Hot topic What unreleased demos and remixes do you think will be on Thriller 40 Disc 2?

Derek1984

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the wiz’ also didn’t do well at the box office (despite winning an a award, and being culturally significant). yet michael’s involvement changed the entire trajectory of his career as an adult solo artist. not saying ‘the toy’ would have done the same necessarily, but there’s no way to predict these things for sure.
Well Michael acted in The Wiz. The Toy, he was just going to provide a song.
 

kreen

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“It first became “I Am Your Joy” and ultimately evolved into a song Michael continued to work on for years which was ultimately released on the album, Michael and titled “Best Of Joy”.”

I guess they decided to use a comma instead of quotation marks. Lol. They also must love the word “ultimately”!
Not only that, but the way they wrote "After not making the cut for the Thriller album, Michael continued to work on the song and it ultimately evolved into "Best of Joy”" means grammatically that "After Michael didn't make the cut for the Thriller album, he continued...".

It should read "After the song didn't make the cut, Michael continued to work on it".
 

Fuzball

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from Damien:

"The Toy" 🧵 In December 1984, while testifying in a court case, Michael revealed that he'd written a song called "The Toy" for the Richard Pryor movie of the same name, but that he "canned it" to focus on the Thriller album. "The Toy" wasn't considered for inclusion on Thriller.

Two weeks before testifying in the aforementioned court case, Michael filed a copyright registration for "The Toy" which was accompanied by a cassette of the track. I've heard a version from MJ's vault dated 1984, and it's almost identical to the song we know as Best of Joy.

In April 1991, Michael recorded new vocals for the track, including a new opening lyric. The original lyric, "I am your toy, I am your boy," was changed to: "I am your joy, your best of joy." The rest of the track is lyrically the same as the song we all know as "Best of Joy".

"Best of Joy," was considered for the Dangerous album in 1991, along with a number of tracks which didn't make the cut - some of which we have never heard. Attached is one of Michael's handwritten song lists from the Dangerous sessions.

After the Dangerous album was released in 1991, "Best of Joy" was sent back to the vault.

Then, in 2008, Michael requested that a copy of the track be brought back OUT the vault. The files that arrived included "The Toy" (dated 1984) and "Best of Joy" (dated 1991).

In November 2008, Michael recorded new vocals for the track in the bathroom of his suite at the Bel-Air Hotel in LA, including a never-heard alternate option for a third verse. New lyrics include: "I am the rock that stands on solid ground, I am that friend always around."

Michael also met with songwriter Rod Temperton around this time. Michael played "Best of Joy" for Rod, along with a handful of other songs, to get Rod's feedback. MJ's longtime engineer Michael Prince recalls that the MJ and Rod actually DID work together fleetingly at that time.

After Michael died, "Best of Joy" was remixed Ron "Neff-U" Feemster for the 'Michael' album. The vocals that appear on Neff-U's remix are those recorded at the Bel-Air Hotel in November 2008.

It'll be interesting to see which version of "The Toy" they include on #Thriller40 👀 Fingers crossed for a pre-1984 demo of some kind. And hopefully it's at least a little bit different to "Best of Joy" 🤞🏽

 
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dethorro

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Fingers crossed for a pre-1984 demo of some kind. And hopefully it's at least a little bit different to "Best of Joy" 🤞🏽
What exactly does he mean by this? Of course it’s going to be a pre-1984 demo…they wouldn’t release the 91’ demo on Thriller 40, would they?

The 1984 date was solely the date of registration, not of creation. There isn’t, as far as we are aware, a 1984 version of the song.
 

filmandmusic

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Well logically we will get the 1981 version with its original opening line. It will have different instrumentals and different vocals compared to the Neff U version. I am very happy.

Also I find it fascinating that Michael in 2008 thought of reworking a song he recorded in 1981. It means he likes the track a lot.

Actually there are 4 versions. The 2008 version is not on the “Michael” album, it is Neff U’s mix of the song that appears on it
 

SmoothGangsta

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Super curious why the newly recorded third verse wasn't used for the Michael version, seeing as Damien confirmed it is the same melody, just different words, which we have seen posted before.

MJ was obviously considering it heavily seeing as he re wrote a verse, and had a different structure being considered by Rod Temperton
 

SmoothCriminal1995

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Glad that The Toy is confirmed, can't wait to hear it and see how it differs from the version we have. It's exciting that there's at least two "new songs" on Disc 2
 

Pentum

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Super curious why the newly recorded third verse wasn't used for the Michael version, seeing as Damien confirmed it is the same melody, just different words, which we have seen posted before.

MJ was obviously considering it heavily seeing as he re wrote a verse, and had a different structure being considered by Rod Temperton
It's so odd how they excluded that third verse for the Michael version. I really don't get it. A few collectors actually have this BoJ version with the third verse in it. Would be cool to have it along with the Thriller version
 

Themidwestcowboy

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Not only that, but the way they wrote "After not making the cut for the Thriller album, Michael continued to work on the song and it ultimately evolved into "Best of Joy”" means grammatically that "After Michael didn't make the cut for the Thriller album, he continued...".

