MJ's list of Shady/Unshady Characters?

*THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED N & H, BUT A MOD FELT IT'D BE MORE SUITABLE IN THE CONSPIRACY SECTION - HOPE IT'S OKAY IF I POST IT*

After watching all those tributes before and after the 25th, I really don't know what to consider credible anymore. So many people are contradicting each other and considering themselves right. On one side you've got people saying Michael was fine, happy, extremely excited to do the shows, etc. - basically everything positive. Then you've got the other side saying that he was in terrible health, drugged out, and less than ecstatic to do the shows. I mean it seems like both the sides have people that loved Michael very much, but who is believable? Who do you guys deem "credible"? I'll list a few people that come to mind that were recently in the specials, but my list is going to be weak since I'm in a hurry.


-Kenny Ortega, Travis Payne, TII Dancers/Crew
-Randy Phillips
-Karen Faye (Michael Bush & Dennis Tompkins?)
-Tohme Tohme
-Ian Halperin
-Brian Oxman

What do you think of them? Who else?

Tommy Mottola
$ony
Al Malnik
Bret RATner
Frank Dileo
Jermaine, Randy, LaToya and Joseph Jackson
AEG (as a whole)
Uri Gellar
Rabbi Schmuley Botech
David Gest
Diane Diamond
Roger Friedman
Arnie Klien
Jason Pfieffer



I dont think of Michael Bush as a shady character. At least Ive never had any reason to think so.

^^ Bret Ratner?? Why do you think so?

^^Brett RATner?? 1 example is that he sold MJ out and took him to Al Malniks beach house where Tommy Mottola was waiting on the phone for him. MJ didnt want anything to do with Mottola or Malnik.

Didnt you notice MJ stopped associating with RATner since 2003?

Michael, Novel, Mottola, Malnik and Bandier






June 30, 2010 – Michael, Novel, Mottola, Malnik and Bandier - What Really Happened?

People have mentioned the name of Gordon Novel before, but until today never really did any digging in his direction. Novel visited Michael Jackson at his “Neverland” Ranch back in 2005, during Michael’s trial. Reference

That article tells a story from Novel’s point of view, of Michael seeking someone who could do some covert investigation into the people that were trying to sabotage his career and force him into bankruptcy in order to gain control of his 50% share of the Sony/ATV catalog. As Novel tells it, he didn’t want to have “Tommy on his bad side.” He said his “sources in New York said Tommy was a dangerous guy.” Novel turned Michael down and didn’t take the case. Amusing that he mentioned that Michael stiffed him (of the plane ticket he was told would be waiting for him at the airport) and he had to call the family to get his plane ticket back home paid for. If this is true, I take it Michael was more than a little ticked at being charged $25,000 for a consultation fee that went nowhere.

So who is Gordon Novel? His Biography is not only diverse, it is creepy. Novel has been involved in everything from JFK’s assignation investigation to UFO’s. He is one strange character, but Michael should probably count himself lucky that Novel didn’t get involved. "In his youth, Gordon Novel belonged to a neo-Nazi group and was arrested and charged with bombing a Metairie, Louisiana, theater that admitted blacks.” Wrote A.J. Weber and quoted on “JFK-online.com .

In the “Daily Pulp” blog above, Novel is interviewed and gives account of his meeting with Michael Jackson. He paints Michael as “afraid of being killed in prison” (this meeting was during his trial), and being “very, very afraid of going to prison”. We all know that.

Novel added in answer to questions, that he believed Michael was probably “set up” but wouldn’t commit to any assumption that it was Mottola.

Novel told the interviewer that Michael believed Mottola was mob-connected and that Malnik was representing the Mob. Novel also said that he couldn’t vouch for any of what Michael believed and that he had nothing against Mottola.

Michael had told Novel that Malnik had betrayed him. I was surprised by the revelations by Novel that Michael had a “special loathing” for Malnik because the man had betrayed him. Novel told Michael that Malnik had said that Michael had made him the executor of his will. Novel said that he believed that Michael and Malnik were no longer friends just by how “pissed off” Michael was about what Malnik was telling every one. Novel also mentioned that Michael’s mental state “was excellent” and that he was lucid and did not appear to be on any drugs. This is during Michael’s trial.

So WHO keeps peddling the drug stories? (Wisner, Konitzer, Klein, just about every tabloid, Dimond, various family members, even though they won’t use “drug” and “addicted” in the same sentence nor mention “drug” and “interventions” in the same sentence or in context of the same decade).

During 1993, since many of us are unsure if there was a strong enough reason to believe that Sony, Mottola or anyone within Sony (Branca?) would have been after the ATV catalog (this is before Sony “partnered” with Michael in the music publishing business), I thought the chart above would be interesting. You can click on it to make it bigger, then click “back” to get back to the blog. This was courtesy of Brian Everett. He said, “The chart above, is the 1993 case ....[THIS WAS 17 YEARS IN THE PAST, NEW EXECUTIVES & OWNERS...NOW],...it is very hard to lay this out, using just words, so we think this will make it clear..I only had a small part in the case, as you can see.....once Evan Chandler started his war, the whole thing went from control, to destroy.”

