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DO NOT, let the charges be raised!

I am not going tosign this petition. And I have my own brain, not just Tmez but I do believe Tmez too.
 
Asedora said:
I am not going tosign this petition. And I have my own brain, not just Tmez but I do believe Tmez too.
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That's perfectly ok. We must each follow our own minds and consciences.

As of right now, though, 946 people apparently disagree with you. We will break a thousand in about half-an-hour.

What is DIFFERENT now, from before the trial, is the testimony. This petition is an initiative that was launched only after the prelim began, and it became painfully obvious how much WORSE Murray's actions were -- even than we'd thought.

Also note that the petition was designed following careful research, and that the jury can be instructed to choose EITHER Involuntary Manslaughter or Murder 2. With I.M., Murray could get probation and never spend a day in jail. To very many of us, this is an unacceptable option.

Carry on. . . .
 
larry141094 said:
Do Not Raise The Charges!

To all who wonder if i'm a true fan at all, let me explain.
I am currently doing Law in University, and the topic the entire class is studying is US Law, and guess what case we're following? Yep, thats right the Conrad Murray case.

Now our lecturer has been in law over 21 years before he became a lecturer at the University. And this is what happened just before the term ended last year,
The class was debating about whether the charges on Dr Murray were sufficient, and whether Voluntary Manslaughter or even 2nd Degree Murder was applicable, eventually we got into a full out brawl, all the girls were saying "He deserves murder, it's justice!" and the guys were mostly sitting on the fence.

Mr Barry (the lecturer) stepped forward and put it like this.

1. What evidence do they actually have? Honestly they have testimony and an Autopsy report... that's it, they also raided Murray's offices and found vials of Propofol there too.

2. The prosecution must now, with the evidence prove without reasonable doubt one of the following...

a. That Dr Murray did not INTEND to harm Mr Jackson in any way and that he through his actions unknowingly killed Mr Jackson
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Autumn II said:
That's perfectly ok. We must each follow our own minds and consciences.

As of right now, though, 946 people apparently disagree with you. We will break a thousand in about half-an-hour.

What is DIFFERENT now, from before the trial, is the testimony. This petition is an initiative that was launched only after the prelim began, and it became painfully obvious how much WORSE Murray's actions were -- even than we'd thought.

Also note that the petition was designed following careful research, and that the jury can be instructed to choose EITHER Involuntary Manslaughter or Murder 2. With I.M., Murray could get probation and never spend a day in jail. To very many of us, this is an unacceptable option.

Carry on. . . .
Click to expand...

Murray in jail i s not enough Victoria. Like I said, i do believe that this case has to go under federal Investigation. I hope finally it will.
 
chanel05 said:
(i know im late to the subject)
I TOTALLY AGREE!!! I was stating in a nother thread how he isnt even charged with voluntary manslaughter so how is it gonna jump to 2nd degree murder. also the fact that cases like this usually dont even see court, it would just be something that would go before the medical board.
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Because the testimony, now that the prelim has started, is so much WORSE than we had even thought, in terms of Murray's actions. The testimonies have been consistent in revealing the patterns of Murray's behavior.

Everyone is free, of course, to do the research as to what Second Degree Murder comprises in the state of California.
 
I've always believed the charges should be heavier and after the testimonies from the last few days I'm even more convinced there's enough evidence.
I admit I'm not familiar with American law,but I've been doing some research.

I started here : http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/murder
Under most modern statutes in the United States, murder comes in four varieties: (1) intentional murder; (2) a killing that resulted from the intent to do serious bodily injury; (3) a killing that resulted from a depraved heart or extreme recklessness; and (4) murder committed by an accomplice[...]
Many states use the California definition of implied malice to describe an unintentional killing that is charged as murder because the defendant intended to do serious bodily injury, or acted with extreme recklessness during the commission of, attempt of, or flight from certain felonies.

What is called there "depraved heart" is apparently the same as abandoned and malignant heart.
So I went here : http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199

187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a
fetus, with malice aforethought.
Such malice may be express or implied. It is express when
there is manifested a deliberate intention unlawfully to take away
the life of a fellow creature. It is implied, when no considerable
provocation appears, or when the circumstances attending the killing
show an abandoned and malignant heart.

