When will they finally give up?

Richard76

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That's not true.
Yet no one can show such proof.
The proof is that Michael had nothing to do with these tracks! He had TWO list of songs, that he was going to release in his new album. And this list has 0 mentions about Cacsio tracks! We didn't even have video records, proofing Michael creating these songs in Cacsio basement! Also he had his own Water, Stay, Monster that make no sense at all! Most of fake tracks have lyric lines from Michael songs! Like "you are beautiful, you are wonderful, I love you so" in Fall in love, which was stolen from Heaven can wait!
 

rolerprod

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i think that one of the biggest evidance of those tracks being fake is the use of vocal samples from previous michael songs, michael never did that with his original tracks yet these casio tracks are full of these small samples of michael's voice from other released songs that are meant to throw you off, im sure theres also a way to show on an eq and average of frequencies of michael's voice and of jason's voice to determine who sings where and if not that then the most deeming evidence is their vibratos, they arent the same and could be measured (with tuning tools) as an average to show they arent the same person
 

OnirMJ

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Then show the proof.
Go to "Michael - The Great Album Debate" thread and read all 1307 pages, I'm sure you'll find all the proofs. It's been almost 12 years since that happened. There are tons of evidence that will be presented either in court or in Damien Shields podcast series.

 

AChanceToDance

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They're all pretty generic rip-offs of previous MJ songs. Never really understood the whole "if it was MJ they'd be good" thing.
Only Soldier Boy, Water and Keep Your Head Up were rip-offs. But to me it comes down to the chorus and the lyrics of songs like Monster and Breaking News, they speak accurately of Michael's relation with the media and they would be powerful songs had MJ actually recorded them.
 

kai

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Regarding "Water"...

people claim "MJ" is singing this song in this is it and they use it as a proof it is real...
But what he is singing in the movie doesn't sound like the song at all and also the melody is not the same..

I am pretty sure he is not singing any actual song.. he is simply answering when Ortega said "someone bring him a bottle of water".. he simply responds with singing "waterrr waterrr"...

this is something we all do sometimes..

Maybe it's just coincidence.. but i would bet that the cascios wrote the song after they saw this is it.. and they thought "hey, this could be a good proof".. who knows.

It's very obvious that the singer was jason malachi.. and he for sure did sign a contract to not speak about this.
 

SmoothGangsta

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Only Soldier Boy, Water and Keep Your Head Up were rip-offs. But to me it comes down to the chorus and the lyrics of songs like Monster and Breaking News, they speak accurately of Michael's relation with the media and they would be powerful songs had MJ actually recorded them.

I cannot imagine MJ saying his own name in a song over and over like that. The lyrics are not good and it's just playing to tropes, that doesn't make it a good song. Or singing lyrics like "mama say mama got you in a zig zag" in Monster. They're just generic "MJ-like" songs tbh. It's as if someone sat down and said "How can we make these songs as similar to MJ as possible" and then didn't do it very well...
 

AChanceToDance

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I cannot imagine MJ saying his own name in a song over and over like that. The lyrics are not good and it's just playing to tropes, that doesn't make it a good song. Or singing lyrics like "mama say mama got you in a zig zag" in Monster. They're just generic "MJ-like" songs tbh. It's as if someone sat down and said "How can we make these songs as similar to MJ as possible" and then didn't do it very well...
I can agree in some points, make some changes to fit MJ's standards and the essence of songs like Tabloid Junkie and Why You Wanna Trip On Me are still there. I really liked when MJ made songs that were a big "fuck you" to the media, I wish he made more songs like that throughout his career.
I am pretty sure he is not singing any actual song.. he is simply answering when Ortega said "someone bring him a bottle of water".. he simply responds with singing "waterrr waterrr"...
He did sing his own version of Water, it was confirmed by a user here that heard the song, it's not very far-fetched when MJ sang the demo of P.Y.T on the Dangerous Tour rehearsals, maybe the word water just reminded him of the song Lol
 

kai

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I can agree in some points, make some changes to fit MJ's standards and the essence of songs like Tabloid Junkie and Why You Wanna Trip On Me are still there. I really liked when MJ made songs that were a big "fuck you" to the media, I wish he made more songs like that throughout his career.

He did sing his own version of Water, it was confirmed by a user here that heard the song, it's not very far-fetched when MJ sang the demo of P.Y.T on the Dangerous Tour rehearsals, maybe the word water just reminded him of the song Lol

A confirmation of a fan here is not really an official confirmation..
MJ simply had a song called H2O which had nothing to do with the Water on the cascios...

don't you think it's weird that on all 13 cascio tracks MJs voice sounds not like his own (+ all the samples of older MJ songs) but on the other unreleased material he sounds like we all knew him?