Sony knew Michael had the catalog when they purchased Epic Records and thereby effectively buying his contract. When Michael’s contract was renegotiated, he was offered the highest royalties in the business by Mottola, which sent Yetnikoff into a panic, even though Yetnikoff liked Michael.

I found this paragraph on the MJFiles web site:

“In June 1993, Tommy famously married the then-fledgling teenage singer Mariah Carey. The same year, he started having problems managing Michael Jackson, whose US sales were steadily dropping, partly because of the well publicized molestation allegations from Jordan Chandler. “I knew it was always your problem,” a Mottola aide claims he heard Tommy tell Michael when the latter was requesting a $30 million check and a Sony statement of support. “But you better @#%$ stop. You hear that Michael? You better @#%$ stop.” Mottola denies ever having said anything of the sort.”

What else happened in 1993? That timeline is also interesting.

In February of 1993, Michael Jackson gave a 90-minute interview to Oprah Winfrey and refuted all the tabloid rumors and discussed many personal subjects such as the pain of his father’s abuse and the history of his skin disorder, Vitiligo.

Michael became friends with Jordan Chandler, a boy who Michael was introduced to by Jordan’s step father who ran the “Wrent-a-Wreck” that Michael and his bodyguard went to when Michael’s vehicle broke down. Later that year, Evan Chanlder, Jordan’s real father would attempt extortion, then file charges when Michael didn’t cave. Jordan’s mother sided with Michael until Evan managed to get the court to agree that he should be awarded with custody of Jordan. Then she agreed to take part when threatened by Evan of losing out on “the deal”.

November 24 of that year, Michael announced that EMI Music Publishing would begin managing his ATV music catalogue, which included the Beatles songs. Michael would receive an annual amount of $70 million in advance against revenue that EMI expected to generate managing the catalogue’s publishing rights during the five year contract.

On December 8, Michael’s sister LaToya went on air in Israel and betrayed her own brother by stating she could not stand by and let Michael hurt children. She later recanted, saying her abusive and jealous husband forced her to say those things about Michael. My first thought was, who paid LaToya or her husband?

December 14, Jordan described Michael’s private parts to the DA and detectives. As a result, a search warrant issued by Tom Sneddon subjected Michael to a humiliating examination and photographs of his private parts in his home by a court paid doctor with a detective and Michael’s lawyer present.

On January 24th Michael and his insurance companies settled with the Chandler family for approximately $20 million; the amount Evan had originally tried to extort from Michael to fund a screen play he wrote.
Here is a telling excerpt from an article published in 1993 by Andrea Adelson:

THE MEDIA BUSINESS; EMI to Pay Michael Jackson $70 Million to Manage Music | Nov 25, 1993

"The pop singer Michael Jackson said through his lawyer yesterday that EMI Music Publishing would begin managing his 6,000-title music catalogue, which includes most early Beatles hits, in a deal being described as the most lucrative in music publishing.

Mr. Jackson will receive $70 million in advance against revenue that EMI expected to generate managing the publishing rights to ATV Music. The catalog, acquired by Mr. Jackson in 1985 for $47.5 million, includes the classic Lennon-McCartney Beatles compositions, as well as songs from Little Richard, Elvis Presley and the Pointer Sisters.

Total revenue over the deal’s five-year term is estimated to be $150 million, said Martin N. Bandier, president of EMI Music Publishing, which controls 900,000 songs in its own catalogs."


Martin Bandier is now the CEO of Sony/ATV Music Publishing. This makes it much more believable that this conspiracy to destroy Michael Jackson could have begun as far back as 1993 with the Chandler case!

Did Bandier and Mottola tag-team Michael? Are they buddies? According to this real estate article, they now live in the same neighborhood.

Sony/Jackson Estate announcement tries to convince the public that Michael Jackson’s “continuing relationship” with Sony would negate the bad press Sony received after Michael’s allegations of racism and artist sabotage in 2002. We are to believe that there was a “continuing relationship” when indeed their was not. Michael broke ties with Sony and during contract manipulation Michael found out he still owed them two albums. Michael was done. Michael’s own “Mijac” catalog rights were due to convert to him the month after he died. The Sony/ATV partnership, along with Mijac Music, which controls rights to Mr. Jackson’s own song writing, made Michael one of the largest independent music publishers in the world.

Interestingly, in 1985, Bandier and Michael had gone head to head in bidding for the ATV catalog originally, but Michael had cash and agreed to perform a benefit concert in Perth. Bandier lost out. Bandier managed the ATV catalog under EMI. Now he “manages” it under Sony/ATV Publishing. Did Bandier and Mottola conspire?

Michael sold 50% of his ATV catalog to Sony in 1995. Two years after the allegations and the $20+million settlement. In this article on the “MJ Files” toward the bottom of the article it says, “Just a year later, Michael Jackson would be forced to sell Sony a 50 percent stake in his ATV catalog to the tune of more than $100 million, the official line being “in order to help shore up his wobbling accounts”.

Back to Malnik and Mottola’s relationship, I wanted to know more about that. I found no business dealings between Malnik or Mottola. Only references to Malnik receiving a phone call from Mottola when Michael was visiting there and the fact that they both have connections to the mob.