And I ended here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder
The elements of common law murder are:

  1. the killing
  2. of a human being
  3. by another human being
  4. with malice aforethought.
originally "malice aforethought" carried its everyday meaning—a deliberate and premeditated killing of another motivated by ill will. Murder necessarily required that an appreciable time pass between the formation and execution of the intent to kill. The courts broadened the scope of murder by eliminating the requirement of actual premeditation and deliberation as well as true malice. All that was required for malice aforethought to exist is that the perpetrator act with one of the four states of mind that constitutes "malice". The four states of mind recognized as constituting "malice" are:

  • Intent to kill,
  • Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
  • Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
  • Intent to commit a dangerous felony(the "felony-murder" doctrine).

Again,I'm not legal expert,but for me it makes much more sense than the definition of involuntary manslaughter given of that leginfo.ca site :

192. Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without
malice.
(b) Involuntary--in the commission of an unlawful act, not
amounting to felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might
produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and
circumspection.

I may have things wrong and many of the implications in the legal terms are confusing,but in my opinion,Murray's conduct amounts to much more than this.
 
JMie said:
as fot T-Mez' opinion, I value it very much and would like to hear what he has to say about the case after all the testimonies what we heard already.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that would be interesting ... but right now I agree with him, I really wouldn't want to see Murray walk. As much as I would like to see the charges raised.
 
i see no reason for charges such as obstructions of justice covering the crime scene etc not to have been filed. theres blatent evidence to show that. if charges were stacked as they should be the sentecne would at least add up to something half decent
 
larry141094 said:
Lets pretend for a second that i'm murray's lawyer... i can simply say "My client never administered a fatal dose of any drug to Mr Jackson, and i can say that with certainty because he had being doing so for 6 weeks, but don't just take my word for it, what motive is there for letting harm come to Mr Jackson? Hmm? is there any motive at all? No, there isn't, so if their's no motive, and prior medical incidents with Mr Jackson were at 0, then how can it be that this was done purposely? All you have to ask is what would you have done in a high stress situation? People's judgment is impaired, and my client rushed to save Mr Jackson, he wasen't thinking about procedure, it's a typical human response".
Click to expand...

But it won't work because it isn't being done on a hard surface:doh::doh:It's like I go to the fridge to get you a drink but I drink it before I get to you but you still get the bottle:yes::doh::doh:
 
so if it wasn't intentional, why would Dr. Murray leave all the other proper equipment at the office? You would think he would know to bring everything he needed...

Or am I wrong with that???
 
Autumn II said:
2. The judge may offer the jury a CHOICE of charges, i.e. Involuntary Manslaughter OR Murder 2. And I agree, this is what should happen. Let the jury decide. . . But without Murder 2 on the table, they have no choice but I.M.
Click to expand...

If that's possible, then yes, that's how it should be done.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
i see no reason for charges such as obstructions of justice covering the crime scene etc not to have been filed. theres blatent evidence to show that. if charges were stacked as they should be the sentecne would at least add up to something half decent
Click to expand...

Nor do I, see any reason why that was not charged.

Elusive, we have now passed a THOUSAND on the signatures, and that shows no sign of slowing down. Congrats, to all who helped!

And Selene? Thanks for posting your excellent research! Seems quite accurate, to me.
 
bowen9999 said:
Personally I don't think they will raise the charge to Murder 2 (although I do think he showed a blatant disregard for human life as he dosed Michael up then spent hours on the phone. He also clearly knew he'd done wrong because he spent ages trying to hide the evidence & lying to medical staff) but they could add secondary charges surely? Concealing evidence? Obstruction? IM is definately not a suitable charge for this man.
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thats what im thinking.. it may work better in our favor

StarTrader said:
Mez gave this interview almost a year ago. With the revelations made over the last few days in the prelim, the evidence against Murray has been stacking up by the second. I think if Mez was re-interviewed his opinions may have changed significantly...
Click to expand...

i wonder if someone will ask tmez for his opinion after the prelim is over

Autumn II said:
Because the testimony, now that the prelim has started, is so much WORSE than we had even thought, in terms of Murray's actions. The testimonies have been consistent in revealing the patterns of Murray's behavior.

Everyone is free, of course, to do the research as to what Second Degree Murder comprises in the state of California.
Click to expand...

i understand what you are saying and i agree that the testimonies are much worse than we expected. we still have to look at the fact that cases like this usually go in front of the medical board and not a jury and judge. im researching now.......
 
what i am scared of is that some crazed fan will take murray out before he gets to say a word and if he does get to testify then after that hes dead which in that case wouldn't matter much to me. But to NOT raise the charges is a mistake. he deserves MURDER 2 charge he needs to be in jail. His medical license needs to be taken away and he needs to be banned from ever practicing medicin again.
 
