Madonna & Michael ; You Can Be Hard on Madonna All You Want But Shes Change...

I feel like I have to speak up about Madonna and Michael. You can be hard on Madonna all you want, because after all she WAS controversial, perhaps jealous of his stardom, full of herself, but young, etc. At that particular time. However, in the years since becoming a mother, Madonna has changed, grown, matured in that sense. Religion wise, politically and her whole lifestyle has become different- its that shes no longer a controversial person anymore. I think that becoming a mother, she has really grown up and become wiser and more conservative. Esp since Madonna was the first to have children between the two. (I think)

I do not know if Michael would forgive her today & while I do not know when the last time Madonna actually spoke to Michael, Madonnas not out to have fun anymore; Shes a mother & even an activist.
And when Michael died, Madonna did let us know about how she was devastated.

so I dunno I just felt like as a Madonna fan, I'm more of a 80s-pre child Madonna fan, its not fair to be rude to her now cause she has changed. As far as I know. If this makes any sense, please respond. Perhaps today she wishes that she acted differently then when with Michael.

And please I am not defending Madonna but I am saying that present time, shes a different person who I believe anyway, has learned from her behavior and mistakes.


Am I wrong??? Discuss

BillieJean84 said:

I feel like I have to speak up about Madonna and Michael. You can be hard on Madonna all you want, because after all she WAS controversial, perhaps jealous of his stardom, full of herself, but young, etc. At that particular time. However, in the years since becoming a mother, Madonna has changed, grown, matured in that sense. Religion wise, politically and her whole lifestyle has become different- its that shes no longer a controversial person anymore. I think that becoming a mother, she has really grown up and become wiser and more conservative. Esp since Madonna was the first to have children between the two. (I think)

I do not know if Michael would forgive her today & while I do not know when the last time Madonna actually spoke to Michael, Madonnas not out to have fun anymore; Shes a mother & even an activist.
And when Michael died, Madonna did let us know about how she was devastated.

so I dunno I just felt like as a Madonna fan, I'm more of a 80s-pre child Madonna fan, its not fair to be rude to her now cause she has changed. As far as I know. If this makes any sense, please respond. Perhaps today she wishes that she acted differently then when with Michael.

Discuss. Am I wrong??

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I've never had anything against Madonna. I've always been a fan. I can't say I approve of everything she has done in her career but I love most of her music and she is an icon. I do remember reading early in her career that she could be very mean but I still don't hold that against her. It's the music that really matters to me above all else. Even after listening to/reading Michael's opinion of her from those Shmuley tapes and book I don't find much fault with her. If anything much of it was very funny to me. I mean, these entertainment icons, two of the most famous, were polar opposites in their personalities. That part where Michael says she showed him some "risque" magazines and he says "now why would I want to see that?" That was hilarious to me.

Madonna's daughter (Lola) has the same age as Prince, it is October, so it is is a few months younger than Prince.

Yes, Madonna has changed and matured a lot after the birth of Lola and also because of the Kabbalah. What I think is that there never was envy and rivalry on the part of Madonna. The great thing is that in the past it was very, very, very polemic h34r: (and still is, but not as in the past). I remember that early in his career, in interviews for magazines, Madonna always spoke of the admiration she had for Michael (and Jackson 5). Well, she is from Detroit, so therefore she was a fan of all the great artists of Montown and that's what she heard in his youth. :yes:

This question of rivalry between them was the press that created. :bugeyed The two are completely different and artistically you can not compare, but are the largest. :yes: :wild: unk:

I believe that in the short period they were friends, but for some reason moved away. :scratch: Madonna is very, very, very different (ideas, thoughts and personality) from Michael, maybe this big difference made him distance themselves from one another.