I really don't get how anyone can defend the cascios etc..
 

AChanceToDance

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don't you think it's weird that on all 13 cascio tracks MJs voice sounds not like his own (+ all the samples of older MJ songs) but on the other unreleased material he sounds like we all knew him?

I really don't get how anyone can defend the cascios etc..
I'm not defending the Cascio tracks, they're fraudulent and there's no denying that. I'm just saying that I happen to like some of them Lol

A confirmation of a fan here is not really an official confirmation..
MJ simply had a song called H2O which had nothing to do with the Water on the cascios...
Dark Lady/H2O isn't the song Water, Michael also had his own version that had nothing to do with Cascio's version. The user that confirmed that was known in old MJ forums and they leaked a lot of TII info before it was known, so it's not a troll saying it.
 

kai

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I'm not defending the Cascio tracks, they're fraudulent and there's no denying that. I'm just saying that I happen to like some of them Lol


Dark Lady/H2O isn't the song Water, Michael also had his own version that had nothing to do with Cascio's version. The user that confirmed that was known in old MJ forums and they leaked a lot of TII info before it was known, so it's not a troll saying it.

I also like Breaking News and Burn Tonight.
 

rolerprod

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Regarding "Water"...

people claim "MJ" is singing this song in this is it and they use it as a proof it is real...
But what he is singing in the movie doesn't sound like the song at all and also the melody is not the same..

I am pretty sure he is not singing any actual song.. he is simply answering when Ortega said "someone bring him a bottle of water".. he simply responds with singing "waterrr waterrr"...

this is something we all do sometimes..

Maybe it's just coincidence.. but i would bet that the cascios wrote the song after they saw this is it.. and they thought "hey, this could be a good proof".. who knows.

It's very obvious that the singer was jason malachi.. and he for sure did sign a contract to not speak about this.
that's what i always assume and that's why i think a lot of fans "missed" it at first cause they didn't think much of it, it was said that that line from the movie wasn't actually the fake track rather an unreleased track michael had called water
 

Themidwestcowboy

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Regarding "Water"...

people claim "MJ" is singing this song in this is it and they use it as a proof it is real...
But what he is singing in the movie doesn't sound like the song at all and also the melody is not the same..

I am pretty sure he is not singing any actual song.. he is simply answering when Ortega said "someone bring him a bottle of water".. he simply responds with singing "waterrr waterrr"...

this is something we all do sometimes..

Maybe it's just coincidence.. but i would bet that the cascios wrote the song after they saw this is it.. and they thought "hey, this could be a good proof".. who knows.

It's very obvious that the singer was jason malachi.. and he for sure did sign a contract to not speak about this.
I think it was the user Travis5000 (?), who has heard many post 2005 songs, that said that he was singing an unreleased song called Water (unrelated to the Casio water track)
 

Eric

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Go to "Michael - The Great Album Debate" thread and read all 1307 pages, I'm sure you'll find all the proofs. It's been almost 12 years since that happened. There are tons of evidence that will be presented either in court or in Damien Shields podcast series.

Why hasn't anyone won a judgement against the estate if it has been shown in court to be fake?
 

SilkySnare

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I for one applaud your determination in demanding proof, especially for anything MJ related.
And although I consider myself a big MJ fan, I really couldn't go as far as saying I definitely hear fakeness in those songs.
However, there are some hardcore fans out there who really did their homework and presented lots of good arguments that speak in favour of the fake hypothessis. So even though I have no actual official confirmation, I too would have to agree with the majority on this subject and consider these songs fake.
 

OnirMJ

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Why hasn't anyone won a judgement against the estate if it has been shown in court to be fake?
They didn't get to that stage yet. They will show everything if the case go forward. The problem is that for many years the Estate and Sony are trying to throw away the case for idiotic reasons like first amendment and their right to free speech and the use of "non-commercial speech" etc. Basically, they are arguing that even the songs might be fake (they admitted that they don't know if the songs are real!), they have the right to sell them as "Michael Jackson" recordings because it is in the public's best interest. And idiotic statements like that. Really disturbing and disgusting that such people are running his Estate.
 

zinniabooklover

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They didn't get to that stage yet. They will show everything if the case go forward. The problem is that for many years the Estate and Sony are trying to throw away the case for idiotic reasons like first amendment and their right to free speech and the use of "non-commercial speech" etc. Basically, they are arguing that even the songs might be fake (they admitted that they don't know if the songs are real!), they have the right to sell them as "Michael Jackson" recordings because it is in the public's best interest. And idiotic statements like that. Really disturbing and disgusting that such people are running his Estate.
I hadn't picked up on this until the other day when I listened to some of the livestream. I was truly shocked by some of the stuff I heard. Not to be melodramatic but it made me feel quite sick. Sony's stance on this, insofar as I understand it at all, is just all kinds of wrong.
 