After much digging, I did find that the rumor (because no other proof is available or cannot be found) concerning Martin Bashir’s brother working for Mottola supposedly came from the Schmuley tapes. I was of the impression that the Schmuley tapes were made before the Bashir documentary came out and that the book Schmuley and Michael had planned to published based on those tapes, was halted because of the Bashir documentary and subsequent child molestation charges. I did not see it mentioned in the book version I have.

This article from a November 1996 Vanity Fair, posted on a forum, gives some really good insight to Tommy Mottola and previous dealings with artists.

Seems Michael is not the only one in which Mottola tried to play the “bankruptcy game”. According to the article, Tommy’s protégé’s Hall and Oats also were put in a position of borrowing money and filing suits to find out what happened to all the money, only to come to a confidential, “amicable settlement”. Billy Joel was also on the outs with Mottola at one time, settled again, out of court. It's a very interesting article. You should read it. It makes me want to not buy another CD, DVD or anything from the entertainment industry ever again.

Currently I see a bigger conspiracy between Mottola and Bandier than I do Malnik. Bandier had been there even before Tommy was in the picture. Bandier was the original bidder against Michael Jackson for the ATV catalog and he has been within spitting distance of it since 1985.

Most notable in all this mess was Michael’s reserve of strength. It still boggles the mind, the covetousness, the sense of entitlement and the complete disregard for the life of a person who put them on the map and made their companies what they are today, as the music industry has for it's artists.

As far as Tommy Mottola is concerned, my opinion is, that someone has to be incredibly insecure to have a personal body guard walking his wife back and forth to a bathroom door within their house for fear a dust bunny would make a pass at her.

I believe that Michael’s death has little to do with AEG and MUCH to do with Tommy Mottola and Sony’s Martin Bandier.

Al Malnik dropped his claim of being Blanket’s biological father and of Michael Jackson’s estate. He never offered an explanation as to why Michael’s friendship with him cooled around the time of the 2003 molestation allegations and he still praised Michael and his fathering skills. But from the looks of Michael’s face in photos taken during the latter part of Michael’s time with him in Florida, he looked completely and totally miserable. Perhaps those photos marked the time that Michael learned that Malnik was in cahoots with Mottola?

Dangerous Incorporated said:

^^Brett RATner?? 1 example is that he sold MJ out and took him to Al Malniks beach house where Tommy Mottola was waiting on the phone for him. MJ didnt want anything to do with Mottola or Malnik.

Didnt you notice MJ stopped associating with RATner since 2003?

Click to expand...

Oh, I see. No, I had no idea? And where is mottolla's beachhouse? Do you happen to know if it's in miami?

It was Malnik's beach house. Mottola was on the speaker phone, Michael didnt want to talk to him but was forced to basically.

ForeverKOP said:

*THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED N & H, BUT A MOD FELT IT'D BE MORE SUITABLE IN THE CONSPIRACY SECTION - HOPE IT'S OKAY IF I POST IT*

After watching all those tributes before and after the 25th, I really don't know what to consider credible anymore. So many people are contradicting each other and considering themselves right. On one side you've got people saying Michael was fine, happy, extremely excited to do the shows, etc. - basically everything positive. Then you've got the other side saying that he was in terrible health, drugged out, and less than ecstatic to do the shows. I mean it seems like both the sides have people that loved Michael very much, but who is believable? Who do you guys deem "credible"? I'll list a few people that come to mind that were recently in the specials, but my list is going to be weak since I'm in a hurry.


-Kenny Ortega, Travis Payne, TII Dancers/Crew
-Randy Phillips
-Karen Faye (Michael Bush & Dennis Tompkins?)
-Tohme Tohme
-Ian Halperin
-Brian Oxman

What do you think of them? Who else?

Click to expand...

I feel that Ortega & Payne haven't been honest. I would like to see them under oath & some of the others too.

Faye, Bush & Tompkins in the recent interview seemed very honest to me.







Halperin's a creep but I want to know his sources - "6 months to live" - kind of unforgettable.

Randy Phillips is totally a liar & is heavy into covering up IMO.

Stan Goldman says Oxman is good at preparing, but has questionable judgment. I like Goldman - he comments on TV if you haven't seen him & I think he is fair & has probably seen him in court. I am not sure to what Goldman is referring to, although this was during trial, but I remember Oxman supposedly got into a physical fight with Jack Gordon during Latoyas divorce. I read that years ago on a CTV board, not sure if its true - I think they had a link though, but I can't verify.

Wasn't Tucker down there with Michael in Miami as well? What did he know of Mottola's call to speak to Michael at Malnik's place? Chris and Brett seemed friendly. Wonder about it now though. Michael's interview with Ratner seemed genuine and he looks relaxed when speaking...it looks to have taken place in 03 when in Miami. Not sure what to make of it now. If Michael was cornered while down there to speak to Mottola, that's really f*cked up imo. Looking at the photos he doesn't look amused.

Halaperin DEFINATELY needs to be investigated! and that crap that michael will die in six months because of a drug overdose??