Elusive, we have now passed a THOUSAND on the signatures, and that shows no sign of slowing down. Congrats, to all who helped!
Click to expand...
yeh it was only around 900 when i signed and that was only less than an hour ago.

spread the message everyone
 
I will sign it, to show I want the charges raised, the DA can decide if they have enough evidence to prove everything beyond reasonable doubt, that's not my job, I'm not an expert. I'll add my name to the list to show I personally think the charges are not enough. They definitely can prove the charges that Elusive just said.
 
Autumn II said:
If giving the propofol in Michael's HOUSE, with no cardiac rescue equipment and no additional staffing, at all, isn't "dangerous conduct," I can't imagine what would be? The lack of concern for human life is obvious from the testimony, in many, many instances already.
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I agree. We knew that from long ago already, but yesterday Dr Cooper said it (no proper and BASIC equipment when applying anesthesia, patient dies). Let's remember the oxygen tank was empty (AR).


larry141094 said:
Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others
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I'm not a legal expert but that is my understanding from the penal code.
CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE
http://law.justia.com/california/cod...n/187-199.html

188. (Murder) Such malice may be express or implied. It is express when
there is manifested a deliberate intention unlawfully to take away
the life of a fellow creature. It is implied, when no considerable
provocation appears, or when the circumstances attending the killing
show an abandoned and malignant heart.

StarTrader said:
Mez gave this interview almost a year ago.
Click to expand...
Yes and he was talking in general in the video and maybe he didn't know all the details of this case at the time he gave the interview.

ginvid said:
With second degree murder, there does not have to be intent if the actions they took was such a reckless disregard for life that the known outcome would have to be death.

By having the charges raised, it does not mean that they cannot offer IM as an option.
Click to expand...
I also thought the same about the first point but didn't know the last the last one, that's very interesting...
elusive moonwalker said:
i see no reason for charges such as obstructions of justice covering the crime scene etc not to have been filed. theres blatent evidence to show that. if charges were stacked as they should be the sentecne would at least add up to something half decent
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree.
 
Last edited:
Selene;3180047 said:
I've always believed the charges should be heavier and after the testimonies from the last few days I'm even more convinced there's enough evidence.
I admit I'm not familiar with American law,but I've been doing some research.

I started here : http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/murder
Under most modern statutes in the United States, murder comes in four varieties: (1) intentional murder; (2) a killing that resulted from the intent to do serious bodily injury; (3) a killing that resulted from a depraved heart or extreme recklessness; and (4) murder committed by an accomplice[...]
Many states use the California definition of implied malice to describe an unintentional killing that is charged as murder because the defendant intended to do serious bodily injury, or acted with extreme recklessness during the commission of, attempt of, or flight from certain felonies.

What is called there "depraved heart" is apparently the same as abandoned and malignant heart.
So I went here : http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199

187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a
fetus, with malice aforethought.
Such malice may be express or implied. It is express when
there is manifested a deliberate intention unlawfully to take away
the life of a fellow creature. It is implied, when no considerable
provocation appears, or when the circumstances attending the killing
show an abandoned and malignant heart.

And I ended here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder
The elements of common law murder are:

  1. the killing
  2. of a human being
  3. by another human being
  4. with malice aforethought.
originally "malice aforethought" carried its everyday meaning—a deliberate and premeditated killing of another motivated by ill will. Murder necessarily required that an appreciable time pass between the formation and execution of the intent to kill. The courts broadened the scope of murder by eliminating the requirement of actual premeditation and deliberation as well as true malice. All that was required for malice aforethought to exist is that the perpetrator act with one of the four states of mind that constitutes "malice". The four states of mind recognized as constituting "malice" are:

  • Intent to kill,
  • Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
  • Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
  • Intent to commit a dangerous felony(the "felony-murder" doctrine).

Again,I'm not legal expert,but for me it makes much more sense than the definition of involuntary manslaughter given of that leginfo.ca site :

192. Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without
malice.
(b) Involuntary--in the commission of an unlawful act, not
amounting to felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might
produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and
circumspection.

I may have things wrong and many of the implications in the legal terms are confusing,but in my opinion,Murray's conduct amounts to much more than this.
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing the results of your research to our attention :flowers:

elusive moonwalker;3180064 said:
i see no reason for charges such as obstructions of justice covering the crime scene etc not to have been filed. theres blatent evidence to show that. if charges were stacked as they should be the sentecne would at least add up to something half decent
Click to expand...

