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What's the real difference between Mainstream Music

babykinsilk05

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and non-mainstream music? (I know there's an official title lol I just can't remember what it is...underground?) I mean all I hear whenever somebody talks about music "today" is how awful it is, especially the "mainstream" stuff lol. The surface argument is always something like "Mainstream music is crap" "non-mainstream music is better...blah blah blah". But what really makes "mainstream music" so bad?

I mean some people consider Beyonce (just using her as an example) mainstream and therefore crappy lol (not all people but a lot of people) while Janelle Monae is considered "non-maninstream" and therefore better/more respectable (love her btw), but what does that say? what if Janella Monae started to pick up steam and "break into" the mainstream, would she then all of a sudden become crappy as well?

I guess what I'm really getting it at is why is there this imaginarey line in music? music is music right? weather an artist is more well known then another doesn't make their music any less desireable does it?
 
Most of the music in this thread is non-mainstream because it wasn't made with the goal of selling a lot of records or getting radio play.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56710

Also I would consider music like polka, death metal, zydeco, jazz, folk, gothic, barbershop quartets, dixieland, and other genres non-mainstream because they only appeal to small audiences and don't get any mainstream coverage or Top 40 airplay. Mainstream basically means whatever is popular by the majority of people at any given moment. Such as hair rock like Def Leppard was mainstream in the 1980s, but its not today. Rap wasn't mainstream in the early 1980s, but it is today. Psychedelic music was mainstream in the late 1960s, but not today and so on.
 
I think when people refer to "mainstream" music they use it as a negative stereotype of overproduced and overplayed (usually pop) songs, at least that's my first association with the term "mainstream" music. Like Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, Lil' Wayne etc. I get where you're coming from though. I also get annoyed when I see metal fans or rock fans commenting on pop videos to teach us what "real" music is. Just because it appeals to a broad audience, doesn't automatically make it rubbish. MJ and Tupac are considered mainstream and yet they are well respected artists. I like some popular artists like Beyoncé and John Mayer, but I also listen to a lot of classical music and I love music from the 1980s. Sometimes I get the impression that people who can't stop talking about how much better obscure bands like Bleeding Cadaver or Rotten Corpse are compared to mainstream music, just like to feel special and superior the "general public", if you know what I mean ;) It's fine if pop music is not your taste (I don't like 99% of the stuff that's on the radio today either) but don't mock others for not knowing "real" music.. Like on Justin Bieber's videos there are always haters bashing 12-year-old girls for not listening to the Beatles or Led Zeppelin.. just let people listen to whatever music they like :)

I do think music in general is in a bad state at the moment, though. I hate how so many artists use autotune, so that it doesn't require real talent anymore to become famous. And in rap/hip hop it seems like you don't get airplay unless you boast about sex, drugs and money.. how many songs like Tupac's Changes, Dear Mama, Keep Ya Head Up etc. do we hear these days? So I do understand people's frustration. Now that a new decade has started, let's hope for a better future :)
 
LindavG said:
I do think music in general is in a bad state at the moment, though. I hate how so many artists use autotune, so that it doesn't require real talent anymore to become famous.
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Well there's not really an incentive for record companies to spend a lot of money on developing an act when millions of people just download the stuff for free. To parphrase The Buggles "The internet killed the album star". So they just put out music that is most likely to sell automatically. Before downloading and the internet started, people had to buy a product like a record or cassette. Also there wasn't really any competiton like video games, computers, DVD, satelite TV, etc. The record companies had an A&R department to find and develop talent, which has been slowly phased out. In the 1960s, Motown sent their acts to a charm school, lol. That won't happen today. Many of the old acts had a look that was different like KISS or even the sharp suits of The Temptations. Many of the acts today just look like they stepped of the street and look no different than the audience so they're not that excited about them. I think there's also more of a instant tabloid, blog, and reality show culture today that didn't really exist back in the days of 3 networks and a couple of UHF channels. The news was a bit more serious, and not tabloid like now. You didn't see Keith Richards, Ozzy Osbourne, Keith Moon, James Brown, Ike Turner, Elton John, etc being reported about on the news although they did a lot of crazy things. Nobody cared, the stuff they did made them cool to their audience. The public is a bit more judgemental about celebrities today than in the past. A Bette Davis or Joan Crawford wouldn't make it today, lol.
 
babykinsilk05 said:
and non-mainstream music? (I know there's an official title lol I just can't remember what it is...underground?) I mean all I hear whenever somebody talks about music "today" is how awful it is, especially the "mainstream" stuff lol. The surface argument is always something like "Mainstream music is crap" "non-mainstream music is better...blah blah blah". But what really makes "mainstream music" so bad?