Does anyone have that article saved??? I really hope so. It may be useful during trial.

I can understand ortega since he was probably under pressure by aeg, but why do you think Travis hasn't been honest?

kasume said:

^^ Bret Ratner?? Why do you think so?

Click to expand...

Carol Davis- from Justicesystem.net listed Brett Ratner, Al Malnik, Trudy Green, Kaufman, Branca, Koppelman, Mottola on April 4, 2005.

Novel said he visited MJ at Neverland in March, 2005.

Malnik, Koppelman & Branca were working on a refinancing deal for MJ:



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191760,00.html
The Lenoir-Correas didn't have to do much except encourage Jackson to accept a deal similar to the one he was offered a year ago. That group included John Branca, the lawyer who structured the Beatles deal in the first place in 1985; Charles Koppelman and Al Malnik, who saved Jackson from the chopping block several times in 2003-2004; and the bankers at Bank of America, who tried to help him even as Jackson lied to them and cut deals behind their backs.
In this episode, I am told that Branca, who had a 5 percent stake in Jackson's music publishing holdings, extended the deal negotiations for two weeks until he was satisfied that he was protected. He got that protection in the form of a $15 million mortgage on Neverland, Jackson's nearly completely closed ranch.
But late yesterday, as the deal concluded, Branca's 20-year association with Jackson ended as he was bought out entirely. No numbers are available, but it's likely he walked away with anywhere between $10 and $20 million.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155529,00.html

This is about the Justicesystem.net:

Media Feeding Frenzy Subsists on Morsels

By James Rainey
Times Staff Writer

February 5, 2005

SANTA MARIA, Calif. — The international media beamed the news from this modest city around the globe, and it amounted to this: Michael Jackson wore a white suit. Then he wore a black suit. He appeared serious. And so did many Santa Barbara County residents, determined to stay off a jury that may take five months to decide whether the pop star is guilty of molesting a teenage boy.

With 500 journalists and two dozen satellite trucks laying siege to the Royce R. Lewellen Justice Center earlier this week, some wondered: What happens when real news breaks out?

They will have to wait a while longer to find out, because court officials announced Friday that jury selection would be delayed several days. The reason is that the sister of Jackson's lead attorney is gravely ill.

Some 250 prospective jurors are still to report to the courthouse Monday for administrative processing. However, their questioning in open court by attorneys on both sides will not start until at least Thursday.

On Monday, Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Rodney S. Melville will hear a request by the media for access to questionnaires that were filled out last week by the prospective jurors.

Neither Jackson nor defense attorney Thomas Mesereau will be in court for that hearing.

Journalists assigned to the trial seem alternately energized, appalled and amused by the spectacle they are helping to create. They might be alarmed, but many have come to accept their fate, trapped inside the celebrity infotainment machine.

It's a place where Fox News' Geraldo Rivera declares Jackson the victim of an "avalanche of injustice" and promises to shave his mustache if the pop singer is convicted. It's where Court TV's Nancy Grace furrows her brow and waves her small fist to show how she would respond if a grown man tried to get in bed with her nephew. It's where Vanity Fair's Maureen Orth, in a radio interview, describes how the defendant's sense of right and wrong might be skewed by a case of "situational narcissism."

The television headliners pace the narrow, fenced press pit in front of the courthouse along with hundreds of reporters from mainstream newspapers and television stations. If the lines between information and advocacy had already become indistinct, this trial should make them fuzzier still.

Witness the arrival in Santa Maria of justicesystem.net. Former Jackson defense attorney Mark Geragos owns a principal interest in the video-streaming website, which has deployed three Jackson boosters to file dispatches from the trial.

Many establishment journalists get queasy being thrown in with such alternative media. But none of them are going away anytime soon. All seem to agree, more or less, with the assessment of Nick Papps of News Limited, Australia's 10-million-reader newspaper chain.

"Michael Jackson is the biggest fall from grace we have had in the popular culture in some time," Papps said as he waited for a press credential. "This is as big as it gets."

Though the main invasion force stormed Santa Maria only last week, the first media wave hit the beach more than a year ago for Jackson's arraignment.

New England Satellite Systems had already taken over a three-unit apartment building across from the single-story court by then and begun transforming it into a production facility with studios, 17 video-editing stations and enough hardware to transmit a dozen television signals simultaneously worldwide. ABC demonstrated its long-term commitment in recent days when it installed a new sidewalk over the cable it laid to its courthouse-adjacent offices.

Court TV's Diane Dimond made her name when she broke the news 12 years ago of earlier molestation allegations against Jackson. Back for the long haul this time, Dimond dragged so many clothes west from New York that, as she quipped to USA Today, it "looked like Imelda Marcos going through the airport."

Santa Marians are determined not to let their moment in the spotlight go unexploited.

Lawyer Michael Clayton leased his office rooftop for $2,500 a day to "Entertainment Tonight" and other broadcasters. Someone hacked the tops off the cherry trees across the street in the dead of night, ensuring an unobstructed camera shot of the spot where Jackson's black SUV arrives each day.