I agree!

Signed the petition earlier today.
 
ScrEAm.Jack5on said:
I will sign it, to show I want the charges raised, the DA can decide if they have enough evidence to prove everything beyond reasonable doubt, that's not my job, I'm not an expert. I'll add my name to the list to show I personally think the charges are not enough. They definitely can prove the charges that Elusive just said.
Click to expand...

Thank you. And of course, this is for the DA to decide, but knowing public sentiment might affect that decision. It's a high-profile case, and he's an elected official, after-all.

I didn't think the charges were high enough from the outset (and I have a lot of legal knowledge, actually). But, after the testimony started coming in, that tipped it over into action as far as M.J.A.N. was concerned. Murray's behavior, as detailed in testimony, was OUTRAGEOUS in so many instances.

Also we need to remember that the jury can be given a CHOICE of which charges they feel are more appropriate. They can go DOWN, to I.M., but not UP, to Second-Degree Murder. If that is not on the table, there is the very real chance Murray would see no jail time at all, and that is entirely unacceptable.

So. Thanks. Every little bit helps. We are now up to 1022 signatures, and climbing.
 
I signed the petition, because I do believe the charges should be raised. But some of the charges on this petition I don't agree with, and this was mentioned before by Meserau, they need charges that they feel would stick, which is why they went for IM in the first place, it's something they can prove. Conspiracy charges? Conspiracy for what? They have to be able to prove Murray conspired against his client and intended to murder him. Something I think will be very hard to prove, and they don't want Murray to walk.


An example of this would be the Anna Nicole case that just ended yesterday. Howard K. Stern walked without any jail time, probation, community service or anything. All because the judge didn't feel as if the prosecution had enough evidence, for a conspiracy charge, amongst some the other one's he was facing. Many feel that the plumped up charges ruined the case for the prosecution, in this situation.


I can understand why some people may be against the charges being upped.
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
I signed the petition, because I do believe the charges should be raised. But some of the charges on this petition I don't agree with, and this was mentioned before by Meserau, they need charges that they feel would stick, which is why they went for IM in the first place, it's something they can prove. Conspiracy charges? Conspiracy for what? They have to be able to prove Murray conspired against his client and intended to murder him. Something I think will be very hard to prove, and they don't want Murray to walk.


An example of this would be the Anna Nicole case that just ended yesterday. Howard K. Stern walked without any jail time, probation, community service or anything. All because the judge didn't feel as if the prosecution had enough evidence, for a conspiracy charge, amongst some the other one's he was facing. Many feel that the plumped up charges ruined the case for the prosecution, in this situation.


I can understand why some people may be against the charges being upped.
Click to expand...


Thank you for signing! We are now above 1500 signatures.

The additional charges don't affect the primary charge, of either Involuntary Manslaughter, or Murder 2. They would be called "stacked charges," as was done to Michael.

"Conspiracy" in this instance does NOT mean "conspiracy theory," at all. I just want to be clear on that. (again, for those who missed it). In this instance, it means was there involvement of another person in the events surrounding Michael's death, i.e. did MURRAY involve any other person? So that would mean, did he enlist Alberto Alvarez's help in hiding evidence? Testimony indicates that he did. And, did he call staff in Texas to remove objects from a storage locker? Phone records will show that call. And so on.

(The Anna Nicole case was different, in the amount of evidence, and in many other ways that I won't go into here. Not a very strong case, at all. There is far more evidence against Murray, and the testimony is still coming in. )

It does NOT mean "conspiracy to murder." If that was the case in terms of charges, this would be a capital murder case!

My own belief is that Murray has a far greater chance of "walking" if he's convicted of the lesser charge. I.M. can involve probation, and no jail time, at ALL.
 
Autumn II said:
Thank you for signing! We are now above 1500 signatures.

The additional charges don't affect the primary charge, of either Involuntary Manslaughter, or Murder 2. They would be called "stacked charges," as was done to Michael.

"Conspiracy" in this instance does NOT mean "conspiracy theory," at all. I just want to be clear on that. (again, for those who missed it). In this instance, it means was there involvement of another person in the events surrounding Michael's death, i.e. did MURRAY involve any other person? So that would mean, did he enlist Alberto Alvarez's help in hiding evidence? Testimony indicates that he did. And, did he call staff in Texas to remove objects from a storage locker? Phone records will show that call. And so on.