I mean some people consider Beyonce (just using her as an example) mainstream and therefore crappy lol (not all people but a lot of people) while Janelle Monae is considered "non-maninstream" and therefore better/more respectable (love her btw), but what does that say? what if Janella Monae started to pick up steam and "break into" the mainstream, would she then all of a sudden become crappy as well?

I guess what I'm really getting it at is why is there this imaginarey line in music? music is music right? weather an artist is more well known then another doesn't make their music any less desireable does it?
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Music is music but there is a difference. Mainstream is simply music that caters to a mass of people. Its only purpose most of the time is to sell, not really for quality however there are some artists that make good music that so happen to be popular.

What makes spefically TODAYS mainstream music so bad is because its garbage... period. Its not because its popular really its because the music is terrible and Im tired of people minimizing it. I think people are free to like what they like and every music has its place in life but saying this music out today is the greatest ever, is VERY exaggerated. The reason why alot of music lovers always compare the two is because usually non popular is better because its of better quality. The artist is making music for craft, NOT for the purpose to sell alot of records. Lets take the two artists you mentioned as an example...

Beyonce is a mainstream artist to people because she IS and they might consider her to be crapppy because.. well she IS lol sorry but its true her music is nothing more and nothing less than the music that is out today but then again so is the rest of popular music its ALL the same. Janelle Monae is not a mainstream artist even though she is finally becoming a little well known. Even though Im not a fanatic of Monae I exactly like alot of her music and I find her to be a better artist than lets say Beyonce because she exactly puts out real music and not music just to get played on the radio or to sell and far more talented as far dancing and songwriting which is a BIG difference and makes a big difference. There is a reason why artists like India Arie, Raheem Devaughn, Musiq Soulchild etc etc dont get airplay and its not because they dont release albums and its not because there music isnt good. Its because they dont appeal to a mass of people and there not on popular music labels. In todays industry its about selling sex, selling sexy and selling an image. Its about blowing up big quick and saling.. its not about producing real good quality music and thats why some find people find non commercial better than pop because simply it is....


One of the reasons why MJ was so great is because he made good POP songs. He was very well known but his music stuck true to the roots and was good and appealed to alot of people. Artists today dont have that magic because to be honest there not talented and they sale generic quick pop hits and a image to sell... I dont know about you but Id much rather listen to true music.
 
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mjscarousal said:
I dont know about you but Id much rather listen to true music.
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But what's true music?

I know what you mean by it, but does it exist?

Billie Jean is true music
Like A Prayer is true music
Eleanor Rigby is true music

is Boom Boom Pow true music?
is Bad Romance true music?
is Everybody (Backstreet's Back) true music?

I dont know about you but I'd much rather listen to something I enjoy despite where it comes from.

If a reality TV show contestant makes a song I like, great. Or when N-Sync released Bye Bye Bye, I thought that was a great pop record. A real artist such a Prince had made some tripe that I'd rank far below most 'here today, gone tomorrow' pop acts.

Take Stock Aitken & Waterman singles in the 80's. They were deemed as tripe and to have no musical value whatsoever, but listen to them as they are still great pop records. There was some guff, the the great ones (production aside) such as Better The Devil You Know, Too Many Broken Hearts, This Time I Know It's For Real, Respectable etc stand today as brilliant pop tunes.

Sometimes the song is deemed as not real music simply because of the stable it comes from and who it's promoted at e.g Take That & Wham! Both of whom released great pop records, especially Wham!

On the other side, whenever an artist starts appealing to the masses, the crowd turns as most people want to feel they like an act not many have heard of as this apparently makes them cool (it actually makes them poncy). Hence why in the 90s, although tens of millions were still buying Dangerous & to a lesser extent HIStory it was actually hard to find someone who called themselves an MJ fan but was much more at ease to say they liked Prince.