Behind the courthouse, the women who own the Bistro Coffee Diem installed wireless Internet service. That helped quadruple business and make their tiny cafe a favorite, the news set lolling under umbrellas and poring over laptops .

It all began Sunday, with reporters waiting as long as 4½ hours to get a press credential. That gave them access only to the narrow media pen in the courthouse parking lot.

The journalists remained mostly frisky and collegial in the long line, though some grumbled when Marcia Clark, the former O.J. Simpson prosecutor and current "Entertainment Tonight" commentator, cut to a spot her colleagues had saved her near the front of the line.

There were quiet cracks about Clark's newly blond hair, about the convenient reversal of her onetime disdain for the media, even about her tactics in the mother of all celebrity trials 10 years ago. "Why'd you let him try on the glove?" one reporter called after the former deputy district attorney.

Even without Clark's presence, comparisons to Simpson's murder trial were ubiquitous.

"This is going to be easier than O.J. for us," said Luca Celada, a correspondent for the Italian national television network, RAI. "That was so big, we had to cover it. But we always had to explain who O.J. Simpson was.

"This is Michael Jackson. It's celebrity, it's prurient and it's easy to tell. It works for us."

News organizations came up with a variety of ways to play the story.

The New York Times buried its opening-day story on Page 12, while the Washington Post put it on the front of its features section. The Los Angeles Times, in contrast, ran Jackson's photograph and a story on Page 1 of its front section.

A CNN producer, finishing Day One of the trial with a cold drink in the darkened Tap Room of the Santa Maria Inn, expressed misgivings privately about her network's fixation on the story.

"It's a monumental day with the voting in Iraq. And we lead with the Jackson story? This is the new reality…. But it's a water-cooler story. Everyone will talk about it. What can you do?"

Geragos' news partner and the reporters for his website expressed no such ambivalence. They want to cover the story big.

Every weekday at 11 a.m. the partner, Carol Angela Davis, posts a five-minute video report on the website. She offers sympathetic views on the legal travails of celebrities such as Robert Blake and Courtney Love ("Go Courtney!").

But lately, justicesystem.net has focused on Jackson. Davis chided Santa Barbara County Dist. Atty. Tom Sneddon when a sealed grand jury transcript was leaked to the media. Melville took a hit for giving seven courtroom seats to the media but none to Jackson's parents.

"This lends further and further credence to the fact that in America now, more and more people are being tried by the media and not by the justice system," Davis said in one report.

The Jackson boosters who received credentials to cover the trial for the website are Sharon Sidney, a baby-faced security guard from Santa Maria; Gail Felix, a former drug and alcohol rehabilitation counselor from Tracy, Calif.; and Angel Howansky, spokeswoman for Jackson's parents.

Conceding that they are not trained journalists, they argue that they will be fairer than some, including Court TV's Dimond, who they say are shills for the prosecution. "Somebody needs to make sure the other side is mentioned," said Davis, a former Chicago television journalist and law school graduate. "That is just being fair."

Davis anchors the web reports from her office at Geragos & Geragos in downtown Los Angeles. But she and Geragos insist that the celebrity lawyer has nothing to do with the trial coverage. (Geragos dropped from Jackson's defense last April when he was immersed in Scott Peterson's murder defense.)

"I don't know anything about it. I'm an investor; that's all I am," Geragos said in an interview. "I have purposefully distanced myself from this case."

Justicesystem.net has not been allocated any of the 47 courtroom seats set aside for the media when testimony begins later this month. A committee of journalists, divvying up the spots, concluded that the website could not demonstrate an audience as big as other news outlets.

But Jackson fans have not rolled over. Late last week, a UCLA student called court officials to say she would be serving as a reporter intern for

justice system.net and needed a special spot because she was disabled.

Darrel Parker, administrator of the Santa Maria court complex, guesses what might be coming next. "I think," Parker said, "they are going to try to make this an ADA issue."

The Americans With Disabilities Act requires the disabled to have access to public facilities.

But Davis and Geragos had nothing more to say.

The celebrity lawyer said he could not answer questions, even in his role as news executive, because of a gag order in the case.

"I don't want to do anything to skirt the gag order," Geragos said. "I don't want to even appear to skirt it, either in its letter or its spirit."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...=la-home-local
Ratner introduced Koppelman to MJ:links

http://www.muckety.com/Charles-A-Koppelman/3934.muckety
link to Brett Ratner, Brian Koppelman son, EMI music publishing, EMI Records group

http://www.thedailybeast.com/beast-board/member/brian-koppelman/
pic of Brian Koppelman & his movies

http://popdirt.com/*****-turned-to-brett-ratner-for-financial-advise/17081/
RF – mj intro to C Koppelman thru Ratner via Brian Koppelman

http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2004/11/15/brett_ratner_after_the_sunset_interview.shtml
interview of Ratner, Talks about Brian Koppelman



Gordon Novel is a very interesting character:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Novel

who doesn't work with shady characters? it sheds light on something. the only reason why the media brought this up, where Michael is concerned, is, even though it wasn't intended, by the media, even THEY noticed, that MJ's shining light, makes it more noticeable.

jrsfan said:

Faye, Bush & Tompkins in the recent interview seemed very honest to me.

