Prince and Michael Jackson The Rivalry and the Revolution

Bubs

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Every thing i wanted said about MJ. And Jon Pareles, in this piece is the ny times music critic, who started the TDCAU controversy. The song was leaked to him. Prince passing makes it clear why Pareles hates MJ so much. Never saw this guy's face, prince dies and he is every where on tv acting like a prince groupie, recalling the visits to paisley park etc. How rich!!!
 
Pareles was on a special I saw in November praising Michael to the skies. Amusing, knowing what had been written in the past.

I read this article on my newsfeed and halfway thru I was thinking this has to be one of the best articles I've ever read about Michael and Prince. Only to glance up at the byline and see it was written by Joe Vogel.
Should have known. Great, great article.
 
Michael and Prince are two amazing artists! I do not think there is this rivalry nor has reason for this...also, rest in peace Prince :angel:
 
Do you guys think that there is a picture of them two together laying around somewhere? That would be awesome, to finally see a pic of them together
 
Speaking of the 'rivalry' between to the two, do you guys think that "Purple Rain" is just as epic in scale as "Earth Song"?
 
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This is the track that Prince supposedly submited to MJ for Bad. What do you think? Do you think MJ could have done something with this one?

[youtube]b-ztk22RUcI[/youtube]
 
I think it is a bit underwhelming for a duet between two giants (not that Bad is one of MJ's best songs). It reminds me of those duets and collaborators that MJ did in the early 1980s with Dave Mason, Kenny Loggins and others. Kind of that level. Though I think MJ could have elevated it with his singing. Nor does it fit MJ's concept for the album I think.
 
This is the track that Prince supposedly submited to MJ for Bad. What do you think? Do you think MJ could have done something with this one?

[youtube]b-ztk22RUcI[/youtube]
I like this very much, but agree-not certain if it would fit on BAD. All the BAD songs immediately conjure up a movie (even before the videos). But it IS a demo-so... Now, did Prince send this to him as a duet-or did he just want Michael to record it solo?
 
Another side note- during the breakdown at the end of Billie Jean on the Dangerous tour, is this a nod to Prince's "Let's Work" ?

When Siedah, Kevin, Daryl and Dorian sing "Let's Work" at the beginning of the dance?
 
I think most of this rivalry was dreamed up to titillate us all. I go with the understanding, that in the early and mid 1980s there may have been some, but after Prince's later albums did not reach Purple Rain levels of fame, Michael relaxed and over time they became friends.

To mesome evidence, is that they avoided releasing albums at the same time. Prince albums came out months or even years later than MJ. Okay Thriller came out some 2 months after 1999, but at the time Prince was barely known outside R and B and a few nightclub circles, 1999 was not a huge breakthrough until Little Red Corvette was a big hit (US #6) in May 1983 (The single was released in Feb, but took a long time to hit). The original release of 1999 as a single in August 1982 was a flop stiffing at 45 on the pop chart. Then Delirious got to #8 in August and 1999 was released again hitting #12 in November 1983. The last single of 1999 was a flop and it was the rather explicit "Lets Pretend were married" which included the f word several times and graphic rape fantasy lyrics. 1999 the album never climbed above #9 on the chart, whereas Thriller was #1 for 37 weeks, Thriller sold 30 million copies in the period Dec 1982 to June 1984 (With 50 million more since), 1999 sold 2 million copies in comparison. The Thriller era, Michael Jackson was a much bigger star.

Sign o the Times which had 2 Top 3 hits and hit #3 was released in March 1987, by the Time bad arrived in August, SOTT was in freefall as Prince had not done a tour of the USA (Only Europe) and the 2nd single "If I was ur girlfriend" was a colossal flop stalling in the 60s. The song a cult classic was not understood by pop audiences at large. U got the look the 3rd single came out in August and hit #2 in October, but kept out of the top by Bad and I wanna dance with somebody by Whitney Houston. Prince's next album Lovesexy, another cult fan favourite came out in May 1988 and was an even bigger flop with only Top 10 hit Alphabet street which stopped at #10, and the other two singles (Glam Slam, Eye wish u heaven) which were minor hits elsewhere, failed the chart in the increasingly bland and hip hop fuelled late 1980s. Lovesexy was his first album not to go Top 10 since 1981's Controversy stalling at #11. The Lovesexy tour did well in Europe, but it was shadowed by the phenomenon of 1988 - Michael Jackson's Bad, with its 5 x #1 hits and a massive tour.