AlwaysThere

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“Burn Tonight” and the remix of “Stay” are musically great. With a new set of lyrics, I would genuinely love to hear Michael perform over them. Everything else is pretty’s average.
Go to "Michael - The Great Album Debate" thread and read all 1307 pages, I'm sure you'll find all the proofs. It's been almost 12 years since that happened. There are tons of evidence that will be presented either in court or in Damien Shields podcast series.
The album debate thread consists of audio comparisons and general timeline discrepancies. The court case has amounted to nothing as far as “proof” goes, despite several years of litigation. Damien’s podcast consists of interviews with producers and engineers, none of whom were present when the Cascio tracks were originally “recorded.”

There’s no proof the songs are fake. Even though we all know it, there’s nothing concrete or unquestionable. Just people saying, “It doesn’t sound right.”
 

rolerprod

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They didn't get to that stage yet. They will show everything if the case go forward. The problem is that for many years the Estate and Sony are trying to throw away the case for idiotic reasons like first amendment and their right to free speech and the use of "non-commercial speech" etc. Basically, they are arguing that even the songs might be fake (they admitted that they don't know if the songs are real!), they have the right to sell them as "Michael Jackson" recordings because it is in the public's best interest. And idiotic statements like that. Really disturbing and disgusting that such people are running his Estate.
but thats fraud isnt it? so how the F did this fly?

also side note IMO "stay" sounds like an old justin bieber song and the only songs that sounded fine was breaking news and water but i cant imagine michael singing any of these songs including breaking news
 
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OnirMJ

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but thats fraud isnt it? so how the F did this fly?

also side note IMO "stay" sounds like an old justin bieber song and the only songs that sounded fine was breaking news and water but i cant imagine michael singing any of these songs including breaking news
There is another lawsuit against Cascios and James Porte for fraud. It's still pending because of the lawsuit against Sony/Estate for distribution of fake songs.
 

rolerprod

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There is another lawsuit against Cascios and James Porte for fraud. It's still pending because of the lawsuit against Sony/Estate for distribution of fake songs.
sounds like an open and shut case if they admit they don't know who sings on the songs, this needs to be resolved already
 

OnirMJ

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The album debate thread consists of audio comparisons and general timeline discrepancies. The court case has amounted to nothing as far as “proof” goes, despite several years of litigation. Damien’s podcast consists of interviews with producers and engineers, none of whom were present when the Cascio tracks were originally “recorded.”

There’s no proof the songs are fake. Even though we all know it, there’s nothing concrete or unquestionable. Just people saying, “It doesn’t sound right.”
Going by that logic, there is no proof that the songs are not fake either. Also, there is no proof that other real Michael Jackson songs are real as there is no video recordings of him recording those songs (e.g. Hollywood Tonight, Best Of Joy, Hold My Hand...).

I think that if all Michael's past collaborators, producers and engineers except Stuart Brawley (who worked on Cascio songs) said that the songs are fake - that is a proof in my opinion. So Brad Sundberg, Michael Prince, John Barnes, Cory Rooney, will.i.am... even Teddy Riley and the list goes on.

But what is most baffling to me is this: Michael Jackson took years even decades to complete some songs. He always recorded the full vocals last, especially the adlibs. For example, he recorded one and a half song during his 1 year visit to Bahrein where he even had a contract and professional recording studio!!! On Cascio songs he recorded full 12 songs with background vocals and adlibs in few months (or less).

Also Michael Jackson recordings are worth money, especially work tapes and demos, e.g. there are demos of DSTYGE, WDAN, Billie Jean, Beat It, TGIM, WATW... basically all his songs that are either released or will be released in the future on some kind of anniversary album. And Cascios said, there is no demos, there is no multitracks, nothing - we DELETED everything because we needed space on our hard drives or our hard drives broke. But miraculously these 12 songs are saved and are sold to the Estate in that form. That is huge evidence for me. Their poor excuses = pathetic lies.

To me it is also a proof that these songs sound nothing like any real Michael Jackson recording or live performance or even a speech, but they do sound 99,9 percent exactly the same like Jason Malachi. And it's not just the vocals, the pronunciation is completely different. Famous Michael vocal habits like his breathing, beatboxing, mumbling, feet stomping, hand clapping are nowhere to be heard on those 12 songs. But if you listen to any other song or demo, they are there.

I would leave this and many many other things (statements by Jason Malachi manager, Jason Malachi Facebook account being "hacked"...) to jury to decide if the tracks are real or fake and if Sony is allowed to sell them.
 
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