View Poll Results: Final verdict

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  • AEG liable

    80 48.19%
  • AEG not liable

    86 51.81%
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Thread: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

   
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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by MIST View Post
    What´s the evidence that tell us that AEG knew what happened in Michael´s bedroom?
    Michael's obvious physical and mental deterioration weeks before his passing, despite having a personal doctor for 150,000 $ a month

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Let me correct some misinformation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Thomson
    According to the AEG jury foreperson's logic, outlined outside the court yesterday, Harold Shipman was also 'fit and competent'. [Thomson is making that analogy]

    They said [Murray] was 'fit and competent' because he had a license and went to medical school. That's what the foreman said yesterday.

    By that logic, no qualified doctor can ever be unfit or incompetent.
    Harold Shipman was a serial killer. Thomson's analogy doesn't work for various reasons:
    • A serial killer is mentally ill, thus not being "competent" to work as a doctor.
    • The fact that a serial killer might still have a license is irrelevant, it does not reverse his dangerousness.
    • A serial killer would not lose his technical knowledge but any legal prerequisites like a license are no longer of any relevance to determine "competence", a serial killer is shut off from society for obvious reasons.


    Thomson claims that it would be totally impossible to consider a qualified doctor to be unfit or incompetent. That's utterly wrong:
    • qualification is relevant to determine "competence" - as I explained earlier.
    • fitness has nothing to do with qualification, fitness is all about having (and being able to conduct) the technical knowledge, eg there are doctors that managed to obtain a certain license but who are lacking the required skill(s) for the work they have been hired for, these doctors are "unfit"
    • see above example with Shipman that would still lead to "incompetent"



    Thomson isn't understanding the jury's verdict at all:
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Thomson
    The juror currently ranting on TV has just proved that the panel had absolutely no idea what this case was even about.

    He is ranting that AEG couldn't have known about propofol. That is utterly irrelevant - and jurors were instructed that it was irrelevant.

    It was the Jacksons' lawyer who specifically instructed the jurors that the issue this man is ranting about was irrelevant.
    No comment.
    Last edited by Korgnex; 03-10-2013 at 02:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    My Thoughts on Kathrine Jackson vs. AEG verdict:


    I may get a little bit of heat for saying this, but I’m glad it is finally over. I feel strongly that Kathrine and the rest of the family should move on with their lives, that way Michael’s kids can have peace and continue to grow and learn. I want the children to be able to have a normal, happy , and stable transation into adulthood.


    While I’m glad Kathrine was able to show AEG’s true colors of how they treated Michael, I feel that the kids did not need to be involved. Because of this, they will have to deal with the press a lot more than ever before.
    My love, prayers and support goes out to Prince, Paris, Blanket, The MJ fan base and Michael’s close friends. May this close the door and let another one opens so we can all heal from everything that has happened

    it was always you and me

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    You know, this verdict makes sense actually. I'm glad Katherine didn't win, because she obviously didn't care for Michael either.
    What I'm not understanding though, is why in God's name she didn't seek restitution against Murray? He's the one who killed her son. Yeah, AEG was responsible too, but they didn't walk out on their patient to go talk on a phone.

    The love of money is ridiculous, and I'd like to give Randy's big head a slap for telling Katherine to do this.

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    She didnt seek restitution against Murray because her lawyers told her doing so would minimize any damages she'd get from a possible lawsuit win against AEG. She chose to opt for AEG because she was after the big $$ not tiny $$. What could Murray possibly offer her.? A couple of $$? That's not what she wanted, she was after millions of $$ if not billions and she went after whoever had it, in this case AEG. She gambled and lost and it serves her right.

    I am convinced the psychopath of a son of hers (Steven Randall) is on the verge of exploding. He will definitely go try to go after the Estate again.
    Wonder who will fund the greasy one's hotel now?
    Last edited by twinklEE; 03-10-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by twinklEE View Post
    She didnt seek restitution against Murray because her lawyers told her doing so would minimize any damages she'd get from a possible lawsuit win against AEG. She chose to opt for AEG because she was after the big $$ not the tiny $$. What could Murray possibly offer her.? A couple of $$? That's not what she wanted, she was after millions of $$ if not billions and she went after whoever had it, in this case AEG. She gambled and lost and it serves her right.

    I am convinced the psychopath of a son of hers (Steven Randall) is on the verge of exploding. He will definitely go try to go after the Estate again.
    Oh boy, here we go again, when will Randy learn to shut up?!? This is just too much...

    it was always you and me

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Since 1993 the MJ fan base has had to deal with many tribulations in support of our beloved Michael. There were times when it wasn’t easy being a Michael Jackson fan, but we remained loyal and strong, building on the strength of each other. But through each and every challenge we all knew where to stand ---beside our Michael and against those who wished to harm or destroy him (including the ultimate destroyer, Conrad Murray). This is the very first time we as the MJ family have been out there on our own. There was no “Michael’s side” to stand on.

    There are sure to be other challenges ahead. The road will not always be easy in the coming months and years. There are those who were just waiting for this trial to end in order to begin their attack. We as “soldiers” for the love of Michael must come together and heal in order to be strong enough to fight for Michael in the future.