In my opinion, Madonna always respected and admired Michael. :yes: And I confess that I always had a great desire to see a duet of the two. I'm sure it would be incredible and explosive. :wild: unk:

well of course they were friends & absolutley no rivalry but there was a time when they went out together and she said some stuff to him ; I'm sure you have all heard it by now. They lost touch with each other later in the years. Michael had called her a 'witch' in those tapes he made. Thats all I'm talking about. But I know they were friends. Some ppl don't like her now because of how she treated Michael then.

But I'm being forgiving. Is all I'm saying.

BillieJean84 said:

well of course they were friends & absolutley no rivalry but there was a time when they went out together and she said some stuff to him ; I'm sure you have all heard it by now. They lost touch with each other later in the years. Michael had called her a 'witch' in those tapes he made. Thats all I'm talking about. But I know they were friends. Some ppl don't like her now because of how she treated Michael then.

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Yes, maybe she said these things to relax Michael and let him less shy? :scratch:

Well, you know, Madonna has always behaved this way a little outrageous with all people. h34r: :swoon:

The friendship of Michael and Madonna looked like this: in love and war. lol! :wild:



Look:










The paparazzi were crazy that day: Madonna and Michael together on the Oscar.

They were beautiful and wonderful.


:wild: :wild: :wild:

I actually like MAdonna. And I thought her speech at the MTV awards were very touching. I was surprised to see her come out and I was also glad she did. I also loved how when that book came out where Mj according to Schmuley had said some things about Madonna soon after the awards, ahe said that nothing was going to change her opinion of him and she stood by what she said. i thought that was very classy. i like her very much. And I like when people can be the bigger person. She has been in the indusrty for a long time and was not going to let the media play her here. bravo!

They were fabolous at that award show i never had a problem with her Michael spoke of his experience with her wasn't a big deal to me because every thing he said was so 10 plus years ago. People do change and i seen the growth in her.

You just keep pushing my love over the boaderline Madonna the real lady gaga always got played in my house i am a straight up 80's baby hun :dance:

they shut the media down that year flawless my moomoo swagg was so serious I miss u mikey

I love Madonna. She lost me a little during her really vulgar years (early to mid 90s) but I have been a fan of hers since I was a little girl. I agree, she has matured with age and I'm sure, like most people, she may have regrets about her past, or wishes that she could change a few things.

Talented musician. However...Many, Many things she's done have been VERY VERY tasteless...including jumping on the post MJ death adoration bandwagon.

MJJ7777 said:

Talented musician. However...Many, Many things she's done have been VERY VERY tasteless...including jumping on the post MJ death adoration bandwagon.

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I do not understand. :scratch:

I think she also defended Mike doing that Martin Bashir debacle. I wish I can find the you tube video, It's the one on dateline where Matt Lauer was being a dick.

Edit here it is:






And I really don't care to use the Rabbi tapes either because they are old from 2001. Heck I think she changed a long time after that. And we don't even know how he felt about her later in 2009.

They were both famous, she was an icon in the 80's / 90's like Michael that's why they went out on the oscar night + a few other datings.
Madonna was not that big friend to Michael as she would have wanted.
They were far too different, Madonna was and still is an extrovert person and Michael exactly the opposite.
Madonna would have done (and had done) all for fame and he had not needed such an attitude.


I liked her in her early years very much.
After some scandals (se*) and her vulgar behaviour on stage, I have lost 75% of my interest in her.
On the MTV awards I was deeply moved by her speech.
I thought she would have changed, would be wiser in her 5th decade.
But I was wrong. I only mention her boy friend :doh:

I agree with you and I don't have anything against Madonna. I think when it came between Michael and Madonna there was big personality clash.

I have to agree with you as well. I love Madonna's music, I'm not a fan of all her performances (because some were/are very vulgar) but I still like her.
I really do believe that she cared for Michael, her speech at the VMAs was sincere. And yes, she also defended him during the trial in 2003.
I believe that TODAY Michael & Madonna could have been more friends than they were in the early 90's.

I like Madonna. I've always liked her music, I have all her albums, her music has a different sound on every album and that's what I like the most about her. I love it when an artist is able to change and find a new sound and still be great. Madonna is one of the few who can do that, imo.