Dnagerous was released 2 months after Diamonds and Pearls, again Dangerous had 8 top 40 hits including 3 Top 5s and a #1 hit. Prince's Diamonds and Pearls was a comeback of sorts selling 3 million copies, and having 4 Top 30 hits and also a number one with Cream. But the album is not that well regarded by Prince fans, being a trend following with his new rapper Tony M who was very mediocre. Prince's brief chart uptick ended the next year. Dangerous was not quite on the level of Bad and Thriller commercially but still moved 10 times as many copies as Diamonds and Pearls. Unlike Diamonds and Pearls, Dangerous was an outsatnding album and still proved Michael was at the forefront of musical trends with its slick pop and new jack swing sound and the unique MJ touch.

After 1992 there is no contest, Prince went on making most well regarded albums that pleased his fan, whereas Michael had more chart impact, but it did decline from the heights of the previous decade. Prince and MJ respected each other as they grew up and even Prince played up the rivalry. In the 2008 live disc on 21 Nights Prince chats and says "Come on Prince, one photo of you and Michael Jackson together, it could top my career".

I still think both resented the comparisons as they saw it as lazy journalism as the uneducated masses and populist press that serves them, loved to lump Prince and Michael Jackson together, because both were Black pop superstars and had a similar dance sound and were considered quite weird and effete by the crowd at large.In reality I love them for different reasons, Michael as the crowd pleasing, awesome singer and dancer who could write some great songs, yet knew his commercial limitations and was a marketing genius. While I see Prince as the consummate Musician who could write songs of many types, he was a Musician and composer more than a dancer and singer, unlike Michael though Prince could not contain all his creativity and this led to a glut of product, some of which was very poor, whereas Michael was a stickler for quality control.

Also Michael was very shy and reserved, his music was polite and mostly inoffensive, he never swore (Except that one time in Scream) or sang about graphic sex, disrespected women or the like. Prince on the other hand may have been shy and reserved off stage, but he was very fond of swearing gratuitous sex and speaking his mind up to 1998 and then a big social rights crusader afterwards, although the sex had crept back in his post 2010 recordings.

Now I will read the article.
 
I like this very much, but agree-not certain if it would fit on BAD. All the BAD songs immediately conjure up a movie (even before the videos). But it IS a demo-so... Now, did Prince send this to him as a duet-or did he just want Michael to record it solo?

Actually this is the 1979 Demo version he offered Patrice Rushen first.


The 1987 version has an even higher falsetto and an electric drum soundtrack. There are 4 mixes of it, an acoustic mix from 1976 when he wrote it, and these 2, finally a 1993 Mayte version, in which she finally put the song on "Children of the Sun" the album Mayte recorded to please Prince in 1994. They married in 1996.

It's an okay song, but I feel it is too weak for Michael Jackson and Prince was underestimating his talent here, it was more suitable for a female singer like Jill Jones or Apollonia. It is easy to see why Michael did not want it or use it.
 
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After 1992 there is no contest, Prince went on making most well regarded albums that pleased his fan, whereas Michael had more chart impact, but it did decline from the heights of the previous decade.

I guess you mean commercially declined but I have to note that HIStory and the original songs on BOTDF are held in pretty high regard by MJ fans.

As for a potential duet. Prince did a duet with Madonna around the time (late 80s) on her Like A Prayer album but it's a pretty horrible song and duet IMO.


For some reason when two giants come together it doesn't always result in great things. So maybe it is better that MJ and Prince just realized their differences musically and left it at that.
 
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Speaking of the 'rivalry' between to the two, do you guys think that "Purple Rain" is just as epic in scale as "Earth Song"?

Not close. I love Purple Rain but ES is absolutely remarkable.
 
Speaking of the 'rivalry' between to the two, do you guys think that "Purple Rain" is just as epic in scale as "Earth Song"?

Nah.
TBH the only Prince album, song, or short film that even came close to being as big as ANYTHING MJ did was Purple Rain.
I honestly believe that Prince worked so hard on Purple Rain because he wanted the success that MJ found with Thriller, and while it turned out to be Prince's most successful venture it was NEVER going to be as big as Thriller, which is why some (not all) Prince fans are eternally salty at MJ.

