Why was the initial bonus content of Thriller25 discarded?

Fuzball

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I'm quoting from an old RolingStone news-article:

According to reports, Jackson plans to spruce up the 25th anniversary addition of the album by adding four remixes of Thriller tracks. Those lending a helping sequined gloved hand on the remixes for “Wanna Be Startin’ Something,” “The Girl Is Mine,” “Billie Jean,” and “P.Y.T.” are Kanye West, Akon, and Will.i.am. Additionally, Jackson’s music attorney Peter Lopez says four leftover tracks from the Thriller sessions will be featured. One of the songs, “Don’t Be Messin’ Around,” is hyped as “killer” by *****’s ex-producer Bruce Swedien.

source: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...e-releasing-thriller-avoiding-bahrain-108700/

Did any of the T25 compiling participants, especially Matt Forger or Al Quaglieri, ever mentioned why only one new bonus track ended up on the final tracklist?
 

Derek1984

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Don't Be Messin' Around was later released for BAD25.
Got The Hots was released on Thriller 25 for Japan.
For All Time was released on the US Thriller 25.
I can't recall what a 4th track might have been...
 

AlwaysThere

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I vaguely recall hearing something about "Hot Street" being a contender. Can anyone verify?
 

Fuzball

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Don't Be Messin' Around was later released for BAD25.
Got The Hots was released on Thriller 25 for Japan.
For All Time was released on the US Thriller 25.
I can't recall what a 4th track might have been...

I think on T25 DBMA wouldn't have been just a rough demo but more likely a finished version like FAT.

As for the fourth track, I assume it would have been Hot Street. The song was registered in 2008 by Rod Temperton in the US & Canada.
 

Fuzball

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I think on T25 DBMA wouldn't have been just a rough demo but more likely a finished version like FAT.

As for the fourth track, I assume it would have been Hot Street. The song was registered in 2008 by Rod Temperton in the US & Canada.

It's still a mystery of its own, why Hot Street hasn't been released on Thriller SE or T25 as it was actually part of the final Thriller tracklist.
 

SmoothGangsta

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I think on T25 DBMA wouldn't have been just a rough demo but more likely a finished version like FAT.

As for the fourth track, I assume it would have been Hot Street. The song was registered in 2008 by Rod Temperton in the US & Canada.

Probably wasn't included because it would have taken MJ more effort to finish. For All Time was basically finished already.
 
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Derek1984

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Well MJ was still alive for Thriller 25 so I would assume he had final say on what got released.
 

smoothvillain

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I remember reading in "Remember the Time" the studio had all sorts of plans for Thriller 25. Michael wasn't interested in doing anything for it but the studio said he had to. He basically put off working on the remixes until the last minute which is why it barely got anything.

Greatest Hits and Anniversary releases are usually studio
controlled anyway. Seems like everything they plan to do for each project gets delayed until the next one.
 

ozemouze

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Don't Be Messin' Around was later released for BAD25.
Got The Hots was released on Thriller 25 for Japan.
For All Time was released on the US Thriller 25.
I can't recall what a 4th track might have been...
Got The Hots was also released on some King Of Pop compilations in 2008 (Singapore and Italy versions).

The situation with For All Time :heart: always confuses me: the versions we have (from the leaked Dangerous DAT and from Thriller 25) are obviously from the Dangerous era. I guess an early version was recorded around Thriller as well, but that version remained completely unreleased, isnt't it?

And to add to the confusion: why was Don't Be Messin' Around planned for Thriller 25 if it's from the Bad sessions?
 

Electro

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Fuzball;4286739 said:
I'm quoting from an old RolingStone news-article:

Additionally, Jackson’s music attorney Peter Lopez says four leftover tracks from the Thriller sessions will be featured. One of the songs, “Don’t Be Messin’ Around,” is hyped as “killer” by *****’s ex-producer Bruce Swedien.
source: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...e-releasing-thriller-avoiding-bahrain-108700/

Another example that most of the times comments about how great unheard stuff is can't be trusted.
Take away the teasing rarity factor... and you have just an interesting little song sketch that was rightfully abandoned. "killer"? :D
 

Fuzball

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ozemouze;4286765 said:
The situation with For All Time :heart: always confuses me: the versions we have (from the leaked Dangerous DAT and from Thriller 25) are obviously from the Dangerous era. I guess an early version was recorded around Thriller as well, but that version remained completely unreleased, isnt't it?

