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Official MJJC Support Thread - Japanese Tsunami

Webbie said:
Official press release by TEPCO:


Furthermore, today at 3:29PM, radiation dose measured at site boundary has [/B]
exceeded the limiting value. Therefore, at 4:17PM, it was determined that
a specific incident stipulated in article 15, clause 1 has occurred.

We will endeavor to secure the safety and alongside, continue monitoring
the environment of the site periphery.
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anyone knows what the " article 15, clause 1 " is ?
 
Milka said:
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/resources/legislativeframework/files/EmergencyPreparedness.pdf

Don't ask me to explain it though, I'm still trying to make sense of it. ;)
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thank you ! My understanding :

Article 15 clause 1 : says that in case of a nuclear emergency, they have to inform the government.

Article 2 defines what a nuclear emargency is :
nuclear emergency situation" means a situation in which radioactive
materials or radiation at an abnormal level has been released outside the
nuclear site of a nuclear operator
Click to expand...
what I don't understand is what a nuclear operator is.

A nuclear emergency is different from a nuclear disaster , still from article 2:
"nuclear disaster" means damage caused to the lives, bodies or properties of
citizens due to a nuclear emergency situation;
Click to expand...
 
bouee said:
anyone knows what the " article 15, clause 1 " is ?
Click to expand...

I'll write it down in my own words.

Some important points:

Step 1 = clause 1:

When a nuclear emergency situation occured, the minister will notify the prime minister and submit all necessary information (incl the radiation dose reported/measured/detected)

Step 2 = clause 2:

As soon as the prime minister has received the information and document reports, the prime Minister will immediately issue an official announcement (=Notification of Activating Nuclear Emergency Organization)

This needs to describe the areas where immediate emergency is required as well as a summary of the situation.

Step 3 = clause 3:

The prime minister now needs to give evacuation instructions to the mayors and governors who have jurisdiction over the affected areas.

Step 4 = clause 4:

When the prime minister thinks that there the risk on radiation is gone, he will contact the Nuclear Safety Commission and issue an official announcement to cancel the nuclear emergency situation.

Does this help?

bouee said:
what I don't understand is what a nuclear operator is.
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Regarding nuclear operators:

Nuclear operators control and monitor boilers, turbines, generators, and auxiliary equipment in power-generating plants. They distribute power among generators, regulate the output from several generators, and monitor instruments to maintain voltage and regulate electricity flows from the plant. When demand changes, nuclear operators communicate with dispatchers at distribution centers to match production with system the load. On the basis of this communication, they start and stop generators, altering the amount of electricity output. They also go on rounds to check that everything in the plant is operating correctly and keep records of switching operations and loads on generators, lines, and transformers. In all of these tasks, they use computers to report unusual incidents, malfunctioning equipment, or maintenance performed during their shifts.
 
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The Japanese government has a responsibility to disseminate accurate information. I suspect this is not happening. They have evacuated up to twelve miles around the plant, and are handing out the iodine tablets that help in preventing thyroid cancer. (there are about 88,000 people in that twelve miles. The infrastructure is damaged, including roads and railways. So, where will they GO, and how?) But then the "news" goes on to say there has been "no significant release of radioactivity." So, which IS it? I think the Japanese people, and the world, have a right to know EXACTLY the scope of this nuclear emergency, and the potential effects on other countries. And, we deserve to know in a timely way.

The nuclear power industry is big business. The world's people DESERVE accurate and timely information. This is an event that has the potential of affecting not ONLY Japan.

Guys, if news filters in please post it? U.S. tv isn't reporting much.

Anyone here speak JAPANESE? And can monitor Japanese broadcasts? (thanks in advance, from us ALL)
 
Autumn II said:
The Japanese government has a responsibility to disseminate accurate information. I suspect this is not happening.
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I have not heard anything from them.

There could be 2 reasons :

there is a major problem, they are dealing with it, and do not want panick on top of it.

They are taking precautions in case a "small" incident gets worse, or because nothing happened yet but might happen.

I will post updates from French tv here.
 
Latest news report here in my country:

9500 people are missing in Minamisanriku. Rescue teams are now searching for them, but they have not yet succeeded in finding them.
The Japanese government has selected 3 victims out of 90, for research regarding radioactivity.They fear that they may have indeed been affected.

According to dr. Irwin Redlener of the Disaster Preparedness Institute (Columbia University), the radioactivity is very, very dangerous for the people living within 12 miles of the plant.
 
