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Murray Trial - 7 October - Day 9 - Discussion

I heard a bit of the audio again and I was right he did say that one of the reasons why he didn't call 911 was because they would want to know what happened and then he coudn't assit MJ. I guess he meant continue CPR would be difficult if he was on the phone! o_O Whatever, he still left the room minutes later to get help downstairs. Ugh! SMDFH
 
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I hope the "rent-a-pundits" on TV were listening to this week's lab results that prove there was no Demerol in Michael's body when he died. Finally, the truth comes out to nail the speculative bullshit that has filled air-time by people who prefer to fill in the blanks rather than stick to facts from court: that there is NO evidence of what my brother was 'under' at the time of Murray's audio recording; there is NO evidence that Michael was "addicted" to Propofol as some, like Dr Drew, have guessed; there is NO evidence that Michael's insomnia was linked to Demerol usage (a defense theory).
I have grown tired of the assumptions attached to the audio recording of Michael - the 2+2=5=slurred speech=addict argument that follows some kind of ESPN-style analysis that is not only a travesty to the truth but to the memory of a man who is not here to speak up for himself. This week, the EXPERT evidence shuts up those pundits, ex-friends and attorneys who have seemed determined to paint Michael out to be something he was not in the years before his death.
I'll say it again: events in 1993 and 2001/02 have nothing to do with my brother's death in 2009. Michael was not an addict. He was an insomniac desperate for sleep. We endure this evidence because we want answers -- and this vindication from the lab results is one of those irrefutable answers.
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Ramona122003 said:
I keep seeing the people on TruTV talking about how confused they are, but the statement from the tox guy wasn't that hard to follow. Especially with the defense trying to put words in people's mouths.
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See, I'm beginning to think that the defence is purposely being annoying and confused to make sure everybody else is confused also. And it's working.
 
Unfortuently, they will not stop u got that damn Rabbi on TV and Stacey Brown goin around talking about MJ being an addict. Aswell as Deepak today too! They can't read & simply don't care. But, I hope that atleast the other Jacksons will stop cause they were in the court room and heard the tox being read, that's all I'm gonna say.
 
riviera1992 said:
See, I'm beginning to think that the defence is purposely being annoying and confused to make sure everybody else is confused also. And it's working.
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Flanagan's cross of Dan Anderson was confusing to the point of madness. I can't help and there was a specific point to that, to divert the jury's attention away from the propofol and onto lorazepam.
 
Lie: He said he didn't know address, yet reeled off 100 Carolwood in the interview.

I have no idea why Flanagan/Chernoff were harping on about Sunday the other day, as Murray worked Saturday night....6 nights a week.

Considering Murray was prone to taping Michael, why didn't he tape him asking for for more benzo's and propofol.

As painfull as it was to listen to Murray's lies on that tape...it's probably the only decent thing he ever did for Michael.
 
I'm reading the transcript I'm getting MAD . He said MJ fired Lee because her child got sick and she could not come to an appointment with him and had to get the child to the hospital !!!!! He said MJ did not allow the bodyguards to use a bathroom at the property and they had to go to a gas station he felt that was "inhuman". Chernoff told detectives to call propofol milk. " ok , let's call it milk, just milk" and they kept repeating the word milk . Chernoff " he knew how to mix propofol, he knew how to infuse his milk, he knew the dose , he knew ....." OMG WTF !!!!!
 
" well I know that he lives at 100 North Carlwood. I don't know the zip code . To speak to a 911 operator would be to negliget him " WTF ?!!


He left his legs , that's probably when the perimortem abraisons on his butt occured . He was dying at the time .

" I did CPR then I reached into the bag. I quickly took a syringe and got flumazenil " AHA HE MENTIONED THE BAG , there was a bag in the bedroom !!!! he got a syringe from a bag that had propofol and lidocaine in it !!!!
 