And to add to the confusion: why was Don't Be Messin' Around planned for Thriller 25 if it's from the Bad sessions?

For All Time wasn't even written back then, while work on DBMA started during the Thriller days.

Next, we move on to talk about “For All Time,” another beautiful and atmospheric song written by Porcaro. Steve outright dispels the myth about the existence of a version from Thriller sessions: the song was actually written during the Dangerous era, and then Michael recorded it for the first and only time.

source: https://michaeljackson.ru/steve-porcaro-chicago-1945/

Michael first recorded the song with sound engineer Brent Averill in the early 80’s. “This is one of the songs that was recorded very early, potentially for the Thriller album”, explains Matt Forger. “For whatever reason, it was not developed any further at this point in time. Michael brought it back and we did more work on it in the period of the BAD album. Some additional recording was done at that time with Bruce Swedien at Westlake. I did some additional work and mixes at that time for evaluation for Michael. “

source:http://mjdatabank.com/mjjnews/wordp...-capone-matt-forger-the-secrets-of-bad-25-en/
 

analogue

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The biggest missed opportunity for Thriller 25 was not releasing The Making Of Thriller on DVD. This was the perfect time to release it
 

Themidwestcowboy

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Another example that most of the times comments about how great unheard stuff is can't be trusted.
Take away the teasing rarity factor... and you have just an interesting little song sketch that was rightfully abandoned. "killer"? :D

I don't think he was talking about a rough demo. There exists several verisons Of Messin Round.
 

Nite Line

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Thriller 25 was a horrible release. In contrast, Bad 25 was a great release with 6 additional unreleased songs from the Bad era. Thriller 25 should have included Behind The Mask, Nite Line, Best of Joy and a couple other Thriller era unreleased songs/demos.
 

SmoothCriminal1995

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Knowing what we know now (mainly about Michael untimely passing) I'm glad they held off on releasing too many unreleased tracks then as it leaves more for now after Michael has gone, especially with regards to Don't Be Messin' Round, as I have high hopes for a finished version of that track.
The fact Mike kept working on it, showed it got under his skin in a good way, hopefully one day we hear a more completed version because the demo from the Bad era is some quite unique and special in my eyes. It would be fantastic to hear the progression of the song throughout the eras

As much as I look back at Bad 25 with nothing but fond memories, I do kind of regret the estate releasing 6 near complete tracks from the vault on an anniversary project, Price Of Fame and I'm So Blue should have been on a studio album in my eyes. They could have bulked out disc 2 with 3/4 unreleased tracks and then demos/alternative takes of songs from the album. With that being said, I don't truly regret their decision because I got to hear Price Of Fame which is now one of my most favourite songs of Mike's.
 

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Is this "best of joy" song from the thriller era the same as the one we got on "Michael"?

I personally am a very big fan of the don't be messing round demo. If a finished version exist I hope it retained that funky stripped down sound.
 

SmoothGangsta

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Is this "best of joy" song from the thriller era the same as the one we got on "Michael"?

I personally am a very big fan of the don't be messing round demo. If a finished version exist I hope it retained that funky stripped down sound.

Different song. Although I think is very similar. It's called The Toy.
 

dethorro

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Different song. Although I think is very similar. It's called The Toy.


So there are 3 versions that we know of, right?

There is The Toy from 1981, Best Of Joy from 1990/1991 and the one from October 2008 that we got on the Michael album.
 

Derek1984

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BAD 25 could've been even better... Tomboy, Buffalo Bill, What You Do To Me, and several others were left off. Make or Break is rough but still would've been worth including. Well maybe we finally get to hear the rest for BAD 50 smh
 

Nite Line

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BAD 25 could've been even better... Tomboy, Buffalo Bill, What You Do To Me, and several others were left off. Make or Break is rough but still would've been worth including. Well maybe we finally get to hear the rest for BAD 50 smh

You don't want to release too many unreleased songs on an anniversary album, as they usually don't garner much interest. You have to save most of the remaining songs for the posthumous albums.
 

JichaelMackson

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You don't want to release too many unreleased songs on an anniversary album, as they usually don't garner much interest. You have to save most of the remaining songs for the posthumous albums.

Thriller anniversary was an exception though, it was a massive seller and with more extra tracks it could have been even more spectacular.
 