Click to expand...

Karen Faye did not say nice things on facebook, twitter and bla bla bla. I do not trust any of these people who were working for Michael and all those others who were close to him. There are so many lies in this whole story that is hard to say what is true or false, or who to believe. :thinking:

Why did MJ fire Karen when he went abroad after the trial? I remember some conflict going there but forget what it was. And then suddenly when TII started, the old crew from Karen to Dileo and Branca were all back in MJs life and then BAM, he was gone.

But Karen Faye worked for Michael for 30 years or something. I have a hard time accepting that his judgement of her character was totally wrong. (wich I don't think it were.)

Ashtanga said:

Karen Faye did not say nice things on facebook, twitter and bla bla bla. I do not trust any of these people who were working for Michael and all those others who were close to him. There are so many lies in this whole story that is hard to say what is true or false, or who to believe. :thinking:

Click to expand...

I was not on her facebook or twitter, I'm a bit tech challenged, just got a twitter to tweet at the court appearance in May?- I read part of the threads on her at KOP, it seemed to me she was grieving from what I read - & seemed to be going over everything in her mind. People do that after a tragedy, second guessing everything - full of should haves. She would have been better off not being on twitter or facebook IMO - any inconsistencies will come up in court, plus it opens her up to alot of srutiny - if I was her friend, I would say don't do it. I think she does get criticism unfairly because people are jealous of her relationship with MJ. But if the other 2 men testify to basically the same thing, I think that would be powerful to a jury.

I don't think KF, Bush or Tomkins had any power, nor were in any position to do shady things to MJ - maybe to sell stories to the tabs - but I don't think they did. There was the pic at FL - I don't know whether she got paid for that. It was very moving to me when she talked about getting him ready for court. I was glued to the TV every morning during the trial.

I do agree with you, it is hard to sort the truth - but they are more likely to tell the truth - they do not have the financial interests that AEG, Sony, Dileo, Murray, etc does. It takes brave people to come forward with the truth in these situations as whistleblowers are retaliated against.

Dangerous Incorporated said:

Why did MJ fire Karen when he went abroad after the trial? I remember some conflict going there but forget what it was. And then suddenly when TII started, the old crew from Karen to Dileo and Branca were all back in MJs life and then BAM, he was gone.

Click to expand...

It was never totally clear to me - some people said that he just didn't need a makeup artist in Bahrain, which I believe was true. He was also short on money after the trial. I don't think she ever worked continuously for him anyway, but just on tours & appearances. She was in pictures right beside him in New York in 2002 for the Sony protest for instance. But there was a disagreement, what I remember is that it had to do with MJJSource. I don't think she was ever really out though. She & Randy (from threads I read, no inside info) worked on that & after the trial MJ decided not to support it & she was upset about that as there were obligations that were not met. I think some fans won a lunch or something with MJ & there was the subscriptions for a year. I don't know how many they actually sold. RF (I think it was him) said it cost $100,000 for it to come up first on google - not sure if that was per year, per month? She did come to fan vigils before & during the trial - posted on the boards as Turkle.

Here's an old thread from MJFC & one from:

http://boardreader.com/thread/Karen_Faye_Sacked_35tX6ja.html

this one from kop:
http://www.mjj2005.com/kopboard/ind...6&pid=299022&mode=threaded&start=#entry299022

in the thread from kop, Karen responded to someone asking if it were true she & Evvy were fired:

Some things are true and some are not. I have not been "dismissed" and neither has Evvy. Michael can not dismiss me because I only work with him on a job to job basis. LOL. Roger doesn't always get it right...

Karen


Jackson Shuts Out Closest Aides
Thursday, November 10, 2005
By Roger Friedman

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175138,00.html

Michael Jackson’s world is one of constant upheaval. But the latest news from Jackson is more disturbing than usual. Sources tell me the disloyal, capricious ex-King of Pop has fired both of his closest confidantes.

More headaches: His website, www.mjjsource.com, which was run by his brother Randy and former stylist Karen Faye, is gone as well, leaving subscribers and fan club members high and dry.

Now I’m told that Faye has been dismissed along with aide de camp/keeper of all secrets, Evvy Tavasci.

The loss of Tavasci, more than Faye, is a huge blow to Jackson’s equilibrium even if he doesn’t know it. She’s been the backstop for all of his kookiness as well as legal and personal wrangling. In the last couple of years she moved Jackson’s MJJ Productions out of rental offices in Los Angeles and into her own home. When Jackson got into trouble with the Arvizo family, it was Tavasci who kept track of them. Her name came up in court last spring dozens of times.

Faye is a different story. She’s operated as Jackson’s confidante also, and appears with him in the outtakes of Martin Bashir’s documentary. Toward the end of the trial last spring it was rumored that Faye was no longer doing Jackson’s makeup because her fee was too high. But she continued to help run his website, www.mjjforum.com. Unfortunately, the site is now shut down for the second time this year. There isn’t even a page left up to explain what happened.

This is the second time this year that the website has abruptly been closed. It was the invention of Michael’s brother Randy, who had two assistants. “They’re all gone,” says a source, including Randy. I told you a couple of weeks ago in this space that Jackson was in trouble again financially, that Neverland was for sale, and that employees were leaving because of missed payroll checks. Now the end really seems to be in sight for this bloated enterprise.