I suspect the news we are getting is either incomplete, or inaccurate. "Official" reports from Japan say there is minimal danger, but yet they are conducting evacuations, giving out iodine tablets, warning people to wash the rain from their skins (with WHAT? Is there running water?), and so on. (How are they going to "evacuate," with the huge damage to infrastructure?)

This board is a large, international board, and in that sense is a great resource. If anyone here speaks JAPANESE, it would be greatly appreciated if they could monitor Japanese media and keep us apprised of what they are saying. For example, the translation of the video that was posted?

Translations would be very much appreciated.
 
Japanese people have just been warned for a new tsunami which would hit the nord-east of the country again.

There was also a large ship missing since yesterday. This morning, rescue workers have found the ship and all 81 people on board survived.

According to Kyodo (Japanese press) 1200 people died so far, but they fear for almost 1700 by now. Officially, the government only mentions 433.

Autumn, I'm sorry, I don't speak Japanese.
 
Autumn II said:
The Japanese government has a responsibility to disseminate accurate information. I suspect this is not happening.
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It probably isn't. Not that that's a Japanese problem, that's what always happens in situations like this one.

Autumn II said:
They have evacuated up to twelve miles around the plant,
Click to expand...

They COULD just be very careful. But maybe not.

Autumn II said:
and are handing out the iodine tablets that help in preventing thyroid cancer.
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Could also be just a precaution. Hopefully.

Autumn II said:
(there are about 88,000 people in that twelve miles. The infrastructure is damaged, including roads and railways. So, where will they GO, and how?) But then the "news" goes on to say there has been "no significant release of radioactivity." So, which IS it? I think the Japanese people, and the world, have a right to know EXACTLY the scope of this nuclear emergency, and the potential effects on other countries. And, we deserve to know in a timely way.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest fear right now is that there is or will be a lot of radiation and that the wind will blow the radioactive cloud south and that it will end up in Tokyo. 35 million people live in and around Tokyo and it's impossible to evacute them. They are hoping for west winds, the cloud would end up above the ocean and just "rain out" - which would still be a natural disaster, but it wouldn't cost a lot of human lives.

Autumn II said:
The nuclear power industry is big business. The world's people DESERVE accurate and timely information. This is an event that has the potential of affecting not ONLY Japan.
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It will mostly affect Japan. As long as there is no east wind, I guess.

P.S. Thanks, Webbie!
 
Webbie said:
Japanese people have just been warned for a new tsunami which would hit the nord-east of the country again.

Autumn, I'm sorry, I don't speak Japanese.
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My heart goes out so TOTALLY to the Japanese people. (I used to live there, as a child, and feel a special connection.) We must pray, send them our positivity, and also our donations (I posted a list of reliable charities, several posts back now).

Surely there is someone on this board who speaks Japanese? It's SUCH an international board. Anyone? Or, anyone know anyone who speaks Japanese? If only to translate the video that was posted, of the explosion?
 
The Japanese minister Naoto Kan flew over Fukushima with a helicopter today, a flight which took more then 4 hours.

During a broadcast, he also asked the people to remain calm and promised to do whatever it takes to protect the health of the Japanese people.

He is also trying to create emergency funds to ensure the continuity of the rescue operation.

Milka said:
P.S. Thanks, Webbie!
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You're most welcome, Milka.
 
Autumn II said:
If only to translate the video that was posted, of the explosion?
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The explosion ... a while after the explosion it was said that shortly before it the Earth was shaking, possibly another after shock (they'll probably happen for quite some time, some still very strong), and yes, I think they can cause more tsunamis too. Then the explosion happened. There has been speculation about what has been damaged for hours now, the government probably knows, but so far nobody else seems to know. It's still unclear if the protective shell is still intact or not (if not, then there will be and probably already is a lot of radiation leaking). If it's still intact, there is still a chance that they can try to cool the core and avoid a disaster.

Edit: Breaking News:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.nuclear/index.html?hpt=T1

"Japanese official says pumping system caused nuclear plant blast"

Edit II: Something else I want to add - regarding the evacuation and the iodine tablets - that could just be a precaution. Because people - the world! - would give them a VERY hard time IF something happens that could have been avoided by evacuting people and giving them iodine tablets.
 
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Update from a french news channel :

about the explosion : the official version is that the explosion was the building around the reactor, the reactor itself is not damaged/not severely damaged. The smoke on the video is actually steam, radioactive steam.

they had experts on the set, they said that there was no way of knowing if this is true, or if the explosion was the reactor.