AlwaysThere

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Thriller 25 was a horrible release. In contrast, Bad 25 was a great release with 6 additional unreleased songs from the Bad era. Thriller 25 should have included Behind The Mask, Nite Line, Best of Joy and a couple other Thriller era unreleased songs/demos.

Agreed -- Thriller 25 sucked. Five remixes, one unreleased song that isn't even from the Thriller sessions (two if you count "Got the Hots"), and a DVD of material we've had for years in mediocre quality. Bad 25 is excellent in comparison, faults and all.

BAD 25 could've been even better... Tomboy, Buffalo Bill, What You Do To Me, and several others were left off. Make or Break is rough but still would've been worth including. Well maybe we finally get to hear the rest for BAD 50 smh

Six unreleased and non-remixed songs is more than enough.

Plus, as others have observed, you don't want to drain the well on one release. The Estate likely wants to stretch out the material so we can still hear new stuff years down the line. Odds are Michael's kids will do the exact same thing once they take over.
 

mj_frenzy

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AlwaysThere;4286861 said:
Agreed -- Thriller 25 sucked. Five remixes, one unreleased song that isn't even from the Thriller sessions (two if you count "Got the Hots"), and a DVD of material we've had for years in mediocre quality.

NatureCriminal7896;4286867 said:
Fun Fact Michael didn't like Thriller 25.

Fuzball;4286871 said:
What?!? He actually wanted those remixes on T25. Okay, perhaps Will.I.am had persuaded him.

SmoothGangsta;4286876 said:
Pretty sure the remixes were his idea

It is a simple fact that Michael Jackson generally did not like having his songs being remixed, but on the other hand he saw the commercial benefit from it and he understood that this was necessary in order for him to increase his appeal to younger people.

That is why for his ‘Thriller 25’ anniversary release he decided to have some of his songs being remixed and even being re-sung by current pop artists.

It was also a way for him to give his songs (in their remixed, dance version) the opportunity to enter the nightclubs and being heard by a different audience (i.e., by younger people/teens many of whom were not at that point fans of him).

As he also confessed to some of his collaborators at the time (2007-2008), he thought that there was no point in putting out a new studio album unless it was the best work he had ever done.

So, for him, that particular ‘Thriller 25’ anniversary release during that period also helped him to gain time by remaining commercially current until he was ready for releasing a new studio album.
 

Derek1984

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You don't want to release too many unreleased songs on an anniversary album, as they usually don't garner much interest. You have to save most of the remaining songs for the posthumous albums.

This is where I disagree. How much does the Estate plan to really make with songs that weren't good enough to be released on albums? Is an unreleased demo from 1985 really going to be a huge money maker for the estate?!? By the time anything more gets released, a lot us fans are going to be dead. Seriously, just release what demos are left in a boxed set. And leave them exactly how they were left. This whole don't want the well to dry with unreleased songs is just lame.
 

JichaelMackson

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This is where I disagree. How much does the Estate plan to really make with songs that weren't good enough to be released on albums? Is an unreleased demo from 1985 really going to be a huge money maker for the estate?!? By the time anything more gets released, a lot us fans are going to be dead. Seriously, just release what demos are left in a boxed set. And leave them exactly how they were left. This whole don't want the well to dry with unreleased songs is just lame.

it's not just lame, it doesn't make sense. The wider public isn't going to buy those it should be purely for fans, they will eat it up. Take Bob Dylan , nobody of the wider public is interested in his bootleg series but the fans love it.
And the longer this MJ backlash is going to continue the lesser the chance is we're getting anything new at all. It's only a matter of time before the Estate will stop releasing anything because it is "bad investment" since LN.
Perhaps they're waiting to see the response to Taj's documentary before judging is is wise to release new stuff or not.
 

Derek1984

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it's not just lame, it doesn't make sense. The wider public isn't going to buy those it should be purely for fans, they will eat it up. Take Bob Dylan , nobody of the wider public is interested in his bootleg series but the fans love it.
And the longer this MJ backlash is going to continue the lesser the chance is we're getting anything new at all. It's only a matter of time before the Estate will stop releasing anything because it is "bad investment" since LN.
Perhaps they're waiting to see the response to Taj's documentary before judging is is wise to release new stuff or not.

Michael was innocent. Why let a couple of liars ruin something nice like an unreleased set of songs for the fans. If the Estate is behind Michael Jackson, who cares when might be a good time to release music.
 
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