As if to make matters worse, Michael’s father, Joseph Jackson, has kept busy promoting himself at Michael’s expense with his new “Hip Hop Boot Camp.” Jackson senior, always eager to make a buck off his son, recently gave interviews about this sort of quasi-reality show accompanied by a man named “Charles Kopay,” who happily supplied quotes to the wire services.

But “Kopay,” is in fact Charles Coupet, a New Yorker who runs a miscellaneous company called Tech Systems Ltd. Last spring I reported that Coupet was in business with freelance “international journalist” Daphne Barak, who’d recommended Coupet as a literary agent to Macaulay Culkin’s father when he wanted to publish a book. Why did Coupet change the spelling of his name for this new round of interviews? It’s unclear, but his secretary—who returned a call—told me she’d never heard of the Jacksons, hip hop boot camp, or Barak.

“You must have the wrong person,” she said. Alas, we have precisely the right person based on an extensive investigation.


Note: RF named mjjforum as his website in error, s/b mjjsource

All of this is so confusing...
I always thought Brett Ratner and the Malniks were close with Michael up till the very end...The answer to this might have been in one of the articles previously posted in this thread, but can someone explain to me what Malnik and Ratner did to betray MJ and when they quit speaking to each other? I mean weren't MJ's kids hanging out with Malnik's after his death...and Al Malnik was sure speaking about MJ in a positive light in the interviews after his death. Brett and Malnik were the last people I would think were against MJ...and what about Chris Tucker? I recall seeing a picture of ALL 3 of them posing with MJ. Is he in this mix too?

jrsfan said:

I was not on her facebook or twitter, I'm a bit tech challenged, just got a twitter to tweet at the court appearance in May?- I read part of the threads on her at KOP, it seemed to me she was grieving from what I read - & seemed to be going over everything in her mind. People do that after a tragedy, second guessing everything - full of should haves. She would have been better off not being on twitter or facebook IMO - any inconsistencies will come up in court, plus it opens her up to alot of srutiny - if I was her friend, I would say don't do it. I think she does get criticism unfairly because people are jealous of her relationship with MJ. But if the other 2 men testify to basically the same thing, I think that would be powerful to a jury.

I don't think KF, Bush or Tomkins had any power, nor were in any position to do shady things to MJ - maybe to sell stories to the tabs - but I don't think they did. There was the pic at FL - I don't know whether she got paid for that. It was very moving to me when she talked about getting him ready for court. I was glued to the TV every morning during the trial.

I do agree with you, it is hard to sort the truth - but they are more likely to tell the truth - they do not have the financial interests that AEG, Sony, Dileo, Murray, etc does. It takes brave people to come forward with the truth in these situations as whistleblowers are retaliated against.

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It's that simple. If you have no control over himself, about his actions and what you say to the press, to other people, facebook, twitter and bla bla bla, you obviously will do everything wrong and the result will be very disastrous. No matter the situation, people must learn to have control for not to do wrong things (it's just my opinion). Most fans do not trust in Karen. Fact. I'm more radical, I do not trust anyone who was around Michael. -_-

Another Question: If the Malnik & Jackson families had such a huge falling out, why were MJ's kids still hanging with the Malnik kids after MJ passed? What explains all the leaked pictures of Paris and Spencer?? Apparently the the Jackson family along with Michael knew of the Mottola-Malnik conspiracy, so why were they still in touch after Michael died?

Ashtanga said:

It's that simple. If you have no control over himself, about his actions and what you say to the press, to other people, facebook, twitter and bla bla bla, you obviously will do everything wrong and the result will be very disastrous. No matter the situation, people must learn to have control for not to do wrong things (it's just my opinion). Most fans do not trust in Karen. Fact. I'm more radical, I do not trust anyone who was around Michael. -_-

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I agree with the fact that KF should have had more control - she should have done more sharing with close friends in private as her testimony is important. Or she should have come forward publicly with everything that she felt had gone wrong, was an important part of the story - pretty much immediately & let the chips fall wherever. She would have been blackballed though, & maybe she is not in a financial position to withstand that. I am guessing though that KF is around 50 & perhaps Bush & Tompkins are too - not old enough to retire. Saying stuff on twitter, facebook etc is damaging, I agree. I don't think that those 3 though are part of any conspiracy or did damage to MJ though - so to me they wouldn't be shady. We do not know their full stories. KF did bring her concerns to Dileo & they had that meeting with the doctor on the 19th of June.

ForeverKOP said:

Another Question: If the Malnik & Jackson families had such a huge falling out, why were MJ's kids still hanging with the Malnik kids after MJ passed? What explains all the leaked pictures of Paris and Spencer?? Apparently the the Jackson family along with Michael knew of the Mottola-Malnik conspiracy, so why were they still in touch after Michael died?

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Good question. I don't understand that either. I believe I read that Nancy Malnik & Grace were friends on this board, so I can't confirm.