(The Anna Nicole case was different, in the amount of evidence, and in many other ways that I won't go into here. Not a very strong case, at all. There is far more evidence against Murray, and the testimony is still coming in. )

It does NOT mean "conspiracy to murder." If that was the case in terms of charges, this would be a capital murder case!

My own belief is that Murray has a far greater chance of "walking" if he's convicted of the lesser charge. I.M. can involve probation, and no jail time, at ALL.
Click to expand...

Ah, I understand now. In that case, I support the charges being raised 100%.
 
There is no necessary to have intent for Second Degree...

Murray also displayed intent into hiding stuff from the scene, covering up and also lying in front of 911 doctors and hospital, not mentioning Propofol and benzos.
 
Milka said:
Yeah, that would be interesting ... but right now I agree with him, I really wouldn't want to see Murray walk. As much as I would like to see the charges raised.
Click to expand...

For me, seeing Murray walking on probation or spending few months in jail, is even worse... It's like a big twisted joke from A to Z. Like a big laugh in our faces. Better nothing that this joke.

So I prefer to risk and ask for more.



If we lose, meaning Murray walking, I know that he would walk anyway, because manslaughter charges are so weak anyway...

I also now that he is in 50s and the impact on career would not that big as some people might think.... He will enjoy early retirement on a beach. Sipping soda with baby mommas, giving a damn.... ridiculous... :smilerolleyes:
 
StarTrader said:
Mez gave this interview almost a year ago. With the revelations made over the last few days in the prelim, the evidence against Murray has been stacking up by the second. I think if Mez was re-interviewed his opinions may have changed significantly...
Click to expand...

Good. I have been thinking this since after the first day. We now have more graphic information, so Mez's analysis has to be taken based on the information he had at THAT TIME.
 
~Lindsey~ said:
It would be interesting to hear Gaz and the mods opinion as they are backing the petition before more people give their signature. Personally I signed it thinking a higher charge would be acceptable but it would be good to have this discussion if employing a higher charge would cause more damage. I'm sure there are more people sat seeing all this unfolding and wondering what the best thing to do is, when all they want to do is ensure that justice if done for Michael.
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I agree. I signed it too and was perhaps a bit hasty. If T-Mez says don't push for harsher charges we shouldn't because he knows what he's talking about.
 
Autumn II said:
That's perfectly ok. We must each follow our own minds and consciences.

As of right now, though, 946 people apparently disagree with you. We will break a thousand in about half-an-hour.

What is DIFFERENT now, from before the trial, is the testimony. This petition is an initiative that was launched only after the prelim began, and it became painfully obvious how much WORSE Murray's actions were -- even than we'd thought.

Also note that the petition was designed following careful research, and that the jury can be instructed to choose EITHER Involuntary Manslaughter or Murder 2. With I.M., Murray could get probation and never spend a day in jail. To very many of us, this is an unacceptable option.

Carry on. . . .
Click to expand...

Thats not fair at all, you say someone has every right to have their own opinion then you throw figures of how many people disagree with them into their face, and after reading what you said about giving an option to the jury, i agree that an OPTION should be given, the talks on your forums were of completely changing the charges, besides that i think a petition is not going to change anything anyway and on top of all that we might ALL think that murray murdered Michael, but after reading into more cases i have discovered this...

The charge of 2nd Degree Murder MAY be brought without proving aforethought with malice, or intent to kill, BUT the tricky part with the next sentence is a bit misleading.
A person may be charged with 2nd Degree Murder if they have shown reckless indifference to human life.
Now to a normal person "Ahh! Dr Murray showed reckless indifference to human life!"... well in a legal sense he did not, why? his actions were completely legal, he was a cardiologist administering sedatives, perfectly legal. And a reckless indifference to human life MUST be an ILLEGAL act in the first place (for example like you said running a red light), there also needs to be PROOF he KNEW that what he was doing may result in death.

Those are the facts people, take it or leave it, it is only practical to charge him with Involuntary Manslaughter because his actions displayed that he THOUGHT Michael was fine and that he did not pose any danger to him, and on top of all that the way he panicked shows that he was disturbed with what happened, imagine, you killed someone without intending to even hurt them, for example, your friend is dehydrated and you give them water... and they die, why? because they had Ecstasy and their brain was flooded with the water you gave them, how would you feel? Would you panic? yes you would.