    I have my opinions about the civil suit just like everyone else in MJ fan base. But my opinion doesn’t matter. Conrad Murray told Matt Lauer via a telephone interview on the Today show this morning that as soon as he gets out of jail in a few weeks he will come on the show.

    Let’s begin to build strategies for dealing with what is ahead.
    We miss you Michael, oh how we miss you.

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by passy001 View Post
    Murray was well qualified to provide general health care. that's a fact. it's not a question of interpretation.
    For the second time passy it's a question of interpretating q 2, not a 'fact'.

    Barden repeatedly referred to questions, calling them confusing and saying the group wrangled with the language. "There were several votes taken, minds were changed more than once."
    Q2 wasn't unanimous, it was 10-2 split. If you say that q 2 was factually based purely on murray being licensed and not having killed anyone before mj - those are indisputed facts, the plaintiffs never alleged otherwise. So for you the trial was a slam dunk, there was simply no way a jury cd not have found murray competent - so why was there a trial? And why did aeg spend so much of their case on trashing mj and his doctor shopping, his pres drug abuse, his lack of success in his later career and put forward an affirmative defence that mj's death was down to his own negligence not down to who negligently hired murray. Your absolute confidence that murray was 'fit and competent' didn't seem to be shared by the court or by aeg. It was left to the jury to decide and interpret as they saw fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by korgnex
    If Murray was hired for general medical care, him causing manslaughter of MJ wouldn't make him unfit or incompetent for performing the work for which he was hired. However I think, like you, some jurors also might not know these legal terms here:
    "unfit" means Murray was not skilled for the particular work he was hired (eg technical knowledge)
    "incompetent" means Murray was missing a legal prerequisite for the particular work he was hired (a qualification).
    Why wd jurors know what your legal terms for fitness and competence are? If they were necessary for them to reach their decision they wd be in the jury instructions. Are they in as i didn't see them. If they're not in, the jurors wd just use what they regard as their own interpretation of these words, not yours.
    Last edited by Bonnie Blue; 03-10-2013 at 03:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    ^^ Did Matt offer for Murray to come to the show, or did Murray volunteer? And if Murray volunteered, did Lauer reject or accept the offer?

    And I agree that we need to be proactive as opposed to reactive. We need to make it clear that treating Murray like a celebrity, instead of a criminal, is disgraceful and unacceptable.
    Michael Jackson (1958 - 2009): You Do Not Define Him So You Cannot Confine Him!

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    My biggest fear is that he will be treated as a celebrity after all he he took down Michael Jackson. Many tried just that but in vain, including the media. I pray to God that common sense will prevail and people will not treat him as a hero. He took a human beings life he shouldn't be rewarded for that.

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    I am disappointed in the outcome. I am sure Conrad Murray was a good doctor for everyday medical needs. But so was Harold Shipman (Americans who do not know Shipman was a English doctor who killed numerous of his patients) But he is in jail for homicide I hear he is due out next month. He should serve his whole sentence. Hope he never practises again. He should not be allowed to write a book on the subject. How many out there would pay for this. I think the wording of the jury form should have been different. Maybe and appeal. Anyway, AEG are an arrogant bunch and don't deserve to win!

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    ^^ Did Matt offer for Murray to come to the show, or did Murray volunteer? And if Murray volunteered, did Lauer reject or accept the offer?

    And I agree that we need to be proactive as opposed to reactive. We need to make it clear that treating Murray like a celebrity, instead of a criminal, is disgraceful and unacceptable.
    End of interview...
    Matt: Dr. Murray we will look forward to talking to you hopefully when you get our of jail in a couple of weeks. We thank you for your time this morning.

    Murray: I look forward to speaking with you, I'd like to have a conversation in its entirety when I get out.

    Matt: Ok, we look forward to it.


    Not sure if this link for interview will work:
    http://www.today.com/video/today/53173679#53173679

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday View Post
    Michael's obvious physical and mental deterioration weeks before his passing, despite having a personal doctor for 150,000 $ a month
    That in no way implies Michael was being given propofol in his bedroom.

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie Blue View Post
    Why wd jurors know what your legal terms for fitness and competence are? If they were necessary for them to reach their decision they wd be in the jury instructions. Are they in as i didn't see them. If they're not in, the jurors wd just use what they regard as their own interpretation of these words, not yours.
    These are not my definitions, these are legal definitions that apply to international law in various countries.
    Does this answer your question?
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Barden (jury foreman)
    [...] And to look at the definition of fit and competent [...]
    Last edited by Korgnex; 03-10-2013 at 03:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday View Post
    Michael's obvious physical and mental deterioration weeks before his passing, despite having a personal doctor for 150,000 $ a month
    It could have been something Klein gave him, it could have been mentally(just like Ortega thought)
    In the Murray trial experts couldn´t say why Michael was so much better his last rehearsals, it was possible it had nothing to do with drugs it could have been mentally.
    "How much did I really know about life on earth? What responsibility did I feel for creatures outside my little space?
    How could I lead my life so that every cell of living matter was also benefited?" Michael Jackson
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