I don't understand why Grace was allowed to remain after the interview she gave. Then she was gone in August after a fist fight with Rebbie:
http://www.showbiz411.com/page/80?mcn

Whatever she did with Rebbie must have been really bad as I really can't imagine Rebbie doing that & then she came back after that. She must be a master manipulator.

Malnik claimed he had a will & was executor right after MJ passed too, but later backed away. I think he made a deal - either with Jacksons to clear the way for custody or with the estate.

In one of Joe's filings, he mentioned Branca reported Malnik to the feds for his loan business in Florida for money laundering which was coincidentally right around the same time the Malniks visited & they went to Universal Studios as I recall.

Do we know for sure that the Malnik's are "Evil"...or is this all just based on tabloids and rumors??

ForeverKOP said:

Another Question: If the Malnik & Jackson families had such a huge falling out, why were MJ's kids still hanging with the Malnik kids after MJ passed?

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Grace was fired (information given by TMZ) and by coincidence, children of Malniks, no longer walk with MJ3. At least, I did not know that. Well, never more there were problems from leaks of private videos and etc. ....

ForeverKOP said:

Do we know for sure that the Malnik's are "Evil"...or is this all just based on tabloids and rumors??

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We know for sure Malnik was on the list of conspirators on Justicesystem.net along with Koppelman, Branca, Mottola, Ratner, Trudy Green, Kaufman - so there must have been evidence - came out on April 4, 2005, during the trial. Branca, Koppelman & Malnik were working together at that time to get him to do a Goldman Sachs deal. Branca apparently later reported him for money laundering to the feds.

Malnik was prosecuted in the 80's (?)for organised crime & acquitted. He worked for Meyer Lansky, who he says was just a nice guy - don't believe that. Its been speculated he stole Lansky's money as he died pretty broke, which would not surprise me to be true. He owns Florida Title Loans which has outrageous interest fees:

http://www.floridalegal.org/pages/factsheet.htm


some interesting links about him:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=121420.10;wap2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Lansky

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2009/06/the_malnik_familys_michael_jac.php

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...NwPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=s40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6822,1620062



http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2005/07/orth200507

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-02/michaels-missing-millions/full/

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2009/06/al_malnik_wont_shut_up_about_m.php



Certainly the Malnik children would not be 'evil'. His wife Nancy is a good mother from what I can see. He does alot of philanthropy & seems very concerned with his reputation. However alot of white collar criminals, for example Madoff, Enron execs - gave alot to charity.

As far as leaked pics of Paris & Spencer - could be just hacking. I can't see it making either family happy, but maybe someone else has a different take. Someone did post the vids of Blanket & Paris, which may have been Grace, so maybe she did the pics too.

jrsfan said:

We know for sure Malnik was on the list of conspirators on Justicesystem.net along with Koppelman, Branca, Mottola, Ratner, Trudy Green, Kaufman - so there must have been evidence - came out on April 4, 2005, during the trial. Branca, Koppelman & Malnik were working together at that time to get him to do a Goldman Sachs deal. Branca apparently later reported him for money laundering to the feds.

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Huh?? Justiceystem.net? Was something already filed? Sorry, not familiar with all this stuff.

As far as the leaked pictures go, I wasn't really questioning who gained from leaking them, I was questioning why the Jackson kids were still hanging around the Malnik's if their father Al is such a shady character. :mello:

ForeverKOP said:

Huh?? Justiceystem.net? Was something already filed? Sorry, not familiar with all this stuff.

As far as the leaked pictures go, I wasn't really questioning who gained from leaking them, I was questioning why the Jackson kids were still hanging around the Malnik's if their father Al is such a shady character. :mello:

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Justicesystem.net was an internet news source run by a lawyer, Carol Davis, who works for Geragos. They even had press credentials during the trial. She was really good at it, with just a touch of attitude. If you google, you can still catch a few of her programs on YouTube.

As far as why they were hanging out with the Malnik kids, perhaps it was because as people speculated that Grace was friends with Nancy,as I stated earlier. IDK, whether that is true. Perhaps the sins of the father should not affect the children's relationships.

Ashtanga said:

Karen Faye did not say nice things on facebook, twitter and bla bla bla. I do not trust any of these people who were working for Michael and all those others who were close to him. There are so many lies in this whole story that is hard to say what is true or false, or who to believe. :thinking:

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yes, it is true -_-

KJ777 said:

Wasn't Tucker down there with Michael in Miami as well? What did he know of Mottola's call to speak to Michael at Malnik's place? Chris and Brett seemed friendly. Wonder about it now though. Michael's interview with Ratner seemed genuine and he looks relaxed when speaking...it looks to have taken place in 03 when in Miami. Not sure what to make of it now. If Michael was cornered while down there to speak to Mottola, that's really f*cked up imo. Looking at the photos he doesn't look amused.

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The interview must've taken place toward the beginning of the vacation and then when Malnik thought MJ was relaxed he brought up business about the catalogue. Then he call from Mottola happened and Michael became very suspicious. I don't think he hung out with Ratner after that.

He's not smiling one bit in any photos. Not like Michael to not smile for photos unless he was very annoyed. JMO

there is this one happy photo. it seems to be taken at the airport.