I'm not a huge Beyonce fan but I reckon in terms of making great pop tunes (albeit sporadically) and having lots of talent, I think she's great.

In the real world, all artists want to be mainstream. They all want to play to stadiums and sell in their millions, they may say the opposite because it's cooler - but they don't mean it.
 
The quality of mainstream artists and music is extremely low at the moment.

The whole music industry is based on over hyping newer "artists" now. "Artists" today don't accomplish anything but they hail you as the greatest thing ever, when in fact they are just mediocre.

The majority of newer artists today are constantly having to promote themselves, appearing on every talk show, constantly trying to put themselves out their to make themselves seem like "they are so popular". It's all an illusion, the music industry creates "artists" who are nothing, to make them seem "talented, and amazing". Sadly a lot people cannot see through this whole illusion and buy in that these newer artists are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

My theory is that people will be into current artists because it makes them feel like "they are apart of something" more than they actually like them or their music.

"Artists" of today are canonless and have no mystique. I dare you to compare the mainstream artists of 1969-1992 and see the HUGE difference in talent and actual quality of music.

The majority of artists today don't deserve the popularity they are getting. Lots of People are sheep, people like to be apart of things rather than quality of music.
 
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Anyone who listens to mainstream music from 20-30 years ago and then says that quality in mainstream music hasn't dropped today then they really need to get their ears checked. I've noticed that some people will try to defend the decade of the 00's by saying ''There was also bad music in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's'' and yes that's true. However back during those decades it was 95% good music and 5% crap music. Now it's gone full circle and now a days we've got 95% crap music and 5% good music and saying that 5% of today's mainstream music is good is being very generous. The early 00's started off ok but ever since 2003 it's been all downhill ever since.

Today's mainstream music is ass!
 
Tony R said:
But what's true music?

I know what you mean by it, but does it exist?
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Yes it does exist.

Tony R said:
Billie Jean is true music
Like A Prayer is true music
Eleanor Rigby is true music

is Boom Boom Pow true music?
is Bad Romance true music?
is Everybody (Backstreet's Back) true music?

I dont know about you but I'd much rather listen to something I enjoy despite where it comes from.
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You missed my whole point.... I already stated that every music has its place and people are free to like what they like naturally. Everyone is not going to have the same opinion on the same music which is evident but I feel there is a difference between quality music and music that just flat out sucks.... Sure people can enjoy what they like but that doesn't make it the greatest thing in the world.



Tony R said:
If a reality TV show contestant makes a song I like, great. Or when N-Sync released Bye Bye Bye, I thought that was a great pop record. A real artist such a Prince had made some tripe that I'd rank far below most 'here today, gone tomorrow' pop acts.
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Mmmm you have this whole mind set like so many others that because its popular some people think it sucks which is not true. Have you ever stopped to think maybe the music just isnt good and not because the reason why its popular is the reason why people don't like it? That whole notion is b.s. because pop music is crap and its been that way for some time now. There is some pop songs and pop artists that I exactly enjoy but if someone wanted to ask me for recommendations for better quality or good music it would not be my number one choice at least in this decade anyway... It also isnt a preference that I listen to on a daily basis because Im constantly trying to dig up other better artists or listening to old school. I dont limit myself to the radio like so many others do and Im not saying you do but just saying in general... I also don't listen to what the media wants to shoved down my ears.. I listen to the music I love and enjoy and it just so happens Im most attracted to good music not crap lol.


A real artist such has Prince has had far more great songs than any of this crap out today so I dont see what the comparision was with that? Of course every music an artist make is not going to be great and like I said before people like what they like... I'll take a crappy Michael Jackson song, hell even Prince over any of this radio music out now. At least its something they created themselves and was from there heart. They wasnt trying to make a sell with it or all this other bullish that has nothing to do with music.



Tony R said:
Take Stock Aitken & Waterman singles in the 80's. They were deemed as tripe and to have no musical value whatsoever, but listen to them as they are still great pop records. There was some guff, the the great ones (production aside) such as Better The Devil You Know, Too Many Broken Hearts, This Time I Know It's For Real, Respectable etc stand today as brilliant pop tunes.