So some radioactive meterial has actually leaked outside, but we don't know to which extent. The official version is that it is dissipating, decreasing. The wind is taking the radioactive material towards the sea, which is good news for Japan, but could mean that there might be a need of precaution in the pacific islands.

The problem in the power plant came from the cooling system that wass damaged by the tsunami , it affects 3 other reactors (bottomline : there are risks of other explosions)

they are have been/are evacuating an area of 60km around the powerplant (it was 20km).

the French embassy is also giving precaution advice for the people in the area (same as given here already + don't use your car, don't stay in your car, don't eat, if it rains leave all the wet clothes, shoes, umbrellas, outside your home)

There are French people missing in that area , so the Quay d'Orsay has set up an emergency info phone number .
 
Although Japan is called "the Far East," it's actually to the West of the coast of the U.S. (in terms of the path of the sun) Weather in the U.S. primarily moves from west to east, i.e. weather on the west coast affects weather where I live, on the east coast. Weather from Japan usually travels east, toward the United States.

It's possible that news is scanty to avoid panic, i.e. Tokyo. Because, given the ruined infrastructure, there is literally nowhere for the residents of Tokyo, to GO!

They are "saying" that while the concrete containment building was destroyed, the metal liner was undamaged and the leakage was minimal. It sure doesn't LOOK like that, from the video! There is no way that cloud of steam that we saw was not radioactive. How could it have not have been?

That twelve mile radius contains 88,000 people! The railways are non-functional, and the roads are damaged. Even if they weren't, the traffic jams must be incredible. There is no running water there, and no electricity. The conditions, and the FEAR, must be incredible. My heart goes out to all those people, there.

This is not only a Japanese problem. We are ALL connected. In terms of earthquakes, there is a similar subduction zone that runs under a large portion of the U.S. West coast (not the San Andreas fault. A separate fault.) I believe it begins north of San Francisco, and moves north up the coast, affecting Oregon, Washington, and western Canada). What ever is happening to Japan, could equally happen in the U.S. We should feel great compassion for the Japanese, and send them our best efforts in terms of prayers, and donations, as possible.

(My friend in Tokyo is still missing. . . . )
 
Milka said:
The explosion ... . There has been speculation about what has been damaged for hours now, the government probably knows, but so far nobody else seems to know. It's still unclear if the protective shell is still intact or not (if not, then there will be and probably already is a lot of radiation leaking). If it's still intact, there is still a chance that they can try to cool the core and avoid a disaster.
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yes that's exactly what I heard, and the people I just heard on TV said that they did not have enough info to be sure that the shell was still intact. what they see on that video doesn't help them.
 
According to a Belgian journalist, who is reporting live from Japan, Niigata was affected by a new earthquake 2 hours ago and there was also a new earthquake in the neighborhood of the exploded plant 3 hours ago.
 
I cannot begin to imagine what the Japanese people are going through. It puts things into perspective. Here's hoping the earthquakes stop soon.
 
bouee said:
yes that's exactly what I heard, and the people I just heard on TV said that they did not have enough info to be sure that the shell was still intact. what they see on that video doesn't help them.
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Yes, that's what they said here too, they can't really tell from the video or pictures. I don't know what to believe. Didn't know that the evacuation radius now is 60 km, that makes me think that they are not being entirely truthful. A few hours ago it was still 20.

Oh, and the weather and the west winds - if there will be a nuclear cloud, it's highly unlikely that it will make it to the west coast of the US, it'll rain out over the ocean. That's how they explained it on the news anyway.
 
Some members of the french government just held a press conference (2 persons from Environment dept, and 2 persons from the Nuclear safety agency) :

they say that have very few information, from the Japanese government, and from Tefco.

They do not have enough information to draw any conclusions, and they do not want to spread false rumors/panick by drawing inapropriate conclusions.

What they know :
the earthquake stopped 11 reactors, which is normal. But even if it is stopped, a reactor still has to be cooled.

the problem in Fukushima is the tsunami : they have no electricity, no water to cool down the reactor. Fukushima has 4 reactors.

There was some leak of radioactive steam, officially low radioactive steam (coming from the explosion that we all saw).

The wind going east, its not going or rarely going to the southern hemisphere.(they were talking about French pacific islands in the southern hemisphere)

They said that Japanese authorities are very strict about nuclear safety.

Comments from an expert on the set :

The reactor that "exploded" was the oldest one of the 4.

he's trying to get more info from other sources, and now thinks it is very likely that the shell is intact.
He thinks that the japanese authorities are doing a good job containing the problem, but that it was VERY close to a massive disaster, and this is an ongoing situation.