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lemon662 said:
But you know what? How would it really be a big deal if, previous to then, he had occasionally smoked pot? It wouldn't be the end of the world. Sometimes people smoke it help them relax and sleep. I surely wouldn't think any less of him IF he did smoke it occasionally, lots of people do, I don't see it as a big deal or any negative reflection on him as a person, IMO. And I say this as someone who doesn't do drugs at all.
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Have you people been to California lately? Smoking pot IS allowed. You can buy it anywhere and sit at most outdoor cafes and just smoke. It's NO big deal. Plus it's my only way of establishing a regular beneficial sleep pattern. If Michael would've smoked regularly he'd be alive and well today.

This pot being so moldy must've been REALLY old and unused.
 
The cops wanted Murray to talk that is why they let him talk and talk and talk. They made him comfortable so he could just talk and talk and talk, Boy I bet you right now he pissed at himself for talking so much
 
According to sky news the tape recording will continue on Tuesday.
I think it was good that Chernoff interupted a lot cause when Murray mentioned the propofol I think it was Chernoffs voice that said how many times did you give it, how long for one month ...two. It sounded like Chernoff pushed him to be more specific, if anyone thinks it was police, please
 
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...the transcript includes the recording that will be played on Tuesday (what's going on on Monday?), so I guess we read all the lies.

Good job, Chernoff. I know that it is better to overestimate the opponent rather than underestimating him, but he really screwed up this one.
 
Detective Martinez : OKAY . SORRY . DIDN&#8217;T MEAN TO INTERRUPT . SO HE FELL ASLEEP QUICKLY, BUT HE WASN&#8217;T SNORING. SO HE&#8217;S NOT IN A DEEP SLEEP. <o:p></o:p>
DR.MURRAY: I WAS WORRIED ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE WHEN HE IS NOT DEEP, THEN HE COULD JUST QUICKLY WAKE UP. BUT I WAS &#8211; I&#8217;M MONITORING HIM. STAYED THERE AND WATCHED. I MONITORED , SAW HIS OXYGEN SATURATION. IT WAS IN THE HIGH 90&#8217;S, 90 PERCENT. <o:p></o:p>
HEART RATE WAS ROUGHLY IN THE 70&#8217;S. EVERYTHING LOOKED STABLE. <o:p></o:p>
I MONITORED HIM. I SAT THERE AND WATCH HIM FOR LONG ENOUGH PERIOD THAT I FELT COMFORTABLE. THEN I NEEDED TO GO THE THE BATHROOM. SO I GOT UP , WENT T THE BATHROOM TO RELEASE MYSELF OF URINE AND ALSO CONSIDER GETTING RID OF SOME OF HIS URINATION THAT HE HAD PUT IN THE JUGS OVERNIGHT. <o:p></o:p>
THEN I CAME BACK TO HIS BEDSIDE AND WAS STUNNED IN THE SENSE HE WAS NOT BREATHING BECAUSE I ALWAYS WANT TO LOOK AT HIS CHEST AND LOOK AT HIS DIAPHRAGMATIC MOTION AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS. CHECKED&#8212;I LOOKED AT THE PULSE OXIMETER RIGHT AWAY, AND HIS HEART RATE WAS LIKE 122 BEATS
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No 10 minutes mentioned . That was scripted , he did not give propofol at 10:40 am, he did not leave, those were lies created carefully around the timings of the phone calls .


WENT T THE BATHROOM TO RELEASE MYSELF OF URINE AND ALSO CONSIDER GETTING RID OF SOME OF HIS URINATION THAT HE HAD PUT IN THE JUGS OVERNIGHT
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. :upside_down:



he said because he left for a very short time he estimated that what happened to MJ must have taken place very recently thus he called it "witnessed state" he "witnessed" what happened !!

that damned 911 operator, Murray wanted Alvarez to come and help him move MJ to the floor but the 911 operator was asking and asking so he told him " just get here " and he asked Alvarez to come help him move MJ to the floor "because that WHAT I WANTED" !!!

Those damned doctors at UCLA they made the process SLOW, the doctor wanted to call MJ dead at the house , "the doctor did not want to spend too much longer!! on the phone trying to give medication, I figure that I wanted to give him the best effort" !!!! what the hell ? lol
 
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Dont know if anyone posted the picture's of Michael's Bedroom. But here are some.
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Here's The Master Bathroom
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In that transcript of the Murray interview the police say they also found two empty cigarette packs at the same place where the weed was found. I'm a bit surprised by that. I doubt Michael smoked cigarettes, but who knows?
 
roomdownstairs said:
There are so many inconsistencies from this interview it is unfathomable. I relayed it all back on twitter as it happened and it was truly incredible. So much doesn't add up, to the extent I am not sure I could list it all here.

