully well This Is It would make a massive amount of money (Which it made 100's of Millions in profit) the budget was $60 Million and they made over $260 in Cinema's alone, add to that whatever DVD's and Blurays sold there even more money, I think as we all know and thank him for creating Thriller, I think that guy deserved his fair share of $200 Million+ profit.

Come to think of it, I am wondering if Rod had to clear the performance on Bad Tour Wembley?

I agree, but 5 MIL is a lot. Maybe even 1 MIL. He wrote 1 of the 20 songs that appeared in the movie.

Don't know about Wembley - because I really don't understand how music publishing/distribution rights and ownership of the music works. But I'm sure he'll have to agree on Thriller's 2015 3D theatre and blu-ray release. I just hope everything will go smoothly and without any problem.
 
Top