Look i agree what he's getting is not enough, but he can't be charged with anything else
 
larry141094 said:
Thats not fair at all, you say someone has every right to have their own opinion then you throw figures of how many people disagree with them into their face, and after reading what you said about giving an option to the jury, i agree that an OPTION should be given, the talks on your forums were of completely changing the charges, besides that i think a petition is not going to change anything anyway and on top of all that we might ALL think that murray murdered Michael, but after reading into more cases i have discovered this...

The charge of 2nd Degree Murder MAY be brought without proving aforethought with malice, or intent to kill, BUT the tricky part with the next sentence is a bit misleading.
A person may be charged with 2nd Degree Murder if they have shown reckless indifference to human life.
Now to a normal person "Ahh! Dr Murray showed reckless indifference to human life!"... well in a legal sense he did not, why? his actions were completely legal, he was a cardiologist administering sedatives, perfectly legal. And a reckless indifference to human life MUST be an ILLEGAL act in the first place (for example like you said running a red light), there also needs to be PROOF he KNEW that what he was doing may result in death.

Those are the facts people, take it or leave it, it is only practical to charge him with Involuntary Manslaughter because his actions displayed that he THOUGHT Michael was fine and that he did not pose any danger to him, and on top of all that the way he panicked shows that he was disturbed with what happened, imagine, you killed someone without intending to even hurt them, for example, your friend is dehydrated and you give them water... and they die, why? because they had Ecstasy and their brain was flooded with the water you gave them, how would you feel? Would you panic? yes you would.

Look i agree what he's getting is not enough, but he can't be charged with anything else
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Sure, the charges can be changed, and stacked.

The figures are only those given on the petition, which is done on an entirely independent site. Like it or not, they will probably top three THOUSAND, tonight, and ongoing.

Mez has my respect, but his opinions were given BEFORE this devastating testimony.

The jury should be given a CHOICE, which is not possible with the current charges. They could change Murder 2 to Involuntary Manslaughter, but not in the reverse, i.e. cannot UP the charges if those charges have not been made. So that is what we are asking for.

The FACTS are, that Murray did so many things in disregard of Michael's life, according to testimony, that the I.M. charges are already a joke. There is no possible justification for him being on the PHONE, in the ambulance taking Michael to the hospital! NO ONE could possibly think this was ok for a medical professional. (and no, he was not talking to hospital professionals, but to his girlfriend!)

There is a new press release, everyone. Check the "press release" thread to read it. And thanks, to those who have signed!
 
larry141094 said:
Thats not fair at all, you say someone has every right to have their own opinion then you throw figures of how many people disagree with them into their face, and after reading what you said about giving an option to the jury, i agree that an OPTION should be given, the talks on your forums were of completely changing the charges, besides that i think a petition is not going to change anything anyway and on top of all that we might ALL think that murray murdered Michael, but after reading into more cases i have discovered this...

The charge of 2nd Degree Murder MAY be brought without proving aforethought with malice, or intent to kill, BUT the tricky part with the next sentence is a bit misleading.
A person may be charged with 2nd Degree Murder if they have shown reckless indifference to human life.
Now to a normal person "Ahh! Dr Murray showed reckless indifference to human life!"... well in a legal sense he did not, why? his actions were completely legal, he was a cardiologist administering sedatives, perfectly legal. And a reckless indifference to human life MUST be an ILLEGAL act in the first place (for example like you said running a red light), there also needs to be PROOF he KNEW that what he was doing may result in death.

Those are the facts people, take it or leave it, it is only practical to charge him with Involuntary Manslaughter because his actions displayed that he THOUGHT Michael was fine and that he did not pose any danger to him, and on top of all that the way he panicked shows that he was disturbed with what happened, imagine, you killed someone without intending to even hurt them, for example, your friend is dehydrated and you give them water... and they die, why? because they had Ecstasy and their brain was flooded with the water you gave them, how would you feel? Would you panic? yes you would.

Look i agree what he's getting is not enough, but he can't be charged with anything else
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Larry, Autumn is not forcing you to change your mind. She is providing you with factual information as to why the petition is viable, in the same way that you think you are providing factual information to fans to influence them to keep the current charges. What i would like you to do, if possible, is to present the new testimony to your last year professor and see what he thinks. His response will in no way change my mind about increasing the charges, but it would be interesting to see if his former analysis is still relevant. Ask him about stacking charges also.
 
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