Sometimes the song is deemed as not real music simply because of the stable it comes from and who it's promoted at e.g Tke That & Wham! Both of whom released great pop records, especially Wham!
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l I understand that some people may not want to listen to a certain type of music because of promotion, label etc basically everything and anything that doesnt have anything to do with the song. Regardless of whether or not you like todays mainstream music or not... its terrible... period. This has been the worse decade of popular music. Popular music has always had its share of some good and some bad but in todays music world the industry is very different. I find it ridiculous how people defend it, listen to it and what to make arguements about it... All the singers do today is sell a image and make songs that sell... thats it.
Period.
Its nothing to jump and down. Its nothing to throw grammys left and right for and its nothing iconic.
Sure one or two might come out with a nice pop song but its not something spectacular... Sure one or two might have a nice voice but so do plenty of other singers. The hype and the recogition this music gets its not up to par with the music... its just over hyped nothing more or less. And I find it especially annoying when there are plenty of better artists that get nothing.






Tony R said:
On the other side, whenever an artist starts appealing to the masses, the crowd turns as most people want to feel they like an act not many have heard of as this apparently makes them cool (it actually makes them poncy). Hence why in the 90s, although tens of millions were still buying Dangerous & to a lesser extent HIStory it was actually hard to find someone who called themselves an MJ fan but was much more at ease to say they liked Prince.

I'm not a huge Beyonce fan but I reckon in terms of making great pop tunes (albeit sporadically) and having lots of talent, I think she's great.
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You share the same old tired opinion like alot of music lovers have that when an artist gets popular the fans think they suck lol.... Most of the time when an artist gets popular they begin to change up and begin to make music to cater to there new audience which is now more. So the music begins to change and most of the time its not a good a change. So naturally that is going to effect the fanbase. I see the point your trying to make that some fans stop liking an artist once they become popular which IS true because sometimes the artist changes and starts to make pop trash which is why they lose those real fans and thats happened with me to with some artists.


Lets take Marsha from floetry for example, Very talented, great songwriter and great singer. She was great with her group and the music was good. The group broke up and it was a dry spell for a while and she came out with a solo C.D. Her solo album is nothing like how she was with floetry and mind you she isnt even a popular artist.
So for some people popularity has nothing to do with why someone doesnt like a song or the music it could be because it just isnt good or it sucks...


What songs does Beyonce make that are so great and what is so talented about her? I find her to be very overrated and boring.

Im true old school so Ive seen it all and constantly digging for alot of music I havent heard or seen. Im 18 years old and sometimes I really believe I was born in the wrong generation because I never listened to the music thats out today... Looking at artists like Tina Turner, James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Tempts, Jimmy Smith, etc etc even blowed me away even current singers Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Bailey etc.. so when I look at artists like Beyonce or Usher it doesnt entertain me it doesnt appeal to me its just recyle thats been done countless of times and the music is just bland and very very very boring to me... If the general public would just take the time to find those great artists instead of looking at what is being forced down there throats they might find real talent. Today its so easy to impress people because they dont know nothing else. The only time I might listen to that kind of music is when im out at a party or a damn club lol I would not listen to that music by choice

Tony R said:
In the real world, all artists want to be mainstream. They all want to play to stadiums and sell in their millions, they may say the opposite because it's cooler - but they don't mean it.
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I disagree. I think all artists want to have an opportunity to give there music to people and become recognized. All artists dont want to become mainstream because if all did, All would sign on popular music labels there wouldnt be indie lables and all would make music that catered to the masses and not because they liked to. Artists what to break through and get people to listen to there music but for the real artists if it means jeopardizing there input they usually dont take the easy route and would rather stay underground... I would. Why would I change the music I want to make, wear skanky clothes, singing about silly things that mean nothing when I know that isnt me or just to get money? When I make music I want people to see me and the music... and I would find satisfaction in that small nucleus of people who did at least I know they appreciate MY music.
 
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mjscarousal said:
Regardless of whether or not you like todays mainstream music or not... its terrible... period. This has been the worse decade of popular music. Popular music has always had its share of some good and some bad but in todays music world the industry is very different. I find it ridiculous how people defend it, listen to it and what to make arguements about it... All the singers do today is sell a image and make songs that sell... thats it.
Period.
Its nothing to jump and down. Its nothing to throw grammys left and right for and its nothing iconic.