What I am hoping someone can clarify for me though is this - did Murray say that he allowed Dr Adams to use his office on a Sunday to administer propofol to Michael so he could sleep for 5 - 6 hours? I know Murray said he left for a few hours and came back at 7.00pm, at which point he asked Michael how he felt after sleep and he reportedly said "wonderful" (which is total baloney of itself, given how people feel after anaesthesia). I just can't recall if he said it was Adams who used his office or whether he used the office himself.
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I just have to say something here. Have you ever had Propofol anesthesia? I have. And I can tell you that I am old enough to tell the difference between propofol-induced anesthesia and those older anesthesia agents used pre-1990.

Before -- I can tell you that I woke up really dizzy and with a lot of nausea (I had one surgery with the earlier agent around 1990). It took me a LONG time to feel okay even after I got home. Like, days!

Whereas, I had the propofol-induced procedure just over three months ago. I asked the anesthesiologist, specifically, "what are you using?" and he told me. He also told me "do not worry". It seems a lot of surgery patients these days ask about Propofol being used on them.

Anyway, let me tell you, when I woke up this time, other than the machine showing that my BP was around 99/68 (I am a small-framed person), I felt really good. In fact, other than the pain from the surgery, it was like heaven and hell in terms of the agent they'd used on me before and this drug (Propofol). Of course, I was on a breathing machine and woke up unlike Michael :(

All I want to say is that it's not difficult for to believe how good Michael was feeling with the Propofol. There was no lag time. I believe he could easily go 0-60 after he "woke up". Just my opinion.
 
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respect77 said:
In that transcript of the Murray interview the police say they also found two empty cigarette packs at the same place where the weed was found. I'm a bit surprised by that. I doubt Michael smoked cigarettes, but who knows?
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the marijuana and cigarettes bother me. I'm not sure why, they just do. I don't think MJ would smoke, so I think they bother me because they make me wonder if somebody was tampering? I don't know.
 
In that transcript of the Murray interview the police say they also found two empty cigarette packs at the same place where the weed was found. I'm a bit surprised by that. I doubt Michael smoked cigarettes, but who knows?​
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have u seen his bedroom , that's not a bedroom that's a storage lol

serioulsy how could he even go to sleep and function in such a place ? GOD what a mess . Still a treasure for the Jacksons , they probably divided the belongings between themselves , Rebbie was probably at the court today trying to get validation for the items she plans to auction on ebay soon , you know documentation to ask for a "proper" price !!!
 
respect77 said:
In that transcript of the Murray interview the police say they also found two empty cigarette packs at the same place where the weed was found. I'm a bit surprised by that. I doubt Michael smoked cigarettes, but who knows?
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I am guessing they belonged to the previous inhabitants of the house
 
Soundmind said:
No 10 minutes mentioned . That was scripted , he did not give propofol at 10:40 am, he did not leave, those were lies created carefully around the timings of the phone calls .

. :upside_down:
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At the time the interview was given, how could it possibly been "scripted around phone calls," when Murray clearly said, "no phones were working?" I do think that his lawyers had almost nothing to work with. Clearly Murray never watched a cop show on tv, where phone records are easy to obtain?

Soundmind said:
that damned 911 operator, Murray wanted Alvarez to come and help him move MJ to the floor but the 911 operator was asking and asking so he told him " just get here " and he asked Alvarez to come help him move MJ to the floor "because that WHAT I WANTED" !!!
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You are being facetious, right? Hopefully, you are? Murray is six foot five inches, weighs over two-hundred pounds, and could have easily dragged Michael to the floor, in that life-or-death situation. NOBODY needed to help Murray move Michael to the floor. Hell's bells, I not very big, but I would have dragged Michael to the floor by the hair, if necessary!
Soundmind said:
Those damned doctors at UCLA they made the process SLOW, the doctor wanted to call MJ dead at the house , "the doctor did not want to spend too much longer!! on the phone trying to give medication, I figure that I wanted to give him the best effort" !!!! what the hell ? lol
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Sorry, but I really can't tell if you are being facetious here? Hopefully, you are? Michael WAS dead at the house. He was dead when EMTs got there. Calling TOD then, was entirely appropriate. Anything else was for show, by a panicking Murray.

