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Why do so many people dismiss his work from the 90's?

analogue

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Is it because it's considered ''cool'' to only like MJ from the 80's? He made his best and most creative work in the 90's. Who Is It, Will You Be There, Give Into Me, Stranger In Moscow, They Don't Care About Us and Is It Scary are masterpieces.
 
analogue;4092441 said:
Is it because it's considered ''cool'' to only like MJ from the 80's? He made his best and most creative work in the 90's. Who Is It, Will You Be There, Give Into Me, Stranger In Moscow, They Don't Care About Us and Is It Scary are masterpieces.
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I think a large part of this dismissal (from ‘Dangerous’ onwards) originated from critics...
 
I think many people don't even know much of his work from the 90s. But what they know is pretty popular, eg. TDCAU, Earth Song, Black or White, Remember The Time.
 
mj_frenzy;4092442 said:
I think a large part of this dismissal (from ‘Dangerous’ onwards) originated from critics...
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A lot of times critics didn't even review his music. They reviewed his personal life
 
If you're talking about general public I think most people confuse "his succesful works" with "his 80's work" and forget the 90's had quite impressive milestones, when you remind them which songs and videos he had in the 90's they go "oh you're right!". The rest are ignorant fools :lol:
 
analogue said:
A lot of times critics didn't even review his music. They reviewed his personal life
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I agree, but when they focused on his music, for the most part they reviewed it not in the most favorably way.
 
I've heard people say that they prefer his 80's work because they thought he looked better back then. Isn't that just some fantastic logic? lol
 
I'm a big Fan of Thriller/Bad Era. but I think that people think that "he looked better " in this two era, but music it's not about "how he looks" .
 
analogue said:
A lot of times critics didn't even review his music. They reviewed his personal life
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Couldn't put it better in words!

Dangerous. Such a wonderful. Better than Thriller. No doubt about that. The lyrics, his vocals, the beat of the song, the album cover, his looks.. it was all perfect!
What a shame that the album didn't get the attention and praise it deserved.

From 1 side I'm happy that he didn't tour in the States during the Dangerous tour. But from the other side touring may have helped the album....
 
analogue;4092459 said:
I've heard people say that they prefer his 80's work because they thought he looked better back then. Isn't that just some fantastic logic? lol
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People always kept making (unintentionally or not) a comparison between each new release & ‘Thriller’ (in every way).
 
I sometimes get impression that people don't even know his albums after Bad.
 
It probably depends on the country you're from, but I don't get the impression at all that his 90s work doesn't count to people. I remember back in 1997 when I was 12 (almost 13) and in the hospital, one of the guys who worked there went to a HIStory concert. Our entire station was excited that he would go. We had 1 huuuge MJ fan, she was 17. But we all acted the same, telling him to absorb as much as he can to tell us later :D There was one group room with sound system and trust me, HIStory was played everyday for hours so loud the entire station heard it, even though it started to annoy the hell out of the staff :dancin:
The guy came back with a tour book for that fan :)
Anyway, I find it hard to believe that all those people who were my generation acted the way they did even as nonfans and wouldn't appreciate his work during those days nowadays. Not possible. MJ left a mark on all of them, I'm sure.
Another example a few weeks ago I wanted to show my Dad a certain Heal the world performance, but only had the vid for the entire show. So I kept skipping and pausing and all that. One time I hit the play button again the very same second I asked to myself "Is that Heal the world?" I was mumbling to myself the moment I hit play, but my Dad (who is NOT into MJ, but very respectful and listens whenever I have a fan moment :D ) IMMEDIATELY said "yes". He didn't need 2 seconds to listen, he knew. MJ's 90s work lives well, just like all the other decades.
I think it's just because Thriller is so big and supposed to be the one and all. But when you actually talk to people, they are well aware of all the other work he's done :)
Maybe it's a generation thing? Like some people who grew up with J5 will sure miss those days and therefore not appreciate MJ's later work as much anymore. Same with Thriller era. Heck, same with Invincible.
But every generation takes something with them. Those people I was in the hospital with sure remember the awesome 90s with MJ, even if they might not be the fan today.
And IMO all those generations in general melt together and give the full picture to the future.
 
^ Yes, I think it's mainly the US that ignores his 90s work (the allegations played a big part of his decline in popularity). He was still very popular elsewhere in the 90s-2000s.
 
People ignore his 90's material because they like to keep the narrative going that 'after Bad his career nose dived'. That we all know is bullshit
 
respect77 said:
^ Yes, I think it's mainly the US that ignores his 90s work (the allegations played a big part of his decline in popularity). He was still very popular elsewhere in the 90s-2000s.
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It's so weird though to imagine how awful it was in US, bc the media here wasn't nice either. Yet you could still see all the ill kids and teens making party to him and not being bothered by any of that shit :)
I think over here the shift came somewhere around 2000 and then of course the new allegations. Although I wasn't a kid at that time anymore, so it's possible children still celebrated him just like I did and I just wasn't "in the know" anymore:laugh: but from all I read still not as bad as it was in US. Hard and so sad to imagine, bc our press was awful too (and still is at times).
 
Because, by and large, black music wasn't allowed to be challenging or thought-provoking or carry a message.

Michael Jackson was too difficult for the white mainstream to pigeon hole. So they dismissed the lot.
 
ChrisC said:
Because, by and large, black music wasn't allowed to be challenging or thought-provoking or carry a message.