Sure one or two might come out with a nice pop song but its not something spectacular... Sure one or two might have a nice voice but so do plenty of other singers. The hype and the recogition this music gets its not up to par with the music... its just over hyped nothing more or less. And I find it especially annoying when there are plenty of better artists that get nothing.
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Yup, I agree with this 100%! :yes: , you took the words right out of my mouth.
 
babykinsilk05 said:
and non-mainstream music? (I know there's an official title lol I just can't remember what it is...underground?) I mean all I hear whenever somebody talks about music "today" is how awful it is, especially the "mainstream" stuff lol. The surface argument is always something like "Mainstream music is crap" "non-mainstream music is better...blah blah blah". But what really makes "mainstream music" so bad?

I mean some people consider Beyonce (just using her as an example) mainstream and therefore crappy lol (not all people but a lot of people) while Janelle Monae is considered "non-maninstream" and therefore better/more respectable (love her btw), but what does that say? what if Janella Monae started to pick up steam and "break into" the mainstream, would she then all of a sudden become crappy as well?

I guess what I'm really getting it at is why is there this imaginarey line in music? music is music right? weather an artist is more well known then another doesn't make their music any less desireable does it?
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you're absolutely correct. music should be looked at on a case by case basis. not whether people make a living at it or not.

some people tend to assume, that if an artist sells millions, then that artist is not true to their art. outsiders cannot possibly know that. they don't know the artist.
 
We're still only at the start of this decade (2010's) so it's still hard to tell what this decade is gonna turn out like. The decade right now still has an 00's feel to it because it hasn't had chance to come into it's own yet. So hopefully in about 2-3 years there will be a big backlash to the 00's music and things will change for the better

We can only hope
 
imo, pop music been dominating the music scenes for decades since the 80's well i kinda of flaundered in the 90's when R&b and urban music was in full force to audiences then Britney spears, nsync, backstreet and etc, came out in the late 90's to 2000's bubble gum pop emerged to a wide audience of young people if you going to do music pop music is where the money is that why beyonce went from R&b to pop music to gain more popularity and make the cash same goes into 2010's where dance/electro pop is the poplar tend now with the autone
 
The main problem with today's music is no melody. Today's music is really making me miss 90's Eurodance, it may not be a genius bit of music but at least it used really strong melodies
 
Whatever gets played on non-Internet radio is considered mainstream. Whatever is on Billboard's top 40 is considered mainstream music. Whatever the majority of people are into is considered mainstream music. Singers like Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber and Rihanna who make similar, often heavily edited music with similar and mostly simplistic themes (such as a relationship or crush, breakup, etc.) and are internationally recognized names among fans and non-fans and are a daily part of pop culture.

Non mainstream musicians often do not receive as much attention as mainstream ones do. They generally receive less budget for their albums because companies do not anticipate the massive sales that they do on pop artists' albums. As a result, their music is confined to smaller audiences and is often less heavily edited than the mainstream stuff. Because it is more "raw", complex and real (minimal voice editing, effects, etc.) than mainstream stuff, some people consider it to be less artificial and therefore better.

Non-mainstream bands and artists are often unheard of outside of their countries of origin, or recognized only by those who like the genre of music. For instance, I like gothic rock and I know of bands such as Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, Within Temptation, Epica, Xandria, etc. If you're not into that genre, you've most likely never heard of any of these groups. I am not a big fan of pop music, however, I know who Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Ke$ha, Rihanna, Beyonce and co. are, not because I like their music, but because they are a daily part of western (ESP. American) culture and the only way to not know who they are would be to live under a rock in some remote area of the world.

That's basically it, in simplest terms.
 