Comments from someone from Greenpeace and another anti nuclear organisation :

The cooling problem has to be dealt with within 10 hours , otherwise there is a risk that the core of the reactor melts down. And that would be catastrophic. Fukushita has 4 reactors. They don't seem to have anymore info either.
 
Milka said:
Yes, that's what they said here too, they can't really tell from the video or pictures. I don't know what to believe. Didn't know that the evacuation radius now is 60 km, that makes me think that they are not being entirely truthful. A few hours ago it was still 20.

Oh, and the weather and the west winds - if there will be a nuclear cloud, it's highly unlikely that it will make it to the west coast of the US, it'll rain out over the ocean. That's how they explained it on the news anyway.
Click to expand...

I think that is correct. The radioactive steam from the explosion didn't go high in the atmosphere (unlike Chernobyl).
 
Milka said:
Yes, that's what they said here too, they can't really tell from the video or pictures. I don't know what to believe. Didn't know that the evacuation radius now is 60 km, that makes me think that they are not being entirely truthful. A few hours ago it was still 20.
.
Click to expand...

I don't know what to believe either. The risk, even if it is not very likely, is 4 reactors melting down , aftershocks and other tsunamis. So I'm not surprised by the extended evacuation.

If the problem is bigger, there will be info from anti nuclear organisation such as Greenpeace, and so far they say they don't have any other info.
 
This is a horrific tragedy ..and really is kind of scary...my heart and prayers go out to all the people in Japan..and their loved ones. We have to keep on praying for their safety..thank you all for all oft the updated information
 
The Japan Times is Japan's leading newspaper.
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Fukushima reactor cover blows up

Four hurt; radiation spews amid frantic effort to prevent meltdown

Compiled from Kyodo, AP
SENDAI &#8212; An explosion at a nuclear power station blew up the building housing a reactor Saturday, injuring four workers, as officials scrambled to prevent a meltdown.
The blast followed the failure of the power plant's cooling system, which was compromised by Friday's 8.8-magnitude temblor.


Tokyo Electric Power Co., the utility that runs the Fukushima No. 1 plant, said the four workers injured in the blast &#8212; two of its own staff and two from another company, do not have life-threatening injuries and all remained conscious.


At the time of the 3:36 p.m. blast, the four were tending to problems caused by the massive quake, which devastated northeastern Japan and generated giant tsunami.


The explosion about 250 km northeast of Tokyo destroyed the walls and roof of the aging facility, which housed the reactor, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters at a hastily convened news conference Saturday evening.


TV footage showed that the power plant's roof and walls had disappeared. Tepco said the roof of the building collapsed after a large tremor.


Edano urged local residents to stay calm and said radiation levels were being carefully monitored. He also urged all residents living within 20 km of its Fukushima No. 1 and 10 km of No. 2. plants to evacuate.
"We are now trying to analyze what is behind the explosion," Edano said. "We ask everyone to take action to secure safety."


The nuclear power plant lost cooling ability after being jolted by Friday's devastating quake, and radioactive cesium and iodine were detected nearby Saturday.


Detection of the materials, which are created in the atomic fission process, prompted the nuclear safety agency to admit the reactor has been melting, a first for Japan.


According to the Fukushima Prefectural Government, hourly radiation emissions from the Fukushima plant reached 1,015 microsieverts on the premises &#8212; an amount equivalent to the dose an ordinary person would receive in one year.


The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said serious damage to the stricken reactor's containment facility was unlikely despite the explosion.


Edano also said radiation levels have been decreasing and the reactor containment vessel wasn't damaged in the blast.


Wind in the region is weak and was headed in a northeastly direction &#8212; toward the sea &#8212; for the time being, the Meteorological Agency said.


The company scrambled earlier Saturday to release pressure in the containers housing the reactors to prevent a nuclear meltdown from occurring, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.


Even before Tepco succeeded in reducing the pressure, which involved releasing steam that would likely include radioactive materials, radiation had risen to an unusually high level in and near the No. 1 nuclear plant.


Work to depressurize the containers, aimed at preventing the plants from sustaining damage and losing their critical containment function, was conducted under an unprecedented government order.
At the No. 1 plant, the amount of radiation reached around 1,000 times normal inside the control room of the reactor, and 70 times normal near its main gate.


It was the first time an external radioactive leak had been confirmed since the disaster.