Murray will not testify. He doesn't HAVE TO! That tape is his testimony. I have never heard so many lies from one person, in my life!
 
But all I want to see is that it's not difficult for to believe how good Michael was feeling with the Propofol. There was no lag time. I believe he could easily go 0-60 after he "woke up". Just my opinion.
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Thank you and you are right. People should stop acting like MJ had other choice, Lee said he was very much informed about everything regarding insomnia and he went with her through things and told her what worked and what did not work , HE TRIED HE SEARCHED HE ASKED DOCTORS and nothing worked for him. Well lorazepam worked but he can't function using lorazepam.

People say he was crazy to use propofol, I on the other had don't find that insane. It made him go to sleep and if given under monitoring it's a great THE PERFECT drug. I understand him completely.
 
Autumn II said:
At the time the interview was given, how could it possibly been "scripted around phone calls," when Murray clearly said, "no phones were working?" I do think that his lawyers had almost nothing to work with. Clearly Murray never watched a cop show on tv, where phone records are easy to obtain?



You are being facetious, right? Hopefully, you are? Murray is six foot five inches, weighs over two-hundred pounds, and could have easily dragged Michael to the floor, in that life-or-death situation. NOBODY needed to help Murray move Michael to the floor. Hell's bells, I not very big, but I would have dragged Michael to the floor by the hair, if necessary!



Sorry, but I really can't tell if you are being facetious here? Hopefully, you are? Michael WAS dead at the house. He was dead when EMTs got there. Calling TOD then, was entirely appropriate. Anything else was for show, by a panicking Murray.

Murray will not testify. He doesn't HAVE TO! That tape is his testimony. I have never heard so many lies from one person, in my life!
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here we go again.
 
No, seriously. I really can't tell if you were being ironic, or not? Surely you don't think that Murray could NOT lift Michael down from the bed? And that was irony? I'm actually SERIOUS, that I can't tell from your post? And if you were being ironic? GREAT POST, then.

But if you were serious? Surely a person who was six foot five, and in great shape, could haul little Michael down from a bed and do CPR correctly, and save his LIFE?
 
Now, I am sure if I understood correctly. And maybe I should wait till I am sure. But it seems that it was Murray's lawyer idea to call propofol "milk".

If this is true, I have always maintained that the whole milk thing was to hark back to the Jesus Juice saga to add legitimacy to Murray's claim. People find it easier to believe because it is shows a pattern of behaviour.

That lawyer is slick and he is going to "milk" this opportunity for all it is worth!
 
Soundmind said:
I'm reading the transcript I'm getting MAD . He said MJ fired Lee because her child got sick and she could not come to an appointment with him and had to get the child to the hospital !!!!! He said MJ did not allow the bodyguards to use a bathroom at the property and they had to go to a gas station he felt that was "inhuman". Chernoff told detectives to call propofol milk. " ok , let's call it milk, just milk" and they kept repeating the word milk . Chernoff " he knew how to mix propofol, he knew how to infuse his milk, he knew the dose , he knew ....." OMG WTF !!!!!
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I personally laughed at that part. Michael who devoted his entire life to children fired a person for taking care of their ill child, really Murray. Also, the same person who gave his staff free ipods and other gifts made them go outside to the restroom. God, Michael was an asshole going to Murray's story.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that Michael knew all this stuff about propofol including how to mix it, but he somehow OD himself when Murray wasn't looking. Really, if he knew more than Murray, Michael must had known that mixing other drugs with propofol wasn't going to end well.

Really, how dumb is Murray's defense.
 
But if you were serious? Surely a person who was six foot five, and in great shape, could haul little Michael down from a bed and do CPR correctly, and save his LIFE?
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Excatly! michael wasnt heavy in weight for murray not to able to lift him
 
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