To me it really says something for Michael when you're the benchmark for everyone including other legends (Prince for example).
Michael has surpassed simple legendary status because even among legends he's a legend.

Anyone know if anything comes after legendary status?
I'm just going to have to make up something LOL.
Maybe I'll just say MJ is a legend among legends. :yes:
 
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I personally don't think Purple Rain is Prince's best album. And I don't like the song Purple Rain so to me it is an easy choice between that and Earth Song. I much prefer Prince's work in the late 80s - Sign O The Times most particularly - than his early 80s stuff which happen to be his biggest selling albums (Purple Rain and 1999).
 
I personally don't think Purple Rain is Prince's best album. And I don't like the song Purple Rain so to me it is an easy choice between that and Earth Song. I much prefer Prince's work in the late 80s - Sign O The Times most particularly - than his early 80s stuff which happen to be his biggest selling albums (Purple Rain and 1999).

Mental to think that Sign O The Times and Bad came out in the same year. What a bloody year.
 
Speaking of the 'rivalry' between to the two, do you guys think that "Sign o' The Times" is social commentary that rivals the hard hitting "Be Not Always"?
 
I guess you mean commercially declined but I have to note that HIStory and the original songs on BOTDF are held in pretty high regard by MJ fans.

As for a potential duet. Prince did a duet with Madonna around the time (late 80s) on her Like A Prayer album but it's a pretty horrible song and duet IMO.


For some reason when two giants come together it doesn't always result in great things. So maybe it is better that MJ and Prince just realized their differences musically and left it at that.

TOTALLY! The music on History and BOTDF is incredible and easily as good as earlier albums, just commercially it was not #1 smashes and many of teh singles only Top 10ed or even Top 20ed. It was still hugely successful as it charted and History sold several million copies along with BOTDF, but it was not quite Bad and Thriller numbers. I would never say these albums were anything less than outstanding ever.
 
TOTALLY! The music on History and BOTDF is incredible and easily as good as earlier albums, just commercially it was not #1 smashes and many of teh singles only Top 10ed or even Top 20ed. It was still hugely successful as it charted and History sold several million copies along with BOTDF, but it was not quite Bad and Thriller numbers. I would never say these albums were anything less than outstanding ever.

Don't forget that History was Michael's first album after the allegations so of course that would have an adverse effect on the sales and overall popularity. And wasn't Blood On the dancefloor Michael biggest hit in the UK or in some other place in europe or was it Earth Song?

It's meaningless to measure anything against thriller since that album was an anomally. No one has made an album that has sold near as much as thriller.
 
It's meaningless to measure anything against thriller since that album was an anomally. No one has made an album that has sold near as much as thriller.

It takes a once in a lifetime artist to make a once in a lifetime album.
People and the media will laud current artists for selling half of MJ's worst selling album.


That's why I hate when people buy the lie that Michael was washed up after Thriller or Bad.
Michael was NEVER washed up.
 
I guess you mean commercially declined but I have to note that HIStory and the original songs on BOTDF are held in pretty high regard by MJ fans.

As for a potential duet. Prince did a duet with Madonna around the time (late 80s) on her Like A Prayer album but it's a pretty horrible song and duet IMO.


For some reason when two giants come together it doesn't always result in great things. So maybe it is better that MJ and Prince just realized their differences musically and left it at that.

Love Song is Madonna and Prince's, Just Good Friends. I.e. It is a duet between two greats that should have been so much better.

Don't forget that History was Michael's first album after the allegations so of course that would have an adverse effect on the sales and overall popularity. And wasn't Blood On the dancefloor Michael biggest hit in the UK or in some other place in europe or was it Earth Song?

It's meaningless to measure anything against thriller since that album was an anomally. No one has made an album that has sold near as much as thriller.

In UK Earth Song is MJs biggest selling single. Before that it was Heal The World. History is his only album to give him two #1 singles.

BOTDF was also a number one hit.
 
Love Song is Madonna and Prince's, Just Good Friends. I.e. It is a duet between two greats that should have been so much better.

Well, I think Just Good Friends is a masterpiece in comparation.
 
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