Michael Jackson was too difficult for the white mainstream to pigeon hole. So they dismissed the lot.
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People wanted him to forever sing harmless and fun pop songs like Rock With You for the rest of his life. One song that critics praised the most (or bashed the least) from the 90's was You Are Not Alone. Probably because it was a simple love song. It's funny because I think You Are Not Alone is one of his weaker song. It's not bad, but he's done better. Much better
 
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mj_frenzy;4092523 said:
People always kept making (unintentionally or not) a comparison between each new release & ‘Thriller’ (in every way).
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Isn't that common for artists though, for their works to be compared to what people perceive as their best work? Just about every film Martin Scorsese has made since Goodfellas has been compared to that film in one way or another because many perceive it as the best film in his filmography.
 
His 90s work is overlooked because his changing appearance and the allegations overshadowed the music.
Simple as that. No matter how you felt about those things, it took a life of its own.
 
HIStoric said:
Isn't that common for artists though, for their works to be compared to what people perceive as their best work? Just about every film Martin Scorsese has made since Goodfellas has been compared to that film in one way or another because many perceive it as the best film in his filmography.
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It is common & I agree that applies to any field of art.
 
analogue;4092579 said:
People wanted him to forever sing harmless and fun pop songs like Rock With You for the rest of his life. One song that critics praised the most (or bashed the least) from the 90's was You Are Not Alone. Probably because it was a simple love song. It's funny because I think You Are Not Alone is one of his weaker song. It's not bad, but he's done better. Much better
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On the face of it, ‘You are not Alone’ seems to be a simple (or funny) song.

But, when you take a deeper, closer look at the way MJ sings these specific lyrics, it really sounds like a very sad, poignant confession.
 
Because like the OP said, it's 'cool' to think MJ lost it after the 80s. Many people on the internet are trolls or haters. They bash people just for the sake of appearing 'cool' and as if they're more educated than anyone around them. I was reading this article http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2009/jul/06/michael-jackson-dangerous , note that the most up-voted comment is the least substantive and doesn't have any material to back its claim.

With the allegations, and the 'changing appearance' thingy going on for MJ, the tabloids were trying to make it a trend to downgrade him. It probably agitated them when he continued to break records and sell tens of millions of albums, so the stories got wilder and more aggressive. The critics sided with the tabloids showing how little IQ they possessed and judged him based on their findings - not on the music itself. They were trying to convince everyone that MJ was a has-been. An example is that allmusic gave Off The Wall a 5 star rating, and Dangerous a 3.5 star rating. I love Off The Wall, but Dangerous was far bigger and more artistic than OTW could ever be.

What they were trying to do was convincing people that, that was the good era, and this is the shit era, just for the sake of downplaying him. Many people, being the ignorant, ill-informed, talentless with no artistic viewpoint sheep, followed suit. I'm guessing all of this was because MJ was a genuinely good person who gave hundreds of millions to charity, and it is always easier to strip down a good person than a 'bad boy'. Not saying that MJ couldn't be a bad boy when he needed to be, but he was generally a soft spoken nice guy.

It's like Pete Burns said (though I'm not a fan of his persona, but he does raise a point) :

"I think that the media were putting his plastic surgery and his lifestyle on trial; the kid was nothing to do with it. Suddenly, the public, like ****ing harpies, could possibly get a tour around his house and see him without the make-up and the wig. They wanted to storm Neverland - 'Off with his head! Oh, did you abuse the kid? Oh, sorry, we forgot...' Had he been Tupac Shakur and surrounded by women with cannonball boobs in a Jacuzzi and Mai-Tai cocktails with umbrellas in them, they'd have thought it was great. But, because Jackson is surrounded by jack-in-the-boxes and Andy Pandy dolls, people found that really creepy."

And by the way, I don't think his looks changed that much, just his skin tone and hair and make up:

http://www.sfbayview.com/wp-content...from-David-Alston’s-Mahogany-Archives-web.jpg

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/michael-jackson-dangerous-era.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d9/46/09/d94609670e9a445d200db82bc903fd95.jpg

It was pure tabloid rubbish that he altered his face repeatedly.
 
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Off The Wall and Thriller are his most praised work, because a lot of people saw those albums where MJ was being true to his roots. People view Off The Wall and Thriller as his ''blackest albums''
 
How is Dangerous any less black? New jack swing has black roots from hip hop and R&B and was created by black producers Teddy Riley and Babyface. Invincible was totally R&B with maybe two electro songs. If that's why Thriller (which is more pop oriented than almost any other album he's made) and Off The Wall are preferred, than that makes no sense - unless you take into account his appearance which was because of a disease he couldn't control.
 
MAQ;4092669 said:
How is Dangerous any less black? New jack swing has black roots from hip hop and R&B and was created by black producers Teddy Riley and Babyface. Invincible was totally R&B with maybe two electro songs. If that's why Thriller (which is more pop oriented than almost any other album he's made) and Off The Wall are preferred, than that makes no sense - unless you take into account his appearance which was because of a disease he couldn't control.
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Add also to this ‘post Thriller’ list of (R’n’B) producers: Rodney Jerkins, R. Kelly, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Rene Moure, Dallas Austin, Elliot Straite (Dr. Freeze), etc.
 
MAQ said:
How is Dangerous any less black? New jack swing has black roots from hip hop and R&B and was created by black producers Teddy Riley and Babyface. Invincible was totally R&B with maybe two electro songs. If that's why Thriller (which is more pop oriented than almost any other album he's made) and Off The Wall are preferred, than that makes no sense - unless you take into account his appearance which was because of a disease he couldn't control.
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I think people use the ''He abandon his black roots after Thriller'' argument as an excuse to take credit away from his later works
 
Journalists and 'music critics' couldn't separate his changing image from his evolving musical work.
 
I've read critics deride his later work because he wasn't singing fluffy love songs like he did on OTW and Thriller and had supposedly turned 'paranoid and angry'. To me Michael's later work from Bad onwards trumps most of the material from OTW and Thriller. MJ had things to say and that to me is more appealing.
 
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