Is there really such a thing as mainstream today? There's too many choices and everything is fragmented into groups. In the past there was only FM & AM and AM was mostly talk/sports radio, underground music, and Spanish (in the USA). There was no satellite or internet radio. The popular conglomerate stations like Clear Channel only play one style pretty much. On Top 40 radio in the 1980s, you could hear Motley Crue, Tina Turner, Bryan Adams, Michael Jackson, New Order, Billy Idol, Debbie Gibson, Lionel Richie, Bruce Springsteen, Falco, Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, the Rolling Stones, & Salt N Pepa all on the same station. Today there's no variety.
 
analogue said:
We're still only at the start of this decade (2010's) so it's still hard to tell what this decade is gonna turn out like. The decade right now still has an 00's feel to it because it hasn't had chance to come into it's own yet. So hopefully in about 2-3 years there will be a big backlash to the 00's music and things will change for the better

We can only hope
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I'm hoping for the exact same thing..............or there won't be a music industry as we know it................it'll just be loads in small independent labels!!!!!




analogue said:
The main problem with today's music is no melody. Today's music is really making me miss 90's Eurodance, it may not be a genius bit of music but at least it used really strong melodies
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I think the word is Originality...........
 
Here's 4 simple steps on how you can make a hit song for today's mainstream radio

1. Make sure that your song as the same beat that loops over and over again
2. Write lyrics that are lower than the level of a 2 year old
3. Use Auto Tune because iTz s0o0o0o k3WL!!!!!!!!!!!!11111one11111!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. Use no melody what so ever! Melody is not needed in today's mainstream music. Now a days it's all about hot, loud beats!

Follow these simple step and you will have a top 10 hit
 
^^^^^If you don't like what's on the radio, don't listen to it. You dug up this thread to say the same old comments about melody, blah, blah, blah. There's thousands of albums released every year, and not all of them sound alike. There's even more old albums, I'm pretty sure you haven't heard all of them.
 
^^^^^^^^^^Thousands of Albums........


This is about mainstream music and not music in general!!!!!
 
babykinsilk05 said:
and non-mainstream music? (I know there's an official title lol I just can't remember what it is...underground?) I mean all I hear whenever somebody talks about music "today" is how awful it is, especially the "mainstream" stuff lol. The surface argument is always something like "Mainstream music is crap" "non-mainstream music is better...blah blah blah". But what really makes "mainstream music" so bad?

I mean some people consider Beyonce (just using her as an example) mainstream and therefore crappy lol (not all people but a lot of people) while Janelle Monae is considered "non-maninstream" and therefore better/more respectable (love her btw), but what does that say? what if Janella Monae started to pick up steam and "break into" the mainstream, would she then all of a sudden become crappy as well?

I guess what I'm really getting it at is why is there this imaginarey line in music? music is music right? weather an artist is more well known then another doesn't make their music any less desireable does it?
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Well, you are totally right and I see this whole thing a lil' different than many people:

To me mainstream is when one musician starts with something new, let's say autotune for example and then everybody else, all the other musicians out there in the world start to do the same thing, too! So that means they're all mainstream to me cuz somebody had an idea, a nice idea actually and started out something new and everybody else start to copy it - this is not really a big thing to just go ahead and copy somebody!
 
Krshna28 said:
This is about mainstream music and not music in general!!!!!
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If you stick your hand in a fire, and continue to do so, then you can't whine about getting burned. Turn it off and listen to something else. "Mainstream" means that a majority of the public likes something, so obviously the general public likes this music that you're complaining about, or it wouldn't be played. Radio only plays music that will make them money, they're not going to play all polka music, because they're not going to have much of an audience with that, so won't attract dollars from advertisers. The radio programmers only gives the public what it wants and have always done this. If you don't like what the majority likes, turn it off and find something else, or turn on another radio station. Last time I checked, there's more than one. I'm a vegan and the "mainstream" stores and restaurants don't have anything I can eat. I don't complain and say "All of the mainstream places suck because they only have animal products". I find places that sells food that's edible to me. Being a crybaby isn't going to change what's on the radio.
 
DuranDuran said:
If you stick your hand in a fire................
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Woah........calm down...........take a deep breath........


I was just saying that mainstream music is now a much smaller part of the music industry then it used to be...........

.......If you compare the industry between now and 15 years ago.....you'll find there are a far bigger number of genres available today. Majority of these genres are not mainstream........

.......Industry experts often say that the music industry is "fragmented" but that's just another way of saying "broken"..........

.......What the experts are really trying to say that more and more people are tuning into the smaller lesser known genres........when that happens.........the amount of money mainstream music makes decreases and therefore the mainstream music has become an even smaller part of the industry.........
 
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