As for her behavior... Well, it was never too shocking for me, personally. But I can see why some may be offended by some things she did.

Obviously, Michael and Madonna were from different worlds. And I think even if she wanted to build a friendship (or more than a friendship) with Michael, she just scared him away. She was too extreme for him. But we all must admit that they were a mindblowing couple at the Oscars that night! lol

I think she was sincere at the MTV awards last year. And she said the things that no other celebrity had the guts to say. That they all abandoned him. She will always have my respect for that.

I'm happy to see that some people are standing up for Madonna... it just seemed to me that all MJ fans were bashing her... when to be honest, she's never done wrong to Michael! She's always respected him by keeping his privacy and their story private, defended him when everyone was bashing him (martin bashir documentary)... and after his passing remained one of the only people to actually use the words that we as fans always said about Michael... her tribute speech to this day was my favorite, cause she said everything we the fans wanted to say... but her tribute was the only one bashed by MJ fans... and I was very disapointed! Madonna cared very much for Michael and I don't believe was ever jealous of him... to be honest, I think she was in love with him, and when she realised that she wasen't going to have him, it pissed her off... but once she became a mother and changed her life style, she saw things in a different way and respected Michael's decision! Madonna loves and respects Michael... period! And as for Michael's words in the Shumley book... I don't know why, but I have a feeling that Rabbi messed with Michael's head and gave false info on Madonna... let's not forget that Rabbi Shumley and Madonna have been at war for years, so it's not that shocking if the Rabbi went to Michael and said stuff like "Madonna said this about you and that, etc..." ....coincidence how Michael's statement came from HIS sessions!

Michael and Madonna were never friends. They only went on that one date and spent some time together because they were working on music. Artists who work together does not automatically make them friends. A friend is someone like Chris Tucker who defended Michael in trial and spent time with him not as an artist as a PERSON, and he was a good friend.

mjscarousal said:

Michael and Madonna were never friends. They only went on that one date and spent some time together because they were working on music. Artists who work together does not automatically make them friends. A friend is someone like Chris Tucker who defended Michael in trial and spent time with him not as an artist as a PERSON, and he was a good friend.

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O.M.G.

:agree:

This is REAL talk.

Madonna will always be a polemic subject. h34r:

Fact. :yes:

I felt that it was nice for Madonna to speak about MJ at the VMA's but the speech was moreso about her, than about him..which is what I did not like..but I still respect her for showing up and speaking about him..

However, I don't think they were ever friends..she was just his peer in the industry..

yes she has changed and for the better.

The woman had the cheek to say every single person turned there back on Michael. The fans DIDNT Madonna! Just because you were jealous about not having the fans like he had. Michael said what she was like. What more is needed.

Yeezy2010 said:

The woman had the cheek to say every single person turned there back on Michael. The fans DIDNT Madonna! Just because you were jealous about not having the fans like he had. Michael said what she was like. What more is needed.

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Oh get off it already, Madonna is/was not jealous of MJ period. She has admitted over and over that she idolizes MJ and stuck up for him on several occasions when it wasn’t very popular to do so. Whether you like it or not Madonna is a world wide legend who has a huge fan base around the globe, I just googled her last tour and Madonna just performing to over 3.5 million fans in 32 countries, grossing a total of US$408 million, making it the second highest grossing tour of all time and the highest grossing tour by a solo artist, and with MJ’s passing Madonna is pretty much the only true worldwide superstar left, why would she be jealous cut the fucking crap. And BTW in her MTV speech Madonna said "I had abandoned him, we had abandoned him, most of us had abandoned him” she didn’t say every single person turned their back on him. Madonna was including herself and that's pretty big of her to publicly admit. One would assume since you are an MJ fan you know first hand how unfair and bias the media was towards MJ causing lots of lost and uneducated people in the world to feel the same about him, I would think you would try to not judge others or at best look into things before you speak and get your shit straight before you talk shit, but oh well. I also think MJ could have been influenced and misinformed about Madonna by that rabbi who Madonna wanted nothing to do with

jonus30 said:

Oh get off it already, Madonna is/was not jealous of MJ period. She has admitted over and over that she idolizes MJ and stuck up for him on several occasions when it wasn’t very popular to do so. Whether you like it or not Madonna is a world wide legend who has a huge fan base around the globe, I just googled her last tour and Madonna just performing to over 3.5 million fans in 32 countries, grossing a total of US$408 million, making it the second highest grossing tour of all time and the highest grossing tour by a solo artist, and with MJ’s passing Madonna is pretty much the only true worldwide superstar left, why would she be jealous cut the fucking crap. And BTW in her MTV speech Madonna said "I had abandoned him, we had abandoned him, most of us had abandoned him” she didn’t say every single person turned their back on him. Madonna was including herself and that's pretty big of her to publicly admit. One would assume since you are an MJ fan you know first hand how unfair and bias the media was towards MJ causing lots of lost and uneducated people in the world to feel the same about him, I would think you would try to not judge others or at best look into things before you speak and get your shit straight before you talk shit, but oh well. I also think MJ could have been influenced and misinformed about Madonna by that rabbi who Madonna wanted nothing to do with

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As far as I remember Michael was the one doing all the talking when it came to recollecting his not so pleasant experience with Madonna, not the Rabbi. Michael is not an idiot that would say what he said about her without really knowing.
He had strong opinions about her but also gave her a chance by saying, maybe now that she's had children, she is a changed person from the person he knew years ago.
It is what it is.

Asedora said:

MJ called Madonna jealous and this comes from MJ tapes. You have to accept it as a fact. Madonna is a material girl and she always been about money and fame. MJ and Madonna are two different ppl from different planets with different values. I would say Madonna values are veery low based on shock and sexual conroversy and there is nothing to compare with Michael at this point.
I do not understand why MJ fans still discuss Madonna on this forum over and over, ignoring Michael's own words about her as a person.
If she changed, good for her. But it does not change one bit what was said by Michael about Madonna.

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I know what Michael said but I just don’t see why she would be jealous being she is a superstar in her own right that's all. besides fame for Male artist's is a very different type of fame than for a Female artist. I would be more prone to believe that one or some of the Jackson brothers would be jealous of MJ before I would think that of Madonna, but seriously I could care less, I will continue to enjoy them both MJ and Madonna are my idols always have and always will be no matter what.

I liked Madonna in the 80-es....but then she really became too vulgar, even for me and I am not easily shocked. I just didin"t like it.
That speech she gave...I didn"t care about it, because it was too little and too late.
No matter how or did she change,it"s not of my bussines. I just know that almost nobody from that crowd has helped Michael and stood by him and they yet have a nerv to say that THEY KNEW HE WAS INNOCENT. That is the problem and I don"t live like that. If I know that my friend was accused for something he did not do I will stand by him no matter what.
In Michael"s glory days all of them were waiting in line like little children just to be photographed with him. And they all saw injustice and malice and evil and did not do a damn thing.It"s about being human and being a friend.
Showing their as*** all dressed up in the tributes and talking how great Michael was means nothing to me. Not just Madonna....all of them.
Sorry...this is really making me angry.

I liked Madonna best in 86-96 after that, since ROL album, she stopped being as sexual and really changed her image. To me that was very disappointing. There was a topic, recently of whether we still have superstars out there or not. To me she was a superstar until ROL album. Because in 97 it all changed not just for her, but for everybody. I remember how disappointed I was with her, with Mariah, and with Janet. It was an era, where this tree, all released new material, and Michael was not around. Otherwise, there were new artists like Britney, Jlo, and nsinc. It was a totaly new era, were everybody went into this hiphop, where the music srated to go where it is today.
With Madonna I think, The sexuality/vulgarity, was what made her so famous, what made her the superstar she was. Once she dropped that, she turned boring.
I mean she is beautiful, has a great body, and a great voice, and total respect to her for her longetivity in the business. But she doesn't make videos that way she used to anymore, her videos, haven't been interesting since 97.