It should read "After the song didn't make the cut, Michael continued to work on it".
It doesn’t have to say that. It’s a null instantiation. The argument is syntactically missing but the semantics is still present.

Can’t wait to hear The Toy!
 
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Prince Of Pop

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Very interested in hearing The Toy. I like Best Of Joy, so hearing an early origins of it will be a welcomed addition to my MJ music library.
 
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AlwaysThere

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Super curious why the newly recorded third verse wasn't used for the Michael version, seeing as Damien confirmed it is the same melody, just different words, which we have seen posted before.

MJ was obviously considering it heavily seeing as he re wrote a verse, and had a different structure being considered by Rod Temperton
So I’m told, the third verse was recorded on a different day, and MJ’s performance was radically different from the first two. It didn’t flow properly, so they cut it.
 

SmoothGangsta

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So I’m told, the third verse was recorded on a different day, and MJ’s performance was radically different from the first two. It didn’t flow properly, so they cut it.
Didn't you reply this to me before saying this was your own speculation?
 

AlwaysThere

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Didn't you reply this to me before saying this was your own speculation?
Not to my knowledge. If so, that would be a very odd failure on my part haha. I can’t confirm this, but it came from the same person who shared the third verse lyrics with me (which Damien has recently backed up), so I’m inclined to believe it.
 

Themidwestcowboy

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Not to my knowledge. If so, that would be a very odd failure on my part haha. I can’t confirm this, but it came from the same person who shared the third verse lyrics with me (which Damien has recently backed up), so I’m inclined to believe it.
I don’t know if I believe this. Realistically, he had been singing this song, the same way, for over three decades, and if it is true that the melody was still the same with different words I have a hard time believing it sounded so different that it was unusable unless other factors came in to play such as location, MJ’s health (colds, etc) or something else.
 

SmoothGangsta

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SeriousFX

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Best of Joy is my favourite posthumous track, so I am really excited to hear "The Toy."

Honestly, Thriller 40 is already miles better than Thriller 25.
Well of course it's better. There's no terrible remixes (feat. rappers that didn't need to be there) nor misplaced songs from different eras.
 

AlwaysThere

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Oh okay, you were pretty insistent that it was speculation here.

Post in thread 'Best of Joy - Original Version' https://www.mjjcommunity.com/threads/best-of-joy-original-version.144920/post-4310817
I likely typed this out before getting confirmation on it. Certainly a valid reason to call me out on though!
I don’t know if I believe this. Realistically, he had been singing this song, the same way, for over three decades, and if it is true that the melody was still the same with different words I have a hard time believing it sounded so different that it was unusable unless other factors came in to play such as location, MJ’s health (colds, etc) or something else.
I don’t think “unusable” is a fair word to use, as it apparently sounds great. But bear in mind, this was just a reference vocal; MJ wasn’t looking to use it on the final track. Giving a different performance won’t make as much of a difference on the demo, even if it’s unintentional.

It’s always possible I’m way off the mark here, and I’ll own it if so! There seems to be some conflicting info going around regarding this track (this is the first I’ve ever heard November 2008 as the recording date). I’ll do some more digging so I don’t come off like a total ass here, lol. Very valid to question these comments since they’re a lot harder to verify in comparison to the sound of a track.
 

MJ5

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Songs from that era the Estate could choose from

  • Hot Street
  • She's Trouble
  • Nightline
  • Got The Hots
  • Carousel
  • Starlight
  • Slapstick
  • Behind The Mask
  • Mystery
  • Roll The Dice
  • The Toy
  • Who Do You Know
  • Learned My Lesson
  • Much Too Soon
  • I Never Heard
  • Don't Matter To Me
  • Why Can't I Be
  • Somewhere In Time
  • This Is It (not to be confused with the posthumously renamed I Never Heard)
  • Under Your Skin
  • We Are The Ones
  • Nymphette Lover
what about the leaked "there must be more than life" demo by MJ?
 

SmoothCriminal1995

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I remember hearing that the third verse of Best Of Joy was cut, when the Estate found out that Rod Temperton helped write it with Michael.

Rod was extremely difficult to work with over the use of Thriller in This Is It, I believe he charged them a small fortune for the use of the song in the film, knowing that a big part of the film was showing off the new 3D short film.

So when they found out his involvement with Best Of Joy, they found it easier to remove his part because they didn't want to deal with him so soon after This Is It.

I'm sure I heard that on an episode of the MJCast. Not sure how true it is, so make of it what you will
 

Dilan

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Not to be too negative but so far thriller 40 is looking like the best worst case scenario because we’ve heard everything so far in some capacity or it’s just a different take of what we’ve heard. I will be disappointed if the additional 7 tracks follow suit
 

AChanceToDance

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Not to be too negative but so far thriller 40 is looking like the best worst case scenario because we’ve heard everything so far in some capacity or it’s just a different take of what we’ve heard. I will be disappointed if the additional 7 tracks follow suit
It could be worse, we could've been getting leaked songs and re-releases only 🤷‍♂️
 
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