Earlier reports said the U.S. Air Force was helping to deliver coolant to the damaged plant, which Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was believed to have confirmed Friday in the U.S.
 
bouee said:
If the problem is bigger, there will be info from anti nuclear organisation such as Greenpeace, and so far they say they don't have any other info.
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I don't think that Greenpeace knows more than the rest of us. At least it's a totally different situation than Tschernobyl on April 26, 1986 as far as information goes. Russia covered it up for 2 days until they detected radiation at a Swedish nuclear power plant, which made them check the plant, they thought they had a leak. But there was none. From the wind direction they suspected a nuclear power plant in Russia. Still took Russia another 12 hours to admit that there was an "accident", evening of April 28. The first time they admitted a "disaster" was on April 29.

Autumn, it's not really about the steam from the explosion, that's not a big problem. What they were talking about on the news was if the meltdown happens, then there will be a nuclear cloud that hopefully will be directed to the east by the west wind (that they are hoping for in case there will be a meltdown). Even that nuclear cloud wouldn't make it to the west coast of the US, it would just rain out over the ocean. So I don't think people have to worry about that.

Oh, and before I forget ... there has been speculation for hours now that the meltdown is already happening, which would mean that the protective shell has to remain intact or there will be a disaster like Tschernobyl. With all the after shocks and possible damage, that is very scary indeed.

More news: 3 people living close to Fukushima are contaminated. I guess if there are 3, then there are more ... I don't think they tell us everything they know.
 
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Milka said:
I don't think that Greenpeace knows more than the rest of us. At least it's a totally different situation than Tschernobyl on April 26, 1986 as far as information goes. Russia covered it up for 2 days until they detected radiation at a Swedish nuclear power plant, which made them check the plant, they thought they had a leak. But there was none. From the wind direction they suspected a nuclear power plant in Russia. Still took Russia another 12 hours to admit that there was an "accident", evening of April 28. The first time they admitted a "disaster" was on April 29.
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Right. There was a cover-up for several days, and I doubt that we EVER got complete information. Once Russia admitted the disaster, some people in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia were given potassium iodide tablets to help protect against the radiation (thyroid cancer). I read that they are also handing out this medication to those in Sendai who were exposed. Japan continues to down-play the severity, but the fact they are handing out the potassium iodide tells us differently. They would not DO that without there having been significant exposure of those within the toxic radius.

Milka said:
Autumn, it's not really about the steam from the explosion, that's not a big problem. What they were talking about on the news was if the meltdown happens, then there will be a nuclear cloud that hopefully will be directed to the east by the west wind (that they are hoping for in case there will be a meltdown). Even that nuclear cloud wouldn't make it to the west coast of the US, it would just rain out over the ocean. So I don't think people have to worry about that.
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The steam cloud was radioactive and has exposed over 80,000 people, so to THEM, I'd expect it IS a big problem? These people have been told to evacuate, to wash off rain water from their skins, etc. How they can evacuate with few functional roads and no functional rail-lines, and how they can wash off the radioactive rain given that there is no running water, is a huge problem.

There may be few or no effects in the U.S., but as human-beings, we are all connected. If this is not a wake-up call about the dangers of nuclear power, I certainly don't know what WOULD be. The U.S. has many power-plants of the same design as the Daichi plant. Some of those are in earthquake zones, and especially in the zone of the New Madrid fault, on the Missouri border. We need to LEARN from this, and I hope we will, and take more precautions in ALL countries that have nuclear power.

Currently, with the prevailing wind, looks like the radioactive steam-cloud will be carried out to sea. The explosion at Chernobyl was MUCH higher into the atmosphere and traveled much farther than seems to be the potential with this radioactivity. But, for those exposed . . for some. . . the effects may not be felt for years, in increased rates of cancer, leukemia, and so on. The children are especially at risk, and my heart goes out to them and their parents, and to all the Japanese people, SO much.
 
A green party poltician just said that 2 reactors (not 4) had a cooling problem.

She was asked how she could get information about what was going on , she said that "green" activists were "watching closely" (I don't know how they would do that)

She said that the japanese government had been warned against building nuclear plants in a sismic region.

I also wonder about that, as if it was not enough, an earthquake , a tsunami, and now a nuclear problem caused by a tsunami :no:
 
Autumn II said:
The steam cloud was radioactive and has exposed over 80,000 people, so to THEM, I'd expect it IS a big problem?
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Yes, but I meant that in the context of a nuclear cloud coming from a meltdown. For the area around the plant, it of course is a big problem. As far as I remember it's not the first steam cloud today either. I think they had to release some because the pressure was too high. So that's why they evacuate like crazy and the evacuation radius gets bigger and bigger. And that's also why "3 people" are already contaminated ...
 
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