jonus30 said:

Oh get off it already, Madonna is/was not jealous of MJ period. She has admitted over and over that she idolizes MJ and stuck up for him on several occasions when it wasn’t very popular to do so. Whether you like it or not Madonna is a world wide legend who has a huge fan base around the globe, I just googled her last tour and Madonna just performing to over 3.5 million fans in 32 countries, grossing a total of US$408 million, making it the second highest grossing tour of all time and the highest grossing tour by a solo artist, and with MJ’s passing Madonna is pretty much the only true worldwide superstar left, why would she be jealous cut the fucking crap. And BTW in her MTV speech Madonna said "I had abandoned him, we had abandoned him, most of us had abandoned him” she didn’t say every single person turned their back on him. Madonna was including herself and that's pretty big of her to publicly admit. One would assume since you are an MJ fan you know first hand how unfair and bias the media was towards MJ causing lots of lost and uneducated people in the world to feel the same about him, I would think you would try to not judge others or at best look into things before you speak and get your shit straight before you talk shit, but oh well. I also think MJ could have been influenced and misinformed about Madonna by that rabbi who Madonna wanted nothing to do with

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Haha shut up. Tryna say Im talkin BS. Mike said it and Im going off of that. I believe him to be honest. You know, because Im a Michael Jackson fan. Coming here swearing like that. Grow up. I take it you think Michael was talkin **** too? Go listen to them 2001 tapes. Who wouldnt be jealous of Michael with the fans hes got. I dont care what others think but I think its well known that Michael has the most dedicated and loyal fans in the world. Proven time and time again.
Madonna was jealous anyways.

Yeezy2010 said:

Haha shut up. Tryna say Im talkin BS. Mike said it and Im going off of that. I believe him to be honest. You know, because Im a Michael Jackson fan. Coming here swearing like that. Grow up. I take it you think Michael was talkin **** too? Go listen to them 2001 tapes. Who wouldnt be jealous of Michael with the fans hes got. I dont care what others think but I think its well known that Michael has the most dedicated and loyal fans in the world. Proven time and time again.
Madonna was jealous anyways.

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Your right I should have not risen to the bait and stooped to your level, but it’s just that your initial comments were so silly and full of inaccuracies I felt the need to address and correct you on a level that you could understand and coming from someone who has a Kayne picture in their postings I would think you can handle profanity, please sister. Off topic didn’t Kayne say on several occasions he is convinced he is the new MJ and should be crowned the new King of Pop because he believes he’s so talented he can fill the MJ void? Now that’s a clear display of delusion, jealousy and childish behavior. If you think I am slag-gin MJ once again you have proven that you don’t pay very good attention to details or reason, either way like I said I am just trying to play the devils advocate and present another side to the MJ/Madonna issue. MJ/Madonna you and I and everyone else in the world are not perfect and we all make mistakes from time to time. I am just trying to say there are ALWAYS two or more sides to every story and we should try to be smart and look at the bigger picture or at best be smart enough to look into things (if we care) before we make any remarks. Madonna is an Icon herself who also has a HUGE an extremely loyal fan base for 27+ years so I don’t see her being jealous of anyone. We will agree to disagree about this issue and that’s ok with me, we are all entitled to our opinion. Unfortunately you sound like someone who is completely bias and one sided (probably) in every area of your life, and if you are this way you are really doing yourself a big disservice by having this thinking process, there is no reasoning or compromise with people like you. And again MJ was so misunderstood by lots and lots of uneducated people in the world who never bothered to really pay attention and look into MJ’s life or the underlining factors to all his problems, If they had MJ would have never been wrongfully crucified by some people in the world. But seriously I have bigger fish to fry than this. I am going to listen to some MJ music and enjoy the rest of my day!!